orys:
‘…British Politicians…invited us. You gave us also ALMOST the same rights you have. Thanks for that, it was really nice of you…’
Don’t take it too seriously: When the host is asleep in his bedclothes it is often time to go home, eh…
JeffA:
Different subject orys - the average british worker slaving in a factory 200 years ago wasn’t getting any benefits from colonialism. The rich got the benefits from colonialism - the workers were down the pit at 7 years old with no rights and very little pay. The early days of the industrial revolution were no picnic. Workers were treated with absolute brutality and contempt.
Yes, but this benefits were circulating in British economy and they are here till today.
But you did have the choice of what you did when you came. Why didn’t you have some solidarity with the british workers who invited you over and offer to form unions and improve conditions for everyone? Why make conditions worse for everyone? If you keep working for lousy pay and conditions and undercutting native workers the UK will be in the same state as Poland in a hundred years time.
I can speak for myself - that’s to make things clear.
But: I totally agree with you. I am not an union member (which I now regret after my adventures with McLellan’s Transport) but it was simply becouse I had no idea how it works in UK and if I can be with any help for them. BUT I never agreed to work for less than my British peer, as I think that if they want to employ me, I just have to be better then them, not cheaper. I think that these guys who are coming here and are working for some silly money are just plain stupid, if they can work for normal rates. Also, I am never compromising the law or safety and I can tell you that I heard several times “British drivers have no problem to drive this” when I refused to drive vehicle in dangerous condition.
BUT: Now we are having a crisis situation. I think we all should agree to work for less, as this is just what’s going on here. But still: not for minimum wage from tommorow and workers should show some solidarity instead of starting war on dumping prices. I am completely with you on that one.
Not all that impressive a list of rights is it. And remember the benefits the Polish are able to claim after 2 years are incredibly generous compared to benefits they would receive in Poland - the UK is even paying child benefit at the UK RATE to children living in Poland. How fair is that?
It’s completely fair, becouse benefits are based of what they are earning and paying in taxes. They are earning here, so they are entitled to benefits from here. You can send your wife and kid to Poland if you think that it’s good idea. OK, they got more in Polish money, but if their kids are back in Poland they have to fly very often to see them, and that cost much more than this difference.
True, but we only have decent pay and conditions because british workers stood together and fought for them. If the polish had been coming here for the last 200 years we would be in exactly the same state as workers in poland getting lousy pay and lousy conditions. You only improve pay and working conditions by sticking together.
True, and that’s why (again) i think that these ones who are coming here and working for pennies are stupid. What’s the point to work for minimum wage if you can earn 8? They are only spoiling the work market. And the same apply to these Scots I know who agree to work for 5.73.
I’m sure I would find someone
Oh, no doubt about it. Who’s next in the row after us? Ethiopians? 
But if they knew so much about unions and sticking together why did they come over and screw the english worker? Why not stand together and form unions with them and improve conditions for everyone?
They don’t came here to screw english worker. They came here to earn money. And they arfe stupid, becouse they agreed to work for less while they could work for more.
I’m not sure whether you had it harder than british workers orys. You had it hard but there wasn’t much harder than being a british worker 200 years ago in the first wave of the industrial revolution. We were little better than slaves with no rights whatsoever with the rich factory owners and the police ferociously against us. Nothing came easy. Everything we got we fought and died for. We did it by sticking together - sure we could have played it like the poles did and simply said “Screw everyone else, I’ll work for nothing an hour and put them out of job”. I’m sure a lot of english workers did - but luckily for us enough of us had the courage to stand and fight.
Oh, I know we got the same, only a bit later, and remember that it was in the same time when we had to fight the occupants, as Poland was splitted between Russia, Germany and Austro-Hungarian Empires. And I was reading books and I know that there were SOME people even in England, who were doing just that: blackleg you call them, isn’t it?
JeffA:
The CIA backed stooge? He certainly didn’t do a ■■■■ thing for either union power or workers rights when he got to power. He was about as friendly to the unions as Margaret Thatcher.
Yeah, and as friendly to Poland as Nikita Kruschcev. Come on… 
JeffA:
I’ve read quite a bit. There’s the official story and the unofficial story isn’t there. When Lech Walesa came to power in Poland he did nothing for the unions or the workers. That gives you some idea of his genuine motives.
It seems that you were reading a wrong bit 
But it’s new for me that he was backed by CIA, in Poland his enemies claim that he was a communist’s agent 
But IMHO he’s case is pretty simple: he did a lot as a people’s leader and he was a good face for changes, but it was an intelligence (Komitet Obrony Robotników, the Worker’s Defence Comitee etc) who did the job behind the scenes.
When Poland went free, he was so popular that he was elected a president and he wasn’t too good in that if you know what I mean.
Yes, he’s got really good political sense and he played really smart, but he was too rowdy for the position. Yet, he was much better than this moron we have at the moment, even if KaczyÅ„ski is a profesor, not a electrician.
I think I owe you some explanation on Poles attitude to Unions:
Unions did a good job in fighting a communism, but now they are went too far. They are some people who just earning they living by being an union leaders and messing arround and they are seen as a troublemakers. They are playing people only to gain something in politics, and also they refusing every changes in companies. Some companies, like state railway, can’t go bankrupt, but it’s condition is appaling - like PKP. But in other cases they just cutting off the branch they are sitting on. Many companies were simply ruined by them. Therefore: people don’t think that unions are too help, as they no longer looking at worker’s right, but at they own policital businesses, and people, especially young, like me, think that they will be better off without union membership, which is in most cases true.
Therefore Unions are alive only in big, state-owned or ex-state owned companies and industries like Railways, Minning, teacher’s etc. And worker’s of this industries have too much benefits and it costs us all too much.
I wish we had some kind of Margaret Tatcher, not to go as far, but I mean someone who dare to clean all that union mess and put the things straitght.
Only one example: Coal mines are closed, as they are economically bad. Then someone buys an coal mine and opens it as a private company. There are no Unions, people don’t have usual miners benefits, but they work in decent condition and earn even better money that in state owned coal mines. And yet the company is profitable.
So that’s about unions in Poland AT PRESENT.
Ive kept my eye on this post, i think we all have to agree to disagree, orys i think a lot of your comments are not very well thought out, let alone your spelling. The fact of the matter is the British government should never of joined the eu, fact. But the likes of the johnny foriegner coming over and ■■■■■■ out country is just wrong, of which you admitted by saying its just a market.
Well i think your wrong, this is out native land that we love.
Do you ever think how you would feel if we came over to your country by the thousands, and undercut your tradesmens prices, or gain training paid for by the british tax payer!!
We could go on and on, there should of been clauses put in that you can only come over if you have sufficient monies to support yourself and fund and training.
Would all these people that have come over to our country be prepared to fight for this country instead of take take take and then bugger off, i doubt it. This government cocked up and the thousands of men that come over just took advantage, FACT!!!
johnny boy 1:
…
Sorry for my spelling and grammar mistakes: I had never learned English, so my lack of grammar knowledge may cause some misunderstandings.
As for traditional question “what if we come to your country and blah blah blah”.
So: Believe or not, I would have nothing against. That’s mean that work market will be more competetive at the begining, but after some time money paid into system by British workers would benefit and there will be even more workplaces.
You would see that in couple of years if not this bloody credit crunch. But, again: it’s not Poles to blame for economical situation here. Their presence is not helping NOW, that’s true, and some of them are undertaking you by offering crap wages to employers, as they have harder to survive, that’s also true. But overall it’s credit crunch to blame, not Eastern Europeans.
No one was really moaning about Poles 2 years ago, when good driver had no problem to find proper job, don’t you think so?
Dont take any notice Orys , some of the posters here can’t spell or write in English , let alone talk and write in Polish.
It might be petty, but picking faults with someones spelling and grammer when they are not speaking their mother toungue is also petty.
To make spelling and gramatical mistakes in your reply to a post by Orys, in your own language is unfortunate.
johnny boy 1:
Ive kept my eye on this post, i think we all have to agree to disagree, orys i think a lot of your comments are not very well thought out, let alone your spelling. The fact of the matter is the British government should never of joined the eu, fact. But the likes of the johnny foriegner coming over and ■■■■■■ out x(our) country is just wrong, of which you admitted by saying its just a market.
Well i think your x(you’re) wrong, this is out x(our) native land that we love.
Do you ever think how you would feel if we came over to your country by the thousands, and undercut your tradesmens prices, or gain training paid for by the british tax payer!!(surely if you went over there it would be the polish tax payer)
We could go on and on, there should of been clauses put in that you can only come over if you have sufficient monies to support yourself and fund and training.
Would all these people that have come over to our country be prepared to fight for this country instead of take x(,) take x(,) take and then bugger off, i doubt it. This government cocked up and the thousands of men that come over just took advantage, FACT!!!
orys doesnt have english as his first language, what’s your excuse?
orys, i think your bordering in being delusional now. I lost my construction company in 2005 as a direct result of Polish builders undercutting every job i quoted for. I have never tried to blame the foriegners that came over, just stating facts from the real world. We now have racial attacks in my area where the british men are fed up with it, the are fighting back but in the wrong way.
Its the governments fault, pure and simple and johnny forieigner just took advantage. This post could run for ever, there rights and wrongs from all ways but where does it all stop, god knows.
im so fed up with hearing doom and gloom, want to look forward, but to what. I just fail to see when it will all end. Im ashamed to admit it but im being drawn towards the bnp, there values seem to be spot on.
biggusdickusgb:
johnny boy 1:
Ive kept my eye on this post, i think we all have to agree to disagree, orys i think a lot of your comments are not very well thought out, let alone your spelling. The fact of the matter is the British government should never of joined the eu, fact. But the likes of the johnny foriegner coming over and ■■■■■■ out x(our) country is just wrong, of which you admitted by saying its just a market.
Well i think your x(you’re) wrong, this is out x(our) native land that we love.
Do you ever think how you would feel if we came over to your country by the thousands, and undercut your tradesmens prices, or gain training paid for by the british tax payer!!(surely if you went over there it would be the polish tax payer)
We could go on and on, there should of been clauses put in that you can only come over if you have sufficient monies to support yourself and fund and training.
Would all these people that have come over to our country be prepared to fight for this country instead of take x(,) take x(,) take and then bugger off, i doubt it. This government cocked up and the thousands of men that come over just took advantage, FACT!!!orys doesnt have english as his first language, what’s your excuse?
You missed a couple Steve. Jammy Mutt will be up in arms about the “of” too.
Thanks fella’s for the English lesson. You both missed the capital letter’s in Orys name. i guess we are not all perfect then
johnny boy 1:
Thanks fella’s for the English lesson. You both missed the capital letter’s in Orys name.
Becouse I am using it with small letters only
If you look at it the right way the immigrant workers are paying tax on their undercut wages, which then is used to pay dole to the native workers driven out of employment by the immigrant workers. One thing I never understood is how we had all these surplus jobs for the immigrant workers with over a million of our own people unemployed. I’m not talking about now in the recession but in the good times previously. And our Eastern friends are not the first people to come to Britain to work, many other people from all around the world have come to work in Britain. If we rounded up all the immigrants and sent them packing you would be able to watch the NHS fall to pieces overnight for a kick off. Additionally don’t forget it is not a one-way street, we all have the same right to go and work anywhere in the EU as the Poles, or anyone else for that matter has to come and work here. I’d sooner chuck all the bogus asylum seekers out rather than a guy who just wants to come in and graft. As for the working for less that game has been played for years and in hard times it only encourages the bosses to try and push wages down. Personally I’d sooner have a job at slightly less wages than no job at all. The reverse should also apply though and wages should increase when business levels increase.
johnny boy 1:
orys, i think your bordering in being delusional now. I lost my construction company in 2005 as a direct result of Polish builders undercutting every job i quoted for.
Were they offering dumping prices? Or they were just able to do it faster, better and cheaper than you? If first, I am fully with you, you should report them to whenever it should be reported and they should be punished for playing unfair.
If that’s second case - bad for you, good for the customers.
We now have racial attacks in my area where the british men are fed up with it, the are fighting back but in the wrong way.
I am sure it’s road to nowhere… It happened, Poles are here, we just have to coexist now.
im so fed up with hearing doom and gloom, want to look forward, but to what. I just fail to see when it will all end. Im ashamed to admit it but im being drawn towards the bnp, there values seem to be spot on.
I am not so pesimistic. I hope that when the economy will be back on track there will be enaugh place for everyone to make a business everywhere arround Europe.
tofer:
One thing I never understood is how we had all these surplus jobs for the immigrant workers with over a million of our own people unemployed.
I think it won’t be exagerating but problem with most of that part of society is that they:
- Don’t want to work in some stupid jobs or for small wages:
“I won’t be a cleaner, I am created to higher tasks”
“I won’t rise my bum from bed to work for 5.73”
Unfortunately someone has to be a cleaner or work in low paid jobs, that’s why there was always plenty of such vacancies (I am browsing Jobcentre website quite often, now there is so many people unemployed but there are still adverts for cleaners etc. And some of them are on-line for weeks…)
- Don’t want to improve their skills.
I was always amazed how many people here quits school at 16 and just go working when you have so wonderful educational opportunnities. You can go to college or university, study for free and get couple of hundreds quid for that in bursaries… But many really smart people I met says “What’s the point to improve my qualifications if I can get a simply job, do mine part and go home and that’s enaugh to live on decent level?”
Therefore there was shortage of skilled profesionals like IT specialists, engineers, doctors etc. S
- Some people are to narrow-skilled. It’s a common story that Poles have some problems in house and they call British company and are amazed that they send separate guy to do each part of the job: one will demolish the wall, another one will fix the plumbing, another one will rebuild the wall and another one will put ceramic tiles on - in Poland all that jobs would be done by one guy. But when this guy will lose his job he will be able to become tiler, demolisher, plumber etc. British narrow specialised guy can be only a plumber for example. So he’ll be looking for some plumbing job and that can take him longer that just to find any job.
In meantime British employer is seeking for someone who can do everything. Instead of hiring four British guys for 10 hours per week each, he can hire one Polish (or, off course British) multiskilled guy for full time.
- Some people don’t want to change their livestyle. I met a guy once, it wasn’t in England but it’s a good example of this way of thinking. Chap was working on the railways, but his railway line was closed nearly 20 years ago and he is unemployed since. “There aren’t any railway jobs in the area any more” he told me. He don’t want to learn new skills, he don’t want to move and he won’t do any job under his skills…
5.Some people would work part time, but they can stay at home, claim jobseekers allowance and get similar money without rising their bum from the coach. Therefore they are staying unemployed for years…
That’s off course only my observations and I am not claiming that it’s a decent description of British problems. But maybe some of you will find some use from this outsider’s observations.
Ohh here we go again with the holier than thou preachings
Why are there so many foreign drivers employed in the UK? Ohh thats right it was because of the wages wasn’t it, you know the one where an English Driver wouldn’t get out of bed for less than £10 ph (Plenty posts on this site over the years) but johnny foreigner was more than happy to work for the £6 ph offered (Rather similar to what my last hourly rate was at Fowler Welch if I recall)
But now that these employers paying the big bucks are closing / laying off, British drivers are now complaining that the lower paid drivers are still working !!! Get a Life FFS 
You either want work or you dont, but its bloody pointless crying because the ones on lower wages are now still working after the higher paid bled the company dry so to speak
Wheel Nut:
biggusdickusgb:
johnny boy 1:
Ive kept my eye on this post, i think we all have to agree to disagree, orys i think a lot of your comments are not very well thought out, let alone your spelling. The fact of the matter is the British government should never of joined the euEU, fact. But the likes of the johnny foriegner coming over and ■■■■■■ out x(our) country is just wrong, of which you admitted by saying itsit’s just a market.
Well i think your x(you’re) wrong, this is out x(our) native land that we love.
Do you ever think how you would feel if we came over to your country by the thousands, and undercut your tradesmens prices, or gain training paid for by the british tax payer!!(surely if you went over there it would be the polish tax payer)
We could go on and on, there should of(have) been clauses put in that you can only come over if you have sufficient monies to support yourself and fund and(no need for this and) training.
Would all these people that have come over to our country be prepared to fight for this country instead of take x(,) take x(,) take and then bugger off(? missing), i doubt it. This government cocked up and the thousands of men that come over just took advantage, FACT!!!orys doesnt have english as his first language, what’s your excuse?
You missed a couple Steve. Jammy Mutt will be up in arms about the “of” too.
sorry Malc, i must try harder 
johnny boy 1:
Thanks fella’s for the English lesson. You both missed the capital letter’s in Orys name.
i’m closer than you though, there are no capital letters in orys
Orys, sorry mate but wot is “dumping”. I ran a very good profitable company, all of my men were qualified, i adhered to health and safety and i watched Polish builders bodge jobs up. I have had several clients ask me for a quote after Polish cowboys had been in, now of course the typical British home owner will go with the cheapest quote. Ive seen it happen time and time again, i’ve seen first hand the dodgy constrution of some loft convertion’s. You will never convince me that every Polish construction worker came over with a NVQ in there trade, it simply did’nt happen Orys.
Would i ever accept that we are all in it together, no way, it was not my choice to join the EU. However, i cant change it, so wot choice has a English man got in his own country, none.
And before you disect this and come back with answere’s that dont really mean anything, save yourself the trouble, i am not interested now. This is a truckers forum, pure and simple. There nothing more we can say on it is there and i have loads more to worry about to be honest. We are all going round in circles now. You do your clever disecting thing Orys and quote me on that.
I was always taught at school that all names begin with a capitol letter guys. Obvoiusly orys is a exception to the rules then.