Election 2015 exit poll

OUT OF HOURS BULLY'S TRUCKSTOP BAR (INTERACTIVE)
341

BillyHunt:
You could sat the same about the Swiss being what they need to be when they need to be it. As a country that produces nothing itself without buying in materials, mainly from the EU countries, processes them & resells them, mainly to the EU, it can bang on about cutting immigration all it likes, but the tightening of trade barriers will tend to have them do as they’re told. The fact is they couldn’t survive without the EU.
I always had you down as a sort of national socialist, maybe I should change it to elitist.

This is the piece you seem to have trouble deciphering. At no point do I say it has happened, I think it should happen, I would like it to happen, I would agree with it if it did happen. If your brain is telling you that then I suggest you get a check up.
The reproducing of an article over a year old in a paper I’ve never read means nothing to me so no, I didn’t know it had been brought up before. No I don’t agree with the EU meddling with non members rights and no, I won’t be changing sides. Do you believe everything you read in the papers? Or just the bits you want to believe. Do you agree with every word that comes out of Saint farages mouth? Do you agree with every part of everything ukip does? You will probably say yes even though you know you’re lying. Nobody agrees with every part of just about anything, apart from the zealot.
Bang on point though with the hitler thing, you do know what happened to the dinosaurs don’t you?

342

BillyHunt:

BillyHunt:
You could sat the same about the Swiss being what they need to be when they need to be it. As a country that produces nothing itself without buying in materials, mainly from the EU countries, processes them & resells them, mainly to the EU, it can bang on about cutting immigration all it likes, but the tightening of trade barriers will tend to have them do as they’re told. The fact is they couldn’t survive without the EU.
I always had you down as a sort of national socialist, maybe I should change it to elitist.

This is the piece you seem to have trouble deciphering. At no point do I say it has happened, I think it should happen, I would like it to happen, I would agree with it if it did happen. If your brain is telling you that then I suggest you get a check up.
The reproducing of an article over a year old in a paper I’ve never read means nothing to me so no, I didn’t know it had been brought up before. No I don’t agree with the EU meddling with non members rights and no, I won’t be changing sides. Do you believe everything you read in the papers? Or just the bits you want to believe. Do you agree with every word that comes out of Saint farages mouth? Do you agree with every part of everything ukip does? You will probably say yes even though you know you’re lying. Nobody agrees with every part of just about anything, apart from the zealot.
Bang on point though with the hitler thing, you do know what happened to the dinosaurs don’t you?

Do I believe that Farage is an anti Federalist yes.Would I walk away from UKIP ‘if’ he or it ever gave me cause to disbelieve that deal breaker crucial point yes.

While your comments,in view of being presented with the clear evidence that the EU is effectively nothing but a dictatorial Federalist scam.That uses economic blackmail to enforce its rule on sovereign nations and the in campaign since Heath took us into it is nothing more than at best appeasement of,or at worst collusion in,that scam,are that you obviously remain in support of the in campaign.

As opposed to joining the out campaign and calling for us to re join Switzerland in EFTA and then doing whatever it takes to smash that economic blackmailing Federalist scam.Which is what I’d expect in the case of anyone claiming that they ‘don’t agree’ with the EU ‘meddling’ with the sovereign right of self determination of nation states.Your comments regarding ‘members’ obviously suggesting what we already knew in that the in campaign doesn’t recognise the sovereign nation status of ‘member states’. :unamused:

Ironically yes bang on about Hitler at least in regard to the in campaign’s obvious disregard for the idea of sovereign nation state borders and government.Or that like him,the in campaign obviously gets some misguided support from the big business community.In this case obviously mostly being about the cheap labour opportunities of the EU’s open door immigration policy combined with its Eastward ‘enlargement’. :unamused:

343

Do you agree with everything ukip does, with everything in its manifesto, are you happy with the way every part of it goes about its business? If not then why do you still support them so vigorously? This is the argument you’re putting forward. Do you agree with the sanctions the EU have had in place for over a year against Russia? As a history buff you should know what happens when you let countries invade others on your doorstep with no comeback.
And yes, I do still support the yes campaign, your half assed history lessons won’t be changing that anytime soon, rather than get out where people like you seem to think we will be in some kind of heaven.

344

BillyHunt:
Do you agree with everything ukip does, with everything in its manifesto, are you happy with the way every part of it goes about its business? If not then why do you still support them so vigorously? This is the argument you’re putting forward. Do you agree with the sanctions the EU have had in place for over a year against Russia? As a history buff you should know what happens when you let countries invade others on your doorstep with no comeback.
And yes, I do still support the yes campaign, your half assed history lessons won’t be changing that anytime soon, rather than get out where people like you seem to think we will be in some kind of heaven.

‘If’ there were any things about UKIP’s manifesto which I have reservations about they are few and far between.Mainly being only the slight unconfirmed suggestion regarding a contradictory UK Unionist stance and possibly the contradiction between free markets as opposed to protectionist.When,as a Nationalist,I obviously regard the idea of the UK as being as bad as the EU,while supporting a protectionist,as opposed to free markets, economic/trade policy.

However in this case we’re talking about a specific ideological deal breaker.Concerning the issue of Federalism using economic sanctions to interfere with the national sovereign governments of nation states.

As for the issue of EU sanctions against Russia the reality is that is no different.In being that it is no different to if America had got directly involved on the side of Devalera’s anti Irish partition agenda and imposed sanctions on the UK in support of same. :bulb: Bearing in mind that what Russia is seeking is no different to the UK government’s ( and Collins’ ) stance on Northern Ireland.IE partition to take account of a local majority Loyalist faction that wants to stay with Russia.Just as the loyalist population of Northern Ireland wanted/s to stay as part of the UK.With the added complication in this case that the EU’s motives are all about adding yet more of Russia’s back yard to the EU federation using bribery,with our money,of the so called Ukrainian ‘Nationalist’ cause,to do it.On that note again I am in full agreement with Farage’s view of that situation which he has made clear in it being just another example of the EU interference in the policies and internal workings of sovereign nations. :unamused:

In which case you seem to have made your position clear in being a Federalist.Who,true to form,supports the idea of Federal government interference in,and/or supremacy over,the sovereign government of nation states.

While on that note Putin is showing a lot more restraint than Churchill etc probably would have done ‘if’ Devalera’s side had won out over Collins on the question of the partition of Ireland in 1921 let alone ‘if’ America had come to the aid of de Valera in that case. :bulb: :open_mouth:

eirefirst.com/archive/angloirish1921.html

345

So to sum up your latest, you don’t agree with all things ukip but still prefer them, I don’t agree with all things EU but still prefer it.
As for the Russia part, exactly, it’s no different, you’re just not bothered by it as much making it a tad hypocritical don’t you think.
Your history lesson on the Irish question, only 100 years ago, falls down in the first sentence, America didn’t get directly involved, the rest is just another one of your fanciful stories with no bearing in fact. Too many ifs in the rest, try dealing in actual events as opposed to what you wanted to happen.

346

BillyHunt:
So to sum up your latest, you don’t agree with all things ukip but still prefer them, I don’t agree with all things EU but still prefer it.
As for the Russia part, exactly, it’s no different, you’re just not bothered by it as much making it a tad hypocritical don’t you think.
Your history lesson on the Irish question, only 100 years ago, falls down in the first sentence, America didn’t get directly involved, the rest is just another one of your fanciful stories with no bearing in fact. Too many ifs in the rest, try dealing in actual events as opposed to what you wanted to happen.

The fact is that you agree with the most important ideological aspect of EU membership concerning the argument between Federal government v national sovereignty.

As for Russia the fact that the British government would have gone to war with and crushed the Irish Nationalist cause ‘if’ Collins hadn’t ( rightly ) agreed to the partition of the country along Nationalist/Loyalist lines,is as hypocritical as hypocrisy gets regarding British support of the EU’s position regarding Ukraine. :unamused:

347

Do I? Now you’re back to telling me what I agree with and label it a fact!
It is a fact that I don’t need labels to know what I prefer & id prefer to be in the EU, with a chance to do something about it, as opposed to being outside it and not being able to do anything about it.
You can’t help yourself with the “what ifs” can you? You have no idea what would have happened, because something did happen, just not to your liking.
If my auntie had testicles she’d be my uncle.

348

BillyHunt:
Do I? Now you’re back to telling me what I agree with and label it a fact!
It is a fact that I don’t need labels to know what I prefer & id prefer to be in the EU, with a chance to do something about it, as opposed to being outside it and not being able to do anything about it.
You can’t help yourself with the “what ifs” can you? You have no idea what would have happened, because something did happen, just not to your liking.
If my auntie had testicles she’d be my uncle.

Feel free to explain how you intend to ‘change the EU from the inside’ having signed the relevant treaties which make the Federal nature of its governmental system clear and being binding on its members.Those treaties being fact not what ifs.

The issue as to what ‘would have’ happened had Collins not signed the Anglo Irish treaty is also a ‘fact’ not a what if.To the point where he knew that he was signing his life away,in a resulting inevitable internal split and civil war amongst the nationalist side,in order to avoid the inevitable result of what ‘would’ have,unarguably,definitely happened ‘if’ he hadn’t. :frowning: On that basis,as I said,Putin is acting with far more restraint,concerning the issue of the partition of Ukraine,than Churchill and the Brit government ever did in the case of Ireland in that regard.While the imposition of sanctions on Putin is just inflaming the situation.In just the same way that America imposing sanctions on the Brit government and Loyalist community ‘would’,unarguably,definitely have done in the case of the partition of Ireland.That being as much a ‘fact’ as the ‘fact’ that no one’s aunty can possibly be their uncle. :unamused:

349

BillyHunt:
Do I? Now you’re back to telling me what I agree with and label it a fact!
It is a fact that I don’t need labels to know what I prefer & id prefer to be in the EU, with a chance to do something about it, as opposed to being outside it and not being able to do anything about it.
You can’t help yourself with the “what ifs” can you? You have no idea what would have happened, because something did happen, just not to your liking.
If my auntie had testicles she’d be my uncle.

what can you change from within Europe ?

i want to work more than 48 hours a week, you say you want to work less billy, well that great for you, but what about the young who are trying to work all the hours so that one day they can end up in your shoes billy ?

if your anything like me billy you would of been working 60 70 or more hours a week many years ago trying to bring home a good wage to look after you wife and kids with, of course you might not of been like me and been given everything on a plate ? you might never of needed to have to work all the hours god sends to try to get ahead ?

but anyway the point is just because you want to work less hours, why the hell should everyone have to ? it should be optional and not forced on us

that is the main problem i have is everything that comes out of Europe is forced on us, we have no say, no choice, and no compromise, thats how europe is, if you want to be a part of europe then you have to do as your told.

from the cpc that was forced to all the new legalizations, health and safety bollox even the new breed of worker where its cover your own arse at all times has all come from europe as everyone is scared to ■■■■ in the cabs these days in case someone reports them for green house gasses offences.

i have never liked anyone telling me or forcing me to do anything i dont want to do, my natural reaction is 2 fingers

europe is just a mass of rules, regs and people who love that sort of thing who have nothing better to do then to sit down and think up ways of how they can p-iss people off even more.

i want out, if i have to follow rules then i want to at least have my own people make the rules so i can punch them on the nose if they go wrong or vote them out is the political correct term :smiley:

350

desypete:
everyone is scared to ■■■■ in the cabs these days in case someone reports them for green house gasses offences.

:laughing:

351

Carryfast:

BillyHunt:
Do I? Now you’re back to telling me what I agree with and label it a fact!
It is a fact that I don’t need labels to know what I prefer & id prefer to be in the EU, with a chance to do something about it, as opposed to being outside it and not being able to do anything about it.
You can’t help yourself with the “what ifs” can you? You have no idea what would have happened, because something did happen, just not to your liking.
If my auntie had testicles she’d be my uncle.

Feel free to explain how you intend to ‘change the EU from the inside’ having signed the relevant treaties which make the Federal nature of its governmental system clear and being binding on its members.Those treaties being fact not what ifs.

The issue as to what ‘would have’ happened had Collins not signed the Anglo Irish treaty is also a ‘fact’ not a what if.To the point where he knew that he was signing his life away,in a resulting inevitable internal split and civil war amongst the nationalist side,in order to avoid the inevitable result of what ‘would’ have,unarguably,definitely happened ‘if’ he hadn’t. :frowning: On that basis,as I said,Putin is acting with far more restraint,concerning the issue of the partition of Ukraine,than Churchill and the Brit government ever did in the case of Ireland in that regard.While the imposition of sanctions on Putin is just inflaming the situation.In just the same way that America imposing sanctions on the Brit government and Loyalist community ‘would’,unarguably,definitely have done in the case of the partition of Ireland.That being as much a ‘fact’ as the ‘fact’ that no one’s aunty can possibly be their uncle. :unamused:

It should be fairly obvious that you can only change the way the EU works by being part of it, you have no chance if you’re not a member. Changes are being put forward all the time, otherwise we would still have the common market. Cameron wants changes, that’s why he’s been touring Europe meeting other leaders.
I’ve absolutely no interest in Ireland or its history so all your waffle re what Collins did, or should have done or would have done blah blah blah, is wasted on me. Having said that you come up with another what if scenario as in, what would have happened if he didn’t sign whatever, don’t know don’t care.
As for aunts being uncles you should ask Caitlin Jenner about that, he/she might disagree with you.

352

desypete:

BillyHunt:
Do I? Now you’re back to telling me what I agree with and label it a fact!
It is a fact that I don’t need labels to know what I prefer & id prefer to be in the EU, with a chance to do something about it, as opposed to being outside it and not being able to do anything about it.
You can’t help yourself with the “what ifs” can you? You have no idea what would have happened, because something did happen, just not to your liking.
If my auntie had testicles she’d be my uncle.

what can you change from within Europe ?

i want to work more than 48 hours a week, you say you want to work less billy, well that great for you, but what about the young who are trying to work all the hours so that one day they can end up in your shoes billy ?

if your anything like me billy you would of been working 60 70 or more hours a week many years ago trying to bring home a good wage to look after you wife and kids with, of course you might not of been like me and been given everything on a plate ? you might never of needed to have to work all the hours god sends to try to get ahead ?

but anyway the point is just because you want to work less hours, why the hell should everyone have to ? it should be optional and not forced on us

that is the main problem i have is everything that comes out of Europe is forced on us, we have no say, no choice, and no compromise, thats how europe is, if you want to be a part of europe then you have to do as your told.

from the cpc that was forced to all the new legalizations, health and safety bollox even the new breed of worker where its cover your own arse at all times has all come from europe as everyone is scared to ■■■■ in the cabs these days in case someone reports them for green house gasses offences.

i have never liked anyone telling me or forcing me to do anything i dont want to do, my natural reaction is 2 fingers

europe is just a mass of rules, regs and people who love that sort of thing who have nothing better to do then to sit down and think up ways of how they can p-iss people off even more.

i want out, if i have to follow rules then i want to at least have my own people make the rules so i can punch them on the nose if they go wrong or vote them out is the political correct term :smiley:

This weeks rant, working hours.
DP, I don’t care how many hours you work, or anyone else for that matter. As it happens I work between 50 & 60 hrs a week and that’s plenty for me, if I could get it down I would. I prefer to be at home with family, that’s what you have them for, not so that you can live away all week, coming back for a few hours when your so tired you just sleep, that’s no life to me.
Besides, you working all the hours just stops a youngster getting a job, you want to do two men’s work so tell me how that helps them. Just admit it, you look after yourself, end of.
Yes I’ve had it easy all my life, even during your “good old days”. Outside toilet until I was 16, first colour TV at 20, 6 of us in two rooms, bloody luxury. I remember doing foot patrols around Londonderry in the 80, getting rock thrown at you, spat on, squirted with pish, and thinking to myself, I am so lucky to have this easy life.
This may come as a surprise to you but in or out you will live by rules made up by others, get over it.

353

BillyHunt:
It should be fairly obvious that you can only change the way the EU works by being part of it, you have no chance if you’re not a member. Changes are being put forward all the time, otherwise we would still have the common market. Cameron wants changes, that’s why he’s been touring Europe meeting other leaders.
I’ve absolutely no interest in Ireland or its history so all your waffle re what Collins did, or should have done or would have done blah blah blah, is wasted on me. Having said that you come up with another what if scenario as in, what would have happened if he didn’t sign whatever, don’t know don’t care.

Firstly it never was a ‘common market’.If that was the idea then we should/would have stayed with EFTA.The EEC was always about ever closer ‘integration’ to the point of it being a Federation of European states with that plan now ‘almost’ complete.On that note there is no way that you can reverse the governmental workings of a Federation by being a part of it.IE the two things are contradictory and mutually exclusive.The best way to stop a Federal scam like the EU,just as in the case of others throughout history,is by secession from it.While by your logic the breakup of Yugoslavia and the US Civil War would never have happened because all the secessionist states would have stayed where they were and not seceded.In which case that would have defeated the object because they would then by doing so have remained member states of the respective Federations that they wanted to leave and/or break up.The fact is the idea of ‘changing the EU from within’ has always been part of the Federalist scam in order to get a yes vote.In the periodic so called ‘referendums’ used to justify and give credibility to their dictatorial ideology and intentions.The current Cameron led sham being no different to 1975 in that regard. :unamused:

While even the idea of so called ‘free markets’ themselves are a contradiction in terms of the national interest.Which to my knowledge is why even as part of EFTA ‘that’ organisation ( rightly ) still allowed the setting of quotas and tarrifs ‘if’ any member felt that it was in its interests to do so. :bulb:

As for the Irish analogy it was you who raised the issue of what a supposedly wonderful idea the EU’s sanctions against Russia, regarding Russia’s position on Ukraine,supposedly are.But then you suddenly take the expected line when someone points out the hypocrisy of that v the history of the partition of Ireland.In which case I could just as easily answer I don’t give a zb about what Russia does in its own back yard.While the only thing that surprises me on the issue is why Putin hasn’t done exactly what the Brit government did in the case of the Anglo Irish treaty of 1921 and the events leading up to it and since,using ‘that’ example to ( rightly ) justify his actions. :unamused:

354

Carryfast:

BillyHunt:
It should be fairly obvious that you can only change the way the EU works by being part of it, you have no chance if you’re not a member. Changes are being put forward all the time, otherwise we would still have the common market. Cameron wants changes, that’s why he’s been touring Europe meeting other leaders.
I’ve absolutely no interest in Ireland or its history so all your waffle re what Collins did, or should have done or would have done blah blah blah, is wasted on me. Having said that you come up with another what if scenario as in, what would have happened if he didn’t sign whatever, don’t know don’t care.

Firstly it never was a ‘common market’.If that was the idea then we should/would have stayed with EFTA.The EEC was always about ever closer ‘integration’ to the point of it being a Federation of European states with that plan now ‘almost’ complete.On that note there is no way that you can reverse the governmental workings of a Federation by being a part of it.IE the two things are contradictory and mutually exclusive.The best way to stop a Federal scam like the EU,just as in the case of others throughout history,is by secession from it.While by your logic the breakup of Yugoslavia and the US Civil War would never have happened because all the secessionist states would have stayed where they were and not seceded.In which case that would have defeated the object because they would then by doing so have remained member states of the respective Federations that they wanted to leave and/or break up.The fact is the idea of ‘changing the EU from within’ has always been part of the Federalist scam in order to get a yes vote.In the periodic so called ‘referendums’ used to justify and give credibility to their dictatorial ideology and intentions.The current Cameron led sham being no different to 1975 in that regard. :unamused:

While even the idea of so called ‘free markets’ themselves are a contradiction in terms of the national interest.Which to my knowledge is why even as part of EFTA ‘that’ organisation ( rightly ) still allowed the setting of quotas and tarrifs ‘if’ any member felt that it was in its interests to do so. :bulb:

As for the Irish analogy it was you who raised the issue of what a supposedly wonderful idea the EU’s sanctions against Russia, regarding Russia’s position on Ukraine,supposedly are.But then you suddenly take the expected line when someone points out the hypocrisy of that v the history of the partition of Ireland.In which case I could just as easily answer I don’t give a zb about what Russia does in its own back yard.While the only thing that surprises me on the issue is why Putin hasn’t done exactly what the Brit government did in the case of the Anglo Irish treaty of 1921 and the events leading up to it and since,using ‘that’ example to ( rightly ) justify his actions. :unamused:

No I think you’re wrong, it was definitely called the common market, I remember it distinctly. Possibly not the one you wanted but that’s the way it goes.
Yugoslavia & the American civil war! Get a grip of yourself man we live in England in 2015. I dont know, or care, what happened there 2 centuries ago. What next? What the Romans did wrong?
Did I say the sanctions against Russia are wonderful? Really?
The reason Putin hasn’t done the same as us British did is possibly something to do with it happening nearly 100 years ago, we aren’t even in the same stratosphere in comparison to today. As for the Irish, does anyone even care about what went on there for the last 300 odd years other than sympathisers, of which you are obviously one. You didn’t mention when you said you were a nationalist that you were an Irish nationalist.

355

BillyHunt:
No I think you’re wrong, it was definitely called the common market, I remember it distinctly. Possibly not the one you wanted but that’s the way it goes.
Yugoslavia & the American civil war! Get a grip of yourself man we live in England in 2015. I dont know, or care, what happened there 2 centuries ago. What next? What the Romans did wrong?
Did I say the sanctions against Russia are wonderful? Really?
The reason Putin hasn’t done the same as us British did is possibly something to do with it happening nearly 100 years ago, we aren’t even in the same stratosphere in comparison to today. As for the Irish, does anyone even care about what went on there for the last 300 odd years other than sympathisers, of which you are obviously one. You didn’t mention when you said you were a nationalist that you were an Irish nationalist.

No I’m not wrong it was called the ‘Common Market’ arguably by those who wanted to divert attention from the real issues of what the Treaty of Rome said.However the issues of the compromise required regards sovereignty were already quite clear in 1975 as proved by that issue being referred to in the out campaign in the day.

As for your raising of the Russian sanctions issue.Assuming that you weren’t talking from a position of support of same then why raise it in terms of the EU.

As for Nationalism v Federalism yes I’m a Nationalist not a Federalist.However it would be interesting to find out what you mean by ‘Irish Nationalist Sympathiser’ in that ideological position.Being that by definition I’d obviously be a ‘sympathiser’ with the Irish Nationalist cause.‘But’,like in the Russian/Ukrainian case or the Serb v Austro/Hungarian one ( and that of Collins v de Valera ) I know when pragmatism means compromise in that regard.Which leaves the question of the obvious double standards and contradiction in your pro Ukrainian Nationalist view v anti ‘Irish’ Nationalist.Unless you’re actually saying that you think the EU is wrong in its actions against Russia in support of Ukraine. :unamused: :confused:

In either case it’s not surprising that you want to air brush out any inconvenient examples in history,including the relatively recent one of the break up of Yugoslavia,which don’t support your obvious dictatorial Federalist ideology.

356

First you say there was no common market, now you say there was, do try and make one of your minds up.
Russia was brought up because you got on your high horse about alleged possible sanctions against a sovereign state, namely the Swiss. I said you didn’t seem to be bothered about sanctions by the eu against Russia, your horse wasn’t so high. Why would that be?
So your a nationalist, big whoop, I’ve said before I’m not bothered by your labelling of people. I’m not pro Ukrainian or anti Irish, I’m just indifferent to them. I tend to judge the people I meet without any preconceptions brought on by where they are from. I’ve met good & bad from just about every country I’ve been to. What label does that get me?
I’m not trying to airbrush anything from history, but that’s exactly what it is, history. How long do you want to keep looking back for, how long do you want to attach blame to a nation for things the current occupants had nothing to do with? I prefer to look forward, to look at possibilities, opportunities to better the lives of my family, Not to wallow in history from years ago that has no bearing on today. What label does that get me?

357

BillyHunt:
First you say there was no common market, now you say there was, do try and make one of your minds up.
Russia was brought up because you got on your high horse about alleged possible sanctions against a sovereign state, namely the Swiss. I said you didn’t seem to be bothered about sanctions by the eu against Russia, your horse wasn’t so high. Why would that be?
So your a nationalist, big whoop, I’ve said before I’m not bothered by your labelling of people. I’m not pro Ukrainian or anti Irish, I’m just indifferent to them. I tend to judge the people I meet without any preconceptions brought on by where they are from. I’ve met good & bad from just about every country I’ve been to. What label does that get me?
I’m not trying to airbrush anything from history, but that’s exactly what it is, history. How long do you want to keep looking back for, how long do you want to attach blame to a nation for things the current occupants had nothing to do with? I prefer to look forward, to look at possibilities, opportunities to better the lives of my family, Not to wallow in history from years ago that has no bearing on today. What label does that get me?

Firstly it seems obvious that you were speaking from a position of support for the EU sanctions against Russia regards Ukraine.With the statement along the lines concerning ‘what happens ( otherwise ) when you let countries invade others with no come back’.Those obviously aren’t the words of a supposedly neutral attitude on your part.While I’ve made myself clear I regard the issue as no different to the support of Collins’ signing on the Anglo Irish treaty regarding the partition of Ireland.So no,unlike you,I obviously don’t support the EU’s posturing against Russia regarding an issue which previous precedent shows needs to be sorted out locally between the parties as peacefully as possible.The definition of ‘peaceful’ in that case obviously not meaning viewing Russia’s and its Loyalist Ukrainian population’s intentions,as anything different to those of the Irish government’s and the Northern Irish loyalist population’s and Brit government’s to date regarding the partition of Ireland along nationalist/loyalist lines. :bulb: :unamused:

As for looking forward to a ‘better life’ that doesn’t give you or your Federalist cronies the right to give away the country’s sovereignty to a Federalist scam in the form of the EU.While the really scary thing is that those who are trying to do so aren’t being brought to account on charges of treason and all further dealings with the EU stopped on that basis which would obviously include the criminal idea that we need a referendum to leave such a scam.Therefore it seems obvious that yet another dodgy referendum is a total red herring in that regard.When it is basically a crime against the country’s national interest that should be a case for the armed forces and the police to deal with on the basis that our entry into it was a criminal act and as such all past,present and future membership.

As for you wanting to forget all about the lessons of history in that regard.Concerning nation states that have been rail roaded into Federations,at the cost of future generations having to fight their way out of them,and using selective bs about how good Federal government supposedly is to justify it,that doesn’t surprise me at all.On that basis no I didn’t say it was ever a so called Common Market.I said it was always about membership of a European Federation and Federal government.It was you who keeps on with the same old lie that we joined a so called ‘Common Market’.Which as I said if that was ever the case we would have stayed with EFTA.

358

Carryfast in full swing really is a beautiful sight to behold…

Just me then :wink:

359

Carryfast:

BillyHunt:
First you say there was no common market, now you say there was, do try and make one of your minds up.
Russia was brought up because you got on your high horse about alleged possible sanctions against a sovereign state, namely the Swiss. I said you didn’t seem to be bothered about sanctions by the eu against Russia, your horse wasn’t so high. Why would that be?
So your a nationalist, big whoop, I’ve said before I’m not bothered by your labelling of people. I’m not pro Ukrainian or anti Irish, I’m just indifferent to them. I tend to judge the people I meet without any preconceptions brought on by where they are from. I’ve met good & bad from just about every country I’ve been to. What label does that get me?
I’m not trying to airbrush anything from history, but that’s exactly what it is, history. How long do you want to keep looking back for, how long do you want to attach blame to a nation for things the current occupants had nothing to do with? I prefer to look forward, to look at possibilities, opportunities to better the lives of my family, Not to wallow in history from years ago that has no bearing on today. What label does that get me?

Firstly it seems obvious that you were speaking from a position of support for the EU sanctions against Russia regards Ukraine.With the statement along the lines concerning ‘what happens ( otherwise ) when you let countries invade others with no come back’.Those obviously aren’t the words of a supposedly neutral attitude on your part.While I’ve made myself clear I regard the issue as no different to the support of Collins’ signing on the Anglo Irish treaty regarding the partition of Ireland.So no,unlike you,I obviously don’t support the EU’s posturing against Russia regarding an issue which previous precedent shows needs to be sorted out locally between the parties as peacefully as possible.The definition of ‘peaceful’ in that case obviously not meaning viewing Russia’s and its Loyalist Ukrainian population’s intentions,as anything different to those of the Irish government’s and the Northern Irish loyalist population’s and Brit government’s to date regarding the partition of Ireland along nationalist/loyalist lines. :bulb: :unamused:

As for looking forward to a ‘better life’ that doesn’t give you or your Federalist cronies the right to give away the country’s sovereignty to a Federalist scam in the form of the EU.While the really scary thing is that those who are trying to do so aren’t being brought to account on charges of treason and all further dealings with the EU stopped on that basis which would obviously include the criminal idea that we need a referendum to leave such a scam.Therefore it seems obvious that yet another dodgy referendum is a total red herring in that regard.When it is basically a crime against the country’s national interest that should be a case for the armed forces and the police to deal with on the basis that our entry into it was a criminal act and as such all past,present and future membership.

As for you wanting to forget all about the lessons of history in that regard.Concerning nation states that have been rail roaded into Federations,at the cost of future generations having to fight their way out of them,and using selective bs about how good Federal government supposedly is to justify it,that doesn’t surprise me at all.On that basis no I didn’t say it was ever a so called Common Market.I said it was always about membership of a European Federation and Federal government.It was you who keeps on with the same old lie that we joined a so called ‘Common Market’.Which as I said if that was ever the case we would have stayed with EFTA.

Well I have absolutely no idea what you’re banging on about in the first paragraph, I’ve never said, again, that I supported sanctions against Russia, that’s something you’ve made up, I said, again, that your not as bothered by it as opposed to the “possible” threat against the Swiss. Do you understand what I’ve written? This means I don’t nessessarily support it. You are indifferent to it as it fits in with your version of history regarding the Irish situation a century ago, as I’ve said, again, times have moved on. Didn’t you see Prince Charles shaking hands with that filthy ira murderer, that would have been impossible only a few years ago.
Paragraph two shows me you are losing the plot entirely, your self indulgent diatribe on the legality of the EU is pathetic in the extreme, although not on planet CF obviously.
For paragraph three well your spot on, all those poor countries being forced into joining the EU, poor Devils, it wouldn’t have happened if they were still under the boot of your Russian mates. Nationalist my arse.
Is there anything you do like.

360

BillyHunt:

Well I have absolutely no idea what you’re banging on about in the first paragraph, I’ve never said, again, that I supported sanctions against Russia, that’s something you’ve made up, I said, again, that your not as bothered by it as opposed to the “possible” threat against the Swiss. Do you understand what I’ve written? This means I don’t nessessarily support it. You are indifferent to it as it fits in with your version of history regarding the Irish situation a century ago, as I’ve said, again, times have moved on. Didn’t you see Prince Charles shaking hands with that filthy ira murderer, that would have been impossible only a few years ago.
Paragraph two shows me you are losing the plot entirely, your self indulgent diatribe on the legality of the EU is pathetic in the extreme, although not on planet CF obviously.
For paragraph three well your spot on, all those poor countries being forced into joining the EU, poor Devils, it wouldn’t have happened if they were still under the boot of your Russian mates. Nationalist my arse.
Is there anything you do like.
[/quote]
I think it was quite clear as to why you raised the issue of EU sanctions against Russia.That being support for it as made clear by the following statement regarding ‘invasion’. :unamused:

It is equally clear that I regard the EU’s actions in that case as interference in the internal interests of a foreign country in just the same way as I view its actions concerning the Swiss.

The Russia v Ukraine situation actually fitting exactly the same situation which existed in Ireland in 1921 ‘and’ ‘to date’.That being partition of a nationalist and foreign loyalist faction within the same country.When ironically it is your cronies in the EU,who you obviously support,who are obviously following the same anti partition course of those like de Valera and the so called ‘filthy murderers’ you’ve made reference to.Remembering that the same type of anti partition murderers in this case also took Collins’ life too.

So Nationalist absolutely.But,like Collins,also Nationalist enough to know that sometimes Nationalist principles have to be compromised to take account of the opposing view.Which is where the relationship between Ireland and the UK,in the form of partition,has been since 1921 to date and is obviously the solution needed in Ukraine.Not inflaming the situation by taking sides.

As for your ideas it is clear that you’re a committed Federalist who unsurprisingly is all about supporting Nationalism just so long as that ‘Nationalism’ is the type which suits the Federalist agenda.Of ditching one Federation for another depending on which one is offering the most cash by way of a sweetener.Which seems to fit the agenda of EU eastern ‘enlargement’ and so called ‘Nationalist’ slavic states actually just being all about ditching the SU and Yugoslav Federations for the EU because the EU is offering them a better deal at our expense. :imp: :unamused:

As for you regarding the idea of handing over the sovereignty of the country to the EU Federation as ‘legal’.That’s just another marker of the Federalist mindset that just selectively makes the rules and chooses which laws it either follows or subverts and circumvents to suit itself.