Lets say you have a firetruck behind you and you need to move out the way.
If you go forward you will go past a red light camera and get flashed assuming there is no oncoming traffic of-course.
Do you go?
My assumption has always been that if any emergency services asks you to move you move but I’m not 100% sure on the law with this.
Also do they have to get out of the truck/police car and actually ask you or just flash their lights and sounds?
Hasn’t happened to me yet but no doubt it will sooner or later so what like to know da law.
Also what happens if you move out the way and oncoming traffic doesn’t hear/see the sirens and hits you? Who’s liable?
First thing that stands out to me is your last question.
Simple, do not drive into the path of oncoming vehicular activity thereby warding off the pòssible occasioning of alarm and distress to other roadusers .
If you gotta scoot across JUST through the lights (red) to make a hole for emergency services …I would do it. If you get fined with a flashy camera auto doggy thing, fight it in court and bring the families along of the people saved from the fire.
“Also do they have to get out of the truck/police car and actually ask you or just flash their lights and sounds?”
BWahahahahahah,
I’ve always tried to leave enough room for such events, more so when in the truck but I tend more to stay put with hazards on and let the others work around me…not much extra room can be made by an artic in a small gap and may end up making the situation worse
It’s a common sense thing. If it’s simply unsafe to make space, you just have to wait until it is safe. Without being able to discuss every scenario - take the red light one - moving into the path of other traffic would be dangerous in my opinion. But if you have enough room to be able to move out of the way without heading into the path of other traffic; but it means contravening the red light; you should be able to justify that if you get zapped by a camera.
As with everything, provided it is safe and justifiable.
Only a police officer can authorise you to go through on red.
That said however, a friend of mine got done by a camera going through a red to allow an ambulance through. He was advised to take it to court where they annulled his ticket. It was said in the magistrates that if there wasn’t an image of the emergency vehicle (of they changed to green in the meantime) he would have faced a fine.
Personally I think the law is an ■■■ in this situation but unfortunately common sense isn’t very forthcoming and so the courts had to decide.
el_presidente:
but it means contravening the red light; you should be able to justify that if you get zapped by a camera.
As with everything, provided it is safe and justifiable.
If you get zapped by a camera it means that you being watched by at least one camera. I would have thought that moving out the way of emergency services wouldn´t get you fined because you just produce the video, showing why you did what you did, they THEY shot that got you prosecuted in the first place.
Jeez, I dunno, adam277 comes home from Wetherspoons with a full load on, thinks of a contentious thread title, then ■■■■■ off to bed leaving us idiots to have a meaningful and productive discussion
If you break the law to let an emergency vehicle by and get caught …you will get done no ifs or buts …I know it isn’t right but that is what will happen ,I know it won’t sit right with 99% of people to sit at a red light with an emergency vehicle behind you with blues on ,the horn should be switched off ,but they are trained to deal with the situation …you get no leeway from the law you just get fined…So it is down to each individual how you deal with it ,if no cameras then feel free but if camera controlled lights,then let your concionse be your guide
norb:
If you break the law to let an emergency vehicle by and get caught …you will get done no ifs or buts …I know it isn’t right but that is what will happen ,I know it won’t sit right with 99% of people to sit at a red light with an emergency vehicle behind you with blues on ,the horn should be switched off ,but they are trained to deal with the situation …you get no leeway from the law you just get fined…So it is down to each individual how you deal with it ,if no cameras then feel free but if camera controlled lights,then let your concionse be your guide
I hear your point. The camera is the problem - I think most fixed penalty office staff would use discretion if you can make a case that what you did was reasonable and didn’t cause any danger.
Of course, you might then need to start thinking about speaking to the fire/ambulance/police control rooms to find out which unit you moved for so they could act as a witness in your defence…
But as you said, you should never be ‘forced’ to move; but equally you shouldn’t unnecessarily obstruct.
el_presidente:
I think most fixed penalty office staff would use discretion …
I doubt they even have that discretion as they are not the police or a magistrate and thus can’t decide on a case of law.
Norb’s point has come up several times on the TV in tne past and the police always say only they can allow it, presumably after blocking other traffic in your way. I doubt most have a video stream either so hard to prove you just moved a little bit.
In a car you can move sideways but in a truck just stay still and let cars move around you. Had to do it a few times and it always worked as they can shift.
This scenario was mentioned in another thread ages ago and it was said by an ES person that the emergency services in question ‘should’ not pressurise anyone to go through a red light and sit with blues on, no siren and then either wait or find their own way round lights ie opposite carriageway
Though we all know that some get irate if you don’t go through lights, been on end of that myself.
I’ll move if possible to one side but I will NOT go through a red light - camera or not !
As pointed out there has been cases of prosecution for doing what a driver thinks was the right thing but courts being as they are are switched off to real world
At least we still have emergency services in this country.
Pity Greece, that has seen thousands of Medical staff, Police, Firefighters, and other “Public Servants” all laid off at EU edict - whilst over a hundred people have now died in the fire that should have been nipped in the bud, or at least people evactuated to safety in plenty of time.
The Socialist government meanwhile - are trying to blame “any old made-up Arsonist” for causing the fire in the first instance,
along with “Irresponsible local people” - for putting up their own shacks, and outhouses - without proper planning authority.
NO.
Austerity bites deeply into our public services - we must NOT end up like Greece here - “Got a problem? - Just go home and wait for the end there.”
We living in Austere times - because we’ve given too much away, not just to the EU, but to the rest of the world in “Foreign Aid” as well.
We’re lucky we have NICs, council tax, etc. What is needed now is to “broaden the Net” rather than just causually “raise the rate” as Hammond would have it at the next budget…
It is all too easy to be “entitled to everything” and “always be an expert in how to claim everything” - when your group, be they very top or very bottom - doesn’t get to pay the big tax burden that instead will be levied upon us PAYE folk.
Going through a red light at low speed to allow emergency vehicles to pass and then trying to argue your card at court wouldn’t end successfully.
There was a case maybe 10 years ago, camera even showed ambulance behind a car who moved 10 feet across stop line and triggered camera. Fine and points stood.
So, no, I wouldn’t move in such circumstance.
I only read the original post, not the whole thread, but this is my opinion.
After reading more than once about people being fined and losing appeals for this very thing, I would never move an inch for blue lights in a red-light scenario. The appeal cases I mentioned argued their case and were told “emergency service vehicle drivers are trained to go round traffic”. That’s all you need to know. So don’t ever cave to the pressure. Just sit there.
trevHCS:
I doubt most have a video stream either so hard to prove you just moved a little bit.
Got caught encroaching into a bus lane to let an ambulance, running on active blue lights, pass & took an age to get it annulled with the use of the same video taken at the time. The notice is issued without any human involvement, as far as I can see, and the time and agrevation it took to get the annulment pretty much made my mind up never to cross a red light to let a blue light vehicle pass, more so in a lorry.
trevHCS:
I doubt most have a video stream either so hard to prove you just moved a little bit.
Got caught encroaching into a bus lane to let an ambulance, running on active blue lights, pass & took an age to get it annulled with the use of the same video taken at the time. The notice is issued without any human involvement, as far as I can see, and the time and agrevation it took to get the annulment pretty much made my mind up never to cross a red light to let a blue light vehicle pass, more so in a lorry.
I suppose if you could move into the bus lane so could the emergency vehicle. They’re going to find it easier to argue the matter when the nip turns up.
If it is SAFE then move out the way (Ignore legal)
No driver will get prosecuted for it unless for some odd reason the ticket is not deleted at source so in really rare cases the driver takes it to court to get it deleted
That is the reality
If it was one of your nearest and dearest needing that blue lighter and every second counted would you block its progress and cause them to possibly die when you could SAFELY move out of the way - only a selfish driver would not move in my opinion
After some of the performances I have witnessed this week with drivers, I would prefer the emergency vehicle to go round the car rather than vice versa, car drivers ending up hitting other cars reversing, knocking a fence down and one car making a huge combine with a 42’ header on a trailer reverse on a country road, remember, ambulances, buses and fire appliances have cameras on board too
There is something in the highway code about this, also a traffic sargeant once imparted to me do not break the law to move out of the way,wait untill it’s safe and clear to do so.
I think it says move over to allow the emergency services to pass when it is safe and legal, or words to that effect
- only a selfish driver would not move in my opinion