Wheel Nut:
I question things from the bottom up so to speak, to quote an old friend of mine, “Its all to do with a little Arab man with the barrel of oil.”
How So?
This oil is transported across the world in Electric Driven ships. (Nuclear)
This oil is pumped off the ship using electric powered pumps.
it is heated by electric or GAS.
From this oil, they make bitumen, tarmacadam and roads,
Roads need something that is less damaging than steel tracks or rims. Tyres perhaps.
Tyres are a by product of oil
Plastics are used to make cars. A by product of oil. Dashboards, Wipers. Trim.
Diesel, Paraffin, Jet Fuel and Petrol are made from Oil
Steel is made with huge amounts of heat, from, oil or gas.
You also need oil or gas to melt the sand that the oil is hidden beneath. (Glass)
So if we all buy electric lorries and cars, we will still need a barrel of oil from the little Arab man!
Electric has to be generated by burning, coal, oil, gas or cat litter.
Questioning your post, “from the bottom up” as you do:
“Electric has to be generated by burning, coal, oil, gas or cat litter. ”
Is not true. Electricity is being increasingly produced from wind, tide, sunlight, as well as existing nuclear.
So your foundation is very shaky.
Plastics can be replaced with different materials. bbc.com/future/article/2019 … ce-plastic
Certainly not overnight, but it is happening.
If there is not enough polymer as a refinery byproduct for tyres or roads then other materials will be found and used.
Fossil fuel is no longer needed for even aircraft euractiv.com/section/aviati … er-the-uk/
The current planes, using batteries, aren`t too good, but they are designed to be using hydrogen fuel cells, and when cleared for that will be much better.
Will fossil fuels become redundant overnight? No.
But they will become less important over time.
The high cost of producing hydrogen relies on superheated steam, Nitrogen used for Freezing needs Heating. My oxygen generator in the bedroom needs a lot of power and will be unbearable in summer with the heat it expels.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
The superheated steam is used in getting hydrogen from natural gas isn`t it?
Electrolysis will produce hydrogen from water. So long as the electricity is produced from a sustainable source that looks to be the way to go.
Hydrogen is a difficult gas to store, transport, and distribute, so theer are problems, but it does look like a good course to pursue.
If you havent got aircon, put a fridge in your bedroom and leave its door open. Supplies a light to read by too!
TomCrin:
Probably been covered but what happens when the motorway or Dual carriage way is stationary due to an accident and there’s a 6 (or more) hr delay for traffic? Won’t the charge be depleted and waiting vehicles will be unable to even move or complete their journey?
All with flat batteries because they were using their heaters to keep warm at 16p per kwh + road fuel duty + VAT.
As opposed to the free ‘wasted’ heat provided by that inefficient idling petrol engine.
switchlogic:
Cue Carryfast ranting on about a treeless barren world after the nuclear holocaust
As opposed to climate change believers ranting on about preferring that than a bit of extra CO2 being turned into more oxygen by the trees, which they want to burn as ‘bio mass’.
Nuking the place is something else added to that.
The climate change lunatics are clearly being allowed to take over the asylum because a few people see a good profit in the resulting captive market,
Then you call it ‘green’.
TomCrin:
Probably been covered but what happens when the motorway or Dual carriage way is stationary due to an accident and there’s a 6 (or more) hr delay for traffic? Won’t the charge be depleted and waiting vehicles will be unable to even move or complete their journey?
They’d be in much the same position as a petrol car. EVs normally have a conventional car battery to power lights, radio etc and, just like a petrol car, it can run the sidelights for several hours without being topped up from the main traction batteries (or, in the case of a petrol car, by running the engine).
Here’s a clue all the electrics and the heater of a stationary idling conventional vehicle are powered by the alternator and the waste heat from the engine not the battery.
Are you suggesting that battery power alone can provide all that.BS.
Franglais:
So long as the electricity is produced from a sustainable source that looks to be the way to go.
Hydrogen is a difficult gas to store, transport, and distribute, so theer are problems, but it does look like a good course to pursue.
Any case that electricity can be produced sustainably for EV’s can be made just the same for hydrogen fuelled ICE vehicles.
Oh wait in all cases you’re going to end up with loads more water vapour in the atmosphere as a result from power station cooling towers and/or hydrogen combustion.Oh wait that’s a far worse greenhouse gas than CO2 and trees can’t convert it to Oxygen.Or at least the remaining trees not burnt for bio mass generation.
switchlogic:
Cue Carryfast ranting on about a treeless barren world after the nuclear holocaust
As opposed to climate change believers ranting on about preferring that than a bit of extra CO2 being turned into more oxygen by the trees, which they want to burn as ‘bio mass’.
Nuking the place is something else added to that.
The climate change lunatics are clearly being allowed to take over the asylum because a few people see a good profit in the resulting captive market,
Then you call it ‘green’.
I do love how you basically create things to be angry about I bet you’ve a Facebook page which is just you sharing angry memes don’t you?
Franglais:
What about big Arab men? Or big Texans, small Scots?
They can be any size they like at 12p per kwh including road fuel duty and VAT at 20%.That’s a better deal than the electricity snake oil salesmen are giving us.
No need to deforest and/or nuke the place for the privilege as a bonus.
Pro fossil fuel = safe/affordable/green who would have thought it.
TomCrin:
Probably been covered but what happens when the motorway or Dual carriage way is stationary due to an accident and there’s a 6 (or more) hr delay for traffic? Won’t the charge be depleted and waiting vehicles will be unable to even move or complete their journey?
They’d be in much the same position as a petrol car. EVs normally have a conventional car battery to power lights, radio etc and, just like a petrol car, it can run the sidelights for several hours without being topped up from the main traction batteries (or, in the case of a petrol car, by running the engine).
Here’s a clue all the electrics and the heater of a stationary idling conventional vehicle are powered by the alternator and the waste heat from the engine not the battery.
Are you suggesting that battery power alone can provide all that.BS.
Here’s another clue - If you get stuck on a Motorway for a few hours and switch off your engine and headlamps (as most people do), how long does the battery charge last?
TomCrin:
Probably been covered but what happens when the motorway or Dual carriage way is stationary due to an accident and there’s a 6 (or more) hr delay for traffic? Won’t the charge be depleted and waiting vehicles will be unable to even move or complete their journey?
They’d be in much the same position as a petrol car. EVs normally have a conventional car battery to power lights, radio etc and, just like a petrol car, it can run the sidelights for several hours without being topped up from the main traction batteries (or, in the case of a petrol car, by running the engine).
Here’s a clue all the electrics and the heater of a stationary idling conventional vehicle are powered by the alternator and the waste heat from the engine not the battery.
Are you suggesting that battery power alone can provide all that.BS.
What do we power the alternator with? I can see a future for electric cars doing short runs, but not for long distance work.
TomCrin:
Probably been covered but what happens when the motorway or Dual carriage way is stationary due to an accident and there’s a 6 (or more) hr delay for traffic? Won’t the charge be depleted and waiting vehicles will be unable to even move or complete their journey?
They’d be in much the same position as a petrol car. EVs normally have a conventional car battery to power lights, radio etc and, just like a petrol car, it can run the sidelights for several hours without being topped up from the main traction batteries (or, in the case of a petrol car, by running the engine).
Here’s a clue all the electrics and the heater of a stationary idling conventional vehicle are powered by the alternator and the waste heat from the engine not the battery.
Are you suggesting that battery power alone can provide all that.BS.
Just been reading through some of the CCC Carbon Budgets, Some interesting reading regards surface transport regards upcoming emissions taxation on fossil fuel cars saying there will have to be a bigger VED differential between zero emission vehicles & ICE vehicles.
Emissions will have to decrease by 78% by the end of this decade.
There is talk of MEGA chargers for all trucks Extra 2 tonne limit & extra length of 1 metre? to make room for batteries/FCEV/aero dynamics. theccc.org.uk/publication/a … nt-energy/
The artic truck market is assumed to contain a significant share of FCEV sales out
to 2050 reflecting the improved operational flexibility of FCEV.
However, as for all truck sizes, BEV using mega-chargers are the cost optimal
solution by 2050.
In this work we assume that long-haul artic trucks used almost exclusively on
motorways are given additional length allowance and truck operators are willing to
store hydrogen tanks on the artic trailer 3 . These changes add significant CAPEX to
the vehicle but significantly improve the operational capabilities. These changes
would significantly improve the uptake of zero-emission artics because the TCO of
long range artics is dominated by fuel costs not CAPEX. This means that once a
functioning zero-emission artic design is realised it could be bought by operators
quickly even without strong policy support as the TCO is very competitive.
Zero-emission trucks are given a 2-tonne additional weight allowance and zero-
emission buses and coaches a 1 tonne additional weight allowance to cover the
added weight of the zero-emission powertrain 2 . Battery powertrains, which are
much heavier than hydrogen powertrains benefit the most from this change.
Zero-emission long-haul articulated trucks are given an additional length allowance
(assumed here to be 1 meter) to allow for improved aerodynamic design and
increased volume for packaging of batteries and hydrogen tanks
Zero-emission fuels remain untaxed and fuel prices drop significantly from today
reflecting the benefits of smart grids in the ca
Oh wait in all cases you’re going to end up with loads more water vapour in the atmosphere as a result from power station cooling towers and/or hydrogen combustion. Oh, wait that’s a far worse greenhouse gas than CO2 and trees can’t convert it to Oxygen. Or at least the remaining trees not burnt for biomass generation.
So water vapour is a worse greenhouse gas than CO2?
Water vapour is water… H2O. You know - the stuff that helps plants grow.
Oh wait in all cases you’re going to end up with loads more water vapour in the atmosphere as a result from power station cooling towers and/or hydrogen combustion. Oh, wait that’s a far worse greenhouse gas than CO2 and trees can’t convert it to Oxygen. Or at least the remaining trees not burnt for biomass generation.
So water vapour is a worse greenhouse gas than CO2?
Water vapour is water… H2O. You know - the stuff that helps plants grow.
Carryfast nonsense rant incoming. Involving the EUSSR, China, Trump, ‘the left’ and just for good measure maybe he’ll drop a random Peter Shore reference in. (Though frankly it’s all random nonsense)
Oh wait in all cases you’re going to end up with loads more water vapour in the atmosphere as a result from power station cooling towers and/or hydrogen combustion. Oh, wait that’s a far worse greenhouse gas than CO2 and trees can’t convert it to Oxygen. Or at least the remaining trees not burnt for biomass generation.
So water vapour is a worse greenhouse gas than CO2?
Water vapour is water… H2O. You know - the stuff that helps plants grow.
Oh wait.It’s actually Earth’s most ‘abundant’ greenhouse gas’.In fact this planet would probably be as cold as bleedin Mars without it.
Actually it’s both water and CO2 that plants synthesise into Oxygen.Strange how CO2 is supposedly bad but filling the atmosphere with water vapour from cooling towers is good.
So let’s get this right the solution to non existent CO2 created ‘global warming’ is to burn living trees instead of dead ones thereby reducing the planet’s natural ability to turn CO2 into Oxygen.
Let’s add all the dangers of nuclear power to that and loads more water vapour from loads more cooling towers.That’ll fix it.
Carryfast, you are I’m sure aware that more trees are planted than cut down. Also the trees that are cut down have been planted for just that reason and it’s certainly not the case that we’ll run out of trees. Maybe down your way they fell established forests but not up here.
Roymondo:
Carryfast, do you actually have a basic understanding of the water cycle?
Go on - Google it and then consider what you posted…
Here’s a clue the natural water cycle can’t account for artificially heating water to drive generator turbines that’s then equally artificially released as vapour into the atmosphere by cooling towers.Water which otherwise wouldn’t exist naturally in a gaseous state and thereby creating a man made greenhouse effect.
Rich_T:
Carryfast, you are I’m sure aware that more trees are planted than cut down. Also the trees that are cut down have been planted for just that reason and it’s certainly not the case that we’ll run out of trees. Maybe down your way they fell established forests but not up here.
Trees take decades to grow.
We haven’t even yet made the large scale switch from direct fossil fuel use in transport to non fossil electricity generation.
We already know that biomass has massively replaced coal fired generation.
Are you seriously suggesting that tree removal rates will be exceeded by tree replacement and growth rates under that amount of demand.
Yes where ‘we’ are, being one of the most tree populated counties in the country, people are already rightly complaining about unexplained tree removal and the laughable explanations being given for it.
When the growth in biomass generation explains it perfectly.
The truth is the global warming agenda is all about burning live trees instead of dead ones combined with the potential lethality of nuclear energy.Oh and adding more water vapour to the atmosphere.
How bleedin green and non global warmist is that.
All to solve the non existent problem of the 0.04% CO2 component.Which is already on the lower margins of sustaining photosynthesis and with it our Oxygen supply.
Burning wood in any form is absolutely stupid. Whether its in the form of logs or chip, wood has very little calorific value compared to coal. Coal has less value compared to oil. We are importing wood chip from America whilst we are an oil producing Nation. Whole scenario makes no sense.
But in my previous house, I had one of those ‘green’ wood pellet boilers: installed by the previous occupant. It took an hour just to get the water in the central heating warm (only a one-up, two-down house), and could only run for 3 hours at a time. Great.
The fuel was pellets imported from Lithuania. They weren’t certified from renewable sources, and I couldn’t find any that were, or even any that were produced in the UK. I had a horrible feeling they were from clear-felled wild wood.
The Drax power station burns ‘renewable’ wood pellets, in place of the coal which lies all around it. The timber for this comes from temperate rain forest felled on the west coast of North America, trucked across the USA, processed on the east coast, taken across the Atlantic ocean by oil-burning bulk carrier, landed in Liverpool or Immingham, taken to Drax in Yorkshire by diesel train, and then burned.
It produces more CO2 per kW of electricity generated than coal does. But it is ‘green’ and qualifies for carbon credits.
It’s a struggle to see the environmental benefits, but clearly it is making lots of people rich and keeping the British miners on the dole which is what matters to the tories.
”
I bet you’ve a Facebook page which is just you sharing angry memes don’t you?