Carl Williams:
at times I think Cameron is more pro Europe that even the crack pot Ted Heath
That isn’t surprising because the Cons are basically an ideologically Unionist/Federalist Party.With an internal Nationalist contradiction and division specifically along Euro sceptic lines but which still ironically supports the Unionist agenda in the case of the UK Federation.
Saviem:
Evening all,Well when we went into the Union, I misguidedly thought that we would be able to take the reins and lead the mob!!!
After all, it was our legal people who laid down the framework and legislation for the Coal and steel federation.
It was us, who had drafted the infamous Human Rights Legislation.
That De Gaulle held us out for so long is a sad reflection on the total lack of commercial ability of our political class…be they left, right, or centre.
When we did go in, the country as a whole, and industry in particular was utterly unprepared for membership. Our own industry, in terms of equipment manufactured by domestic producers was totally out of step with mainland Europe, and the changes that would naturally take place. Limited, (as ever), by domestic legislation, that stipulated weight, length, and operational legislation that simply was totally out of step with mainland Europe.
Edward Heath`s statement, that industry would feel the cold wind of competition…is quite simply an illustration of how the Political class, (right, or left), is unaware of the consequence, or responsibility of their actions.
The country was never prepared for membership, and should therefore have stayed outside the Union, which even a blind man on a Donkey, could see was heading for a political union as opposed to a trading relationship!
But now here we are in 2015. Perhaps the economy that has made the strongest recovery in the west. Our strength is in Technology, Pharmacuiticals, Engineering design, and innovation…but not the old labour intensive heavy manufacture that I remember, and enjoyed. That is too costly …(and before dear Carryfast screams “ow about the jerries”…my pals new Mercedes is produced in Brazil!
We come out?..bit negative after being in for so long…and the iconic “brands”, that we think of as British, are now in the hands of Global owners…and easily portable to where the market lies! A fact so easily ignored by the politicians, and moronic media!
Farming…without the CAP UK farmers, Livestock, and Arable could lead the World. Feather bed payments, are not that. They are payments to compensate for having to produce to a stupid centralised economic plan. And just as the Soviet centralised economy collapsed, then the same will happen in the EU unless it is reformed. My own farm could have quadrupled production of food on the same cost base, …but we could not…we were not allowed so to do…Agriculture is an interesting case…believe me it a`int free gift time at all. But it is a stupid, burocratic, and messy system.
Renegotiate…well yes…if we can…the Germans would welcome change, they suffer as we do…France…the socialist basket case of Europe…Italy…was, is, and always will be corrupt…so not much hope there! As is Greece…write of the Mediteranean basin…the Ottomans did, and history tells us they were right…the East, well they have got their noses in a full food trough, so they will not want change…(ever wondered why the Eastern Bloc always have new lorries…study how their Governments handle the EU funds for infrastructure development…ultra cheap lease deals for kit you old boys could only dream about…
So try to re-negotiate …will not be easy…particularly as our economy is one of Europes stronger ones…
If it does not succeed…well we are right back to the days of dear Edward Heaths stupid statement…because we have no preparation for plan B…only an in out referendum…ok we come out…where is the preparation for the future…WELL…there is none.
Why have we not entered negotiations with the BRICK grouping of countries…or any other emerging economies…
We a`int got a plan B…and if we had a plan B…then our plan A to re- negotiate would be much stronger…
And if we are out my Bollinger will cost more…
Cheerio for now.
Wow!, that was a mouthful wasn’t it, thank god I’m not the only one who thinks like you.
SAVIEM FOR PRESIDENT!
But he’s FAR too sensible to be a politician, sadly.
Well said i 2nd that . he has brains and more important common sense everything the job should require . I’m guessing he has no silver spoon in his mouth so he would be overlooked …,.
Unfortunately if common sense is a basic requirement “Saviem” has absolutely no ■■■■■■■ chance ! When the “family” Kinnock can rise to the top of the “snouts in the trough” in the EU the whole enterprise is totally compromised Oh! and the accounts for the last umpteen years haven’t been signed off by the accountants,the whole ediface stinks so the sooner we’er out the better IMHO.Bewick.
Greetings from the Motability capital!
If I ever complained about how hard I had to work, my dad’s reply was ‘Son, the world does not owe you a living!’
His generation had been through the depression and his brother had broken rocks building the ‘coast road’ - a ‘make work’ solution to unemployment in the thirties.
Unfortunately, now a good proportion of the population does think the world owes them a living.
We aren’t making provision for leaving the EU because those in charge have no intention of letting us go. But even if by any slim chance we did, it couldn’t be a problem - we import more from the EU than we export. They would be in no position to raise trade barriers.
I can find no good reason to stay in.
I went on Honeymoon to Benidorm in 1974. Spain was a third world country by almost any standard. We, Germany and to a lesser extent France (they were always good at avoiding actually contributing) have dragged Spain into the first world.
Romania, amazingly, won’t agree to stop us letting their countrymen come over here to work. It’s my daughter’s generation who are going to work twice as hard as they should to drag Eastern Europe into the 21st century, so that people like Kinnock and Cameron can parade on the world stage at inflated salaries and unreceipted ‘expenses’.
Grumpy old man? Yes, I bloody well am!
John.
I agree with a lot of what you say John. But a lot of rich businessmen are reaping the benefits out of goods which were once manufactured in the UK, being manufactured abroad, in third world factories, with no health & safety regulations. No minimum wage, and no working time directive,which gives them a huge advantage over a British manufacturer. Our manufacturers can’t compete with Thailand or China when it comes to churning out goods, even though a lot of its crap.
I will let the Leatherhead mastermind describe why and where we went wrong.
Cheers Dave. ( Another old grumpy git 
)
Am I rite in thinking all these countries had grants for new trucks if so where was ours if I’m wrong I hold my hands up ■■? We give a lot for little return if none at all
What happened over that train contract Siemens got it over bombadier germans building our trains c’ mon■■?
karl2878:
Am I rite in thinking all these countries had grants for new trucks if so where was ours if I’m wrong I hold my hands up ■■? We give a lot for little return if none at all
‘Net’ contributor means by definition that we put in more than we take out.The most recent figure stands at around £10bn difference for 2013.
Morning all,
Nice bit of rain this morning, there is nothing more beautiful than the British countryside after a good dollop of H2o in the summer time,so many shades of green.
No silver spoon here…Wolverhampton once had a thriving “basic” cutlery business…as it did kitchen ware manufacturers…sadly now all gone…
Do you Gentlemen remember back in the 70s when Scania wanted to open a manufacturing facility in the North East? Our Civil Service clerks could not figure out if Scania could be given regional development funding to build the , (not insubstantial), investment in their strongest potential market…the Swedes got fed up…and the French gave funding assistance and Angers was born!
And there were no regrets in Government circles here…no questions in the house…
Then of course the dear old Belgium`s decimated our ceramic and carpet industry by “manipulating” regional funding…and the MPs for the areas so affected in the UK, were to a person afraid, (or unaware), to point the finger at the root cause…
Every cherry picker sold under a certain British brand name, (who also builds excellent trailers), is actually manufactured in sunny Rimmini…
And believe me there are many more examples where our country, and in particular our Civil Service simply are out of their depth in understanding and comprehending what tools are available within the EU financial tool box to promote UK manufacturing…but of course they are overseen by the Political Class…and from left to right what a totally self serving bunch they are.
Im off into the rain, …
Cheerio for now.
Oh Karl, over the trains…not a lot happened…
Then in the Midlands we had Metro Cammel…but our…(unreliable), trams came from Italy…
But I suppose that we should be grateful that the German State Railways run some of our buses…Arriva…
Must go and look at my Hay…in the rain…
And of course our Government would never countenance manipulation of EU funds to provide subsidised funding for commercial vehicles…our industry is not even on the radar of the political class…Nasty smelly Cyclist crushing machines…
Lets get rid of them, build another railway…hurray…even if its in the wrong place!!!.
Cheerio for now.
Saviem:
Do you Gentlemen remember back in the 70s when Scania wanted to open a manufacturing facility in the North East? Our Civil Service clerks could not figure out if Scania could be given regional development funding to build the , (not insubstantial), investment in their strongest potential market…the Swedes got fed up…and the French gave funding assistance and Angers was born!And there were no regrets in Government circles here…no questions in the house…
Then of course the dear old Belgium`s decimated our ceramic and carpet industry by “manipulating” regional funding…and the MPs for the areas so affected in the UK, were to a person afraid, (or unaware), to point the finger at the root cause…
Every cherry picker sold under a certain British brand name, (who also builds excellent trailers), is actually manufactured in sunny Rimmini…
And believe me there are many more examples where our country, and in particular our Civil Service simply are out of their depth in understanding and comprehending what tools are available within the EU financial tool box to promote UK manufacturing…but of course they are overseen by the Political Class…and from left to right what a totally self serving bunch they are.
Cheerio for now.
Firstly the idea of not wanting to use yet more scarce funds,to subsidise a major competitor,to our own already state funded ( and fighting for its survival ) at the time,automotive manufacturing industry,seems logical.
As for the rest it was arguably more a case of an intentional transfer of the economic initiative from the pre EEC UK to its new ‘partners’ as part of Heath’s plan to bring ‘peace’ and prosperity’ to Europe.That combined with the fact that the bankers were obviously all about taking advantage of that situation by investing whatever money was being earn’t here in the industrial development of those foreign ‘partners’.
IE with British PM’s like Heath,Callaghan and Thatcher and the British banker class we didn’t need British Civil Servants to zb up the economy by taking us ever further into the Federalist foreign aid scam which was/is the EU. 
Independance Day 
And Davids off 
All those threads saying the same thing and you have to revive yet another that was a year old! Well done!
Sorry about that.When I log on it just shows threads where I have posted. 
Lol! I always go into view new posts, keeps you bang up to date.
Well folks we have an out vote,so what now? Dirty Dave on his way,who do we vote for,Bojo the clown,Gove the groveller,Farage the drunk,Corbyn the coward,Farron the fool,not a lot going for us really or we may find another Trump,ha,ha.We now look forward to border controls for non eu member trucks with the old style queues and masses of paperwork etc and still have to comply with eu regs to wrk there,i bet the new east European countries hauliers will be the winners at our expense,so take deep breaths and wait and see what mess we are going to get into or not. 
