Election 2015 exit poll

OUT OF HOURS BULLY'S TRUCKSTOP BAR (INTERACTIVE)
361

So Nationalist absolutely.But,like Collins,also Nationalist enough to know that sometimes Nationalist principles have to be compromised to take account of the opposing view.

This line alone proves you are no more of a nationalist than my cactus. “Sometimes principles have to be compromised” yes, I can see the way you compromise & take account of the opposing view, you’ve spent the best part of 12 pages trying to foist your warped version of history & the EU on me without so much as as a hint that there may be something in an opposing view.
I don’t know how many times I have to say I’m not interested in Irish history, I have no idea who these people are you keep going on about. I just know they will somehow get shoehorned into your reply to prove some point. Problem being that, if I don’t know about them the point you’re trying to make is lost, how many more times will you put it in before that penny drops?
Getting back to something in the present, you do know what that is don’t you? Where is saint Nigel?

362

BillyHunt:
So Nationalist absolutely.But,like Collins,also Nationalist enough to know that sometimes Nationalist principles have to be compromised to take account of the opposing view.

This line alone proves you are no more of a nationalist than my cactus. “Sometimes principles have to be compromised” yes, I can see the way you compromise & take account of the opposing view, you’ve spent the best part of 12 pages trying to foist your warped version of history & the EU on me without so much as as a hint that there may be something in an opposing view.
is don’t you? Where is saint Nigel?

Handing over the sovereignty of the country to the the EU Federation isn’t the same type of argument as the dilemma of having to split the country to take account of two opposing, nationalist v established localised majority foreign loyalist,factions.As in the case of both Ireland and Ukraine.

The former case is that of Nationalist v Federalist which is a totally different argument that is certainly worthy of absolutely no compromise,by any Nationalist cause worth the name, whatsoever.In fact more like the opposite as I said in firstly ( what should be ) resort to the law of the land in which handing over the nation’s sovereignty to an outside foreign power is technically an act of treason.While certainly not supporting the idea of yet another bs Federalist run red herring ‘referendum’ to justify the unjustifiable in that regard.While ironically on that note the contradiction in the Socialist/pro EU agenda,having hijacked both the Irish and Scottish Nationalist causes,will also become clearer as time goes on.Being that Nationalism and Federalism,by definition,are mutually exclusive.

As for your protests,that you don’t ‘understand’ all the ‘issues’ and analogies which I’m clearly describing,I’ll just take that as yet more of your Federalist subterfuge.Like saying that you supposedly don’t support EU interference in the affairs of foreign sovereign nations when you most clearly do. :unamused:

363

Is that you compromising you old nationalist you? Looks like more of the same old tripe to me. You need to get another record, this one has worn thin.
So can I take it you have no idea what sir Nigel is up to regarding the referendum? Yes I know it’s just a Tory red herring blah blah, but look on the bright side, you’ll get the chance to bore loads of people on this forum as the threads appear.

364

BillyHunt:
Is that you compromising you old nationalist you? Looks like more of the same old tripe to me. You need to get another record, this one has worn thin.
So can I take it you have no idea what sir Nigel is up to regarding the referendum? Yes I know it’s just a Tory red herring blah blah, but look on the bright side, you’ll get the chance to bore loads of people on this forum as the threads appear.

No there’s clearly no room whatsoever for any compromise with the Federalist ideology at least in my case.

As for Farage I’d guess he’s busy sorting out his well deserved break from it all being that there’s not much he can do anyway until either Cameron calls the date for the EU ‘referendum’.Or the country comes to its senses by sending the law after the Federalist cause regarding charges of treason.Thereby removing any need for any so called ‘referendum’ to justify the unjustifiable.

As for the Cons I’d imagine that there is a lot of disillusionment in the Euro sceptic ranks already.Being that Cameron’s lot are clearly setting up the pro EU alliance with the SNP that he scared the electorate into thinking would happen between SNP and Labour, ‘if’ too many votes went to UKIP. :unamused:

mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/to … lp-5812134

365

So not really a nationalist in the same way as your obvious hero Collins, whoever he, or she, is.
I would have thought there was plenty for sir farage to be doing if he thinks, as you do, that the referendum is earlier rather than later. Maybe he is on holiday, he said he would do that after his latest election defeat, then again he said he would resign didn’t he?
I’m not a betting man but if I were my money would be on there being a referendum before anyone gets charged with treason. I think you should let that one go, it can’t be doing you any good.
Where do you get these alliances from? Labour & ukip, now Tories & snp! All the big parties are pro EU, most of the small ones anti EU. Wonder if there’s anything in that. Of course sceptics are disillusioned, that’s why they’re called sceptics. Ukip got plenty votes, they just aren’t as smart as the snp at targeting seats. Bad planning, bad management.

366

BillyHunt:
So not really a nationalist in the same way as your obvious hero Collins, whoever he, or she, is.
I would have thought there was plenty for sir farage to be doing if he thinks, as you do, that the referendum is earlier rather than later. Maybe he is on holiday, he said he would do that after his latest election defeat, then again he said he would resign didn’t he?
I’m not a betting man but if I were my money would be on there being a referendum before anyone gets charged with treason. I think you should let that one go, it can’t be doing you any good.
Where do you get these alliances from? Labour & ukip, now Tories & snp! All the big parties are pro EU, most of the small ones anti EU. Wonder if there’s anything in that. Of course sceptics are disillusioned, that’s why they’re called sceptics. Ukip got plenty votes, they just aren’t as smart as the snp at targeting seats. Bad planning, bad management.

How do you reach the conclusion that I’m not a Nationalist along similar lines as Collins was.On the basis of knowing when to argue my case,as in being anti Federalist ( Bearing in mind that,like the EU,the UK was/is just another form of Federation/Union of former sovereign states and the Irish uprising was a war of secession and return of sovereignty in that regard ).But also knowing when to compromise such as the issue of partition of Ireland ( or Ukraine ) to reflect the wishes of the established foreign Loyalist localised majority. :unamused:

As for ‘seats’ the fortunes of the SNP v UKIP obviously have more to do with the electoral system which doesn’t have any directly proportional link between vote numbers v seat allocation in the house.

Having said all that it seems ironic that a pro immigration free movement of foreign nationals agenda would then find itself in conflict with the inevitable results of such an agenda.In the case of the issue of supporting the Ukrainian Nationalists against the Russian loyalist community in Ukraine.

In which case,assuming that agenda is allowed to succeed,then be prepared for similar type ‘issues’ in the long term here.When all the different immigrant communities suddenly discover and go for the idea of self determination along their own ethnic lines.In which case I’m sure that both Collins and de Valera would be having the last laugh.On that note you can forget all about their example because the lesson from history in that case would be what happened in the former Yugoslavia during the 1990’s.When Tito’s Federalist,integrationist dream inevitably,finally,exploded. :unamused:

367

Carryfast:
So Nationalist absolutely.But,like Collins,also Nationalist enough to know that sometimes Nationalist principles have to be compromised to take account of the opposing view.

Well i would point out that this statement,

Carryfast:
No there’s clearly no room whatsoever for any compromise with the Federalist ideology at least in my case.

And this statement are at odds with each other. You are either open to compromise or your not. I’m guessing not.
So you agree that despite getting nearly 4 million votes & only one MP was bad planing & management by the ukip hierarchy. The way we have voted has been the same for years, everyone knows what it is & still they managed to ruin it for all you kippers. I suspect that had you got more MPs, say around 10, then the voting system would have been hunky dory. If it was snp v ukip, how come your other, former, MP managed to lose his seat? Don’t think there were any snp candidates in England were there. It’s what happens when you put your money on a one trick pony, that said I suppose you must get used to backing the wrong horse in these elections.

368

BillyHunt:

Carryfast:
So Nationalist absolutely.But,like Collins,also Nationalist enough to know that sometimes Nationalist principles have to be compromised to take account of the opposing view.

Well i would point out that this statement,

Carryfast:
No there’s clearly no room whatsoever for any compromise with the Federalist ideology at least in my case.

And this statement are at odds with each other. You are either open to compromise or your not. I’m guessing not.
So you agree that despite getting nearly 4 million votes & only one MP was bad planing & management by the ukip hierarchy. The way we have voted has been the same for years, everyone knows what it is & still they managed to ruin it for all you kippers. I suspect that had you got more MPs, say around 10, then the voting system would have been hunky dory. If it was snp v ukip, how come your other, former, MP managed to lose his seat? Don’t think there were any snp candidates in England were there. It’s what happens when you put your money on a one trick pony, that said I suppose you must get used to backing the wrong horse in these elections.

No there is no contradiction in the idea of ‘partition’ to cater for Nationalist aims and aspirations v a foreign Loyalist and/or Federalist faction.So are you saying that you are prepared to split the ‘UK’ along pro EU v Nationalist lines.IE Scotland within the EU and England out ?.Or for that matter the USA re instates the CSA within its original borders of 1861 and Ukraine split between Nationalist and Russian loyalist lines.Fine I could go for all that. :bulb: :unamused:

As for seats v votes no what I’m saying is that UKIP would have a lot more than 10 MP’s on an SNP ( or Con ) vote per seat calculation.

369

Carryfast:
No there is no contradiction in the idea of ‘partition’ to cater for Nationalist aims and aspirations v a foreign Loyalist and/or Federalist faction.So are you saying that you are prepared to split the ‘UK’ along pro EU v Nationalist lines.IE Scotland within the EU and England out ?.Or for that matter the USA re instates the CSA within its original borders of 1861 and Ukraine split between Nationalist and Russian loyalist lines.Fine I could go for all that. :bulb: :unamused:

As for seats v votes no what I’m saying is that UKIP would have a lot more than 10 MP’s on an SNP ( or Con ) vote per seat calculation.

Nobody mentioned partition, it’s your minds inability to see the difference in two clearly opposing statements.
If only the scots hadn’t voted to stay as part of a United Kingdom, but they did and so they will have to stay in the EU as a part of us.
Happy to see you agree that the leaders of ukip are to blame for their lack of MPs, makes you wonder how they could get it so wrong given the amount of time they had, added to the momentum picked up after the euro elections. It would also suggest they know they have a lack of belief in anyone else to be leader after their embarrassing post election farce.

370

BillyHunt:

Carryfast:
No there is no contradiction in the idea of ‘partition’ to cater for Nationalist aims and aspirations v a foreign Loyalist and/or Federalist faction.So are you saying that you are prepared to split the ‘UK’ along pro EU v Nationalist lines.IE Scotland within the EU and England out ?.Or for that matter the USA re instates the CSA within its original borders of 1861 and Ukraine split between Nationalist and Russian loyalist lines.Fine I could go for all that. :bulb: :unamused:

As for seats v votes no what I’m saying is that UKIP would have a lot more than 10 MP’s on an SNP ( or Con ) vote per seat calculation.

Nobody mentioned partition, it’s your minds inability to see the difference in two clearly opposing statements.
If only the scots hadn’t voted to stay as part of a United Kingdom, but they did and so they will have to stay in the EU as a part of us.
Happy to see you agree that the leaders of ukip are to blame for their lack of MPs, makes you wonder how they could get it so wrong given the amount of time they had, added to the momentum picked up after the euro elections. It would also suggest they know they have a lack of belief in anyone else to be leader after their embarrassing post election farce.

how can you call getting 4 million votes and coming second in so many area beating all others, anything but a success for a party that is only a one trick pony that you call it ?

it seems the nation voted against the torys with over 67% of the people who dont see them fit to govern, 30 odd % of the people are happy the torys are in the rest of us have to sadly go along with what ever the torys have in store for this term

the only thing that saved the torys was by including the referendum on Europe, whih they would never of done if it wasnt for you know who who kept on the pressure and shown up the politial correct classes for what they are

you constantly forget the fact the snp have 56 mps with only 2 million people voting for them, which is totaly bizare that so few people can get over 50 seats, but then it just suits you as always billy to see things that way, your blind to what has really happened over the last couple of years with the impact ukip have had on the political correct nonsense

its cool now to say we have had enough of migrants coming over and flooding the lands, something people would be branding a racist for before king nigel was brave enough to slap the political nutters arses for them

its been a huge step forward and now we have the referendum coming up, you can hope as much as you wish billy that 30 odd % of people who voted tory will also vote to keep in the eu but i would be very surpized if that was the case, as even many torys are sick of people coming to there constitutional offices complaining about there lot thanks to the flood of imported people to our lands.

i am excited for that vote as around my ears all i hear are people who are sick of it all, they want to take there country back before its to late.

ukip deserve the full respect for what it has done in such a short space of time,

1 mp for 4 million votes is just plain wrong they should of got a hell of a lot more mps than just 1 but its no ones fault as the leader did a brill job

so good infact the prime minister ran away from face to face tv debates, as he knew how stupid he would look up against a real leader like nigel

but you know this billy but you just choose to ignore it all

371

desypete:
how can you call getting 4 million votes and coming second in so many area beating all others, anything but a success for a party that is only a one trick pony that you call it ?

it seems the nation voted against the torys with over 67% of the people who dont see them fit to govern, 30 odd % of the people are happy the torys are in the rest of us have to sadly go along with what ever the torys have in store for this term

the only thing that saved the torys was by including the referendum on Europe, whih they would never of done if it wasnt for you know who who kept on the pressure and shown up the politial correct classes for what they are

you constantly forget the fact the snp have 56 mps with only 2 million people voting for them, which is totaly bizare that so few people can get over 50 seats, but then it just suits you as always billy to see things that way, your blind to what has really happened over the last couple of years with the impact ukip have had on the political correct nonsense

its cool now to say we have had enough of migrants coming over and flooding the lands, something people would be branding a racist for before king nigel was brave enough to slap the political nutters arses for them

its been a huge step forward and now we have the referendum coming up, you can hope as much as you wish billy that 30 odd % of people who voted tory will also vote to keep in the eu but i would be very surpized if that was the case, as even many torys are sick of people coming to there constitutional offices complaining about there lot thanks to the flood of imported people to our lands.

i am excited for that vote as around my ears all i hear are people who are sick of it all, they want to take there country back before its to late.

ukip deserve the full respect for what it has done in such a short space of time,

1 mp for 4 million votes is just plain wrong they should of got a hell of a lot more mps than just 1 but its no ones fault as the leader did a brill job

so good infact the prime minister ran away from face to face tv debates, as he knew how stupid he would look up against a real leader like nigel

but you know this billy but you just choose to ignore it all

You seem to struggle on this one don’t you. It’s irrelevant how many votes a party gets if they are spread over a large number of constituencies. Yes almost 4 million is a lot & almost twice as many as the snp got, but given the fact that we have had a first past the post system in place for years, who’s fault is it that ukip only got 1 MP? I would say it’s ukip heirachy not being selective enough, they started to believe there own hype & thought they would win every seat they went for, instead of targeting a smaller number where they could have done better, even your mate CF agrees with that. 10 to 15 seats, while a small number in the commons, would have been huge for them, panicked the big parties to the extent that a referendum would have been a walkover. But no, they thought they were a shoe in, no doubt the reason saint Nigel said he would stand down if he lost, not thinking that he would, when in reality even he lost heavily to the Tory.
Another reason they did poorly is exactly because the are seen by the publi as a one trick pony. Yes they want out of the EU, there are many that do, but what happens after that? In or out what would ukip be doing for us, the way people think. Given a party that has one aim against a party that has been running the country for 5 years, where they could show results from that time in government, who would you pick. Even your other MP got thrown out by a Tory, why would that happen only months after winning a by election?
I’m afraid your bromance with sir Nigel is set for another another rocky time when his usual defeat comes around, just admit you chosen the wrong horse, again.

372

BillyHunt:

Carryfast:
No there is no contradiction in the idea of ‘partition’ to cater for Nationalist aims and aspirations v a foreign Loyalist and/or Federalist faction.So are you saying that you are prepared to split the ‘UK’ along pro EU v Nationalist lines.IE Scotland within the EU and England out ?.Or for that matter the USA re instates the CSA within its original borders of 1861 and Ukraine split between Nationalist and Russian loyalist lines.Fine I could go for all that. :bulb: :unamused:

As for seats v votes no what I’m saying is that UKIP would have a lot more than 10 MP’s on an SNP ( or Con ) vote per seat calculation.

Nobody mentioned partition, it’s your minds inability to see the difference in two clearly opposing statements.
If only the scots hadn’t voted to stay as part of a United Kingdom, but they did and so they will have to stay in the EU as a part of us.
Happy to see you agree that the leaders of ukip are to blame for their lack of MPs, makes you wonder how they could get it so wrong given the amount of time they had, added to the momentum picked up after the euro elections. It would also suggest they know they have a lack of belief in anyone else to be leader after their embarrassing post election farce.

It’s you who was trying to make the point that there is any contradiction between my Nationalist principles v the ability to compromise on them in certain specific cases.‘Certain’ and ‘specific’ in this case obviously meaning in the case of ‘partition’ to take account of two opposing factions Nationalist v Federalist or foreign Loyalist.As in the case of Northern Ireland since 1921 and obviously ( what ‘should be’ ) the solution in Ukraine.

However obviously the Federalists like the UK government as usual obviously take a different hypocritical view to suit themselves in that regard.IE force partition on the Nationalist Irish faction v Loyalist in the case of Northern Ireland.But support the opposite in the case of Ukraine to suit US defence policy.On that note an answer to the question asked would be good but no surprise you don’t seem to want to answer it for obvious reasons.IE typical supporter of hypocritical,make the rules up to suit itself,Federalism. :imp: :unamused:

As for UKIP no.What I actually said UKIP were the victims of an electoral system that isn’t based on the idea of any direct link whatsoever between vote numbers and seats in the house.Which really makes a mockery of the idea of ‘democracy’.

As for the Scots I think you’ve missed the bit where the Scots have voted a ( supposedly ) ‘Nationalist’,but more like the contradiction of a Socialist,UK seperatist,Federalist pro EU Party,into power. :unamused: As such they won’t take kindly to your typically UK Federalist view that they ‘have’ to do anything regards staying in the UK at least. :unamused: :laughing: While ‘if’ they were a real Nationalist Party they would obviously be taking an anti Federalist line on leaving the EU over the sovereignty issue just as in the case of the UK.

So tell us exactly what would you do ‘if’ the Scottish say they don’t give a zb about the previous independence referendum they are out.Let me guess send in the troops just like your Federalist heros Churchill in the case of Ireland and Lincoln in the case of the CSA.Not to mention the ‘leadership’ of the JNA in the case of the breakup of the former Yugoslav Federation. :unamused: :imp:

373

That’s rich coming from a supposed nationalist who say he supports one thing, except when he doesn’t. Saying you support the Collins way of nationalism, and all that entails, contrasts with what you say you do, that’s is not to compromise, on anything, ever. No mention of partition there.
The voting system has been the same in this country for many years, it’s not been a correlation between vote numbers & seats in the commons. We even voted on it to see about changing it recently, we turned it down, yet another loss for you. That’s is democracy in action, just because you don’t like the result doesn’t change that.
UKIP knew that & still managed to bugger it up.
A nationalist, socialist, separatist, federalist, pro European party! That’s got to be a record even for you. Fact is they voted to stay in the UK, fact is they knew the UK government is pro EU, fact is snp won virtually all the seats in Scotland, fact is they knew that snp are pro EU. That’s got to tell you something, even if it’s Scotland, as a nationalist country, are happy to compromise & stay part of a federal system.
Told you before I don’t bother with ifs, making up scenarios to suit your theories is your department.

374

BillyHunt:
That’s rich coming from a supposed nationalist who say he supports one thing, except when he doesn’t. Saying you support the Collins way of nationalism, and all that entails, contrasts with what you say you do, that’s is not to compromise, on anything, ever. No mention of partition there.
The voting system has been the same in this country for many years, it’s not been a correlation between vote numbers & seats in the commons. We even voted on it to see about changing it recently, we turned it down, yet another loss for you. That’s is democracy in action, just because you don’t like the result doesn’t change that.
UKIP knew that & still managed to bugger it up.
A nationalist, socialist, separatist, federalist, pro European party! That’s got to be a record even for you. Fact is they voted to stay in the UK, fact is they knew the UK government is pro EU, fact is snp won virtually all the seats in Scotland, fact is they knew that snp are pro EU. That’s got to tell you something, even if it’s Scotland, as a nationalist country, are happy to compromise & stay part of a federal system.
Told you before I don’t bother with ifs, making up scenarios to suit your theories is your department.

I’ll try again.‘Partition’ of ‘two opposing’ Nationalist v Federalist/Unionist/Foreign Loyalist factions fits the definition of ‘compromise’.However the idea of a so called Nationalist ‘and’ Federalist government is a ‘contradiction’ ( which is the bit which you’ve conveniently left out concerning my comments ) because there can be no ‘compromise’ on the two opposite and mutually exclusive ideologies.Which is why the ‘solution’ in ‘that case’ is ‘partition’.Which is the ‘compromise’ reached between Ireland and the ‘UK’ to date of which I am in agreement with.At least until such time as the UK federation can itself be broken up and returned to its seperate nation states.Which I also agree with.

IE a ‘no compromise’ attitude to Federalism.Together with knowing when a Nationalist agenda has to be ‘compromised’ as part of ‘that aim’ not least because of the potential loss of human life to do otherwise.Suggest you check out Collins’ life history and you’ll find no inconsistency between his view and mine in that regard.On that note I’d guess that he would be just as disappointed at the Irish government,handing over its hard won sovereignty to the EU,as I am in the case of England.Although,unlike in the case of Ireland,it is no surprise that a defeated/ist nation state,devoted to the Federalist cause,since at least the Franco/Norman takeover,would be so keen on keeping both its UK and EU Federalist dreams staggering on. :unamused:

Which leaves the question of exactly what are the so called Scottish ‘National’ Party all about.Being that,as I said,it contains that impossible contradiction of Nationalist and Federalist.When the former is ( meant to be ) first and foremost all about an uncompromised attitude to the issue of sovereignty.

375

Carryfast:
I’ll try again.‘Partition’ of ‘two opposing’ Nationalist v Federalist/Unionist/Foreign Loyalist factions fits the definition of ‘compromise’.However the idea of a so called Nationalist ‘and’ Federalist government is a ‘contradiction’ ( which is the bit which you’ve conveniently left out concerning my comments ) because there can be no ‘compromise’ on the two opposite and mutually exclusive ideologies.Which is why the ‘solution’ in ‘that case’ is ‘partition’.Which is the ‘compromise’ reached between Ireland and the ‘UK’ to date of which I am in agreement with.At least until such time as the UK federation can itself be broken up and returned to its seperate nation states.Which I also agree with.

IE a ‘no compromise’ attitude to Federalism.Together with knowing when a Nationalist agenda has to be ‘compromised’ as part of ‘that aim’ not least because of the potential loss of human life to do otherwise.Suggest you check out Collins’ life history and you’ll find no inconsistency between his view and mine in that regard.On that note I’d guess that he would be just as disappointed at the Irish government,handing over its hard won sovereignty to the EU,as I am in the case of England.Although,unlike in the case of Ireland,it is no surprise that a defeated/ist nation state,devoted to the Federalist cause,since at least the Franco/Norman takeover,would be so keen on keeping both its UK and EU Federalist dreams staggering on. :unamused:

Which leaves the question of exactly what are the so called Scottish ‘National’ Party all about.Being that,as I said,it contains that impossible contradiction of Nationalist and Federalist.When the former is ( meant to be ) first and foremost all about an uncompromised attitude to the issue of sovereignty.

How can partition of any description be classed as a compromise? If there cannot be a compromise between nationalist & federalist then surely you cannot follow the path described by this Collins, and I think I’ll give his book a miss. You can see that compromise happening in Scotland right now, the Scottish nationalist party being in support of staying in the EU. How can you not see that? I know you’ll say they aren’t really one or the other because it doesn’t fit your agenda. What flavour of nationalist are you? If you an Irish one then surely you cannot be happy with partition over there, it’s what they’ve fought against for years.
What does your UKIP manifesto say they will do about the Irish situation, as your so interested in both.

376

time for a new rant from me

its good to see the first thing to hit the news of this new parliament is the 10% pay rise the mps will be getting

i feel sorry for them as i dont know how they can possibly live on such low incomes so i guess there worth every penny of there 10 % rise

how will they pay for the rise ? well they already made that clear, by cutting the disability payments from disabled people, and of course the normal cuts to benefits to anyone who ends up out of work

i wonder when will be the first pictures to hit the headlines of someone in a wheel chair trying to get to a food bank but complaining of no wheel chair access ?

i mean its not right is it ? there should be wheel chair access for those who might need some beans or soup

meanwhile we have the normal labour and cons living it up

the rest of the country will be lucky to have any sort of wage increase as we are all in it together and we all have to bear the pain

or maybe not.

i can not believe how the public let the mps get away with this sort of double standards, you would of though the expenses scandal would of caused some sort of back lash, but no the public dont seem to mind the mps who get caught with there trousers down, or hands in the till

for me there was only ukip that would of called a spade a spade over things like this

the rest of them sound just like our own billy on here, full of rubbish, you should try to become an mp billy its good money and you dont even have to get results to not only keep your job but they will give you huge pay increases as well

377

BillyHunt:

Carryfast:
I’ll try again.‘Partition’ of ‘two opposing’ Nationalist v Federalist/Unionist/Foreign Loyalist factions fits the definition of ‘compromise’.However the idea of a so called Nationalist ‘and’ Federalist government is a ‘contradiction’ ( which is the bit which you’ve conveniently left out concerning my comments ) because there can be no ‘compromise’ on the two opposite and mutually exclusive ideologies.Which is why the ‘solution’ in ‘that case’ is ‘partition’.Which is the ‘compromise’ reached between Ireland and the ‘UK’ to date of which I am in agreement with.At least until such time as the UK federation can itself be broken up and returned to its seperate nation states.Which I also agree with.

IE a ‘no compromise’ attitude to Federalism.Together with knowing when a Nationalist agenda has to be ‘compromised’ as part of ‘that aim’ not least because of the potential loss of human life to do otherwise.Suggest you check out Collins’ life history and you’ll find no inconsistency between his view and mine in that regard.On that note I’d guess that he would be just as disappointed at the Irish government,handing over its hard won sovereignty to the EU,as I am in the case of England.Although,unlike in the case of Ireland,it is no surprise that a defeated/ist nation state,devoted to the Federalist cause,since at least the Franco/Norman takeover,would be so keen on keeping both its UK and EU Federalist dreams staggering on. :unamused:

Which leaves the question of exactly what are the so called Scottish ‘National’ Party all about.Being that,as I said,it contains that impossible contradiction of Nationalist and Federalist.When the former is ( meant to be ) first and foremost all about an uncompromised attitude to the issue of sovereignty.

How can partition of any description be classed as a compromise? If there cannot be a compromise between nationalist & federalist then surely you cannot follow the path described by this Collins, and I think I’ll give his book a miss. You can see that compromise happening in Scotland right now, the Scottish nationalist party being in support of staying in the EU. How can you not see that? I know you’ll say they aren’t really one or the other because it doesn’t fit your agenda. What flavour of nationalist are you? If you an Irish one then surely you cannot be happy with partition over there, it’s what they’ve fought against for years.
What does your UKIP manifesto say they will do about the Irish situation, as your so interested in both.

Firstly no I’m only slight part ( Nationalist ) Irish but mostly English.

What’s happening in Scotland is the same as what happened in Ireland or for that matter the former Yugoslavia.IE a ‘contradiction’ between Nationalism and Federalism.Being that,as I said,Nationalism is all about an uncompromising ideological position on sovereignty which goes against Federalist ideology.Which is why both the former Yugoslav states and Ireland fought a war of secession and sovereignty against the respective Yugoslav and UK Federations.In which case it is anyone’s guess how those states can now combine that with the ‘contradiction’ of Federalism in the form of the EU.

As for partition,‘unlike’ the idea of fighting a war of secession to leave one Federation only to then hand over that hard won sovereignty to another, :unamused: that is a ‘compromise’. :bulb: The ‘compromise’ in question being just ‘territorial’ in order to meet the aims of the no possible compromise on the two different ideologies.IE you’re confusing ‘territorial compromise’ with ‘Ideological contradiction’. :bulb:

As for it supposedly not being possible to support the Irish Nationalist cause,‘while at the same time’ ‘agreeing’ with the ‘territorial compromise’ of partition.I suggest you really do need the education of the Irish Civil War in which Collins,amongst other pro treaty/partition Nationalists,were killed by the anti treaty/partition forces led by de Valera’s lot.Who later would be described as the Provisional and later,when the Provos finally saw sense in realising that they couldn’t change the reality of the Loyalist community majority in the North,the Continuity IRA factions.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_Civi … t_movement

The really ironic thing in that case being how the Irish Nationalist cause has often in many cases swung between pro Treaty/partition to anti and Nationalist to Socialist and anti EU to pro EU.When it is only the first of those examples which were a matter of ( justified ) ‘compromise’.While the rest are all ‘contradictions’ between Nationalism and Federalism of one form or another.Which suggests that people don’t seem to have a clue what they are voting,or sometimes fighting for,or why. :unamused:

378

desypete:
time for a new rant from me

its good to see the first thing to hit the news of this new parliament is the 10% pay rise the mps will be getting

i feel sorry for them as i dont know how they can possibly live on such low incomes so i guess there worth every penny of there 10 % rise

how will they pay for the rise ? well they already made that clear, by cutting the disability payments from disabled people, and of course the normal cuts to benefits to anyone who ends up out of work

i wonder when will be the first pictures to hit the headlines of someone in a wheel chair trying to get to a food bank but complaining of no wheel chair access ?

i mean its not right is it ? there should be wheel chair access for those who might need some beans or soup

meanwhile we have the normal labour and cons living it up

the rest of the country will be lucky to have any sort of wage increase as we are all in it together and we all have to bear the pain

or maybe not.

i can not believe how the public let the mps get away with this sort of double standards, you would of though the expenses scandal would of caused some sort of back lash, but no the public dont seem to mind the mps who get caught with there trousers down, or hands in the till

for me there was only ukip that would of called a spade a spade over things like this

the rest of them sound just like our own billy on here, full of rubbish, you should try to become an mp billy its good money and you dont even have to get results to not only keep your job but they will give you huge pay increases as well

The only good thing about this drivel is the fact that , at last, you seem to grasped how the voting system works in this country.
Can I take it that your lack of comeback on UKIP means a light went off in your nut showing you they aren’t as clever as you thought they were?
Given the fact that meps are on even more than MPs in this country, that’s before their pay increase, maybe sir nige knew what he was up to when he lost his latest election. Why take a pay cut & have to try & pretend to work when he could stay in Brussels doing bugger all on more cash, maybe he’s smarter than I thought.
I’m sure your one MP will be refusing to take it though, my arse.
It’s good to hear you think I would make a good MP, Tory blue of course, but to be honest it’s a lot more hours, working away from home, in London, for what turns out to be not that much more than I get now, so I will give it a pass.

379

BillyHunt:

desypete:
time for a new rant from me

its good to see the first thing to hit the news of this new parliament is the 10% pay rise the mps will be getting

i feel sorry for them as i dont know how they can possibly live on such low incomes so i guess there worth every penny of there 10 % rise

how will they pay for the rise ? well they already made that clear, by cutting the disability payments from disabled people, and of course the normal cuts to benefits to anyone who ends up out of work

i wonder when will be the first pictures to hit the headlines of someone in a wheel chair trying to get to a food bank but complaining of no wheel chair access ?

i mean its not right is it ? there should be wheel chair access for those who might need some beans or soup

meanwhile we have the normal labour and cons living it up

the rest of the country will be lucky to have any sort of wage increase as we are all in it together and we all have to bear the pain

or maybe not.

i can not believe how the public let the mps get away with this sort of double standards, you would of though the expenses scandal would of caused some sort of back lash, but no the public dont seem to mind the mps who get caught with there trousers down, or hands in the till

for me there was only ukip that would of called a spade a spade over things like this

the rest of them sound just like our own billy on here, full of rubbish, you should try to become an mp billy its good money and you dont even have to get results to not only keep your job but they will give you huge pay increases as well

The only good thing about this drivel is the fact that , at last, you seem to grasped how the voting system works in this country.
Can I take it that your lack of comeback on UKIP means a light went off in your nut showing you they aren’t as clever as you thought they were?
Given the fact that meps are on even more than MPs in this country, that’s before their pay increase, maybe sir nige knew what he was up to when he lost his latest election. Why take a pay cut & have to try & pretend to work when he could stay in Brussels doing bugger all on more cash, maybe he’s smarter than I thought.
I’m sure your one MP will be refusing to take it though, my arse.
It’s good to hear you think I would make a good MP, Tory blue of course, but to be honest it’s a lot more hours, working away from home, in London, for what turns out to be not that much more than I get now, so I will give it a pass.

you come out with some bollox at times billy who ever heard of a Geordie earning anything like 70 grand a year ?

you will be lucky to be earning minimum wage in your neck of the woods hell even the polish guys wouldn’t come up to the north-east as the pay is lower up there and always has been.

i didn’t give a come back over your tory tripe billy as what’s the point ? your leader proved how scared he was of saint Nigel, and i dont blame him from running away i really dont

the voting system that seen scotland get 56 mps for only 2 million votes just seems a bit of a nonsense to me and not only me either as most of the people couldnt believe the results that a tory goverment would some how sneak in a win

but at least there doing what the torys do best billy giving themselves pay rises and cutting money from the poor

i can not believe there are any goodies out there who would vote tory given all the hardships that part of the country has suffered in all the years of tory rule so you amaze me

maybe your a mackem ?

anyway i am just excited that ukip won for us the vote as thats all i cared about in the election is that i get a chance to shout f off to the imports along with many of the others who feel the same way and make sure there is work in the future for our own kids

your ok billy your kids are all grown up and doing ok in life, but what about your grandkids ? will there be jobs for them when they grow up ? or will they have to change there name to end in ski to get a job in the future ?

380

desypete:
you come out with some bollox at times billy who ever heard of a Geordie earning anything like 70 grand a year ?

you will be lucky to be earning minimum wage in your neck of the woods hell even the polish guys wouldn’t come up to the north-east as the pay is lower up there and always has been.

i didn’t give a come back over your tory tripe billy as what’s the point ? your leader proved how scared he was of saint Nigel, and i dont blame him from running away i really dont

the voting system that seen scotland get 56 mps for only 2 million votes just seems a bit of a nonsense to me and not only me either as most of the people couldnt believe the results that a tory goverment would some how sneak in a win

but at least there doing what the torys do best billy giving themselves pay rises and cutting money from the poor

i can not believe there are any goodies out there who would vote tory given all the hardships that part of the country has suffered in all the years of tory rule so you amaze me

maybe your a mackem ?

anyway i am just excited that ukip won for us the vote as thats all i cared about in the election is that i get a chance to shout f off to the imports along with many of the others who feel the same way and make sure there is work in the future for our own kids

your ok billy your kids are all grown up and doing ok in life, but what about your grandkids ? will there be jobs for them when they grow up ? or will they have to change there name to end in ski to get a job in the future ?

You must have had a bad night last night, two rants for the price of one, both equally hilarious though. I can only take it that you’ve not spent much time up here, despite saying in earlier posts that you were from the north, you just keep believing the hype about how poor everyone is up here, it’s just the way we like it, it keeps the bellends away.
Cameron avoided a TV debate and still managed to win a majority, whereas your donkey took part in them all and managed to lose an MP somewhere, who’s the tool there do you think. Told you before, people want a bit of stability, a government they know can deliver, not some one issue party with no idea of how to run a campaign, as seen by their epic result, let alone run a country. They couldn’t even run a retirement speech without cocking it up.
I may well be a mackem, you’ll never know, how many sane people would admit to that?
What vote did ukip win? all I saw was a loss of MP, yet another loss for you leader & a huge chance thrown away by their leadership. No doubt secretly happy as they’re on more money as an mep rather than an MP here. Do me a favour & keep rooting for ukip will you, it’s obvious you are attracted to losers & I don’t see that changing anytime soon.
Don’t worry about my grandkids, I taught my own kids well so they’re already taken care of. It’s amazing what a positive attitude will do as opposed to a negative one, everyone gets fed up of negative people like you eventually.