muckles:
I’ve never said that we have to comply with any rules if we leave the EU? it seems something you taken from Dolph posts, which seems strange as you dismiss most of his posts as BS, but obviously this one fitted with your preconceptions.
All I wanted to know is why you thought a trade war with Germany would be a good idea?
I was certainly replying to Dolph’s issues.Of which you then got involved,not to disagree with Dolph,but to have a go at my comments for some reason.
In which my point was ‘if’ the EU ( Germany ) wants ‘to start’ a trade war,by imposing sanctions on us for not toeing the EU line ‘if/when’ we leave as described by Dolph.Then we obviously reserve the right to ‘retaliate’.The argument then being why does the in campaign take the biased position that it’s ok for the EU to hit us but not for us to hit them in that case.
Although having said that any so called ‘free trade’ agreement that doesn’t allow for trade barriers to maintain trade balance isn’t worth the paper it’s written on anyway.On that note as I said we actually stand to benefit massively from such a trade war in either case anyway.
Hopefully that explains your question.Although you obviously haven’t explained why you think that sorting the EU out in that situation is supposedly a bad thing in your obviously biased pro EU view.
Now we resort to what is an insult in your view and because I have disagreed with you I am now labeled pro EU. I don’t think a trade war with Germany is a good idea whether we are in the EU or not, I would have the same opinion if you were talking about the US.
one of our Saying The Light at the End of the Tunnel could be an oncoming Train
Well.
UK must in future not pay more Child-Money to an in East-Eurape living Child then it would get in its Country.
Now,…
Poland goes ahead to rise it.
During a Brit would still get £77.- a Month a Polish may get £88.-
I wouldnt call that an good deal.
muckles:
Now we resort to what is an insult in your view and because I have disagreed with you I am now labeled pro EU. I don’t think a trade war with Germany is a good idea whether we are in the EU or not, I would have the same opinion if you were talking about the US.
I don’t think anyone who genuinely wants to leave the EU wouldn’t have the bottle to take on ze Germans if/when push comes to shove in the form of a trade war started by the EU.Because they want us to be ruled by them for the privilege of buying German goods.
So exactly what are you saying.Are you saying that we should just take the grovelling Swiss approach.Or do we tell the zb’s to zb off and stuff their rules and if they want a trade war they can have one ?. That’s assuming you’re even on the out campaign side of the argument anyway ?.
Immigrant:
one of our Saying The Light at the End of the Tunnel could be an oncoming Train
Well.
UK must in future not pay more Child-Money to an in East-Eurape living Child then it would get in its Country.
Now,…
Poland goes ahead to rise it.
During a Brit would still get £77.- a Month a Polish may get £88.-
I wouldnt call that an good deal.
All of which misses the point that the idea is to leave the EU and thereby throw the East Euro problem out with it.Therefore at worse your example is just Cameron’s in campaign logic in action.
Or at best it’s just the out campaign’s idea of 'avin a larf at Cameron’s expense.
CF you keep talking about trade war, and honestly I don’t understand why you keep calling it that. Its not gonna be war and its not gonna be only Germany. In order to trade with preferential tariffs with EU you will need trade agreement, you can not have it unless you follow EU principles, such as free movement of people. I hope I said it clearer this time. You keep saying Germany, forget Germany, the whole Eastern EU will unite against(as wee saw it) preferential agreement for UK, if there is nothing for its EU citizens. And this are obvious facts.
And if things escalate as you keep saying about trade war, UK haulage industry might grind to a hold by Brussels - imposing huge export tariffs on EU made lorries . And thats one of many examples. So don’t be so sure you can win a trade war with you trade surplus.
On another note: British service sector is 79% from the whole economy, big part of it is Banking and financial sector. Banking alone consist 15% of the GDP, the whole sector pay’s over 63bn pounds of taxes etc. All of this will be hurt by Brexit as HSBC had said. Again that’s not scaremongering but facts, EU will not let non member to be the center of its finance.
Dolph - youve got to start treating statistics with a tad less reverence. Since the dawn of mankind, numbers have been massaged,corrupted, and fed to the masses in order to conjure up the illusion required. Despite your frequent strident statements concerning global fiscal conditions, i have to conclude that your info gathering is rudimentary at best. Single source doesnt cut it.
Your visions of a desolate, ruined and isolated little island (GB) post-EE are ludicrous. If that ever could transpire (it couldn`t btw), maybe it would assist in the re-patriation of a few million surplus newcomers to our (my) shores.
You want “IN”, and if i were you, so would I. I am not you - i was born and raised here and can plainly see what the EE debacle has brought us to. I want “OUT”.
ps. I still have no problem with you mate, but do try to be less fatalistic about Britain`s political status without mother Brussels wiping our asses for us. We have a MUCH longer history of adapting to change than you seem able to comprehend.
■■■■■■■:
Dolph - youve got to start treating statistics with a tad less reverence. Since the dawn of mankind, numbers have been massaged,corrupted, and fed to the masses in order to conjure up the illusion required. Despite your frequent strident statements concerning global fiscal conditions, i have to conclude that your info gathering is rudimentary at best. Single source doesnt cut it.
Your visions of a desolate, ruined and isolated little island (GB) post-EE are ludicrous. If that ever could transpire (it couldn`t btw), maybe it would assist in the re-patriation of a few million surplus newcomers to our (my) shores.
You want “IN”, and if i were you, so would I. I am not you - i was born and raised here and can plainly see what the EE debacle has brought us to. I want “OUT”.
ps. I still have no problem with you mate, but do try to be less fatalistic about Britain`s political status without mother Brussels wiping our asses for us. We have a MUCH longer history of adapting to change than you seem able to comprehend.
Im glad you have no problem with me, as I do not have with you or anyone else except one bored member
I have said it many times, its your country, your choice, not mine or anyone else. You have to decide in, out, when, how, etc.
I simply want to discuss from both sides of the isle, not only post Brexit “pink” version of life. No politicians talk about the economy of EU or UK post Brexit, all agreements signed thru the years, peoples life’s and loved once, both in the UK and in the continent etc. etc.
Im not sure I want UK to be in if refuse the ever closer union, putting brakes on all major issues. More likely UK out. Yes times will be hard without UK contribution, but we still gonna survive as will you.
“EE debacle” was created by British and American Governments and policies. As I have mention before, UK Government insisted on having EE into EU, even though we were/are poor. May be that was Blair and Bush plan to ruin EU
Dolph:
CF you keep talking about trade war, and honestly I don’t understand why you keep calling it that. Its not gonna be war and its not gonna be only Germany. In order to trade with preferential tariffs with EU you will need trade agreement, you can not have it unless you follow EU principles, such as free movement of people. I hope I said it clearer this time. You keep saying Germany, forget Germany, the whole Eastern EU will unite against(as wee saw it) preferential agreement for UK, if there is nothing for its EU citizens. And this are obvious facts.
And if things escalate as you keep saying about trade war, UK haulage industry might grind to a hold by Brussels - imposing huge export tariffs on EU made lorries . And thats one of many examples. So don’t be so sure you can win a trade war with you trade surplus.
On another note: British service sector is 79% from the whole economy, big part of it is Banking and financial sector. Banking alone consist 15% of the GDP, the whole sector pay’s over 63bn pounds of taxes etc. All of this will be hurt by Brexit as HSBC had said. Again that’s not scaremongering but facts, EU will not let non member to be the center of its finance.
As I said you’re the one who’s making all the aggravation about starting a trade war.Therefore if you want to hit us,with what are effectively trade sanctions,for having the nerve to secede from the EU and all the bs rules which go with it,then bring it on.Bearing in mind your,especially Germany’s,position of trade surplus weakness and the fact that we reserve the right to retaliate in that situation.
Dolph:
“EE debacle” was created by British and American Governments and policies. As I have mention before, UK Government insisted on having EE into EU, even though we were/are poor. May be that was Blair and Bush plan to ruin EU
I’d partly agree on that bit.IE Churchill knew that he kicked off WW1 by instead of knocking the Germans and Frogs heads together in 1914 the zbwit decided to join in their private squabble.Then after surveying the inevitable results of all that,at the end of WW2,he put 1 + 1 together and came up with 3 in the form of the start of the EU Federation which tramples all over the idea of the nation state which we actually need to defend.IE threw the baby out with the bathwater.With Heath then putting 2 + 2 together and coming up with 5 by dragging us into the resulting mess.
As for Bush yes another zbwit in the form of a so called ‘Texan’ who believes in the idea of the Federal government system. While at least Blair had an excuse in that regard in being a Socialist/Thatcherite.
he was a cabinet member in WW1 and in no position to negotiate beyond his collective cabinet responsibility as first sea lord .
after second world war he did indeed propose the Council of Europe . which should become one of the three main instruments for good in the world : United States of America , United States of Europe AND the Commonwealth !!
its no great surprise he wanted Britain to lead the Commonwealth , and not be involved with the squabbling bums of Europe .
And he most certainly DID NOT expect Europe to include the Soviet Blox !!
with the benefit of hindsight we may conclude that Churchill was more right than wrong , especially considering that alliance with the socially and economically backward ex soviets has brought the European Alliance to its knees , and will over next 20 years finish it off .
and was it Churchill that said :" when on a sinking ship , jump off and start swimming "■■
Christ, let’s move the conversation away from Churchill, to things as they are now
If the thread keeps getting derailed onto long winded Carryfast posts, people will stop reading it.
I wonder what will now happen given that Boris is on side?
I should imagine Cameron was furious when he found out. It does seem strange given how unpopular the EU is amongst voters, that Cameron backs the wrong team
he was a cabinet member in WW1 and in no position to negotiate beyond his collective cabinet responsibility as first sea lord .
after second world war he did indeed propose the Council of Europe . which should become one of the three main instruments for good in the world : United States of America , United States of Europe AND the Commonwealth !!
Yes as I said he was in a very powerful government defence policy position in 1914 and his ‘advice’ to the government of the day from that position was for us to join France in going to war with Germany not stay neutral.
As for ‘the Council of Europe’ it was obvious that a USE would eventually also involve us.All based on typically Churchill zbwit thinking that the way to stop Federalism trampling all over Europe,which was actually the problem from Napoleon to the Austrian Empire and later Hitler,was to create a European Federation ( USE ).Rather than strengthen the idea of the Nation State along the lines of friends with fences.
As for the USA yes a force for good in many respects but it’s Federalist ideology which killed a large part of its own population not being one of them.
IE Churchill is guilty as charged of being just another moronic Con who thought the way to fight the evils of Federalism was with more Federalism. Let alone entering a pointless war against Germany to help France,in an opportunist attempt to get payback for the previous Franco Prussian war.While Germany’s attention was diverted to defending itself against Russia all over the issue of Serb Nationalism.Which would have eventually sorted itself out just as the Brit v Irish issue did with no need for a World War over it.
Dolph:
Talking about Churchill and the World wars lets not forget the Western betrayal against Czech and Polish nations.
BS.We were actually faced with the choice of WW3 with Russia which we would have lost or cut them loose.Just as we had to cut loose Istria in Italy.Which no surprise your lot seem to be happy enough to selectively over look.
Dolph:
Talking about Churchill and the World wars lets not forget the Western betrayal against Czech and Polish nations.
BS.We were actually faced with the choice of WW3 with Russia which we would have lost or cut them loose.Just as we had to cut loose Istria in Italy.Which no surprise your lot seem to be happy enough to selectively over look.
BS or not in the history books stays Western betrayal.
The point I was making is: some of you complain how EE countries are backward in some way, well they were/are because western powers gave them to Stalin in Yalta.
Immigrant:
one of our Saying The Light at the End of the Tunnel could be an oncoming Train
Well.
UK must in future not pay more Child-Money to an in East-Eurape living Child then it would get in its Country.
Now,…
Poland goes ahead to rise it.
During a Brit would still get £77.- a Month a Polish may get £88.-
I wouldnt call that an good deal.
All of which misses the point that the idea is to leave the EU and thereby throw the East Euro problem out with it.Therefore at worse your example is just Cameron’s in campaign logic in action.
Or at best it’s just the out campaign’s idea of 'avin a larf at Cameron’s expense.
That’s assuming you’re even on the out campaign side of the argument anyway ?.
