Roymondo:
But if we are talking about facts - the average car journey in the UK is less than 10 miles (It was 8.4 miles in pre-Covid times).
Oh wait how are car residual values based on an average mileage of 10k miles per year ?.
So the case for EV’s is based on 3,600 miles per year max and the idea that the electric supplier will pay you for the electricity you burn.
As opposed to 10k miles per year at 18p per kwh + road fuel duty + VAT at 20%.
Bearing in mind that a litre of petrol contains almost 10 kwh.
Oh and you’re going to burn our trees and/or eventually nuke the place for the privilege.
How do you arrive at 3,600 miles per year? Rhetorical question as I know how you did it. It’s the same logic process that says everyone does 800 miles each time they use the car and now says they only use it once per day. (Spoiler for the terminally dense: Stating that the average car journey is 8.4 miles doesn’t mean the average driver does only 8.4 miles per day, but I’m sure you knew that…)
Roymondo:
But if we are talking about facts - the average car journey in the UK is less than 10 miles (It was 8.4 miles in pre-Covid times).
Oh wait how are car residual values based on an average mileage of 10k miles per year ?.
So the case for EV’s is based on 3,600 miles per year max and the idea that the electric supplier will pay you for the electricity you burn.
As opposed to 10k miles per year at 18p per kwh + road fuel duty + VAT at 20%.
Bearing in mind that a litre of petrol contains almost 10 kwh.
Oh and you’re going to burn our trees and/or eventually nuke the place for the privilege.
How do you arrive at 3,600 miles per year? Rhetorical question as I know how you did it. It’s the same logic process that says everyone does 800 miles each time they use the car and (Spo now says they only use it once per day. (Spoiler for the terminally dense: Stating that the average car journey is 8.4 miles doesn’t mean the average driver does only 8.4 miles per day, but I’m sure you knew that…)
The whole "petrol vs electric " debate from a point of efficiency or cost or pollution is pretty much moot.
Wether you consider the pollution factor of petrol engines or not, it is a fact that we will run out of oil at some point. Wether that’s next year or in 200 years doesnt really matter. We will need an alternative at any rate. And knowing what damage burning fossil fuel does, why not convert to electric sooner, rather than later? Sure, at the moment, electric vehicles are expensive, and not yet more environmentally friendly. But that will come. Petrol has reached its pinnacle, and is a finite source. Electric is only just starting to be properly developed, and will get better.
As usual, the only people arguing against change and progress, are the old “I’m alright Jack, I dont care what happens after I’m dead” brigade…
trevHCS:
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Finally, there might be enough capacity coming in at certain points mostly in the south if England, but is there enough to spread it round country? That’s a lot of power to get from Hampshire to Scotland for example. Do we have enough pylons and substations for that?
Better build some power stations quick or we’re knackered.
You might remember a particularly windy few days last year, when the UK’s wind farms produced 33% of all electricity used on those days.
Well the wind farms in Scotland produced more than 100% of Scotlands demand, but most of it was shunted down to England as part of the 33% for the whole country.
So it would appear that we do have enough Pylons and substations, for shunting from Scotland to England. I expect electricity can travel in either direction
lancpudn:
I know many of you in here are familiar with technology, so I hope you can help me find some answers: I am thinking of replacing my electric car with a petrol car and have some questions in that regard.
I have heard that petrol cars can not refuel at home while you sleep? How often do you have to refill elsewhere? Is this several times a year? Will there be a solution for refueling at home in the future?
Which parts will I need service on and how often? The car salesman mentioned a box with gears in it. What is this and will I receive a warning with an indicator when I need to change gear?
Can I accelerate and brake with one pedal as I do today with my electric car?
Do I get fuel back when I slow down or drive downhill? I assume so, but need to ask to be sure.
The car I test drove seemed to have a delay from the time I pressed the accelerator pedal until it began to accelerate. Is that normal in petrol cars? It also seemed to have a slightly slow acceleration. Maybe there was a problem with the car I test drove?
We currently pay about 1 Norwegian kroner per mile to drive our electric car. I have heard that petrol can cost up to 10 times as much so I reckon we will lose some money in the beginning. We drive about 30,000 kilometers a year. Let’s hope more people will start using gasoline so prices go down.
Is it true that petrol is flammable? Should I empty the tank and store the petrol somewhere else while the car is in the garage?
Is there an automatic system to prevent gasoline from catching fire or exploding in an accident. What does this cost?
I understand that the main ingredient in gasoline is oil. Is it true that the extraction and refining of oil causes environmental problems as well as conflicts and major wars that over the last 100 years have cost millions of lives? Is there a solution to these problems?
I may have more questions later, but these are the most important ones to me at the moment. Thank you in advance for your reply.
And these questions were indeed asked 100 years ago when petrol and diesel arrived. Steam was king. It worked very well. However, business owners didn’t need much persuading or government tax breaks to see how powerful and efficient petrol and diesel were. It was an overnight game changer. Early adopters were rewarded with increased profits and productivity.
Electric was also in the running at the same time. It was judged to be inferior to steam power never mind fossil fuels.
I agree we need to find other sources of fuel that doesn’t cause huge environmental damage, wars and political instability.
I’m just not seeing how it’s going to work for trucks.
Your post pokes fun and offers zero answers. Do you have answers?
Roymondo:
18p per kWh? Most of the EV owners I know pay only a fraction of that - in fact they sometimes pay negative amounts for some parts of their overnight charges (yes, that’s correct - during some off-peak hours the electricity company pays them to take electricity). One friend even has a smart App which monitors the price every half hour to predict the “sweet spots” and adjust his charger accordingly.
Yeah right and I bet he’s also stacked 10 tonnes of batteries in the garden and wired up the domestic supply to them and thrown out his gas boiler and gone all electric to take more advantage of this give away electric energy bonanza.
Feel free to post which supposed supplier and which tarrif that you’re referring to.The only way that you’ll get a negative tarrif is if they massively increase it other times to get their money back.
But all those cheap batteries stacked in the shed will fix that.Who needs gas at 3p per kwh.
Remind me what happened to ‘economy’ 7 heating and night storage radiators.
Back in February there had already been 15 occasions this year when electricity prices were negative (due to strong winds) resulting in many users on flexible tariffs being paid to consume power.
Octopus Energy have a tariff specifically designed for EV users (Octopus Energy Go). They get 4 hours of electricity at 5p per kWh every night, and prices the rest of the day are around 14p per kWh (varies a bit according to postcode). Going a stage further, they do their “Agile” tariff where the price varies throughout the day, but crucially they let you know in advance so you can arrange your high loads (such as EV charging) to take advantage. This is where the potential for negative pricing comes from.
So they get 20kwh of electricity for 1p per kwh to fill up with.That’s the equivalent of 2 litres of Petrol.Where do they get the other 50 litres worth of energy from and for how much.
I’m on Octopus energy and I pay 16p per kwh + VAT maybe I should lie and tell em I’ve got an EV to reduce my electric bill.
So they get a surplus of electric when the wind blows what happens when we get a week or more of light winds.
If the Agile tarrif is that good then why aren’t people ditching gas and filling the shed with automotive type batteries which they can then obviously charge for peanuts if not a negative price ( whenever the wind blows ).
We all know that the green loons are using bio mass to replace coal fired generation which effectively means burning live trees instead of dead ones.
Nuclear is the other go to solution.
So as I said burning live trees which obviously not only increases CO2 but also decreases Oxygen and/or the inevitable nuclear disaster sooner or later.How bleeding green is that.
Carryfast:
So they get 20kwh of electricity for 1p per kwh to fill up with.That’s the equivalent of 2 litres of Petrol.Where do they get the other 50 litres worth of energy from and for how much.
You’ve lost the plot, mate. Who is using 50+ litres of petrol per day in their car? Presumably the same imaginary folk who are doing 600 miles every day…?
Carryfast:
So they get 20kwh of electricity for 1p per kwh to fill up with.That’s the equivalent of 2 litres of Petrol.Where do they get the other 50 litres worth of energy from and for how much.
You’ve lost the plot, mate. Who is using 50+ litres of petrol per day in their car? Presumably the same imaginary folk who are doing 600 miles every day…
We’re talking about the ‘cost’ of refuelling a car that does 10,000 miles per year.
What difference does it make whether it’s filled every day or every week of that year.
That’s going to take 300 gallons of petrol = 9 kwh per LITRE = 12,285 kwh at 16p per kwh = £1,965 + road fuel duty + VAT at 20% .
As opposed to £1,569 including road fuel duty and VAT at 20%.Or call it £2,275 at 20 mpg.
What use is overnight charging at home when at least some of that 10k miles will involve a considerable amount of longer runs.You know like visiting relatives or long day trips to the coast or countryside or touring holidays.
Remind me how do motorway services manage to get away with such silly fuel prices.
You’re also obviously by definition a tree burning and nuke power advocate so don’t even try to play the bs green card.
However if we’ve supposedly got all this supposed cheap plentiful electricity, which doesn’t mean chopping down trees and nuking the place, then what’s the problem with Hydrogen fuelled ICE powered vehicles.Obviously no need to haul loads of expensive heavy batteries around in that case.
But equally obviously less profit for the EV manufacturers and Battery manufacturers.
the nodding donkey:
The whole "petrol vs electric " debate from a point of efficiency or cost or pollution is pretty much moot.
Wether you consider the pollution factor of petrol engines or not, it is a fact that we will run out of oil at some point. Wether that’s next year or in 200 years doesnt really matter. We will need an alternative at any rate. And knowing what damage burning fossil fuel does, why not convert to electric sooner, rather than later? Sure, at the moment, electric vehicles are expensive, and not yet more environmentally friendly. But that will come. Petrol has reached its pinnacle, and is a finite source. Electric is only just starting to be properly developed, and will get better.
As usual, the only people arguing against change and progress, are the old “I’m alright Jack, I dont care what happens after I’m dead” brigade…
Strange how you’re happy to selectively lumber future generations with a treeless and/or nuked wasteland.
So we are supposedly running out of fossil fuel which is the usual anti ICE bs fall back argument.How when we’re sitting on 1,000 year’s worth of coal.Which can also be turned into CTG and GTL fuels.
What difference does it make if we use it sooner rather than later.
None of this EV crusade involves capping any oil wells or gas fields any time soon.Which makes that whole argument moot.
So what’s your problem with Hydrogen fuelled ICE powered vehicles regardless ?.You think lugging loads of needless, expensive, environmentally unfriendly, batteries around is progress.
Do the green people have a strategy for the spent batteries ? The rare minerals lithium etc are also going to run out in the near future. E.V.s are only a partial solution to the problem.
Ha. The latest Carryfast obsession! Electric vehicles are going to lumber future generations with a tree-less nuclear wasteland. See how many times he can mention this obsession before he’s bored of it and moves on to…I dunno…‘the EUSSR are responsible for…*
Carryfast:
So what’s your problem with Hydrogen fuelled ICE powered vehicles regardless ?.You think lugging loads of needless, expensive, environmentally unfriendly, batteries around is progress.
Hydrogen was invented by and is controlled by the Chinese. But then you would be a fan, since you are such a great CCP fan. Traitor.
Carryfast:
We’re talking about the ‘cost’ of refuelling a car that does 10,000 miles per year.
What difference does it make whether it’s filled every day or every week of that year.
That’s going to take 300 gallons of petrol = 9 kwh per LITRE = 12,285 kwh at 16p per kwh = £1,965 + road fuel duty + VAT at 20% .
As opposed to £1,569 including road fuel duty and VAT at 20%.Or call it £2,275 at 20 mpg.
Your calculations appear to ignore the (in)efficiency of both types. Your petrol car is roughly 25% efficient (and that’s being generous) at converting the energy stored in the petrol into useful effort at the wheels, so only 3,070 of that 12,285 kWh figure is actually used in moving the car - the majority being simply dumped as waste heat. Since the EV is roughly 80% efficient, it will need to be charged with less than 4000 kWh. Even at 16p per kWh (which no sane EV owner will be paying most of the time anyway) that’s £640…
But why muck about with all these calculations to convert gallons of petrol to and from kWh of electricity? The consumption figures are freely available and show that the EVs can cover between 3 (for the big, heavy cars such as Mercedes, Jaguar and Tesla X) and 5 (for eg the Hyundai Ionic) miles for every kWh. Even the worst of them, using 16p per kWh electricity (which no sane owner would routinely be paying) will be using well under £600 of electricity to cover that 10,000 miles.
Carryfast:
We’re talking about the ‘cost’ of refuelling a car that does 10,000 miles per year.
What difference does it make whether it’s filled every day or every week of that year.
That’s going to take 300 gallons of petrol = 9 kwh per LITRE = 12,285 kwh at 16p per kwh = £1,965 + road fuel duty + VAT at 20% .
As opposed to £1,569 including road fuel duty and VAT at 20%.Or call it £2,275 at 20 mpg.
Your calculations appear to ignore the (in)efficiency of both types. Your petrol car is roughly 25% efficient (and that’s being generous) at converting the energy stored in the petrol into useful effort at the wheels, so only 3,070 of t hat 12,285 kWh figure is actually used in moving the car - the majority being simply dumped as waste heat. Since the EV is roughly 80% efficient, it will need to be charged with less than 4000 kWh. Even at 16p per kWh (which no sane EV owner will be paying most of the time anyway) that’s £640…
But why muck about with all these calculations to convert gallons of petrol to and from kWh of electricity? The consumption figures are freely available and show that the EVs can cover between 3 (for the big, heavy cars such as Mercedes, Jaguar and Tesla X) and 5 (for eg the Hyundai Ionic) miles for every kWh. Even the worst of them, using 16p per kWh electricity (which no sane owner would routinely be paying) will be using well under £600 of electricity to cover that 10,000 miles.
■■■■ - I spent ages researching that to come up with the same answer.
I can’t say much about electric trucks but I’ve been an EV owner for over 5 years and it doesn’t quite work out well for me (the distance I want to cover, time it takes to charge the car, unpredictability of public charging, inability to install a charging point at home to name a few problems).
If I had a Tesla I probably wouldn’t complain about short range, unavailable or broken chargers etc, but I would definitely need some convincing to accept some of the features that make the car to appear smarter than a human being.
dead.duck:
I can’t say much about electric trucks but I’ve been an EV owner for over 5 years and it doesn’t quite work out well for me (the distance I want to cover, time it takes to charge the car, unpredictability of public charging, inability to install a charging point at home to name a few problems).
If I had a Tesla I probably wouldn’t complain about short range, unavailable or broken chargers etc, but I would definitely need some convincing to accept some of the features that make the car to appear smarter than a human being.
I think availability of your own home charging point is one of the essentials without which EV ownership is always going to be a challenge. Just out of interest, why did you still go down the EV route when it became apparent that a home charging point wasn’t viable?
hat 12,285 kWh figure is actually used in moving the car - the majority being simply dumped as waste heat. Since the EV is roughly 80% efficient, it will need to be charged with less than 4000 kWh. Even at 16p per kWh (which no sane EV owner will be paying most of the time anyway) that’s £640…
