alamcculloch:
Wheel Nut:
With electronics and electricity we had mobile phones and a separate battery pack, now we have something slightly bigger than a credit card and the computing power of the first NASA rocket, and it works on Tapatalk too.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
As far as I can see, they are two entirely different things. My first mobile phone battery was the size of a house brick ,now its a tiny wee thing. The battery in my car is a similar size and weight to the battery in my old Morris Minor from 1963. That tech hasnt moved on very much.
It’s apples v oranges.A mobile phone doesn’t need anything like the type of current demand that a starter motor let alone drive motor requires.
Working life expectations and residual values are also generally a bit more for a vehicle than a mobile phone.
A mobile phone battery is only good for so many recharges and needs lots of regular charging then its toast and costs more to replace than the phone is worth.
Battery/Electricity costs v range and payload and residual values makes the idea of EV trucks a joke.Just like cars.It would be the equivalent of more than £2 per litre fuel costs + battery costs, massive reduction in payloads and depreciation curve of a mobile phone.
JIMBO47:
What about the problems of people running out of charge (cars I’m on about) and running cables up peoples drives and stealing a charge , iirc this has happened already in the USA , unfortunately for the snowflake who was doing the stealing the householder gave him an extra hole! … the snowflake phoned the police to complain as he had no option as he was out of charge !! . Funny though the cops told him it was no difference to stealing gas 
Surely no more (or less) of a problem than scumbags nicking fuel on your driveway? The only significant difference from a legal POV is that “Abstracting Electricity” (an offence under the Theft Act) carries a maximum sentence of only 5 years as compared to 7 years for Theft.
JIMBO47:
What about the problems of people running out of charge (cars I’m on about) and running cables up peoples drives and stealing a charge , iirc this has happened already in the USA , unfortunately for the snowflake who was doing the stealing the householder gave him an extra hole! … the snowflake phoned the police to complain as he had no option as he was out of charge !! . Funny though the cops told him it was no difference to stealing gas
I have seen pics on the web where a diesel car tows a petrol generating set out to an electric vehicle with a flat battery. It must be a costly business if it happened to you.
Someone mentioned his morris 1000 battery was the same size as now. Mine is about 5" square on a new car and is the size of an old 3 cell 6v battery.
How about Wifi charging for the electric vehicles? 
I’ve had an epiphany! It won’t make a blind bit of difference in the long run but I have changed my mindset a tad; I was always quite ambivalent towards alternative fuelled vehicles, and tbh a bit dismissive. I still regard electric lorries on anything but doorstep deliveries as a busted flush unless there isa massive leap forward in the tech. I believe that electric cars can have a viable future and given the lack of mileage I do and if the price was right I’d seriously consider buying one.
What caused my road to Damascus moment was the first lockdown when within days you could see a tangible change in air quality, over the next few weeks I saw trout swimming in the local stream and perhaps it was my imagination but the air seemed more vibrant and smelled so much sweeter. Before I go all Greta I’ll sum up by saying that we need to do something radical to change the damage we are doing. Are electric vehicles the answer? I very much doubt it tbh, but the fact remains that people with large foreheads are undoubtedly working on some out of the box thinking right now. We need it.
lancpudn:
I know many of you in here are familiar with technology, so I hope you can help me find some answers: I am thinking of replacing my electric car with a petrol car and have some questions in that regard.
- I have heard that petrol cars can not refuel at home while you sleep? How often do you have to refill elsewhere? Is this several times a year? Will there be a solution for refueling at home in the future?
- Which parts will I need service on and how often? The car salesman mentioned a box with gears in it. What is this and will I receive a warning with an indicator when I need to change gear?
- Can I accelerate and brake with one pedal as I do today with my electric car?
- Do I get fuel back when I slow down or drive downhill? I assume so, but need to ask to be sure.
- The car I test drove seemed to have a delay from the time I pressed the accelerator pedal until it began to accelerate. Is that normal in petrol cars? It also seemed to have a slightly slow acceleration. Maybe there was a problem with the car I test drove?
- We currently pay about 1 Norwegian kroner per mile to drive our electric car. I have heard that petrol can cost up to 10 times as much so I reckon we will lose some money in the beginning. We drive about 30,000 kilometers a year. Let’s hope more people will start using gasoline so prices go down.
- Is it true that petrol is flammable? Should I empty the tank and store the petrol somewhere else while the car is in the garage?
- Is there an automatic system to prevent gasoline from catching fire or exploding in an accident. What does this cost?
- I understand that the main ingredient in gasoline is oil. Is it true that the extraction and refining of oil causes environmental problems as well as conflicts and major wars that over the last 100 years have cost millions of lives? Is there a solution to these problems?
I may have more questions later, but these are the most important ones to me at the moment. Thank you in advance for your reply.
Yeah right no such thing as an electrical fire giving off toxic fumes from burning insulation.
Environmental effects of refining petrol as opposed to the damage caused by a nuclear disaster and burning trees as bio mass instead of coal.
Where are all these supposed exploding fuel tanks taking out garages.
How does petrol cost 10x as much as electric.When 1 litre of petrol contains 9 kwh.With electric costs 20p per kwh including 5% VAT.
As opposed to £1.15 per litre including road fuel duty + VAT at 20% on the product and on the duty.
You’re avin a larf spare us the anything but green party bs.
A lot of air pollution is caused by the aviation industry, as that is in near shut down the air is cleaner. I have also noticed that when walking on the hills I see a lot further so there is something happening.
alamcculloch:
A lot of air pollution is caused by the aviation industry, as that is in near shut down the air is cleaner. I have also noticed that when walking on the hills I see a lot further so there is something happening.
To be fair high emissions and fuel consumption goes with the territory of jet engines.That’s why unlike military ships commercial shipping doesn’t use jet turbines, mainly diesel engines.
Road vehicle use has taken a lot of unjustified flak in that regard to divert attention from the aviation industry interests.
While if electric is the supposed cheap, safe, and economically viable fuel it’s made out to be then Hydrogen fuelled ICE is obviously far better than hauling loads of heavy, expensive and difficult to charge batteries around.
The truth is electric isn’t economically viable even with cheap coal fired generation let alone nuclear.Nuclear also having the ability to take out Northern or Southern England if/when it all goes horribly wrong.
While bio mass is based on the insane idea that burning trees is more environmentally friendly than burning coal.
alamcculloch:
A lot of air pollution is caused by the aviation industry, as that is in near shut down the air is cleaner. I have also noticed that when walking on the hills I see a lot further so there is something happening.
Yep.
Remember the principle that “the polluter pays”?
Well, fossil fuel in aviation is largely untaxed or very lightly taxed.
Carryfast:
lancpudn:
I know many of you in here are familiar with technology, so I hope you can help me find some answers: I am thinking of replacing my electric car with a petrol car and have some questions in that regard.
- I have heard that petrol cars can not refuel at home while you sleep? How often do you have to refill elsewhere? Is this several times a year? Will there be a solution for refueling at home in the future?
- Which parts will I need service on and how often? The car salesman mentioned a box with gears in it. What is this and will I receive a warning with an indicator when I need to change gear?
- Can I accelerate and brake with one pedal as I do today with my electric car?
- Do I get fuel back when I slow down or drive downhill? I assume so, but need to ask to be sure.
- The car I test drove seemed to have a delay from the time I pressed the accelerator pedal until it began to accelerate. Is that normal in petrol cars? It also seemed to have a slightly slow acceleration. Maybe there was a problem with the car I test drove?
- We currently pay about 1 Norwegian kroner per mile to drive our electric car. I have heard that petrol can cost up to 10 times as much so I reckon we will lose some money in the beginning. We drive about 30,000 kilometers a year. Let’s hope more people will start using gasoline so prices go down.
- Is it true that petrol is flammable? Should I empty the tank and store the petrol somewhere else while the car is in the garage?
- Is there an automatic system to prevent gasoline from catching fire or exploding in an accident. What does this cost?
- I understand that the main ingredient in gasoline is oil. Is it true that the extraction and refining of oil causes environmental problems as well as conflicts and major wars that over the last 100 years have cost millions of lives? Is there a solution to these problems?
I may have more questions later, but these are the most important ones to me at the moment. Thank you in advance for your reply.
Yeah right no such thing as an electrical fire giving off toxic fumes from burning insulation.
Environmental effects of refining petrol as opposed to the damage caused by a nuclear disaster and burning trees as bio mass instead of coal.
Where are all these supposed exploding fuel tanks taking out garages.
How does petrol cost 10x as much as electric.When 1 litre of petrol contains 9 kwh.With electric costs 20p per kwh including 5% VAT.
As opposed to £1.15 per litre including road fuel duty + VAT at 20% on the product and on the duty.
You’re avin a larf spare us the anything but green party bs.
LOL Come on It was meant as tongue in cheek, In four weeks time I’m getting my MG ZS EV & I’m just happy that I’ll never have to visit another petrol station again
And as for those diesel generators charging EV’s they’re moving on a tad to auto charging robots, Get any of VW’s new id BEV models & order up a robot to auto charge yer car whilst you sleep 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dftBK7ck650
lancpudn:
Carryfast:
How does petrol cost 10x as much as electric.When 1 litre of petrol contains 9 kwh.With electric costs 20p per kwh including 5% VAT.
As opposed to £1.15 per litre including road fuel duty + VAT at 20% on the product and on the duty.
LOL Come on It was meant as tongue in cheek, In four weeks time I’m getting my MG ZS EV & I’m just happy that I’ll never have to visit another petrol station again
And as for those diesel generators charging EV’s they’re moving on a tad to auto charging robots, Get any of VW’s new id BEV models & order up a robot to auto charge yer car whilst you sleep https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dftBK7ck650
Did you actually read the figures.
Takes all night to fuel it at 18p per kwh + road fuel taxes and VAT at 20% + cost of batteries oh and the robot.
It’s then only good for short journeys.
The fact is these scammers are selling an inferior, more expensive, environmentally damaging, tree burning and dangerous nuclear fuelled nightmare.
Because they see more profit in it.
Does anyone really think all that’s better than filling the thing in minutes with 540 kwh’s worth of fuel, based on burning dead trees not living ones and no nukes, with around 300 miles of range, for 69 quid including road fuel duty and VAT at 20%.
Green bs.
Carryfast:
lancpudn:
Carryfast:
How does petrol cost 10x as much as electric.When 1 litre of petrol contains 9 kwh.With electric costs 20p per kwh including 5% VAT.
As opposed to £1.15 per litre including road fuel duty + VAT at 20% on the product and on the duty.
LOL Come on It was meant as tongue in cheek, In four weeks time I’m getting my MG ZS EV & I’m just happy that I’ll never have to visit another petrol station again
And as for those diesel generators charging EV’s they’re moving on a tad to auto charging robots, Get any of VW’s new id BEV models & order up a robot to auto charge yer car whilst you sleep https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dftBK7ck650
Did you actually read the figures.
Takes all night to fuel it at 18p per kwh + road fuel taxes and VAT at 20% + cost of batteries oh and the robot.
It’s then only good for short journeys.
The fact is these scammers are selling an inferior, more expensive, environmentally damaging, tree burning and dangerous nuclear fuelled nightmare.
Because they see more profit in it.
Does anyone really think all that’s better than filling the thing in minutes with 540 kwh’s worth of fuel, based on burning dead trees not living ones and no nukes, with around 300 miles of range, for 69 quid including road fuel duty and VAT at 20%.
Green bs.
Or 5 minutes and £85 for 625 miles of range, even in Winter and my stereo’s on and my heater’s on full blast (because it’s -2) and my heated seat’s on too and I’m not losing any range either. Oh, and it cost £1000s less than it’s electric counterpart and can accomodate five six footers and a boot of heavy crap too!! Also, once I’ve driven from Land’s End to John O’Groats I can spend just 5 minutes ‘recharging’ and drive straight back!! Electric cars■■? I’ve sh*t 'em!
P.S. Trucks?? The supermarkets that have 240 drivers at one DC and 100 plus units on the road 24hrs a day, on a permanent rotation, non-stop, do they just buy an extra 100 units so they can charge the first 100 or just work 12 hours a day so they can charge for the other 12 hours?!?! Do they then make 120 drivers redundant or double the number of trucks delivering in any 12 hour period to stores, DCs etc. It’s just that spending 1-2 hours a day queueing at stores or to get into DCs doesn’t seem very clever.
Truckerian99:
Carryfast:
Did you actually read the figures.
Takes all night to fuel it at 18p per kwh + road fuel taxes and VAT at 20% + cost of batteries oh and the robot.
It’s then only good for short journeys.
The fact is these scammers are selling an inferior, more expensive, environmentally damaging, tree burning and dangerous nuclear fuelled nightmare.
Because they see more profit in it.
Does anyone really think all that’s better than filling the thing in minutes with 540 kwh’s worth of fuel, based on burning dead trees not living ones and no nukes, with around 300 miles of range, for 69 quid including road fuel duty and VAT at 20%.
Green bs.
Or 5 minutes and £85 for 625 miles of range, even in Winter and my stereo’s on and my heater’s on full blast (because it’s -2) and my heated seat’s on too and I’m not losing any range either. Oh, and it cost £1000s less than it’s electric counterpart and can accomodate five six footers and a boot of heavy crap too!! Also, once I’ve driven from Land’s End to John O’Groats I can spend just 5 minutes ‘recharging’ and drive straight back!! Electric cars■■? I’ve sh*t 'em!
P.S. Trucks?? The supermarkets that have 240 drivers at one DC and 100 plus units on the road 24hrs a day, on a permanent rotation, non-stop, do they just buy an extra 100 units so they can charge the first 100 or just work 12 hours a day so they can charge for the other 12 hours?!?! Do they then make 120 drivers redundant or double the number of trucks delivering in any 12 hour period to stores, DCs etc. It’s just that spending 1-2 hours a day queueing at stores or to get into DCs doesn’t seem very clever.
The case for EV’s demolished by facts and maths.
Oh wait unless anyone is an EV manufacturer trying to flog a worthless toy for a premium ICE price.
Or an advocate for the bio mass ( lets burn living trees instead of dead ones with the resulting lose lose of more CO2 and less Oxygen ) and/or nuclear power industries ( Chernobyl 3 mile Island and Windscale ).What could possibly go wrong.Then they’ll call it green.
18p per kWh? Most of the EV owners I know pay only a fraction of that - in fact they sometimes pay negative amounts for some parts of their overnight charges (yes, that’s correct - during some off-peak hours the electricity company pays them to take electricity). One friend even has a smart App which monitors the price every half hour to predict the “sweet spots” and adjust his charger accordingly.
Sent from my VOG-L09 using Tapatalk
Carryfast:
Truckerian99:
Or 5 minutes and £85 for 625 miles of range, even in Winter and my stereo’s on and my heater’s on full blast (because it’s -2) and my heated seat’s on too and I’m not losing any range either. Oh, and it cost £1000s less than it’s electric counterpart and can accomodate five six footers and a boot of heavy crap too!! Also, once I’ve driven from Land’s End to John O’Groats I can spend just 5 minutes ‘recharging’ and drive straight back!! Electric cars■■? I’ve sh*t 'em!
The case for EV’s demolished by facts and maths.
It does nothing of the sort. Driving 625 miles in one hit, let alone turning round and doing the same all over again simply doesn’t figure in typical car usage patterns in this country - and if you (or Truckerian99) are one of the handful of people who need to do this sort of thing on a regular basis then yes, electric vehicles in their current form maybe are not for you. Oh - and if you’re doing LE to JOG in 625 miles you’ll need an amphibious car as much of your route will be in the Irish Sea. This trip (actually JOG to LE) has been done earlier this year in an electric car using only the public charging system. 855 miles in 15.75 hours, including a total of 1.5 hours of charging en route spread over four stops. That’s an average of 60mph (55mph if you include the stops) and TBH on the odd occasion I’ve driven that sort of distance I stopped for at least that long for comfort and meal breaks. Comparing purchase prices is largely irrelevant - any meaningful comparison looks at TCO over the period you have the vehicle. Residual values of EVs are largely in line with their higher purchase price, and of course servicing costs are much lower as there’s not as much to service.
But if we are talking about facts - the average car journey in the UK is less than 10 miles (It was 8.4 miles in pre-Covid times)…
As for lorries - yes, large operators who double-shift their fleet all the time probably wouldn’t find electric trucks such a good idea, but you’ve only got to look around all the yards and truck parks/truckstops/MSAs every night of the year to see that a huge number of lorries simply are not used in that pattern. As for the supermarkets - charging facilities at their shops and DCs would go a long way to meeting their recharging requirements. You don’t have to take the thing off the road for a full charge every time…
Roymondo:
18p per kWh? Most of the EV owners I know pay only a fraction of that - in fact they sometimes pay negative amounts for some parts of their overnight charges (yes, that’s correct - during some off-peak hours the electricity company pays them to take electricity). One friend even has a smart App which monitors the price every half hour to predict the “sweet spots” and adjust his charger accordingly.
Yeah right and I bet he’s also stacked 10 tonnes of batteries in the garden and wired up the domestic supply to them and thrown out his gas boiler and gone all electric to take more advantage of this give away electric energy bonanza.
Feel free to post which supposed supplier and which tarrif that you’re referring to.The only way that you’ll get a negative tarrif is if they massively increase it other times to get their money back.
But all those cheap batteries stacked in the shed will fix that.Who needs gas at 3p per kwh. 
Remind me what happened to ‘economy’ 7 heating and night storage radiators.
Roymondo:
But if we are talking about facts - the average car journey in the UK is less than 10 miles (It was 8.4 miles in pre-Covid times).
Oh wait how are car residual values based on an average mileage of 10k miles per year ?.
So the case for EV’s is based on 3,600 miles per year max and the idea that the electric supplier will pay you for the electricity you burn.
As opposed to 10k miles per year at 18p per kwh + road fuel duty + VAT at 20%.
Bearing in mind that a litre of petrol contains almost 10 kwh.
Oh and you’re going to burn our trees and/or eventually nuke the place for the privilege.
Carryfast:
Roymondo:
18p per kWh? Most of the EV owners I know pay only a fraction of that - in fact they sometimes pay negative amounts for some parts of their overnight charges (yes, that’s correct - during some off-peak hours the electricity company pays them to take electricity). One friend even has a smart App which monitors the price every half hour to predict the “sweet spots” and adjust his charger accordingly.
Yeah right and I bet he’s also stacked 10 tonnes of batteries in the garden and wired up the domestic supply to them and thrown out his gas boiler and gone all electric to take more advantage of this give away electric energy bonanza.
Feel free to post which supposed supplier and which tarrif that you’re referring to.The only way that you’ll get a negative tarrif is if they massively increase it other times to get their money back.
But all those cheap batteries stacked in the shed will fix that.Who needs gas at 3p per kwh.
Remind me what happened to ‘economy’ 7 heating and night storage radiators.
current-news.co.uk/news/neg … 20Insights.
Back in February there had already been 15 occasions this year when electricity prices were negative (due to strong winds) resulting in many users on flexible tariffs being paid to consume power.
Octopus Energy have a tariff specifically designed for EV users (Octopus Energy Go). They get 4 hours of electricity at 5p per kWh every night, and prices the rest of the day are around 14p per kWh (varies a bit according to postcode). Going a stage further, they do their “Agile” tariff where the price varies throughout the day, but crucially they let you know in advance so you can arrange your high loads (such as EV charging) to take advantage. This is where the potential for negative pricing comes from.