English work

[orys]

annitram:
Just one correction to this Orys

The Scottish Parliament gets ALL of its money from the budget of the U.K government and has made several contentious decisions including the funding of students at university and free medical prescriptions which are not available to the general public of the U.K incidentally the largest financial contributor.( The system for deciding Scottish grants has been exposed as being blatantly unfair as the payment to the Scottish parliament per head is far higher than to English citizens despite English citizens contributing most )
So whilst not criticizing you in the slightest you have benefited from the generosity of the English who do not benefit from the same rules despite paying for most of it.

Hm, some Scots have other opinion for it, as they are treating english contribution to Scottish budget as a fair punishments for ages of exploitation… I do not want to be involved in discussion on that topic, as I am the last person to solve English-Scottish animosies

But anyway: it’s open to all EU members excl. English and maybe Welsh (as AFAIK NI Studends are treated the same way). So when French can come, why can’t I? I think you don’t have a problem with that, and it’s great.

On the subject of driving licences I was informed by Polish drivers who worked for a friend of mine (yes they were exploited) that truck licences were given for towing a trailer with a farm tractor.

Yes, and my Scottish friend told me that he was driving his rover 214 150 mph on M25 in friday afternoon.

I think it’s some language misunderstanding, as I explained above. I simply do not believe in that, it’s does not makes sense. If they paid a huge bribe to get license illegaly what’s the point to ask them to drive a farm tractor? They would just get this license somewhere in dark lane without driving a supermarket cart…

(or they are really old, and they were learning in 60s or something, but then you have some grandparent rules here as well, and you can meet British drivers who weren’t never passing their licences at all).

On the subject of Immigrant workers living here I deliver Fresh Produce all over the U.K and see many places where immigrant workers are living in caravans and bunk houses on the farms etc where they work. These people are here to earn money I know but are generally paid low wages (exploitation)
and are not contributing to U.K p.l.c other than under-funded tax and N.I but take out of the system in tax credits and family allowance payments.

Off course, but they are here becouse no Brit want to work in the field! Cheap farm seasonal workers are needed all arround the Europe, even in Poland! Even Germans, who are very anti-polish and Poles aren’t still allowed to work there are giving some special permisions for seasonal workers.

Whilst I accept that many accidents involving foreign trucks are caused by the car driver involved the number of incidents involving foreign trucks in Kent and around the M25 is unacceptable, after all when U.K hauliers travelled more extensively to the continent you did not see trails of French and Belgian cars smashed at the side of the road.

I am affraid that number of British lorries in Europe was never such big as the number of foreign lorries in UK nowadays.

1. Becouse even if ALL British lorries starts to drive in Europe they will be not able to create even couple of percents of whole European traffic, while only few percents of European lorries will totally block the British roads
2. In this time amount of traffic was much smaller.
3. Last but not least: Every single British or Irish driver doing European work has to be familiar with RHD driving, while for Polish drivers doing European jobs UK is only one of many countries, this one with this strange people, who are driving on the wrong side. So they aren’t so used to it as the British European drivers are to right side driving.

[orys]

gsm31:
It’s ridiculous that a student from The E.U. can get a free University Education in Scotland but someone from England,N.I. or Wales has to pay if they want to go to University here.
Prescription charges are currently £5 per item,think you’re getting confused with Wales where charges were abolished.

Yeah, and there is one more strange factor in that.

1. If you are Polish and if you go to Scotland for Study, (no matter if you were living in Poland or, for example in France) you will have your fees paid.

2. If you are Polish, living in Scotland for less than three years, and then you will go to the university, you will have your fees paid.

3. If you are Polish, living in Scotland for more than three years, and then you will go to the university, you will have your fees paid, and you will have chance for bursary etc at equal rights as an any Scottish person (or English, who was living in Scotland for more than three years)

4. But if you are Polish and you lived in England for more than three years and then you went to Scottish University, you won’t get a penny.

Question: what’s the difference for Scotland if this particular Pole was living before in France or in England?

[annitram]

orys:

gsm31:
It’s ridiculous that a student from The E.U. can get a free University Education in Scotland but someone from England,N.I. or Wales has to pay if they want to go to University here.
Prescription charges are currently £5 per item,think you’re getting confused with Wales where charges were abolished.

Yeah, and there is one more strange factor in that.

1. If you are Polish and if you go to Scotland for Study, (no matter if you were living in Poland or, for example in France) you will have your fees paid.

2. If you are Polish, living in Scotland for less than three years, and then you will go to the university, you will have your fees paid.

3. If you are Polish, living in Scotland for more than three years, and then you will go to the university, you will have your fees paid, and you will have chance for bursary etc at equal rights as an any Scottish person (or English, who was living in Scotland for more than three years)

4. But if you are Polish and you lived in England for more than three years and then you went to Scottish University, you won’t get a penny.

Question: what’s the difference for Scotland if this particular Pole was living before in France or in England?

Comes back to the same thing Orys and that is that the Scottish parliament gets a higher level of funding per head than the rest of the U.K and if that rule was not there then no body would go to English Universities as they must pay.
The system is unfair and the U.K pays again.

Your scottish friends may bleat on about revenues from North Sea oil but that income is far less than the grants paid to Scotland.

[gogzy]

annitram:

orys:

gsm31:
It’s ridiculous that a student from The E.U. can get a free University Education in Scotland but someone from England,N.I. or Wales has to pay if they want to go to University here.
Prescription charges are currently £5 per item,think you’re getting confused with Wales where charges were abolished.

Yeah, and there is one more strange factor in that.

1. If you are Polish and if you go to Scotland for Study, (no matter if you were living in Poland or, for example in France) you will have your fees paid.

2. If you are Polish, living in Scotland for less than three years, and then you will go to the university, you will have your fees paid.

3. If you are Polish, living in Scotland for more than three years, and then you will go to the university, you will have your fees paid, and you will have chance for bursary etc at equal rights as an any Scottish person (or English, who was living in Scotland for more than three years)

4. But if you are Polish and you lived in England for more than three years and then you went to Scottish University, you won’t get a penny.

Question: what’s the difference for Scotland if this particular Pole was living before in France or in England?

Comes back to the same thing Orys and that is that the Scottish parliament gets a higher level of funding per head than the rest of the U.K and if that rule was not there then no body would go to English Universities as they must pay.
The system is unfair and the U.K pays again.

Your scottish friends may bleat on about revenues from North Sea oil but that income is far less than the grants paid to Scotland.

we only get more per head and wait for this but its quite obvious why…

are you ready?

there are more people living in london than the whole of scotland

simple really, you live in a vastly populated country, we dont, we have more to spend due to us having less people to spend it on.

[v8_passion]

as seven assett are a freightliner spin of company i would be very very surprised if they were using foreign drivers and it is something i will ask on monday.
[/quote]

there are several in felixstowe i delivered 2 of my units to the company next door for export and there was sveral there and this was only last week so i reckon u so need to find out my friend, there is afamily of them from what the export boy was saying dad and several sons with name plates HAWK 1 TO HAWK 8 so what u make of that,

[goaty]

V8 Passion:

Goaty:
:shock: Ah, ya got me ! No I enjoy painting,decorating and putting up shelves.
I presume you don’t get to Fxt or Ipswich much or you wouldn’t need to ask.
I am always open to offers of business especially as my current set of customers are dead at present.
One that pays a sensible rate and actually settles the invoice at the agreed date.

doesnt it ■■■■ you off that a lot of the big players down your way are using foreigners 7asset, wincanton, turners etc not to mention the smaller people that use them or dont you care that they are doing your work,

Tbh, the above players won’t use people such as myself. I did have a good 5-6 months on Goldstar early last year but as they are downsizing and now have a surplus of drivers they have no need for outside contractors.

I, personally have no axe to grind with the poles, liths or anyone that comes here to do the same job for the same pay as UK drivers. I’m afraid to say i’ve met more agreeable E.E’s than I have UK Coppers ! Not much of a bench mark I know.

This can of worms you’ve opened is divided into,
1- The invasion of cut price E.E. hauliers running on (until recently) cheap derv and nicking domestic work while running under cabotage.

2- Those citizens who come here to work LEGALLY and fill the huge amount of vacancies available (until recently). (This I would divide into a & b below.)

2a- Those such as orys who have come here to make a new life for themselves and contribute to the economy, not only with PAYE but by keeping their hard earned in circulation here.

2b- Those that come here to do UK jobs and stay for a fixed period while sending the money home, thus leaching money away from UK plc in the long term.

1, Needs sorting out as a matter of urgency. At least give us a level playing field.

2b, I’m not a fan of.

2a, I’m in two minds about. As I said on a personal level, live and let live.
From the wages perspective, the driver shortage (R.I.P.) did force operators to increase them but the influx of readily available, experienced drivers certainly froze this new found generosity.

BUT, the whole argument about “them ZBing Polish nicking our job’s” is imho, a load of crap.
In case you hadn’t noticed we are in a recession caused by (apparently) incompetant merchant bankers (ironic title really), NOT by Eastern European drivers !

So to answer your question V8PASSION, no it doesn’t ■■■■ me off that they are doing MY WORK. I chose to set up my company and take the plunge in the cut throat world of haulage, no one owes me a living. The chaps on Seven Lincs, Hawk1, et al chose to take full time employment within Roy Dunnet’s empire before the ■■■ hit the spinny thing and so imho it is THEIR job/work.

[annitram]

Orys Wrote

I am affraid that number of British lorries in Europe was never such big as the number of foreign lorries in UK nowadays.

1. Becouse even if ALL British lorries starts to drive in Europe they will be not able to create even couple of percents of whole European traffic, while only few percents of European lorries will totally block the British roads
2. In this time amount of traffic was much smaller.
3. Last but not least: Every single British or Irish driver doing European work has to be familiar with RHD driving, while for Polish drivers doing European jobs UK is only one of many countries, this one with this strange people, who are driving on the wrong side. Smile So they aren’t so used to it as the British European drivers are to right side driving.

10 years ago the number of British trucks carrying out trips abroad was approx 65% of the total truck traffic carrying out journeys to or from the UK and while the number of journeys has increased this figure has dwindled to approx 25% of journeys the fact remains that there were not the same levels of accidents as I mentioned before. Police forces in the South East have to deal with numerous accidents on a daily basis and acknowledge that this is a big problem ,hence the issuing of free blindspot Fresnel Lenses to drivers of left hand drive trucks entering the UK. Believe me Orys if it wasnt a problem this government wouldnt give anything away for free.

On your point of Foreign drivers not being used to driving here on the wrong side of the road they travel here often enough and use the same routes and should know the problems. You have pointed out what hard standards must be achieved to pass driving tests so they should be good enough to be able to cope with any situation the same as drivers here but basically many dont.
I make these comments in general and not to any one nation but having seen many foreign drivers of all nationalities I find it hard to believe that the standards elsewhere in Europe are as good as you claim.

[orys]

annitram:
10 years ago the number of British trucks carrying out trips abroad was approx 65% of the total truck traffic carrying out journeys to or from the UK and while the number of journeys has increased this figure has dwindled to approx 25% of journeys the fact remains that there were not the same levels of accidents as I mentioned before. Police forces in the South East have to deal with numerous accidents on a daily basis and acknowledge that this is a big problem ,hence the issuing of free blindspot Fresnel Lenses to drivers of left hand drive trucks entering the UK. Believe me Orys if it wasnt a problem this government wouldnt give anything away for free.

Yeh, I know what you mean, but what I meant is that traffic in Europe is not only this one which is comes from UK. For example in France, they have traffic from Germany, Italy, Spain etc, so traffic entering from UK is only part of it…

cope with any situation the same as drivers here but basically many dont.
I make these comments in general and not to any one nation but having seen many foreign drivers of all nationalities I find it hard to believe that the standards elsewhere in Europe are as good as you claim.

I had seen many British lorries involved in accidents as well… It’s not that all bad drivers are coming from Europe…

Other things in statistics is that when the two British cars have a bump, drivers are exchanging their details and that’s all. When the foreign vehicle is involved, often police is called, so there is more accidents reported and you can see it in statistics.

[annitram]

cope with any situation the same as drivers here but basically many dont.
I make these comments in general and not to any one nation but having seen many foreign drivers of all nationalities I find it hard to believe that the standards elsewhere in Europe are as good as you claim.

I had seen many British lorries involved in accidents as well… It’s not that all bad drivers are coming from Europe…

I did not say that all bad drivers came from Europe ,but that there was a major problem in the south east which would be the obvious problem area but doesnt stop in that area. I do agree that there are many bad British drivers also but the type of accident I referred to doesnt seem to happen to Brits abroad.
I too wonder how accidents occur in the middle of the night between 2 or more trucks when there is no one else around.

Orys wrote

Other things in statistics is that when the two British cars have a bump, drivers are exchanging their details and that’s all. When the foreign vehicle is involved, often police is called, so there is more accidents reported and you can see it in statistics.
[/quote]

In the U.K unless someone is injured there is no need to call the police, however as many foreign drivers do not speak English and the British are notorious for not speaking anything other than english they involve the police to make sure everything is ok eg:- licence and insurance.

N.b As English is the ONLY world language we have no real need to speak anything else

[orys]

annitram:
I did not say that all bad drivers came from Europe ,but that there was a major problem in the south east which would be the obvious problem area but doesnt stop in that area. I do agree that there are many bad British drivers also but the type of accident I referred to doesnt seem to happen to Brits abroad.

Becouse, for example, M25 is one of the most busy motorways in whole Europe, and you have about 30% of vehicles with steering wheel on the wrong side. Show me any place in Europe where Britis drivers are so numerous…

I too wonder how accidents occur in the middle of the night between 2 or more trucks when there is no one else around.

I also wonder that seems impossible. Only explanation is that one of the drivers is sleepy or do not paying enaugh attention. Or maybe the wind can be to blame? For me such accident on Motorways are just stupid. I personally if motorway is empty and wind is so strong overtake by straddling two inside lanes instead of driving 15 cms from other lorry.

BTW: I know two such incidents in my live. One was on M74 near Lockerbie and there were two BRITISH lorries involved (I know, becouse it was driver from place I worked involved in this accident and other drivers, which blame was that, was also British) and one on A4 in Poland, near Opole, when two Polish lorries smashed its mirrors.

In the U.K unless someone is injured there is no need to call the police, however as many foreign drivers do not speak English and the British are notorious for not speaking anything other than english they involve the police to make sure everything is ok eg:- licence and insurance.

Fully understandable, and shows why Police have so big statistics with foreign drivers involved - there is simply no need to report most of small bumps.

N.b As English is the ONLY world language we have no real need to speak anything else

I think they would not agree with that in South America, but apart of that you are quite right. But that’s bring something else to attention regarding to the main topic of this thread: as Brits aren’t learning foreign languages too much every worker from foreign country with good english who comes here has a big advantage of knowing “foreign” language up to native level In some jobs (like international spedition for instance) is quite important. And even if it’s not required in his job, he always can easily earn few quids as a translator or interpreter…

[annitram]

Orys Wrote

Becouse, for example, M25 is one of the most busy motorways in whole Europe, and you have about 30% of vehicles with steering wheel on the wrong side. Show me any place in Europe where Britis drivers are so numerous…

There may be a large number of foreign trucks in the south east I doubt after you leave the M20 its anywhere near 30% however the same type of incident occurs on all Motorways (not just in the south east ) even on the quieter ones on quiet days. I accept that there are not the numbers of Brit drivers abroad now but that subject and the reasons for it are being discussed elsewhere on the Euro drivers forum, but Orys there was a time when large numbers of brit trucks went abroad without the incidents and also without the extra mirrors found on modern trucks.

[annitram]

Orys wrote

Quote:

N.b As English is the ONLY world language we have no real need to speak anything else Laughing Laughing Laughing

I think they would not agree with that in South America, but apart of that you are quite right. But that’s bring something else to attention regarding to the main topic of this thread: as Brits aren’t learning foreign languages too much every worker from foreign country with good english who comes here has a big advantage of knowing “foreign” language up to native level Wink In some jobs (like international spedition for instance) is quite important. And even if it’s not required in his job, he always can easily earn few quids as a translator or interpreter…

You are right about the British being lazy with languages and it is impolite when we go abroad but I am sure that you will agree the main language for commerce is English … much to the annoyance of the French

[orys]

annitram:
but Orys there was a time when large numbers of brit trucks went abroad without the incidents and also without the extra mirrors found on modern trucks.

I don’t believe that there was ever time that lorries from any country were going abroads without the incidents (Maybe it was such time, let’s say in 1905…)

[orys]

annitram:
You are right about the British being lazy with languages and it is impolite when we go abroad but I am sure that you will agree the main language for commerce is English … much to the annoyance of the French

Yes, but it also have an impact on English.

Everyones prefer English to French, becouse English is just simplier. I am not sure if there is another language where you can be fully communicative in your basic needs after few weeks only. Try that with Polish and You’ll see what I mean (I am giving Polish lessons and I am studying Czech with English speakers so I think I have quite a good position to raise that opinion)

But becouse of that there will be soon (if it’s not the true already) more English speakers, who aren’t native then native speakers. And off course their English skills vary. So there will be need to simplify English to allow the these ones with weaker english skills to follow…

I think it’s already going on. I am always suprised why you are using the same words for so many meaning when you have so rich dictionary…

English dictionary, I read, have much more words in it than Polish dictionary, but average English speaker is using 2000 words and understands about 7000 while average Polish speaker is using 7000 words and understands 30 000…

Shame for English, as, while this is one of the important in history and beautiful languages, is becomes simply a communicative tool and it’s loosing all it’s poetry…

[harry_kyng]

orys:
English dictionary, I read, have much more words in it than Polish dictionary, but average English speaker is using 2000 words and understands about 7000 while average Polish speaker is using 7000 words and understands 30 000…

Shame for English, as, while this is one of the important in history and beautiful languages, is becomes simply a communicative tool and it’s loosing all it’s poetry…

There are many places in this green and pleasant land where you would be pushing it to find locals who use anywhere near 2000 words So you’re doing pretty good

[drew128]

The perpetrator of the thread knows thirty two words and can spell six of them unaided.

[annitram]

drew128:
The perpetrator of the thread knows thirty two words and can spell six of them unaided.

I think drew that if one is going to complain about somebody else’s language it might be a good idea to use the correct terminology oneself. May I suggest Originator as an alternative.

Definitions of perpetrator on the Web:

• someone who perpetrates wrongdoing
  wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn

• In the parlance of criminal justice, a suspect is a known person suspected of committing a crime.
  en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perpetrator

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion whether you agree with it or not therefore V8 Passion committed no crime in originating this thread as the views he has written are his opinion.

Definition of originator on the web

someone who creates new things
wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn

[drew128]

annitram:

drew128:
The perpetrator of the thread knows thirty two words and can spell six of them unaided.

I think drew that if one is going to complain about somebody else’s language it might be a good idea to use the correct terminology oneself. May I suggest Originator as an alternative.

Definitions of perpetrator on the Web:

• someone who perpetrates wrongdoing
  wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn

• In the parlance of criminal justice, a suspect is a known person suspected of committing a crime.
  en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perpetrator

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion whether you agree with it or not therefore V8 Passion committed no crime in originating this thread as the views he has written are his opinion.

Definition of originator on the web

someone who creates new things
wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn

Thanks for that, you are entitled to your opinion, but I would say I was right, in my opinion. Originator would flatter him/her too much.

[annitram]

V8 Passion:
Who thinks when work is short the foreigners shouldnt be allowed to work in our little country,

Drew wrote

Thanks for that, you are entitled to your opinion, but I would say I was right, in my opinion. Originator would flatter him/her too much.

I would be inclined to agree that the original post on this subject is unlikely to win a Booker Prize but it is still the original post which makes V8 Passion the originator of this thread.

Like many of us on this forum I travel up and down this country and talk to many people who are quite happy to talk about this issue and are in general agreement with the originators views but generally do nothing about it.

V8 Passion has been prepared to raise the issue albeit in a fairly blunt way,
but has managed to arouse the passions of many forum members with nearly 600 comments and nearly 10000 hits in one month which should at least reflect the concerns of all involved. He has been prepared to take the flack from all and sundry in raising an issue that the liberal left will claim is racist but whilst this topic has gone around many diversions from the posts I have read nobody has made any comments worse than asking for the government to look after its own.

Whilst I agree that there are many problems affecting this country we are very generous to countries the world over and donate billions in state aid etc but there are some occasions when we should look after our own. The general work situation from the East Coast Ports is dire trailer operators are still using foreign hauliers and shipping companies faced with a downturn in container traffic are now using the rules of supply and demand to reduce rates. Selling up is not an option as truck prices have dropped so far that many are now in negative equity with their trucks (The size of the company doesn`t matter) and many will go bust they will have no options and very little chance of work.

This situation is now raising its ugly head in other industries and was discussed this morning on Talksport radio on the Adrian Goldberg show. Ironically the discussion mirrored the pattern that this forum has taken.

So Drew as I said not booker prize material but a very important topic for discussion.

[drew128]

annitram:

V8 Passion:
Who thinks when work is short the foreigners shouldnt be allowed to work in our little country,

Drew wrote

Thanks for that, you are entitled to your opinion, but I would say I was right, in my opinion. Originator would flatter him/her too much.

I would be inclined to agree that the original post on this subject is unlikely to win a Booker Prize but it is still the original post which makes V8 Passion the originator of this thread.

Like many of us on this forum I travel up and down this country and talk to many people who are quite happy to talk about this issue and are in general agreement with the originators views but generally do nothing about it.

V8 Passion has been prepared to raise the issue albeit in a fairly blunt way,
but has managed to arouse the passions of many forum members with nearly 600 comments and nearly 10000 hits in one month which should at least reflect the concerns of all involved. He has been prepared to take the flack from all and sundry in raising an issue that the liberal left will claim is racist but whilst this topic has gone around many diversions from the posts I have read nobody has made any comments worse than asking for the government to look after its own.

Whilst I agree that there are many problems affecting this country we are very generous to countries the world over and donate billions in state aid etc but there are some occasions when we should look after our own. The general work situation from the East Coast Ports is dire trailer operators are still using foreign hauliers and shipping companies faced with a downturn in container traffic are now using the rules of supply and demand to reduce rates. Selling up is not an option as truck prices have dropped so far that many are now in negative equity with their trucks (The size of the company doesn`t matter) and many will go bust they will have no options and very little chance of work.

This situation is now raising its ugly head in other industries and was discussed this morning on Talksport radio on the Adrian Goldberg show. Ironically the discussion mirrored the pattern that this forum has taken.

So Drew as I said not booker prize material but a very important topic for discussion.

Sorry about that then, I certainly did not want to originate any hate there. I have already discussed this most important topic pages ago, were it appeared to have reached its conclusion. It however was reignited by a couple of daft statements by the perpetrator of the thread which means I feel not feel the need not to be sensible about him anymore or his type, I did the same as you and defended his opinion to post such stuff ages ago in this thread and I really can’t be bothered to do that anymore.

I think its a most important subject and also very interesting, the last 3 years have been an eye opener to not getting anything right since I came back to live here. I signed off my last bit of UK PLC stuff yesterday, the tax man will give me a few grand back and I can be on my merry way, I am very happy now, so the problems of the UK and how it effects me are unimportant now.

Good luck with it…