Electric trucks - how's that going to work?

alamcculloch:
Burning wood in any form is absolutely stupid. Whether its in the form of logs or chip, wood has very little calorific value compared to coal. Coal has less value compared to oil. We are importing wood chip from America whilst we are an oil producing Nation. Whole scenario makes no sense.

Then they tell us that replacing the cut down mature trees with saplings makes no difference to the planet’s ability to convert CO2 into Oxygen.

Or nuclear is safe.

Or the increased water vapour from the increased use of steam turbines instead of burning oil in internal combustion engines won’t add to greenhouse effect.

Or we aren’t actually going to cap the oil wells and gas fields.It’s just that the fossil fuel supplies are going to be reserved for ‘developing countries’ like China. :unamused:

They are simply liars.

Carryfast:

Roymondo:
Carryfast, do you actually have a basic understanding of the water cycle?

Go on - Google it and then consider what you posted…

Here’s a clue the natural water cycle can’t account for artificially heating water to drive generator turbines that’s then equally artificially released as vapour into the atmosphere by cooling towers.Water which otherwise wouldn’t exist naturally in a gaseous state and thereby creating a man made greenhouse effect.

I’ll take that as a “No” then.

Oh - and FYI the water that’s heated to drive the turbines doesn’t get released as vapour - it is condensed and returned to be heated again. But I’m sure you knew that.

Roymondo:

Carryfast:

Roymondo:
Carryfast, do you actually have a basic understanding of the water cycle?

Go on - Google it and then consider what you posted…

Here’s a clue the natural water cycle can’t account for artificially heating water to drive generator turbines that’s then equally artificially released as vapour into the atmosphere by cooling towers.Water which otherwise wouldn’t exist naturally in a gaseous state and thereby creating a man made greenhouse effect.

I’ll take that as a “No” then.

Oh - and FYI the water that’s heated to drive the turbines doesn’t get released as vapour - it is condensed and returned to be heated again. But I’m sure you knew that.

Yeah right.The full house of global warmist stupidity and lies right here.
Let’s burn live trees instead of dead ones thereby taking out the planet’s ability to turn CO2 into Oxygen and massively increase electricity demand based on the lie that water vapour isn’t a greenhouse gas and cooling towers don’t emit massive amounts of water vapour. :unamused:

telegraph.co.uk/travel/desti … er-station

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golfech_N … ropped.jpg

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dampierre … rPlant.JPG

So tell us why does Global Warmist nut Sturgeon have an economic policy for Scotland based on ongoing fossil fuel production.

Also why is China trying to take over fossil fuel reserves in the South China Sea.

Why is Australia going nuclear while it sends its coal to China.

Massachusetts to ban the sale of new combustion engine vehicles by 2035 Posted January 5, 2021 by Charles Morris & filed under Newswire, The Vehicles. Massachusetts Governor Charlie Baker has issued a new mandate that all new cars sold in the state be electric by 2035.

Guess they’ll ban diesel trucks next. :cry:

remy:
Massachusetts to ban the sale of new combustion engine vehicles by 2035 Posted January 5, 2021 by Charles Morris & filed under Newswire, The Vehicles. Massachusetts Governor Charlie Baker has issued a new mandate that all new cars sold in the state be electric by 2035.

Guess they’ll ban diesel trucks next. :cry:

Guess they’ll be going hungry then :unamused:

People just don’t get it do they, once everything is powered transported and heated by electricity only, they are then a captive market, a market that can charge anything it likes and which the govt of the day will tax till your pips squeak, those who live out in the sticks who will do as they always have done, completely ignore the lunacy of politicians.

Juddian:
a market that can charge anything it likes and which the govt of the day will tax till your pips squeak,

Ah yes, imagine that. Utterly terrifying. :unamused:

switchlogic:

Juddian:
a market that can charge anything it likes and which the govt of the day will tax till your pips squeak,

Ah yes, imagine that. Utterly terrifying. :unamused:

Yes at 21 cents per kwh at present before they even start the scam v $2.5 per US Gallon containing 33 kwh absolutely terrifying.Forget about using the air con or heater. :unamused:

youtu.be/diiqsmpZEeY?t=57

If you can keep awake ?, it may be of interest to some.

The first comment on the video by Nigel Morley hit the nail right on the head though.

Carryfast:
Yeah right.The full house of global warmist stupidity and lies right here.
Let’s burn live trees instead of dead ones thereby taking out the planet’s ability to turn CO2 into Oxygen and massively increase electricity demand based on the lie that water vapour isn’t a greenhouse gas and cooling towers don’t emit massive amounts of water vapour. :unamused:

I’m still unsure whether you actually believe the drivel you post or if it’s simple trolling to elicit a reaction so you can post even more of it, but for the time being at least I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt and attempt to answer some of the questions you have posed and refute your arguments.

First off, it’s maybe worth pointing out that trees don’t Simply “convert carbon dioxide into oxygen” - what they do is take carbon dioxide, water and sunlight to produce glucose and oxygen. The carbon doesn’t magically disappear, but is retained to (among other things) produce the structure of the plant. When the tree sheds its leaves or eventually dies, that carbon is returned to the environment, mostly in the form of CO2 (i.e carbon dioxide) excreted by the organisms that carry out the decomposition process or feed on the leaves etc. In other words, the carbon is in effect stored up for the lifetime of the tree until such time as it eventually rots (or is burnt), then it pops out again.

A variation on this scenario is the production of coal etc. In this situation, the carbon is not returned to the environment but is instead “locked up” underground in the form of “fossil fuels”. This process takes a very long time - hundreds of millions of years, but the resulting coal, oil etc is a very good energy source (which is why we burn it).

It’s also worth noting that carbon dioxide released into the atmosphere stays there for a very long time indeed - typically hundreds, or even thousands of years. One of the reasons for this is that the only ways to get rid of it (however temporarily) are through the trees, plants etc and by dissolving it in the oceans. Problem being that the oceans are right at the bottom of the various layers of the atmosphere and the trees only extend a little but further up. The vast majority of the atmosphere (especially the bits where that pesky CO2 is doing its greenhouse gas stuff) is totally devoid of oceans and trees. In contrast, water vapour generally condenses out as rain/snow within a few days. As a result, most of the CO2 that has been artificially released into the environment since the beginning of the Industrial Revolution is still there, doing its greenhouse gas thing.

The above answers your question about burning “dead trees” (i.e. coal) versus burning live ones. The first option releases huge quantities of hitherto “dormant” carbon (in the form of carbon dioxide) into the environment, while the latter recycles carbon that was already in the environment anyway. The carbon in that coal was stored away hundreds of millions of years ago, over a period of many tens of millions of years. By burning it we are releasing it into the atmosphere, where it stays for a very, very long time.

Now to water vapour. Yes, it’s a “greenhouse gas” in that it affects global temperature and climate in a significant way. However, unlike pretty well any other “greenhouse gas” it doesn’t persist in the atmosphere - any water vapour released into the air today will have condensed out in the form of precipitation within a week or two. But here’s the killer fact - water evaporates into the atmosphere from the oceans at a rate of roughly a billion tons every minute. Significantly that’s also the rate at which it condenses back into rainfall, thus maintaining equilibrium. The amount of water vapour released by the cooling towers of 60-odd thousand power stations is completely and utterly irrelevant by comparison (especially as that tiny amount also condenses out again within a few days).

As for your questions about Wee Jimmie Krankie’s and Australia’s economic policies - no idea. Have you asked them?

Roymondo:

Carryfast:
I’m still unsure whether you actually believe the drivel you post or if it’s simple trolling to elicit a reaction so you can post even more of it, but for the time being at least I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt and attempt to answer some of the questions you have posed and refute your arguments.

First off, it’s maybe worth pointing out that trees don’t Simply “convert carbon dioxide into oxygen” - what they do is take carbon dioxide, water and sunlight to produce glucose and oxygen. The carbon doesn’t magically disappear, but is retained to (among other things) produce the structure of the plant. When the tree sheds its leaves or eventually dies, that carbon is returned to the environment, mostly in the form of CO2 (i.e carbon dioxide) excreted by the organisms that carry out the decomposition process or feed on the leaves etc. In other words, the carbon is in effect stored up for the lifetime of the tree until such time as it eventually rots (or is burnt), then it pops out again.

A variation on this scenario is the production of coal etc. In this situation, the carbon is not returned to the environment but is instead “locked up” underground in the form of “fossil fuels”. This process takes a very long time - hundreds of millions of years, but the resulting coal, oil etc is a very good energy source (which is why we burn it).

It’s also worth noting that carbon dioxide released into the atmosphere stays there for a very long time indeed - typically hundreds, or even thousands of years. One of the reasons for this is that the only ways to get rid of it (however temporarily) are through the trees, plants etc and by dissolving it in the oceans. Problem being that the oceans are right at the bottom of the various layers of the atmosphere and the trees only extend a little but further up. The vast majority of the atmosphere (especially the bits where that pesky CO2 is doing its greenhouse gas stuff) is totally devoid of oceans and trees. In contrast, water vapour generally condenses out as rain/snow within a few days. As a result, most of the CO2 that has been artificially released into the environment since the beginning of the Industrial Revolution is still there, doing its greenhouse gas thing.

The above answers your question about burning “dead trees” (i.e. coal) versus burning live ones. The first option releases huge quantities of hitherto “dormant” carbon (in the form of carbon dioxide) into the environment, while the latter recycles carbon that was already in the environment anyway. The carbon in that coal was stored away hundreds of millions of years ago, over a period of many tens of millions of years. By burning it we are releasing it into the atmosphere, where it stays for a very, very long time.

Now to water vapour. Yes, it’s a “greenhouse gas” in that it affects global temperature and climate in a significant way. However, unlike pretty well any other “greenhouse gas” it doesn’t persist in the atmosphere - any water vapour released into the air today will have condensed out in the form of precipitation within a week or two. But here’s the killer fact - water evaporates into the atmosphere from the oceans at a rate of roughly a billion tons every minute. Significantly that’s also the rate at which it condenses back into rainfall, thus maintaining equilibrium. The amount of water vapour released by the cooling towers of 60-odd thousand power stations is completely and utterly irrelevant by comparison (especially as that tiny amount also condenses out again within a few days).

As for your questions about Wee Jimmie Krankie’s and Australia’s economic policies - no idea. Have you asked them?

After all that bs the inconvenient fact remains that water vapour is a more effective green house gas than CO2 in fact it’s THE most effective greenhouse gas.

So trees do exactly the same job of locking up carbon as leaving fossil fuels in the ground does.With the bonus that burning fossil fuel instead of trees means that we also maintain the Oxygen conversion that dead trees won’t provide and more heat energy per tonne burnt.

Surely as a fellow anti fossil fuel zealot you’d also want an answer to the question as to why would one of your politicians want to base her policies on the ongoing production of fossil fuel.Among other similar examples.Here’s a clue no one is capping any oil or gas fields any time soon and coal is still being burnt.To which your answer is no idea.Which fits the rest of your anti fossil fuel ranting bollox.

The only environmental terrorist trolls here are those who think that a fuel source costing 16p per kwh + Road fuel duty and VAT at 20% is economically sustainable.
While burning live trees instead of dead ones and inevitable nuclear disaster sooner or later and filling the skies with more artificially created water vapour is supposedly better for our environment than burning coal and oil and gas. :unamused:

CO2 since the industrial revolution.Oh wait currently still standing at around 0.04% of the atmosphere and the winters of 1963 and 1982 for just two examples among later ones being the result.

The truth is all of the supposed CO2 increase that has taken place can be explained by man made deforestation especially when the corresponding decrease in Oxygen levels is taken into account.Your answer being lets burn a lot more trees and leave fossil fuel in the ground. :unamused:

You do realise there are other ways to generate electricity besides tree burning and nuclear.

Rich_T:
You do realise there are other ways to generate electricity besides tree burning and nuclear.

Such as what when the wind isn’t blowing ?.

‘‘Sustainable Biomass’’ yeah right.
energylivenews.com/2020/05/2 … power-mix/

powermag.com/uk-undergoing-r … eneration/

Let’s burn live trees instead of dead ones.Oh wait let’s also cover the fields in solar panels.So yet more dead plant life when its sun light and water supply is cut off and interfered with.Then what happens to the soil when plant roots and mulch dies.Sterile dead dust bowl.In addition to resulting reduced ability of the planet to convert CO2 to Oxygen added to the burning trees. :unamused:

world-nuclear.org/informatio … ngdom.aspx

‘‘Opponents of nuclear power misread the science it is safe and reliable’’. :unamused:

There’s nothing green about anti fossil fuel zealots.Tree burning, soil wrecking, nuke loving fools.
In exchange for which not only do we get a more dangerous, less green, fuel we pay 16p per kwh + road fuel taxes for the privilege.

I wish that we would develop hydro power in its many forms. The tides are reliable and predictable, unlike wind energy.

alamcculloch:
I wish that we would develop hydro power in its many forms. The tides are reliable and predictable, unlike wind energy.

Tidal movement happens at a glacial pace with large periods of slack water going nowhere fast between.

Which probably explains bio mass, nuke, wind, solar, gas anything but tidal.

Which just leaves the question what really happens to the environment if/when these zealots and get rich quick scammers shut down gas after coal and move road transport to all electric fuelling especially on days when the wind doesn’t blow. :unamused:
It’s obvious that we’re facing a tree burning, soil erosion, Oxygen depleting and nuke nightmare.While also adding massive amounts of the more effective greenhouse gas of water vapour if they get their way.Even if we could afford 16p per kwh + road fuel taxes.

There is about one hour of slack water at the top and bottom of tidal activity. When the Thames for instance goes off (as it were )the Trent will still be active. When I see all of that water surging in and out of places like Montrose Basin I just want to see it (the energy) put to use.

Put a system of barriers up to hold high water until needed. Or use surplus energy to pump water higher, again it’s stored energy.
There is a lot of capital cost to barrages and concrete is a source of CO2 but once built it is long lasting and clean.
Not without issues but looks good for an island such as ours.

There is one of those systems upand running in Scotland ,Ben Cruachan, the hollow mountain. Its near Oban if any one wants to look ,after the pandemic of course.

Carryfast:

switchlogic:

Juddian:
a market that can charge anything it likes and which the govt of the day will tax till your pips squeak,

Ah yes, imagine that. Utterly terrifying. :unamused:

Yes at 21 cents per kwh at present before they even start the scam v $2.5 per US Gallon containing 33 kwh absolutely terrifying.Forget about using the air con or heater. :unamused:

I know it’s a great sorrow in your life but sorry you don’t live in America.

Awaits inevitable rant about a stolen election and Chinese agent Chairman Joe

Carryfast:
It’s obvious that we’re facing a tree burning, soil erosion, Oxygen depleting and nuke nightmare.While also adding massive amounts of the more effective greenhouse gas of water vapour if they get their way.Even if we could afford 16p per kwh + road fuel taxes.

Well look on the bright side Carryfast old chap, you’ll be dead soon so don’t need to worry about it.

Franglais:
Put a system of barriers up to hold high water until needed. Or use surplus energy to pump water higher, again it’s stored energy.
There is a lot of capital cost to barrages and concrete is a source of CO2 but once built it is long lasting and clean.
Not without issues but looks good for an island such as ours.

Strange how London hasn’t chosen to combine tidal turbines using the Thames Barrier to do exactly that to power the place if it worked.

The idea of using something along the lines of deep water type drilling rigs and just use hollow pipe sections, like used for drilling, sealed with a remote valve which can be opened at the bottom, is way better.
You’ve then got a 1-2,000 metre air filled tube which you can connect to an air turbine at the top then open it up to a free 100-200 bar air compressor in the form of the sea pressure at that depth as it fills.
Lift/Drain/Submerge repeat x as many rigs as you want.
Cable some of the power ashore use the rest to create hydrogen from sea water.
I’ll then go with hydrogen fuelled ICE.
Which will probably at least create less water vapour than bio mass and nuke power station cooling towers.With the bonus that the trees and plants/grass and with them our oxygen supply survives and you don’t turn half of the country into another Chernobyl.