darkseeker:
Note, none of this is intentinally aimed at degrading Polish people, I was mearly telling what I’ve seen.
And you obviously met some pricks. They are among every nations 
orys:
jessicas dad:
but if i was laying drivers off or standing them down due to no work then im afraid the foreign lads would be first gone.So you would decide on if they british or not rather that if they are good workers or bad?
How far would that go? Would you sack your best driver if he would be Polish and keep the worse one if he would be British?
well to be honest orys you have got me on that one, 
i would cross that bridge when i came to it.
Good drivers are hard to find so you keep the best, no matter where they are from.
MrReliable:
ORYS SAID :
I already explained, that you can’t send all money earned home. There is no such thing that Poles are sending all their money home and their families are sedning them parcels with food, clothches, fuel and electricity
No but do they buy anything other than food and clothes?So it was proved, even in this thread that they are always paying something into the economy - from taxes starting, at sweets and cinema tickets ending.
They don’t buy houses or put roots downApart of that: why you think that sending some saved money home by Eastern Europeans is bad while in the same time 1000s of Brits having their second homes in spain and other sunny countries, spending a lot time and money there? They are pumping money earned in UK outside as well (not want to mention Hamilton, who’s residency in Switzerland costs UK much more than savings send back home of 1000s european workers)
The bubble is about to burst in Spain this year with the Euro so high people will not be able to afford to holiday abroad, this will hit people with second homes there who lose rental income and may even lose their homes in Spain
And maybe it will be a suprise to you, but money sent back from UK, altough is profitable for Polish economy, isn’t a main factor of boom in our country. Constant progress was seen long time before we even joined the EU.
No the money sent home started the ball rolling, funny how everyone wants to join the EU to claim subsidies while the sensible thing for the UK to do would be to leave.
And as for Peterborouhg: I don’t know if you remember that documentary movie made by BBC about year ago or something. There were a journalist asking people to take up the jobs made by Poles for 7.35 per hours in the field. English NEDs were just laughing at them. In the same time they were moaning about Poles stealing their jobs.
The way this Industry is going we will all be stood in fields this year doing these very jobs, or working in supermarkets for better rates than driving trucksI bet that if they would will to do that work, the English farmers would prefere good English workers than some strange guys from other end of Europe who can’t speak any English also shown in that movie. And if they would have to compete with decent, native British workers, there would be no longer a good business for these Poles, who in most cases have to run two households and travel home very often for the same amount of money than their British peers are earning…
I’m not directing this at Poles it is well known that foreign workers who are here short term do rent houses and then move a minibus load of mates in. My Mate found this out to his horror last November
[/quote]
about 2 weeks ago 5 poles (2couple’s and a child) and a dog 
moved into the flat above me. noisy ■■■■■■■■ actually stamping around at all hours, apart from that they seem ok neighbours they keep themselves to themselves and work etc.
i have a mate who has a polish neighbour (dont we all now ) he’s been having alot of trouble with this guy parking on my mates driveway!! cheeky ■■■■■ maybe its a cultural thing 
.
to those who say us brits shouldnt complain because we go over to other countries and work. yesterdays guardian reports that for every 1 brit who goes abroad to work, 4 non-brits work in the uk.
in hard time, a countries nationals should have priority. i wouldnt expect nor would i go to poland if there wasnt enough jobs to go around the natives.
ps jesus they make us brits look workshy though dont they 
girl at my works does 13 hour days 5 days a week!!!
for all my moaning above ive met and known some decent poles and i’d rather have 50 of them than 1 osama bin laden lookalike living next door to me. they decent people and if time were better i actually like their hard work ethic etc, but times are hard so sorry to say if it means stopping there influx to keep me in a job and home then so ■■■■■■■ be it.
christianh:
No but do they buy anything other than food and clothes?
Yes, they do. White goods, kitchenware, electronic, records, and all other thing you need if you came to another country with only that what fitted into your car boot. They are just people, like everyone else (altough as I am just working as a Market Research Interwiever I seen plenty of scottish flats with nothing at all inside: bed, wardrobe, sofa, TV - that’s all… I bet there are some people like that among Poles as well)
No the money sent home started the ball rolling, funny how everyone wants to join the EU to claim subsidies while the sensible thing for the UK to do would be to leave.
The clue is that EC is not only subsidies. There are many other profits of being in it (common market, common law system, common money, common social system, freedom of travel, cooperation, unification of road systems etc…
The way this Industry is going we will all be stood in fields this year doing these very jobs, or working in supermarkets for better rates than driving trucks
Yeah. I am already out and doing some stupid jobs 
I’m not directing this at Poles it is well known that foreign workers who are here short term do rent houses and then move a minibus load of mates in. My Mate found this out to his horror last November
So I must be somehow strange, as I live alone with my girl only. Yes, sometimes I am inviting my family and my niece or my father are sleeping in my home for week or two, but it’s a common thing in our culture. If I tell them “Come to visit me and stay in B&B” I will be rude. I bet that many Brits also stays in their relative’s house.
about 2 weeks ago 5 poles (2couple’s and a child) and a dog
I dare to tell that Poles are much more willing to integrate than, say, Pakistanis.
i have a mate who has a polish neighbour (dont we all now
Don’t think so: Polish family I know are renting upper floor in the two-flat building. Scottish neighbours have two cars so they asked them if they can use their driveway as well, so they told them “OK, as we don’t have a car”. Recently they bought a car, but neighbours keep to use their driveway as “we were parking here so long and now sudennly it’s bothering you”. If my friends park there, they block their way out and refuse to move their car. So - ■■■■ happens everywhere.
to those who say us brits shouldnt complain because we go over to other countries and work. yesterdays guardian reports that for every 1 brit who goes abroad to work, 4 non-brits work in the uk.
I think there will be a huge overturn soon
in hard time, a countries nationals should have priority. i wouldnt expect nor would i go to poland if there wasnt enough jobs to go around the natives.
In hard time, best workers should have priority. What’s an use of company who went busted becouse of poor workers? Nationality should not matter in that case.
its nothing personal orys, im feeling a little bit protectionist, almost selfish, because for the 2nd time in a few months im on the verge of losing my job again.
im willing to risk being called unfair etc by saying that british jobs should be offered to british workers first, the best british workers, and then to non brits.
what you’re preaching is all well and good but i went through hell last year after losing my job the 1st time. i wouldnt go to your country in very hard times and undercut local workers because that is just not right.
about the Scots pinching your polish mates ■■■■■■■■■■■■… that IS a cultural thing…
the Scots are all tight thieving ■■■■■■ lol!!!
christianh:
wouldnt go to your country in very hard times and undercut local workers because that is just not right.
I know that it’s not to me.
And as for a Brits going to my country: I feel rather citizen of Europe than some particular country. I would have nothing against you coming to my country. If there would be too many of them and they would be better than me I can always move to one of the other countries.
I understand your situation and wish you best luck, but if you don’t want to take opportunity of moving to the other country, while so many people are doing that, it’s just bad for you
hmm, i love my country, i love where i live, dont want to move, or in reality i dont want to force my family to move, put in for four jobs today, all down country and i have trouble explaining that i will travel, somehow they feel i will let them down, zb, anyhow thats bye the bye, but because of the above i stay, if the countries that the migrant workers come from are so superior compaired to our green and pleasant land, why are they here,? and why do they stay,? 
An observation from this thread is that when times are hard you can see divisions opening up between people, and otherwise live and let live type people come to make choices irrespective of any intellectual ■■■■■■■■ about what a Utopia should be !
Another is that, not all the ‘foreign’ registered trucks are actually driven and operated by ‘foreigners’. Just a thought.
yungnad:
When they came there was much better here. Now the other countries aren’t as bad.
So if differences aren’t so bad, now it’s just people’s personal choice.
And who’s mobile, wins. As you just wrote: you are wiklling to travel. They do the same, but they are going further.
orys:
yungnad:
When they came there was much better here. Now the other countries aren’t as bad.
So if differences aren’t so bad, now it’s just people’s personal choice.
And who’s mobile, wins. As you just wrote: you are wiklling to travel. They do the same, but they are going further.
We could go even further, and open up to every shanty town in Africa and India, instead of a gradual rise in living standards lets throw ours away (in the UK) to the rest of the world. No more starvation in Ethiopia, let them all come here and clean bogs. They’ll be gratefull to earn a meal. Lets not let children work long hours seven days a week making clothes for British retailers, let them all come here and get an education and we can pay more for our clothes!!! It makes you wonder what will happen before a line gets drawn by someone, and lets not forget this was an issue even before any recession. I’d expect it to get worse before it gets better !!
Mike-C:
We could go even further, and open up to every shanty town in Africa and India, instead of a gradual rise in living standards lets throw ours away (in the UK) to the rest of the world. No more starvation in Ethiopia, let them all come here and clean bogs. They’ll be gratefull to earn a meal. Lets not let children work long hours seven days a week making clothes for British retailers, let them all come here and get an education and we can pay more for our clothes!!! It makes you wonder what will happen before a line gets drawn by someone, and lets not forget this was an issue even before any recession. I’d expect it to get worse before it gets better !!
That’s not what I meant. I think only countries on relative the same level can join together. Ethiopia has nothing to bring into our economy. I feel sorry for them, but it’s just live.
dont think i want to be involved in this thread anymore, it seems that some people think a migrant worker is a selective occupation and ie ethiopians cant join in ■■? whys that.
read my 1st thread, ive nowt against any migrant worker from any planet even, bring them all in, it was the way the ones at my old firm were underhanded and backstabbing, and i know for a fact all migrants arent like that,
orys:
Mike-C:
We could go even further, and open up to every shanty town in Africa and India, instead of a gradual rise in living standards lets throw ours away (in the UK) to the rest of the world. No more starvation in Ethiopia, let them all come here and clean bogs. They’ll be gratefull to earn a meal. Lets not let children work long hours seven days a week making clothes for British retailers, let them all come here and get an education and we can pay more for our clothes!!! It makes you wonder what will happen before a line gets drawn by someone, and lets not forget this was an issue even before any recession. I’d expect it to get worse before it gets better !!That’s not what I meant. I think only countries on relative the same level can join together. Ethiopia has nothing to bring into our economy. I feel sorry for them, but it’s just live.
You think Poland was on the same level in 2004? Actually don’t answer that, the thousands a week catching the coach from Poland to London say much more than me or you ever could. Think yourself lucky that its cheaper and quicker to travel to Poland than Ethiopia other wise we might have had a different Oxfam poster !!
Mike-C:
You think Poland was on the same level in 2004? Actually don’t answer that, the thousands a week catching the coach from Poland to London say much more than me or you ever could. Think yourself lucky that its cheaper and quicker to travel to Poland than Ethiopia other wise we might have had a different Oxfam poster !!
Poland in 2004 or Romania now have comparable economy. So joining EC they bring not only it’s hungry people, but it’s production, it’s money, it’s market for EC goods to being sold there etc etc etc.
Ethiopia has no economy at all and that’s the difference.
I don’t have nothing again Ethiopian or any other people, but being together in EC union is a business. Everyone has to be able to bring something in, otherwise they can only be a cheap subcontrator.
Now will be the alegoric lorry tale
THE STORY OF EUROPEAN UNION LTD HAULAGE COOPERATIVE
One day mr Britain has a brand new DAF XF artic, one of the 15 in the 15 owner-drivers cooperate company cald European Union Ltd. Mr Poland comes with it’s 15 years old Jelcz Euro, Mr Czech came with his old Liaz and other 8 owner drivers come along as well and they told the EU Lts: “We want to do business together”. “We can speak, can’t we?” asked members of EU Ltd themselves and as they agreed for that they negotiated with new chaps. Mr Britain and the rest tells Mr Poland and his pals: “ok, you can work with us, your drivers will have the same salary, we know that you can’t haul as much and as fast as we can with our brand new lorries, but we can take this risk until you will be able to buy a new vehicle for yourselves too, and then as a 25 vehicles outfit we can gain more together than when you with your ten lorries would comnpete against us”.
Mr Polish with his Jelcz
As all was agreed, Mr Poland and his pals joined EU Ltd. As in company everyone can do whatever runs they want, Poles, who really improved after they got access to EU Ltd know-how are even starting to do some runs which were earlier done by Mr Britain, but he don’t care as he wasn’t able or willing to handle it all anyway so everyone was happy.
After couple of years the market goes down and there is not enaugh job for everyone. Mr Britain gets angry as he is loosing more jobs to Mr Poland and his pals and he becomes unhappy. He can’t put the prices down, becouse he bought a brand new Scania Longline for himself, with all luxuries and which was burning a lot of fuel, therefore he wast’t able to compete with new members of Coop, who were running old, but reliable and cheap to run Mercedes’s, Renaults and Ivecos. He becomed really angry, as he already becomed spoiled with his luxuries and he wasn’t able to imagine himself in ordinary lorry again. “■■■■ off, ya ■■■■■■■■■■ - says he - “we wan’t our jobs back! Get lost from our co-operative!”.
Mr British’s cab full of luxuries
But Mr Poland already improved, he is now driving 10 years old Mercedes so customers no longer dislike his old stinky Jelcz and he is in fact making better business than Mr Britain and he’s happy with that. So he and his Eastern Europenian pals tells mr Britain “Hey! There was a deal, you can’t throw us away from the company. Found yoursef another jobs!” Mr Britain don’t want to give up and keeps persuading “But this was always my job to run for these people! Even my grandfather with his donkey cart was running that route!”
Grandpa British at work
But Mr Poland answers him “OK, so you should keep operating on that route. 5 years ago your customers were crying for transport but you told them that you won’t rise you bum for this money they were paying, and they were let alone, so they were happy that we agreed to drive for them. Why should we give them up back to you now?” Mr Britain knows that they are right but he is not ready to compete, as he has a huge rates to pay for his brand new lorry and he can’t afford to beat them on prices. So he’s crying “You will go away, or I am taking my toys and I am going out of this sandbox!” But no-one is really bother, times are hard and everyone is trying to survive. Mr British places his anger on Mr Polish, who was his friend five years ago and he’s trying to tell everyone that Mr Polish can’t drive, has always his laptop on the dashboard, pooing through the window and cheating with the law. Off course customers know Mr Polish for last five years, so it’s not helping Mr British, as they know, that these stories are not true. Mr Polish had some bad days, but overall he’s decent, hard working guy, who’s just trying to earn for living driving his lorry arround.
This is a point of the story where we are now. To be continued.
But we can went off topic. Mr British told "If we were able to invite Mr Polish to our cooperative, let’s invite Mr Ethiopia too. Now imagine: Mr Ethiopia is very poor guy. All he has is a wheel chair. “We won’t have much use of them in modern haulage industry, you know what I mean. So we don’t want them in our company, especially at the same pay as drivers and their lorries have. And he will be slowing us all down” says Mr Polish. “He won’t be able to carry more than 20 kgs and faster than 5 mph, and we will have to pay him the same money as to the rest”. All cooperative members are agree with Mr Poland, so they decide that instead inviting him to the cooperative, they would rather buy him a Moped and they will be ordering a pizzas from him. Hopefully in 20 years or so Mr Ethiopia will be able to afford at least an old van and then they will consider inviting him to their business again
What may happen if Mr Ethiopia will join the cooperative
So how do you like my fairy tale? I even spent some time to find pictures over internet.
I obviously have too much free time (or rather I am too lazy, as I was supposed to write an article about sightseeing of Western Ross, not a another stupid forum post) I hope at last you enjoyed it
Right then, I’ve just spent god knows how long reading through this whole thread & Orys I must commend you for you patriotism but come on mate, some of the points that are being made are valid ones, yet as soon as there’s a hint of anti Polishness about them, whether it’s real or percieved you jump on your soapbox, by doing this you are weakening your argument.
The British people as a whole are very accomodating to immigrants, yes there are those that are complete racists, but for the most part as long as somebody is prepared to fit in with the British way of doing things & integrate into OUR society then they are welcomed, it’s when ghettos start springing up that the problems start & essentially this is what is happening in some areas, the haulage industry is becoming a ghetto, when a company takes on a large proportion of ‘foreigners’ then divisions occur, especially if the foreigners are working more hours for less money or are responsible for keeping wages lower than they should be as the workers are prepared to live without the luxuries that us British consider as essentials, don’t forget that we’ve worked long & hard for these luxuries, they didn’t just fall from the sky & yet an immigrant worker can have all these luxuries both here & by sending money back can have them in their native country too in a very short space of time, to achieve these things has taken years of hard work by us & our fathers & their fathers. In metaphoric terms Vladimir can leave his tractor in a cabbage field, hop in the back of a trailer in Krackow & jump out in Spalding, get in a nice new Scania, go to work for less than the going rate & within 6 months be driving a 4 year old BMW 3 series to work every day, at night he can relax by playing his PS3 on the 52" Plasma screen he bought for two weeks wages & eat Polish sausage from the local Morrisons, when the economy takes a downturn it’s a simple case of loading all the goodies into the Beemer & a short hop through Belgium & Germany takes him back home again, meanwhile the British are left to pick up the pieces of our economically ravaged country, now that’s where the problem lies.
We all know that the situation the country is in is the fault of the politicians, the Polish people should know exactly how this feels, but what they are doing now is exactly the same as the colonisation to which you refer, they come for the good times & as soon as the going gets tough they are gone, that’s just making a fast buck & that’s unacceptable to the British people, even if does sound like double standards, colonisation was a long long time ago & that ‘we’re better than everyone else’ attitude went with it.
orys:
Ethiopia has no economy at all and that’s the difference.
you’re showing your ignorance again orys, your country is being artificially helped along by the EU.
your economy wasn’t going anyhere and thats why poland had been begging to join the EU for years.
in a short period of time, the EU will pump many billions into your system, they’ll subsidise your road system, subsidise western business into your country, in short they’ll bring you up to our level in a way you couldn’t have done it on your own.
ethiopia has a hell of a lot more problems that poland has, its landlocked for a start.
when did poland last have a drought? when did poland last have a civil war.
yet despite all this they have a fast growing economy, they are one the worlds biggest supplier of coffee, they are in the worlds top ten producers of beef, they are rich in gold and other minerals.
they have had a constant growth rate of 10% year on year since 1998, compare that to polands 3% in 2003
newmercman:
Right then, I’ve just spent god knows how long reading through this whole thread & Orys I must commend you for you patriotism but come on mate, some of the points that are being made are valid ones, yet as soon as there’s a hint of anti Polishness about them, whether it’s real or percieved you jump on your soapbox, by doing this you are weakening your argument.
Hm, maybe youre right. But I am trying just to give you my point of view and, I hope, that together with your point of wiev will help us to create some neutral picture of things.
The British people as a whole are very accomodating to immigrants, yes there are those that are complete racists, but for the most part as long as somebody is prepared to fit in with the British way of doing things & integrate into OUR society then they are welcomed
I have to agree, I was welcomed here warmly and most of Scots seems to have very friendly attitude to Poles. It seems to be different down the border (according to what I am reading here and what I know from my friends living in England) but at overall we think we owe you a big thank you for how we were welcomed here.
, it’s when ghettos start springing up that the problems start & essentially this is what is happening in some areas, the haulage industry is becoming a ghetto, when a company takes on a large proportion of ‘foreigners’ then divisions occur, especially if the foreigners are working more hours for less money or are responsible for keeping wages lower than they should be as the workers are prepared to live without the luxuries that us British consider as essentials, don’t forget that we’ve worked long & hard for these luxuries, they didn’t just fall from the sky & yet an immigrant worker can have all these luxuries both here & by sending money back can have them in their native
How do you think, why last 60 years of hard work of Poles doasn’t bring them any luxuries? There is one word explaining it: Yalta. I know, you don’t like to getting history involved here, but you has to decide: we are talking about today and then we don’t care how long Brits were working for their luxuries, or we are talking about, say, 50 years period and then outcome of the 2nd WW, where Churchill was one of main guys to decide Poland’s fate, is important.
country too in a very short space of time, to achieve these things has taken years of hard work by us & our fathers & their fathers. In metaphoric terms Vladimir can leave his tractor in a cabbage field, hop in the back of a trailer in Krackow & jump out in Spalding, get in a nice new Scania, go to work for less than the going rate & within 6 months be driving a 4 year old BMW 3 series to work every day, at night he can relax by playing his PS3 on the 52" Plasma screen he bought for two weeks wages & eat Polish sausage from the local Morrisons, when the economy takes a downturn it’s a simple case of loading all the goodies into the Beemer & a short hop through Belgium & Germany takes him back home again, meanwhile the British are left to pick up the pieces of our economically ravaged country, now that’s where the problem lies.
I can’t understand one thing. If Your metaphoric WÅ‚odzimierz can leave his tractor in a cabbage field, buy an Ryanair ticket (we are fully allowed here, we don’t need to travel on the back of the trailers) and get a nice new Scania, go to work for small, but legal wage and within six months he’s able to drive BMW, play PS3 on the 52" screen he bought for two weeks wages, when still running his second home back at home and flying/driving to see them very often, why metaphoris Murdo wasn’t able to leave his quad between the sheeps on his glen and work for the same amount of Money? If it was enaugh to buy WÅ‚odzimierz all that unnecessary goods, while he was still sending half od that money home, it should be also good enaugh for Murdo to lead a normal live with his one home in Britain only, with his family with him at home (that’s mean he don’t need to travel across whole Europe so often), drive an 3 years Vauxhall if he thinks that BMW is too expensive… Especially that Murdo was a native guy, he speaks perfect English, he understand the commons and traditions here… He just should be better worker then 90% of WÅ‚odzimierz’s.
OK. Now the economy is turning down, but note: it’s not Britain only, it’s whole the world. When everything was OK Poland was going well but Britain was doing much better so plenty of people were able to move from worse country to better country. Now Poland is slowing down, but Britain is getting much worse. Why can’t you move to another country for better live? It’s nothing new for you, it wouldn’t be first time when Brits were emigrated, correct me if I am wrong, but wasn’t it bout 100 years ago that thousends of Brit were escaping to America? And at these times it was much harder, you had to take really expensive ship and you was practically speaking loosing a contact with your family. Today you can speak with them through skype in your mobile every five minutes and thanks to Ryanair and others you can be at home every weekend.
Things are changed, I know that British people don’t like it, but you just have to keep up with the world. In XXI century Europe who’s mobile, wins. That’s how world is made. Maybe it was a mistake for your country to enter that system (but I don’t think so, you also had many benefits from being an UE member) but now it’s too late to back off.
We all know that the situation the country is in is the fault of the politicians, the Polish people should know exactly how this feels, but what they are doing now is exactly the same as the colonisation to which you refer,
Don’t be silly
If we would colonistate UK, we will come here with enourmous army, ban you from speaking english and force you to speak polish, force you to wear our national clotches and make you our slaves, allowing some of you to grow cabbage in a small pieces of your parent’s land.
It’s beyond comparision that one!
they come for the good times & as soon as the going gets tough they are gone, that’s just making a fast buck & that’s unacceptable to the British people, even if does sound like double standards, colonisation was a long long time ago & that ‘we’re better than everyone else’ attitude went with it.
Maybe it’s unacceptable for you, but you just have to live with it. And as you won’t win with these able to travel for work and better live you have to join them and be better in it. Simply as that.
biggusdickusgb:
‘…the EU will pump many billions into your system, they’ll subsidise your road system, subsidise western business into your country…’’
With the major (read millions of ££’s) ‘contributions’ that UK throws at Brussels each day, er, we are at the pinnacle of funders within the EU …and also on the verge of financial & moral bankruptcy. And you claim:
biggusdickusgb:
‘…bring you up to our [?] level…’
Was the saddening irony intentional…?