English work

orys:
We agree in most of that things. Difference between colonialism and common market is that Indians in America had no chance to get the cowboy’s jobs, while British can do all jobs done by Poles, but they simply wanted more money for it.

But be fair orys. British workers didn’t get better pay and conditions than polish workers by a divine gift of God. They got it because they spent two hundred years fighting and dying for every last single right they managed to wrestle from the employers. Is it really fair that millions of polish people who havn’t fought for any rights can now come over and take advantage of 200 years of industrial action?

I think being born in the country does grant you certain rights above and beyond a foreigner. I’m happy that iraqis for example get all the money from Iraqi oil - because it’s their country. Similarly british workers should get the advantage of decent pay and working conditions that their forefathers fought for.

Why don’t Polish workers fight for decent pay in their own country?

JeffA:
But be fair orys. British workers didn’t get better pay and conditions than polish workers by a divine gift of God. They got it because they spent two hundred years fighting and dying for every last single right they managed to wrestle from the employers.

Oh, no, history again :unamused:
So:
Also they were able to gain this, becouse Britain was a rich country. And why Britain was a rich country? Becouse it was benefiting from it’s colonies etc.

Is it really fair that millions of polish people who havn’t fought for any rights can now come over and take advantage of 200 years of industrial action?

If the British Politicians, who were elected by voices of British Workers invited them to come and take advantage, I can’t see nothing wrong with it. Again: it wasn’t colonialism, we don’t came here with a sword and fire and forced you to give us your rights. It was you who invited us. You gave us also ALMOST the same rights you have. Thanks for that, it was really nice of you.

I think being born in the country does grant you certain rights above and beyond a foreigner.

Off course. You have many certain rights here, you can vote, you can claim benefits whenever you want (don’t need to wait two years until you will be able to ask for some of them), you can travel to some countries without visas, you don’t need to register with Workers Registration Scheme - there is plenty of them. We are still “second category citizens” and I am fully OK with that. Edited: we are not citizens, we are only residents

I’m happy that iraqis for example get all the money from Iraqi oil - because it’s their country.

Do you really believe, that Iraqis are taking all money for their oil? :slight_smile:

Similarly british workers should get the advantage of decent pay and working conditions that their forefathers fought for.

You have decent pay and working conditions. Polish workers working here at exactly the same rules you are. It’s illegal for us as well to work under minimum wage etc.

Times are hard and you would have a propblems even without any foreigners in your country due to financial crisis. Who would you blame for then?

Why don’t Polish workers fight for decent pay in their own country?

History again :unamused:

They fought, I dare to tell that even harder then british if you check how many members of trade unions was shoot in Poland and UK in last, say, 60 years.

Problem was that we had to start from much harder position as the Three Big Countries decided that they prefere their own people’s peace of mind than to fulfill promises given to Poles who were supporting them during the war. And there was three main players: Stalin, who is out of question as a mass criminal, US president, who have no interest in Poles, as they weren’t helping US for obvious reasons, and Churchill, who owed a lot to Polish army and inteligence and was also bounded by agreement about mutual protection. We fullfiled our part, many of Polish soldiers died for Britain. And they we were left to Stalin after war. Somehow they managed to keep Greece under Western influence, and what Greece did for UK during the war?

So, simply, we had to start from much harder position, as we had to rid off the comunism first. Than we started economical reforms in 1989 and yet 20 years later workers in Poland have the same level of rights like British workers have (as we are members of the same EC with the same European law). Only problem is Economy, for obvious result we can’t develom the same economical level and catch up the West after 60 years of Soviet exploitation of our country.

Off course European Union is based on Economy, not on history and reasons why there is a common market of workers is stricly economical not based on historical issues. But you asked why we are where we are, so I answered to you.

Btw: Nowadays you can see how good is to be part of bigger economical system: you can see that on example of Britain (who was very hard hitted by credit crunch due to it’s own currency and economical ties with America. Countries who are in Euro zone are having hard times as well, but they are dealing with that more smoothly, as Euro is stronger that a pound. On the other hand you have Poland with it’s zÅ‚oty, which is a target for speculation which recently bringed Iceland to bankruptcy (luckily we are not so small country and our economy is quite well, yet ZÅ‚oty is now weak like over two years ago).

JeffA:
Why don’t Polish workers fight for decent pay in their own country?

Do you remember a guy named Lech Walesa?

Wheel Nut:

JeffA:
Why don’t Polish workers fight for decent pay in their own country?

Do you remember a guy named Lech Walesa?

Because they have a habit of getting duffed up :open_mouth: Who said Britain was great ( my zb se)

Driving on the “wrong side” of the road apparently originates form an idea of Napoleon Bonaparte who whilst on one of his winning streaks decided it was a good idea to march his armies on the right hand side of the road to keep them in the shade of the trees (presumably when he was moving Eastwards). What he obviously didnt factor in to the equation was that this didnt work in the other direction. With motorisation this then became the norm for Europeans but as Napoleon eventually lost maybe this is why we feel that Europeans drive on the wrong side of the road. :laughing: :laughing: :laughing: :laughing:

its totally off course here now who cares what side the wheel is, the point is a friend of mine on IRF been there since the start 15 years plus has no work tomorrow 32 jobs short but there are 34 silver units with PL plates and only 4x2 all got jobs whats this all about. i wonder how many of them are overweight on the pin, if them JAM ROLES wernt here there would be 2 jobs spare,

V8 Passion:
its totally of course here now who cares what side the wheel is, the point is a friend of mine on IRF been there since the start 15 years plus has no work tomorrow 32 jobs short but there are 34 silver units with PL plates and only 4x2 all got jobs whats this all about. i wonder how many of them are over on the pin, if them JAM ROLES wernt here there would be 2 jobs spare,

They won’t be.

The trick is that the rules from the country of registration apply. So if your lorry is on Polish plate, you can take more weght on two axles tractor, as it’s legal in Poland. VOSA can’t tell them a world as long as they are not overweight according to Polish rules.

It’s exactly the same like that car with driving wheel on the right can’t be registered in Poland, as it won’t pass MOT, but I can drive my British car there, as long as I have British MOT to it and they can’t tell me a world as long as I have GB sticker and corrected headlights.

orys:
If the British Politicians, who were elected by voices of British Workers invited them to come and take advantage, I can’t see nothing wrong with it. Again: it wasn’t colonialism, we don’t came here with a sword and fire and forced you to give us your rights. It was you who invited us. You gave us also ALMOST the same rights you have. Thanks for that, it was really nice of you.

Actually the European Union invited them in, and apart from the European Parliament which doesn’t do much we never voted for any of them.

tofer:
Actually the European Union invited them in, and apart from the European Parliament which doesn’t do much we never voted for any of them.

According to access deal between Poland and EU, EU countries should allow Poles to work NO LATER than in 2011. And it was YOUR Politicians, who decided that you will do that from the very first day.

orys:
The trick is that the rules from the country of registration apply. So if your lorry is on Polish plate, you can take more weght on two axles tractor, as it’s legal in Poland. VOSA can’t tell them a world as long as they are not overweight according to Polish rules.

It’s exactly the same like that car with driving wheel on the right can’t be registered in Poland, as it won’t pass MOT, but I can drive my British car there, as long as I have British MOT to it and they can’t tell me a world as long as I have GB sticker and corrected headlights.

Er, don’t think so, orys. If any truck on foreign plates is overloaded on any axle according to British limits whilst on British soil, then they are nicked.

As for the car thing, are you sure about not being able to register a right ■■■■■■ in Poland? I brought my English car over to Germany and had it re-registered here without a problem.

If the British Politicians, who were elected by voices of British Workers invited them to come and take advantage, I can’t see nothing wrong with it. Again: it wasn’t colonialism, we don’t came here with a sword and fire and forced you to give us your rights. It was you who invited us. You gave us also ALMOST the same rights you have. Thanks for that, it was really nice of you.

They were elected with a measly 37% of the vote,hardly a ringing endorsement.

orys:

V8 Passion:
its totally of course here now who cares what side the wheel is, the point is a friend of mine on IRF been there since the start 15 years plus has no work tomorrow 32 jobs short but there are 34 silver units with PL plates and only 4x2 all got jobs whats this all about. i wonder how many of them are over on the pin, if them JAM ROLES wernt here there would be 2 jobs spare,

They won’t be.

The trick is that the rules from the country of registration apply. So if your lorry is on Polish plate, you can take more weght on two axles tractor, as it’s legal in Poland. VOSA can’t tell them a world as long as they are not overweight according to Polish rules.

It’s exactly the same like that car with driving wheel on the right can’t be registered in Poland, as it won’t pass MOT, but I can drive my British car there, as long as I have British MOT to it and they can’t tell me a world as long as I have GB sticker and corrected headlights.

Orys
Either I am missing the point here or you are totally of the wall with this one… Those trucks referred to are being used in the U.K and as such have to obey U.K weight rules which are 40t on 5 axles, I know the trucks being referred to and also am very familiar with the work they are doing. The country of origin has no bearing on anything as even if the point was being stretched to say these trucks were on an international journey then the European standard of 40t would also apply.

I am not surprised that hauliers who have worked for such as IRF are getting a tad annoyed at this situation I would be Kicking **** out of the local VOSA`s office door to get something done if I was getting pushed aside for any haulier who was running bent in this way British or Foreign. :imp: :imp: :imp:

So by your logic Orys we could take our maximum UK height trailers over the water where there is a lower height limit and it magically becomes legal?

Inselaffe:
Er, don’t think so, orys. If any truck on foreign plates is overloaded on any axle according to British limits whilst on British soil, then they are nicked.

It may be that I confused something. It was a story long time ago in Poland as after 1990 traffic of Western European lorries increased rapidly and then Polish limit 9t per axle was too small for them. As they had to allow heavy lorries to cross our country they simply increased the axle weight limit to allow Polish companies to compete.

It was something that if these lorries were legal in Germany, they had to let them go through Poland. But it was long time ago, so it’s possible that I confused something, especially that I am sure that it’s working other way round: if you go to Poland with your two axle tractor you will be able to carry less than identical Polish lorry, as it will be illegal for you to put more than it’s allowed on your vosa plate.

So propably you’re right and I mixed things up. Sorry :blush:

As for the car thing, are you sure about not being able to register a right ■■■■■■ in Poland? I brought my English car over to Germany and had it re-registered here without a problem.

Yes, Poland is famous for making problems of simply things :wink: But it’s becouse of lack of motorways and heavy traffic: overtaking with right ■■■■■■ in Poland may be quite tricky. But you can register vehicles first registered before 1984 as a vintage cars or you can register three wheelers (propably becouse you won’t overtake too much with Reliant Robin or 25 yo car :slight_smile: )

gsm31:
They were elected with a measly 37% of the vote,hardly a ringing endorsement.

Don’t blame Poles for defects of your democracy :wink:

orys,

You have decent pay

You think?

Oh my god, this is in all probability the dullest thread going. What a slog trying to read all this pointless drivel. Hasn’t this topic been flogged to death yet? I hope that I never meet orys, for fear of being bored to death.

I’ll just get my coat.

orys:
Oh, no, history again :unamused:
So:
Also they were able to gain this, becouse Britain was a rich country. And why Britain was a rich country? Becouse it was benefiting from it’s colonies etc.

Different subject orys - the average british worker slaving in a factory 200 years ago wasn’t getting any benefits from colonialism. The rich got the benefits from colonialism - the workers were down the pit at 7 years old with no rights and very little pay. The early days of the industrial revolution were no picnic. Workers were treated with absolute brutality and contempt.

If the British Politicians, who were elected by voices of British Workers invited them to come and take advantage, I can’t see nothing wrong with it. Again: it wasn’t colonialism, we don’t came here with a sword and fire and forced you to give us your rights. It was you who invited us. You gave us also ALMOST the same rights you have. Thanks for that, it was really nice of you.

But you did have the choice of what you did when you came. Why didn’t you have some solidarity with the british workers who invited you over and offer to form unions and improve conditions for everyone? Why make conditions worse for everyone? If you keep working for lousy pay and conditions and undercutting native workers the UK will be in the same state as Poland in a hundred years time.

Off course. You have many certain rights here, you can vote, you can claim benefits whenever you want (don’t need to wait two years until you will be able to ask for some of them), you can travel to some countries without visas, you don’t need to register with Workers Registration Scheme - there is plenty of them. We are still “second category citizens” and I am fully OK with that. Edited: we are not citizens, we are only residents
[/quote]
Not all that impressive a list of rights is it. And remember the benefits the Polish are able to claim after 2 years are incredibly generous compared to benefits they would receive in Poland - the UK is even paying child benefit at the UK RATE to children living in Poland. How fair is that?
> You have decent pay and working conditions. Polish workers working here at exactly the same rules you are. It’s illegal for us as well to work under minimum wage etc.
True, but we only have decent pay and conditions because british workers stood together and fought for them. If the polish had been coming here for the last 200 years we would be in exactly the same state as workers in poland getting lousy pay and lousy conditions. You only improve pay and working conditions by sticking together.
> Times are hard and you would have a problems even without any foreigners in your country due to financial crisis. Who would you blame for then?
I’m sure I would find someone :smiley:
> History again :unamused:
>
> They fought, I dare to tell that even harder then british if you check how many members of trade unions was shoot in Poland and UK in last, say, 60 years.
But if they knew so much about unions and sticking together why did they come over and screw the english worker? Why not stand together and form unions with them and improve conditions for everyone?
> So, simply, we had to start from much harder position, as we had to rid off the comunism first. Than we started economical reforms in 1989 and yet 20 years later workers in Poland have the same level of rights like British workers have (as we are members of the same EC with the same European law). Only problem is Economy, for obvious result we can’t develom the same economical level and catch up the West after 60 years of Soviet exploitation of our country.
[/quote]
[/quote]
I’m not sure whether you had it harder than british workers orys. You had it hard but there wasn’t much harder than being a british worker 200 years ago in the first wave of the industrial revolution. We were little better than slaves with no rights whatsoever with the rich factory owners and the police ferociously against us. Nothing came easy. Everything we got we fought and died for. We did it by sticking together - sure we could have played it like the poles did and simply said “Screw everyone else, I’ll work for nothing an hour and put them out of job”. I’m sure a lot of english workers did - but luckily for us enough of us had the courage to stand and fight.

Wheel Nut:

JeffA:
Why don’t Polish workers fight for decent pay in their own country?

Do you remember a guy named Lech Walesa?

The CIA backed stooge? He certainly didn’t do a ■■■■ thing for either union power or workers rights when he got to power. He was about as friendly to the unions as Margaret Thatcher.

JeffA:

Wheel Nut:

JeffA:
Why don’t Polish workers fight for decent pay in their own country?

Do you remember a guy named Lech Walesa?

The CIA backed stooge? He certainly didn’t do a ■■■■ thing for either union power or workers rights when he got to power. He was about as friendly to the unions as Margaret Thatcher.

Jaffa, have you read any recent history about the communist regime in the Eastern bloc

I’ve read quite a bit. There’s the official story and the unofficial story isn’t there. When Lech Walesa came to power in Poland he did nothing for the unions or the workers. That gives you some idea of his genuine motives.