Orys,
You’re having a laugh mate do you learn magic or something when you are back home ? as your english money goes further here than ours !
The only reason you guys can do the job for less is because you all live 10 in a house when we just put a family of four in the same house.
The Government has screwed this country up by paying people more to sit at home than they can earn by working, this is down to the fact that living costs are outstripping wages.
Your £52 a day job sounds great mate but after tax it would not dent my living costs. My council tax costs £30 a week then there’s food.
You can sit and tell us your stories about how wrong we are but it does not matter where in the country you go you will bump into someone with a story like the two posted above.
yungnad:
…
Heh. That’s true, some Poles are competing only on price. That’s stupid, as it affects me as well as you.
But, again, not only Poles are doing that. When I was on the interview once together with me was some scottish chap without any experience. I found it later that he offered boss that becouse he’s got no experience he’ll work for 7 per hour (I was offered 7.50).
So I completely agree with you, but, again, offering dumping rates to hauliers is not a question of nationality, even if more Poles are desperated to do that.
johnny boy 1:
ive just read all of this, i had my own construction company but lost it to the polish. There was no way i could compete, they were deliberatly undercutting me, by thousands, resulting in me going bankrupt and laying off 8 full timers who had wifes and kids.
It gets better i even had one of there clients approach me to put there work right.
Some cowboys who are offering dumping prices and then aren’t able to do work properly is a one thing. But often, and you have admit that, Polish people are more skilled and that’s why they are choosen by customers.
I am lucky enaugh to know a scottish garage where engineers are real engineers, not only a fitters. In my experience before that scottish garages are good if you tell them what’s wrong, how to fix that and check twice if they did it correctly. But then, Gordon, who is really lovely guy is undertaking only some kinds of work. He won’t do this, he won’t do that, this is too hard work, that he’s never doing becouse he hates that and so on… Come on, so should I have 20 garages for every kind of work each?
I recently had some electrical problems. Gordon gave me a bunch of adresses and phone numbers… One guy will do one thing but not the other, other will do second, but won’t touch the first, third guy will do it but not in nissan as he hates nissans, fourth told me that job is too small… And I was expecting to spend 70-80 pounds on that job.
Finally friend of mine (SCOTTISH friend of mine) recomended me one Polish guy. I left my car with him outside his flat for one sunday afternoon and everything was done, and on the top of that he fixed my door lock, which wasn’t operating properly. And yet it was cheaper for me (altough he don’t running his own garage, so he earned much better money as all of that went straight to his pocket). But not the money is my issue: is that he’s able to do everything, he’s not asking, not moaning, no job too small, no wrong make of the car… He just fixed what I asked for and also find another problem, called me if that’s ok to fix it and fixed it too (and it was mechanic problem, not electrical one). And yet the door lock…
Other example: when I was working for X three Romanians were employed to do some job. During two weeks they made over 60% of the job and then they went for holidays to Romania and 8 Scots were allocated to that job. It took them another three weeks to finish, and then it was made wrong and they had to put it down and build it up again, which was done in one week and a half (putting down and building up) by this three Romanians, who came back from their holidays.
I am not trying to tell that british tradesmans are worse. They just do not respect their job. I was delivering to this site. Romanians were always working and if I was late, they agreed to come there after hours or wait for me. The Scots were always on their lunch brake - no matter if I was there at 10am or at 6pm.
I bet as you had your own business you were employing people and you met such guys.
And again: off course there are plenty of cowboys like that in Poland, but you get mostly the good ones in UK and that’s why average Polish worker is better than average British worker - becouse all polish morons stayed at home!
Ive sat next to a polish man in the jobcentre, 4got to sign on 2 days before, he walked out with cash.
Sorry for you. I guess he hasn’t forgotten about this important thing becouse in that case I suppose he won’t get any money as well…
I get other example for you: when I had my car accident, I was working here over 20 months but less then two years and I got nothing at all, they even refused to give me crisis loan, which is fully refundable after I 'll come back.
Orys how to you think1 us typical British man feels about the influx of foriegners in our country exploiting us by working for less!
You can quote all you like, but in the real world its not like that, you know it, i know it.
From the one hand I am with you. Crappy ■■■■■■■■ from east europe coming here and stealing our jobs (yes, I had lost my job for some Romanian subcontractors, I perfectly know what you feel). From the other hand - it’s just a market, who can adjust to it’s requirements will survive. If they can, why can’t I? If I don’t want, that’s my problem.
But to balance it up, i broke a disc in my neck over 2 years ago, was rushed into atkinson morely hospital, my surgeon was a lovely man, took care of mem and yet he was polish, came to this country to get qualified, fantastic man. Good and bad in all walks fellas. The government and the bankers got us into this mess, we should never of joined the eu, this country is to soft, we help everybody else out but who helps us.
To be honest I am amazed what your goverment is doing. It’s just stupid for me - the cabbotage rules, or for example Muslims, who seem to be better kind of men here, as they always can start to cry “they are insulting our religius beliefs” and they get whatever they want…
Orys before you disect this and quote this and that, im not having a direct go at you, im just telling you wot it is like in the real world, quotes and figures are not worth crap mate.
Yes, and I am really apreciate this conversation. Yet, you can see different things from your point of wiev and I can see different from mine. I am trying my best to show you how the other side looks and I am honest with you even if I have to admit that some my fellows are doing wrong - I have no problem with it. But becouse everyone has different interests and different point of wiev, quotes and figures showing some objective values matter for me.
How you can justify foriegn lorries coming over here, not paying taxes, putting our drivers out of work is beyond me.
.
If they are doing that illegal - I won’t justify it at any point. If they are within the law - don’t blame them, blame goverment. Many other countries have road tolls, vignettes or whatever. Why your goverment can’t do that?
Id love to see the Great put back into Britian, its not going to happen i dont think. I feel so sorry for my kids.
To be honest with you, altough I am really thankfull for all opportunities I got here, I won’t be happy to stay here or to grow my kids here as well 
I have found some of these pages very interesting, Orys has a very good point to any argument, his points I find are very well made, but some of the less gifted in English also do have a point if not at all well made or subtle, its has however started to rehash other pages and the argument cannot be won. It appears than all ills that fall on the UK are made by the government, banks and the Polish. With this in mind is there an answer? The government could fall, but the other fellas look as bad, I guess the banks will be feeling a bit low at the moment, hopefully the bonuses will take the sting out for them, poor things and the Polish might be persuaded to go home. My view is still the government of your country (I love that I can say this now) is too busy trying to balance the books by whatever means possible at the total expensive of the UK population, the PC culture has bogged down all possible common sense, your buggered…
You may dislike the Poles, but they did remove a far greater foe than Cyclops and his bunch of second home claiming expense demons and without resorting to violence to do it. A shipyard electrician became the leader of Poland, so with that it mind, GO FOR IT LUCY, I would vote for her.
MrReliable:
Orys,
You’re having a laugh mate do you learn magic or something when you are back home ? as your english money goes further here than ours !
What do you mean by that? I also struggling thanks to present economical climate, yet instead of moaning I found some job to pay my bills. And I am not sending any money home if that’s what you mean (except of some Christmas gifts etc).
The only reason you guys can do the job for less is because you all live 10 in a house when we just put a family of four in the same house.
So what I am supposed to think now? Either you are following some stupid myths or you are lying to impress your British mates or you simply have no idea what are you talking about.
I am Polish and I am not living 10 in a house - that’s good enaugh to show that you are not right. I am renting nice one bedroom flat for me, my girl and our two (british) cats. My closest friends here are living in private rented flats as well (two couples), in home provided by housing association (couple living here from years), in council flat (lonely mother with a wee girl) or in house bought by them (two couples, one mixed). I also know one 2bed flat where strangers are occuping each bedroom and another one where my friend is living in one bedroom and young couple is living in other one. I also have few scottish friends and ALL OF THEM are student or young working people and ALL OF THEM are sharing flats. So?
The Government has screwed this country up by paying people more to sit at home than they can earn by working, this is down to the fact that living costs are outstripping wages.
Your £52 a day job sounds great mate but after tax it would not dent my living costs. My council tax costs £30 a week then there’s food.
I know. I also heard that. When I had my accident and when I wasn’t entitled to incapacity benefit I was told in jobcentre that if my girl, who was then working part time, will quit her job and we’ll do joint claim we’ll get more than she’s earning. We didn’t take this opportunity, it was hard but finally I got a wee job here and there then after my injuries improved found full time work and repaid all my debts. Don’t blame me that many Brits prefere to sit on state benefits, it’s not my fault!
My 52 per day is crap, I know that. But job is not complicated, if I can do, everyone can do it. And having over 200 per week, while working 24 hours only is not so bad for student, isn’t it? If you’ll work full time you’ll get over 300, by working weekends you can build it up to over 400… Nowadays many drivers earn less. OK, I won’t buy new 30 inches plazma HD Ready TV, but it pays my bills and leaves some money for living.
About two years ago when my girl came here from Poland I wanted her to stay at home and learn English, as she wasn’t speaking it at all. I was then working as a driver, with weekly take home about 300, she was bringing home another nearly 100 per week. Such sum was good enaugh to pay my rent, bills, council flat (which now I am extempt from, as we both are full time students) and to live modestly. By modestly I mean that we weren’t eating only “tesco” product, we had quite a good meals and clothes, but we weren’t eating out too much, traveling and to buy a new desktop computer was a hard thing for us. So believe or not, but I dare to tell that couple is able to survive on 1200 per month without living 10 in a flat and avoiding to pay car insurers, as the myths talking us. Off course soon we both were better off in better jobs so our live much improved. So i simply do not understand: it’s only 52 per day, but it’s A JOB. If you will still struggling you got your working tax credits or other benefits (I may be wrong, i was never trying to obtain one). And if you have kids, that’s what child benefits are for. If I can, why other’s can? And even if 52 per day is not ehaugh, is it better to sit home on 72 to per week (or whatever the jobseekers allowance is?)
You can sit and tell us your stories about how wrong we are but it does not matter where in the country you go you will bump into someone with a story like the two posted above.
The credit crunch hit everyone in this country (maybe except high managements of the banks 
) and I can assure you that is perfectly the same within Polish community. And yet many of them already went home, so I dare to tell that statistically speaking it may be even worse. So it’s not that some Brits have no jobs becouse every Poles are working and we both know that I am right.
orys:
But often, and you have admit that, Polish people are more skilled and that’s why they are choosen by customers.
Although back in 2004 when the work market was opened up and there was a shortage of HGV drivers Polish drivers where chosen not for their skill but just for the fact they had a C+E licence. I witnessed many of them who could not even park in a parking bay sideways working out of Tescos at Didcot. They sent them out in pairs, they probably rolled the cages from outside in the street to the loading bay as there was no way they could park !!! Of course i do realise that many of them got their licence to come here specifically to drive HGV for the extra money, rather than say working in a warehouse. And as such had no experience at all. Thats where the rumours come from that the Poles can’t drive 
Mike-C:
Of course i do realise that many of them got their licence to come here specifically to drive HGV for the extra money, rather than say working in a warehouse. And as such had no experience at all. Thats where the rumours come from that the Poles can’t drive
You are ■■■■ right here! That what I did! 
But then I improved my skills.
Yet: there are plenty of British drivers as well who just passed their HGV licenses, and we both know that they weren’t experienced from the first day at work as well.
That’s all true, but I was speaking rather about some tradesmans - builders, joiners, car mechanics, electricians etc.
I think that the lorry drivers in Poland were able to earn about 2 times more here than in Poland while good tradesmen was able to earn much much more. And you can pass your HGV in one week (both here and in Poland) while you can’t become a good tradesmen in just one week.
orys:
Mike-C:
Of course i do realise that many of them got their licence to come here specifically to drive HGV for the extra money, rather than say working in a warehouse. And as such had no experience at all. Thats where the rumours come from that the Poles can’t driveYou are ■■■■ right here! That what I did!
But then I improved my skills.
Yet: there are plenty of British drivers as well who just passed their HGV licenses, and we both know that they weren’t experienced from the first day at work as well.
That’s all true, but I was speaking rather about some tradesmans - builders, joiners, car mechanics, electricians etc.
I think that the lorry drivers in Poland were able to earn about 2 times more here than in Poland while good tradesmen was able to earn much much more. And you can pass your HGV in one week (both here and in Poland) while you can’t become a good tradesmen in just one week.
I’d already figured that you where to smart to be a truck driver !! I can deduce some more facts from this post !!! You wern’t good enough to get your +E entitlement, Poles are lousy drivers but great tradesmen 
And yes the British drivers where exactly the same when they first passed. Although they where not passing at a rate of several thousand a week so it tended not to stick out so much
Mike-C:
I’d already figured that you where to smart to be a truck driver !! I can deduce some more facts from this post !!! You wern’t good enough to get your +E entitlement
Wrong! When I was doing my HGV license, they were cleaning some bribing scum in examination centre, therefore most of examiners were arrested and due to lack of people able to conduct exams waiting times were nearly 6 monts. Therefore I decided to spend my money saved for C+E for a trip to Turkey to watch total solar eclipse ( knsa.info/turcja.php polish only, but lot of pictures) and went to UK with my C only, planning that I will do C+E later. Fortunately I found interesting job for C, and driving over Hebrides was much more interesting than trunking South, so it somehow stayed left alone 
Mike-C:
I’d already figured that you where to smart to be a truck driver !! I can deduce some more facts from this post !!! You wern’t good enough to get your +E entitlement
What the hell… I did not managed to do my C+E just after my C becouse I was working on my bachelor’s degree here physics.uni.wroc.pl/pag__m/s … aster.html
Obviously I am too slim in my ears to do physics and astronomy along truck driving in the same time
And then it was too late as problems in examination centre arised…
But back to being serious: altough it’s true that you don’t need to be too smart to drive a lorries, unlike some stupid jobs trucking is not for morons only. I think it was one of the best jobs I had in my live, and I did a lot, from teaching to journalism. I know many people (Polish and Scottish) who were graduated but then becomed a truckers and are happy.
IMO you go to work to provide for your family weather you british or foreigner,I am unemployed at the mo and are actively looking for work, if I see a job advertised i will apply for it and if i am lucky to get an interview,one thing that is not on my mine at the time is weather a foreigner is going to get the job, we all take a chance at interviews and if you unsuccessful then that’s it move on look else wear
you can’t dwell on who got the job just no that you didn’t.
life is to short, i look on it that someone better got the job, and as you all know it is the employers choice after all
worked for company in worcestershire running old actrosses
employed polish drivers they live on site in caravans
ex gaffer charges rent £50pw per driver 5 drivers thats £250pw hes earning in rent
they are also on 50p a hour less but due to the illegal hours they work ie weekdays and weekends they are on more money than a legal driver
HAVE A GUESS WHO GOT LAYED OFF
also in gloucester their is a haulier who employs polish drivers gaffer brought houses to house them sometime 8 to a house others live in caravans in yard
reguarly see polish drivers ■■■■■■ on vodka on a sunday evening then driving early monday morning
every 3months they used to travel home come back a few weeks later with food cheap ■■■■ and vodka
Orys,
lets get one thing straight I have nothing against Poles nor probably do most on this site. The issue is that certain employers are abusing the system and british workers by offering wages at a level that a worker in the UK with a family and house etc. cannot live on. The government needs to tighten up on these bandits now rather than spout meaningless promises around British jobs then sit on the well expenses behinds. Although undercutting by foreign firms does happen alot and is on the increase . I had a chat with a Polish driver a few days ago in the Docklands who was most upset about claims that they can work for much less, house price increases and cost of living increases in Poland coupled to the devalued pound are making it almost pointless for some to work here away from family and friends. Soon the only poles left here thinking britain is a goldmine will be farm hands and idiots (his comment not mine), he aslo made a valid point that many blame the Poles over here working whilst the Romanian gypsy scum and their bulgarian cousins that come here just to sit on their backsides and claim benefits get little abuse.
As for second homes in france etc. and jobs for locals , I totally agree all these schemes should be put into practice throughout Europe not just here. Its ridiculous that homes in Bulgaria etc. should change overnight virtually to hundreds of times the income of local families. Foreign buyers yes but the Bulgarians were happy to sell at these prices and sod solidarity with their fellow locals.
Like it or not, the EU only worked because the original member states had very similar pay rates ,standards of living and economic stability. When the doors were opened to countries who couldn’t match these parameters conflict was inevitable. The Polish economy is booming so they say, I beg to differ companies made a bolt for Poland as soon as it joined the EU at a rate far higher than after the fall of communism. Cheaper taxation and local employment, EU subsidies and all the rest of the benefits offered to them by the Polish Government. When the holiday is over and companies start to slip back into their original bases as the Euro /Pound start to slip and Polish produced products become more expensive. I am afraid to say that Poland will be left high and dry (by Poland I mean all new EU members just using it as an example)
Many high ranking financiers believe the days of the Euro and EU are numbered, Italy Greece Spain and Ireland are all suffering from the single currency and fixed interest rates. (we suffer because our PM is a moron) Germany and France bolstered the EURO against sterling they have now both hit a wall so watch the Euro fall against the Dollar and Pound over the next year and watch the Euro states bail out as fast as they got into it. If a return to national currency happens in Europe this too will have an adverse effect on the rise of the new EU states.
After all it is definately going to fail because Gordon Brown wants us to join it, so based on his track record its a dead cert for failure. 
graham schroeder:
worked for company in worcestershire running old actrosses
employed polish drivers they live on site in caravans
ex gaffer charges rent £50pw per driver 5 drivers thats £250pw hes earning in rent
they are also on 50p a hour less but due to the illegal hours they work ie weekdays and weekends they are on more money than a legal driver
HAVE A GUESS WHO GOT LAYED OFF
also in gloucester their is a haulier who employs polish drivers gaffer brought houses to house them sometime 8 to a house others live in caravans in yard
reguarly see polish drivers ■■■■■■ on vodka on a sunday evening then driving early monday morning
every 3months they used to travel home come back a few weeks later with food cheap ■■■■ and vodka
This is uncanny !! I too lived in a caravan whilst working away. I also had a weekend job too !!! And, you guessed it, i like a tipple on a Sunday afternoon and went home approx every three weeks for a weekend and came back with cheap ■■■■. Caravanning is not the preserve of the Polish.
Mike,
I have to agree with you, I worked on many projects (outside transport) where living in caravans for months at a time where the norm. I do feel that we have got a tad soft in the UK with regards working away etc. an example is my own brother in law. 3 kids out of work lives in folkestone and I got him on a job in manchester fitting ducting. Not interested too far away won’t see his family etc. my view is I will work anywhere to provide for mine that’s my job (oh and flicking a hoover around on a sunday 
) but for alot know life is a little too cosy if you catch my drift.
In fairness though I think Graham is pointing too lower living costs regarding EU workers rather than jobs away from home.Which is a fact but haul the bosses over the coals and not the guy’s taking the jobs.
acceptme:
so your telling me that just because im from another country i shouldnt be allowed to work here. its not our fault the british goverment has let so many foreingers in… what are your views on people who migrate to america etc to work… they are taking jobs from the local people as well or is this ok in your mind?
ate
when foreigners emigrate to the us or oz etc, you are vetted, you have to have a trade which that country is needing, and you have to go with ex amount of cash to support yourself , and you cant get there free health service, thats why nobody moans!!!
N2N Transport:
Mike,I have to agree with you, I worked on many projects (outside transport) where living in caravans for months at a time where the norm. I do feel that we have got a tad soft in the UK with regards working away etc. an example is my own brother in law. 3 kids out of work lives in folkestone and I got him on a job in manchester fitting ducting. Not interested too far away won’t see his family etc. my view is I will work anywhere to provide for mine that’s my job (oh and flicking a hoover around on a sunday
I was driving lorries when i was living in one Thinking back i can remember when i was working around DIRFT (pre 2004 when EU opened up to open labour), most of the warehouse staff where bused in by agencies from either Leicester and Northampton and they where Africans or Iraq/Iranian types. I knew people around there that hadn’t had a job in years, they didn’t like the week of earlies and then lates. Tescos at Hinkley had a waste cardboard depot just almost opposite it (probably still do) that was almost exclusively staffed by Iraquis or whatever, probably the locals didn’t like working with stinking cardboard. I feel for the guys who are just desperate to work and are blaming foreigners, foreigners must be all over the world though as the whole world is going through a reccesion/depression !! The people who don’t want work will never work until you stop their benefits. They should lose their vote !! No pay into the pot, no say !!
N2N Transport:
In fairness though I think Graham is pointing too lower living costs regarding EU workers rather than jobs away from home.Which is a fact but haul the bosses over the coals and not the guy’s taking the jobs.
i agree (probably) with Grahams idea that we have to many immigrants here, although i’m not so sure on his logic about them living in caravans and undercutting everyone. If they’re entitled to be here then they are entitled to do that, if they wern’t entitled to be here then…
Like you say, blame the powers that be not the grafters.
i to have lived in lorries
point being when worked for certain glos firm when drivers asked for pay increase
was told no pay rise if you dont like it we can always employ another pole
also weekend work went to the sober ones cheaper rate
overnight parking truckstops was stopped
yes iam bitter cost of living in this country ie morgage taxes food you name it is alot more expensive in this country than are east european neighbours
graham schroeder:
yes iam bitter cost of living in this country ie morgage taxes food you name it is alot more expensive in this country than are east european neighbours
I would say this is not quite the case, we do not live on 5p a day here, VAT is 22%, white goods are more expensive here, cars are more expensive, its a fairly big list, its a misconception to say this is a cheap place to live. For a typical Polish wage in Poland I would say its a very expensive place to live on the whole. I think I can better you on basic food, building materials, utility bills and diesel spring to mind, but not much else. My opinion is that most Polish folk do not have the opportunities or social safety net to fall back on, so do take the chance to go to another country to better themselves or earn money. There is one country were you can catch a bus to and walk in and work straight away, were the work is far from hard and the payback pretty good.
I do the same, live in Poland work in Denmark, not as easy to get into as the UK for sure, but as I lived in DK for a few years and have papers I can do it. I earn in 2 days what a Pole earns in a month and to do that I sleep in a car or a truck. I am there just to work and bring the money home, I take as much food as I can and live a very basic life while there. My work ethic is completely different to how I used to work before I moved to Poland.
If Poles are cooped up 10 in a room, not being paid correctly, being ripped off, then that is the local population at fault and another example of the UK government with its finger off the pulse yet again. Are not all your ills caused by your elected government? The Poles will come because its easy to get in and get work, if the law changes or the pound really goes pants, then that might do it.
i give up let the poles have it. i think its time to hang up the keyes. been offered 6k for W reg 144 530 4x2 its gotta go i reckon its time to go on the dole.