English work

UK PROFESSIONAL DRIVERS FORUMS THE UK PROFESSIONAL DRIVERS FORUM (INTERACTIVE)
581

drew128:

annitram:

V8 Passion:
Who thinks when work is short the foreigners shouldnt be allowed to work in our little country,

Drew wrote

Thanks for that, you are entitled to your opinion, but I would say I was right, in my opinion. Originator would flatter him/her too much.

I would be inclined to agree that the original post on this subject is unlikely to win a Booker Prize but it is still the original post which makes V8 Passion the originator of this thread. :wink: :wink:

Like many of us on this forum I travel up and down this country and talk to many people who are quite happy to talk about this issue and are in general agreement with the originators views but generally do nothing about it.

V8 Passion has been prepared to raise the issue albeit in a fairly blunt way,
but has managed to arouse the passions of many forum members with nearly 600 comments and nearly 10000 hits in one month which should at least reflect the concerns of all involved. He has been prepared to take the flack from all and sundry in raising an issue that the liberal left will claim is racist but whilst this topic has gone around many diversions from the posts I have read nobody has made any comments worse than asking for the government to look after its own.

Whilst I agree that there are many problems affecting this country we are very generous to countries the world over and donate billions in state aid etc but there are some occasions when we should look after our own. The general work situation from the East Coast Ports is dire trailer operators are still using foreign hauliers and shipping companies faced with a downturn in container traffic are now using the rules of supply and demand to reduce rates. Selling up is not an option as truck prices have dropped so far that many are now in negative equity with their trucks (The size of the company doesn`t matter) and many will go bust they will have no options and very little chance of work.

This situation is now raising its ugly head in other industries and was discussed this morning on Talksport radio on the Adrian Goldberg show. Ironically the discussion mirrored the pattern that this forum has taken.

So Drew as I said not booker prize material but a very important topic for discussion. :unamused: :unamused: :unamused:

Sorry about that then, I certainly did not want to originate any hate there. I have already discussed this most important topic pages ago, were it appeared to have reached its conclusion. It however was reignited by a couple of daft statements by the perpetrator of the thread which means I feel not feel the need not to be sensible about him anymore or his type, I did the same as you and defended his opinion to post such stuff ages ago in this thread and I really can’t be bothered to do that anymore.

I think its a most important subject and also very interesting, the last 3 years have been an eye opener to not getting anything right since I came back to live here. I signed off my last bit of UK PLC stuff yesterday, the tax man will give me a few grand back and I can be on my merry way, I am very happy now, so the problems of the UK and how it effects me are unimportant now.

Good luck with it…

Good luck to you also Drew wherever your going were all going to need lots of it. :wink: :wink: :wink: :wink:

582

Another thread that has turned racist that the mods and admin have let go, when are they going to do their job instead of protecting their own sensitivities

583

drew128:
the tax man will give me a few grand back .

How dare you rip British taxpayer’s (that’s mean ME also!!!) of his hardly earned money, you dirty easterneuropean cabbage eater, who can’t use the toilet? :smiley: :smiley: :smiley:

Did you already grew your mustaches?

Don’t forget to side swap some vehicles on your way to Dover ;D :smiley: :smiley:

584

orys:

drew128:
the tax man will give me a few grand back .

How dare you rip British taxpayer’s (that’s mean ME also!!!) of his hardly earned money, you dirty easterneuropean cabbage eater, who can’t use the toilet? :smiley: :smiley: :smiley:

Did you already grew your mustaches?

Don’t forget to side swap some vehicles on your way to Dover ;D :smiley: :smiley:

Thats the nicest thing anyone has said to me in ages, thanks Orys. Driving in the Uk is too depressing, so I will exit at the nearest port which is Hull. I will not side swipe anything due to lack of insurance on my part, but as it will be dark I can annoy oncoming traffic with my headlights which don’t have defectors for LHD.

585

So you don’t have proper insurance! A-ha!!!

And your car is made from the halves of two others: I found a picture of your new polish estate car, which you sent me on PM some time ago… :laughing: :laughing: :laughing: :laughing:

586

Okey-Didley-Dokely:
Another thread that has turned racist that the mods and admin have let go, when are they going to do their job instead of protecting their own sensitivities

Personally I think although some of the posts have been on the xenophobic and racist side, those posting them have normally been short down by sharp wit. Others who agree with the sentiments of the original post have posted good construcive points of view, even though I disagree with most of what they are saying. :smiley:
But then maybe the ost should be allowed to drift down the page as really everthing on this subject and more has been covered at least once.

587

orys:
So you don’t have proper insurance! A-ha!!!

And your car is made from the halves of two others: I found a picture of your new polish estate car, which you sent me on PM some time ago… :laughing: :laughing: :laughing: :laughing:

I still got the other halves of the cars, so could glue you another up if you want. I like it, its a bit like a bendy bus. :smiley:

588

due to orys and all his cabbage eating friends i am leaving this forum!
and all the guardian liberal ■■■■!!

589

truckermarcus:
due to orys and all his cabbage eating friends i am leaving this forum!
and all the guardian liberal ■■■■!!

Oh Well! it’s a sad goodbye from me and some of my

cabbage eating

friends.

We’ll better get back to reading the Guardian.

590

if east eu drivers are earning the same wages as us here then we cant say to much,but i know for a fact they are tearing our european haulage to shreds,like i have said once before on here,i sat 2 days in italy waiting for a load back even though i was empty well before any other east eu contractor was,they got the reload 1st because they where cheaper,this came from the horses mouth from a known freight forwarder in east anglia,i bet i wasnt the only 1 either sitting about,so in some cases we have been shafted by the eu by opening up to many borders and letting in any cheap haulier from the east,for our domestic drivers this wasnt a problem but now the east eu companies are doing abit of cabotage watch out…if rates were the same for everybody then you could rely on how good you provided a service but with all the rate cutting thats going on and always has,the cheap hauliers will get the work because they dont pay proper wages.how can they??

591

Ken57,

I can see the point but unfortunately thats the way the cookie crumbles,
When you are looking to buy something, ie a tv, car or something, do most people not go for the best deal? The cheapest option?

I don’t like to say it but it comes down to cost in business if you can get it cheaper you are gonna take it, especially as we are now “officially in a recession”.

Because of the borders opening and different economies operating at different levels, ours being a VERY expensive one we are no match when it comes to costs. We dont know for sure that our “fellow” eastern european drivers are working for bad money? Bad by our standards yes but is it the same costs of living in their respective countries? I dont think so? do they pay 15% VAT on goods? does a pint cost £3.00, is a loaf of bread £1.27?

I dont blame the drivers, they are just trying to make a living for their families.
Blame the Government for not having big enough balls to stand up and do something bout it.

592

Orys will know for certain but I believe VAT is 22% in Poland but there is a lower rate too.

However other posters have said that we are being shafted by the Poles, that must explain the reason I was loaded from France for Scotland twice last week yet there were half a dozen Hungarians waiting around for loads.

The reason? I was cheaper than them.

593

Clarky:
Ken57,

I can see the point but unfortunately thats the way the cookie crumbles,
When you are looking to buy something, ie a tv, car or something, do most people not go for the best deal? The cheapest option?

I don’t like to say it but it comes down to cost in business if you can get it cheaper you are gonna take it, especially as we are now “officially in a recession”.

Because of the borders opening and different economies operating at different levels, ours being a VERY expensive one we are no match when it comes to costs. We dont know for sure that our “fellow” eastern european drivers are working for bad money? Bad by our standards yes but is it the same costs of living in their respective countries? I dont think so? do they pay 15% VAT on goods? does a pint cost £3.00, is a loaf of bread £1.27?

I dont blame the drivers, they are just trying to make a living for their families.
Blame the Government for not having big enough balls to stand up and do something bout it.

I think this post sums it all up for me, people what it all cheaper and cheaper, I suspect if a family of 4 were side swiped off the road so that you got the TV of your dreams for a great price, you would not care. The government seem hell bent on making life as hard for UK trucks as it can, while allowing everyone else to pop over when ever they want for the bargain price of nowt if yer tanks are big enough.

If your looking at foreign trucks or foreign labour in this country then its the government at fault each time, period.

The success of lets say Polish trucking into the UK, is not based on the drivers getting low wages, maybe Orys can help back me up on this, but a truck driver would possible be considered a good wage in Poland. Its just a fact that taxation and costs are much cheaper by and large for transport companies, although I suspect the paperwork is a bit grim :smiley:

White goods are more expensive in Poland, I often buy in Denmark and bring stuff home and VAT is 22%, but basics, food, building materials, the stuff you really need is very cheap for us, but compared to a Polish wage not really.

My experience of the Poles from marrying one and living in Poland, is the work ethic is much higher, when we go the extra mile, thats just normal for them, anything we do and sweat a bit is easy for them.

I feel I now live in a country with a bit of a vibe, by and large it feels its on the up, but were a lot of tradition is still applied, a good set of morals that the young ones seem to adhere too. Its by far the best country I have lived in, great food, people are pretty friendly, beautiful countryside, the list could go on for me, but also a tough country in many ways and I know for some its much harder. If you think of Poland as some dirty almost 3rd world kinda place, then you may just need to spin that around a bit and apply that to somewhere nearer home. :frowning:

594

Clarky:
Because of the borders opening and different economies operating at different levels, ours being a VERY expensive one we are no match when it comes to costs. We dont know for sure that our “fellow” eastern european drivers are working for bad money? Bad by our standards yes but is it the same costs of living in their respective countries? I dont think so? do they pay 15% VAT on goods? does a pint cost £3.00, is a loaf of bread £1.27?

Funny thing is that:

  • Loaf of bread costs about 50p in Poland
  • Beer in PUB (and not pint but proper 0.5 l size) costs about a 1-1.20
  • VAT is 22%, but some products have lower VAT, some are extempt.

You can rent a two rooms flat (about 50 sqare meters) in my city for about 350 pounds per month, and it’s in good area.

But salaries for lorry drivers aren’t as bad even if you are looking at it from here: AFAIK 6000 zł per month it’s nothing unusual and it’s about 1200 pounds per month. Notice that it’s much better than poor Macka Packa earns here…

595

drew128:
If your looking at foreign trucks or foreign labour in this country then its the government at fault each time, period.

I am fully agree. I am foreign worker myself, but I can’t understand some things goverment is doing here…

The success of lets say Polish trucking into the UK, is not based on the drivers getting low wages, maybe Orys can help back me up on this, but a truck driver would possible be considered a good wage in Poland. Its just a fact that taxation and costs are much cheaper by and large for transport companies, although I suspect the paperwork is a bit grim :smiley:

Yeah. And I don’t know how it’s looks in here, but I noticed that road tax for the lorry is often much less than I have to pay for my car…

In Poland you have road tax included in fuel price, but if you have a heavy vehicle (big lorry or bus) you still have to pay another tax from that, and you still havd to buy a vignette to drive on Polish road until recently (and that was about 800 pounds per year) now they are changing that to some new system, now I am not up to date, but I know that there were a huge protests from hauliers…

Add to that loads of paperwork ( I was suprised how easy is live when I came to UK) and other stupid regulations (recently they introducted a stupid law that each company must hire or train a fireman - even if you are running snax van) you have to deal with that. I dare to tell that to be haulier in Poland it’s not a piece of cake.

White goods are more expensive in Poland, I often buy in Denmark and bring stuff home and VAT is 22%, but basics, food, building materials, the stuff you really need is very cheap for us, but compared to a Polish wage not really.

There is much more things which are relatively expensive in Poland - white goods, electronics, clothces, new cars (many friends of mine were buying new cars in Germany or Czech Republic) etc.

My experience of the Poles from marrying one and living in Poland, is the work ethic is much higher, when we go the extra mile, thats just normal for them, anything we do and sweat a bit is easy for them.

That’s also is a true. I was even annoyed plenty times in Britain. For exapmple I am at the gate for delivery, one hour drive from glasgow and I have a phone in my cab “come back to depot or you will be late”. I told them that I just arrived and will be unloaded in 5 minutes but no, you have to go back, you will come back there tomorow, as we won’t wait 10 minutes for you - so it’s better to waste 2 hours of lorry driving than to wait 10 minutes with closing the yard? In Poland something like that is impossible. And it’s only one of many examples…

British people respect themselves, and that’s good, but you must find some point where you respect yourself and you are still able to make a business and compete with the others. I don’t trying to tell, that Polish workers working 24/7 like slaves, that off course not true. But I never heard in Poland something what is very common here “I screw it and I am going home, I will do it next week or not” if there is 15 minutes work left or “I won’t rise my bum so early” or “I wanna be a lorry driver, but I will work only if that will be job of certain kind, only in this area, max 2 nights away, I will be driving new scania longline and my salary will be not less then 12 per hour”. Ok, it’s great to have perfect job, but in Poland if you can’t get it, you just taking something what it’s relatively close to your expectations, and just doing that, without moaning all the time that it’s the worst job you ever had…

Other thing is that people here seem to do not respect company property. Stealing goods from the company here is a common things - no matter if it’s taking rolls of toilet tissue home, driving a company van for private use without asking a boss, or just wasting time at work to do your own business.

I remember when I was worked for one company which had a lot to do with silicone I had to do something in my home, so I bought myself a can of silicone and I went to boss to ask if I can borrow a silicon gun. Everyone were thinking that I am some kind of idiot - there is so many silicon tubes lying arround warehouse, I just should take some home together with silicon gun like everyone else. I was seen as a complete moron again when I bring and returned silicon gun back. Maybe it’s strange for them, but I have my principles and I won’t change it only becouse everyone does that.

Other day my girl, who was working as a housekeeper one day told a workmate that she has to go to shops to buy some home cleaning detergents and she was told that she’s stupid and was given plenty of it from the cupboard. Altough she seen that everyone is taking plenty of that home (and in amounts showing that they have at least Buckingam Palace to clean every two days) she was feeling so guilty for that few bottles that she barely can sleep for next few days.

Altough, off course, such things happens also in Poland quite often, it’s not tolerated by majority, while here it’s something completely normal. Check the vans, which are like big driving litter bins, or guy who was annoyed that glovebox was opening all the time in my sprinter so he just break off it’s doors and throw it outside throught the window. When I protested he told me “don’t worry, it’s company van, I would not do it in your car”. I was quite shocked. And that’s my be a reason why most of vehicles I drive are in poor condition - it’s just no-one respecting them. Honestly: if you ask me if I want to drive average scottish 5 years old van or average polish 10 years old van, I would go for polish one.

I feel I now live in a country with a bit of a vibe, by and large it feels its on the up, but were a lot of tradition is still applied, a good set of morals that the young ones seem to adhere too. Its by far the best country I have lived in, great food, people are pretty friendly, beautiful countryside, the list could go on for me, but also a tough country in many ways and I know for some its much harder. If you think of Poland as some dirty almost 3rd world kinda place, then you may just need to spin that around a bit and apply that to somewhere nearer home. :frowning:

Off course Poland is not as good as drew, a newbie, sees it just now. While you will live there some time you will notice some downsides of things you mentioned - for example side effect of that people are livijng with tradition induct that amazing impact that catholic church have on everyone’s live etc. But I am sure that altough I really like UK and I really think that live here is much easier, I would like my kids to grow up in Poland or Czech Republic (if Poland still be so crazy country to live till then).

596

well tomorrow is my first day without work thanks to the foreigners…

597

orys:
Off course Poland is not as good as drew, a newbie, sees it just now. While you will live there some time you will notice some downsides of things you mentioned - for example side effect of that people are livijng with tradition induct that amazing impact that catholic church have on everyone’s live etc. But I am sure that altough I really like UK and I really think that live here is much easier, I would like my kids to grow up in Poland or Czech Republic (if Poland still be so crazy country to live till then).

I know this Orys, I am lucky in what i have in Poland is as good as it can be for me. Small friendly village next to a beautiful forest, simple pleasures really, a house thats paid for, lots of pluses, but I have done the queuing at banks and government offices, I can see a lots of other downsides, but what I do have out weighs all of this. Lets see if I still say this in a year or so :smiley:

598

V8 Passion:
well tomorrow is my first day without work thanks to the foreigners…

How is that then that all my polish lorry driving friends are still working, and it’s for decent wages?

I bet that you consider yourself better then they are, for sure you have better english, you are natively born in this country, know it’s rules and common laws… So what’s so good with them? Or, rather, what’s so wrong with you?

Don’t blame others for your own faults.

599

drew128:
I know this Orys, I am lucky in what i have in Poland is as good as it can be for me. Small friendly village next to a beautiful forest, simple pleasures really, a house thats paid for, lots of pluses, but I have done the queuing at banks and government offices, I can see a lots of other downsides, but what I do have out weighs all of this. Lets see if I still say this in a year or so :smiley:

I’ll give you some advice how to deal with that like Poles do. Treat all absurd and annoying things like some kind of funny folklor :slight_smile:

600

orys:

drew128:
I know this Orys, I am lucky in what i have in Poland is as good as it can be for me. Small friendly village next to a beautiful forest, simple pleasures really, a house thats paid for, lots of pluses, but I have done the queuing at banks and government offices, I can see a lots of other downsides, but what I do have out weighs all of this. Lets see if I still say this in a year or so :smiley:

I’ll give you some advice how to deal with that like Poles do. Treat all absurd and annoying things like some kind of funny folklor :slight_smile:

I have a bank account… did I choose this bank because of great interest rates or the nice colour of the credit cards, no I chose this bank because it had very comfortable seats to sit on and good heating, no other reasons at all :smiley: