This is getting to be similar to sticking your tongue into that hole in your tooth. You know it’s going to pain you, but you just can’t resist it.
BillyHunt:
So you think that, because I’m not a ukip supporter I shouldn’t have any interest in them, whereas you are free to pontificate long & loud about the workings of any party you wish.
As a UKIP voter the only interest I’d have in any of the other parties or their leadership would be if they changed their policies to those which I’d agree with such as possibly a pre election Davis/Farage Con/UKIP alliance .Or a leadership change at least resulted in a less formidable opponent from my point of view.So why should I think any different in the case of those who don’t support UKIP having any interest in what UKIP does.In which case the only reason why a pro EU supporter would want Farage out would be that they think it would be in the interests of the pro EU cause.
Therefore if Farage is wrong about anything in that regard it is that he possibly doesn’t know possible infiltration when he sees it.Or maybe he does but there is nothing he can do about it.Nor does he seem to understand the all or nothing nature of the anti EU cause.IE there’s no way that he can deal with the contradiction in the Cons reasons for taking us into the scam with supposed ‘rebel’ Con involvement in getting us out of it.At least so long as the CBI see an advantage in staying in.Therefore it is my guess that most if not all of the Con ‘defections’ to UKIP that we’ve seen are possibly just Cameron’s insurance policy,for the moment if/when he needed Farage out of the frame to stop him throwing a spanner in the works of the in campaign.
As I said as it stands Farage would probably have more chance of taking support away from the free markets,big business CBI driven,Federalist EU,agenda of the Labour Party,than that of the Cons.Bearing in mind that there would be more swing vote and less infiltration potential in the former,than the latter.
Which then leaves the obvious question assuming that you are a supporter of the in side of the EU campaign and you think that Farage is a liability to the out side of that campaign then why would you want Farage to go.IE if you really think that him staying ‘won’t end well’ for UKIP then surely you’d want him to stay. 
Just as while I think that Davis ( might possibly ) be a better leader of the Cons ‘if’ I was a Con voter,I’d prefer them to keep Cameron being that I think that,unlike Farage in the case of UKIP,Cameron really will be a liability in the case of the Cons and their inevitable CBI supporting EU in campaign.Assuming of course Cameron wouldn’t,or wasn’t planning to,go back on the idea of a referendum just as soon as Farage was out of the frame,which would probably mean the end of UKIP’s campaign credibility as soon as Farage was gone. 
there is no better person in the land who can do what our nigel can do, the other party leaders look like chickens and Muppets compared to how Nigel handles them.
of course our billy and people of his ilk will make as much noise as they can about nigel i mean even billy knows how good farage is compared to the tory lot, there own leader ran away from head to head as he was scared of it. something our billy likes to keep ultra quiet about.
the figures being thrown around now are that just 25% of the people of the land want to be ruled by the torys the rest of us dont, somthing billy keeps quiet about as he does.
now in the referdenum there is going to be no chance of votes of areas counting, no fixing of any kind just a simple in out vote were ever one of us can have our say, so if you look at the torys election victory as how the voters will go on referendum day well it would mean just 25% of people would vote that way.
however i do think billy is right on one thing and thats its going to be a lot closer as people from all sides will be in favour or not
from the people i know it seems more people want to get out as there fed up with all the polictical correct rules and regs we get week in week out. and of course the huge numbers of people coming over here undercutting there wages has turned a lot of people right off being a good european
it doesnt hit many who are in a good place in terms of jobs and wages but there are more people in the lower end than the higher end, hence i would expect more people to vote to get out rather than stay in
its like giving turkeys a vote for xmas
we have the power over the turkeys and if we dare let the turkeys have a vote what would we do for our xmas dinner ? is how our billy would think as he can not think futher than that.
so the fear billy will lose his xmas dinner will be his driving force to hope they stay in europe, well lets hope there are more turkeys in the country than billys 
desypete:
there is no better person in the land who can do what our nigel can do, the other party leaders look like chickens and Muppets compared to how Nigel handles them.of course our billy and people of his ilk will make as much noise as they can about nigel i mean even billy knows how good farage is compared to the tory lot, there own leader ran away from head to head as he was scared of it. something our billy likes to keep ultra quiet about.
the figures being thrown around now are that just 25% of the people of the land want to be ruled by the torys the rest of us dont, somthing billy keeps quiet about as he does.
now in the referdenum there is going to be no chance of votes of areas counting, no fixing of any kind just a simple in out vote were ever one of us can have our say, so if you look at the torys election victory as how the voters will go on referendum day well it would mean just 25% of people would vote that way.
however i do think billy is right on one thing and thats its going to be a lot closer as people from all sides will be in favour or not
from the people i know it seems more people want to get out as there fed up with all the polictical correct rules and regs we get week in week out. and of course the huge numbers of people coming over here undercutting there wages has turned a lot of people right off being a good european
I’m still waiting for an answer from Billy and his anti UKIP lot as to why they are all so keen on Farage to go assuming they all think that he is a liability to the out campaign.In which case surely Farage staying can only be a good thing from their point of view ‘if’ he is really the liability to the Party that they are trying to say he is.Or for that matter why were those like Stuart Wheeler happy enough to get involved with what they knew was/is Farage’s show but now for ‘some’ strange reason seem to want Farage out.
The fact is the Cons are lumbered with another Major in a Major type government and the CBI led establishment are zb scared that Farage will now tear Cameron apart over the EU issue.In which case from Cameron’s and the CBI’s point of view it seems obvious that getting Farage out is the priority before even thinking about going any further.
As for Stuart Wheeler if I was Farage I’d say thanks for the donation now zb off back to the Cons where you came from.It would then be interesting to see where Carswell stands on that. 
As for your post I’d say that’s just more confirmation that Farage is going for the wrong audience in the form of wavering Cons as opposed to the disillusioned Labour vote.In which case he needs to totally distance himself from the idea of free markets and the global free market economy.Which of course includes the global free labour market.Bearing in mind that even that bastion of free markets the bank of England is now confirming the implications of cheap foreign labour.Not to mention the obvious contradiction and hypocrisy in the pro immigration Labour cause trying to make political advantage regards same.
Sorry I don’t get back as soon as you’d prefer but I’ve got a job, driving lorries as it happens, 0500 start today, you can remember that can’t you.
Anyhoo, I don’t recall saying I’d like Saint farage to go, that’s what he said. My point is that he’s saying one thing one day & doing a 180 the next. He’s gone from trying to resign to now saying it would be a disaster to have a leadership vote! This guy is all over the place, what next? We should really stay in Europe so I don’t lose my job.
As it happens my personal view is that, while I think he’s a prize plum, they would be mad to get rid of him, the general public have no clue about any other kippers for starters. No I would definitely keep him, I suspect the government would like him to stay as well, it’s good to have a gold plated loser in opposition.
Yes tell a major donor to go & do one, that should have any other potential donors flocking to give money.
Chickens, turkeys & muppets DP, who’s that, the ukip heirachy? Still on with the figures I see, only 25% now! It was over 30% last week, what next? Just get over it, we have a government with a majority, if nige was any good he would have known it could happen & went somewhere he could have won.
Here, you two have got a right little bromance going on, reminds me of Sid & Nancy, I’ll let you two sort out who is who.
BillyHunt:
Sorry I don’t get back as soon as you’d prefer but I’ve got a job, driving lorries as it happens, 0500 start today, you can remember that can’t you.
Anyhoo, I don’t recall saying I’d like Saint farage to go, that’s what he said. My point is that he’s saying one thing one day & doing a 180 the next. As it happens my personal view is that, while I think he’s a prize plum, they would be mad to get rid of him, the general public have no clue about any other kippers for starters. No I would definitely keep him, I suspect the government would like him to stay as well, it’s good to have a gold plated loser in opposition.
Yes tell a major donor to go & do one, that should have any other potential donors flocking to give money.
Chickens, turkeys & muppets DP, who’s that, the ukip heirachy? Still on with the figures I see, only 25% now! It was over 30% last week, what next? Just get over it, we have a government with a majority, if nige was any good he would have known it could happen & went somewhere he could have won.
So now you’re saying that you’re actually happy that Farage decided to change his mind.Great.While I’m happy that the Cons have got the boat anchor of Cameron around their neck going into a pro v anti EU dogfight.However none of which answers the questions as to why all the excessive,anti UKIP,pro EU agenda, interest in the internal workings of UKIP’s selection of who does what within the Party.As I said I suspect that all the anti Farage agenda has more to do with the ( justified ) fears of the inevitable CBI led pro EU in campaign if/when Cameron has to take on Farage in a real in v out campaign.Which isn’t surprising bearing in mind the results of all the previous Euro specific elections and I don’t remember the electorate then saying that Farage was a liability as opposed to an asset.
So,apart from all the CBI Cameron agenda driven media bs,exactly what factual evidence is there as to why the result of an EU referendum won’t reflect UKIP’s fortunes in the EU parliamentary elections bearing in mind no one actually even knows what the turnout would be.
theguardian.com/politics/201 … earthquake
On that note I’d suggest that Cameron has a lot more to lose than Farage has.Which probably explains why Cameron is already trying to bribe the SNP with ‘sweeteners’ obviously at England’s expense in order to maximise the potential in vote.If not to possibly use the SNP as leverage to head off any potential rebellion if/when Cameron decides to go back on a referendum.The removal of Farage by way of media pressure and trying to kick off infighting within UKIP and inevitable resulting collapse of the party arguably being an essential in the case of the latter and a help in the case of the former.In which case it is an understatement to say that the Party is right in saying that it would be a disaster for Farage to go now.Just as it would,hopefully,be a disaster for Cameron if he stays.The previous Euro election results say everything in that regard. 
As for telling a major donor to ‘do one’.Absolutely bearing in mind the question as to why Farage was considered a ‘good bet’ at the time of the donation but suddenly not now.IE exactly what changed.
Can you tell my why your so interested in what Cameron & the conservatives are up to, given they aren’t changing leaders or policies. It’s just that you’ve said that’s all you would comment on. I don’t see how you think Saint farage could be much of a threat, he cannot even win a seat in parliament, how hard can it be? Milliband & clegg managed it, even prescott did it for years ffs. Your making him out to be some sort of messiah when he’s just another 8 time loser, I’m happy he’s staying for exactly that reason.
Hardly sweetners for the snp, Cameron played a blinder there getting the labour vote decimated, splitting the forces, making it even harder for the opposition to gang up on the government, they’ll end up fighting amongst themselves.
What has changed! Seriously, have you see or read the news this week? If you don’t think it’s had a detrimental effect on your heroes then that’s fine, give me a shout when you want your head pulled out of the sand. The way I see it it’s made your leader & party look like a bunch of amateurs, regardless of who started it up. The general public read the papers & believe it all, yes even the sun. I’m guessing it’s lost more support than won but hey, what’s that to do with me. I’ll just sit back & watch the fun.
BillyHunt:
Can you tell my why your so interested in what Cameron & the conservatives are up to, given they aren’t changing leaders or policies. It’s just that you’ve said that’s all you would comment on. I don’t see how you think Saint farage could be much of a threat, he cannot even win a seat in parliament, how hard can it be? Milliband & clegg managed it, even prescott did it for years ffs. Your making him out to be some sort of messiah when he’s just another 8 time loser, I’m happy he’s staying for exactly that reason.
Hardly sweetners for the snp, Cameron played a blinder there getting the labour vote decimated, splitting the forces, making it even harder for the opposition to gang up on the government, they’ll end up fighting amongst themselves.
What has changed! Seriously, have you see or read the news this week? If you don’t think it’s had a detrimental effect on your heroes then that’s fine, give me a shout when you want your head pulled out of the sand. The way I see it it’s made your leader & party look like a bunch of amateurs, regardless of who started it up. The general public read the papers & believe it all, yes even the sun. I’m guessing it’s lost more support than won but hey, what’s that to do with me. I’ll just sit back & watch the fun.
Firstly the GE is history and we’ve obviously ended up with a pro EU Con ‘majority’ administration as opposed to a Davis/Farage led Con/UKIP ‘coalition’ or at least loose alliance.
In which case,in view of the above that’s exactly the point I couldn’t care less what the Conservatives decide to do in their selection process.While the issue now is all about the best possible chance in a Euro specific fight from the point of view of the out side of the argument.In which case Farage has already proven that he is far stronger on his own turf in the Euro elections in that regard than Cameron is on his in the UK parliament let alone on Farage’s.While the excessive ‘interest’,by the in campaign agenda in ending Farage’s continuing leadership,of UKIP in that regard,seems to confirm that.
IE the Cons are more or less where they were under the Major administration but,so long as UKIP and Farage remain a force in regards to the EU issue,the Cons are arguably in a lot worse situation than they were under Major.Hence all the grovelling by Cameron for the help of the pro EU SNP and the obvious media propaganda campaign going on to neutralise/destabilise Farage’s leadership and by implication UKIP.On that note the choice between maintaining the pointless single UK parliamentary seat held by Carswell,as opposed to keeping Farage in place as leader, should be a no brainer.
Carryfast:
No I’ve won when the opposition obviously run out of ideas to oppose my arguments.
and thrice
God bless Carryfast and all who sail in her.
Well it’s taken some time but you’re correct on one thing, the election is over. And yes, we have a duly elected government with a majority, no requirement for parentheses. Still no interest in the workings of the Conservative party but keep putting in davis? Why is that, he’s not even in the cabinet.
Talking of past history you keep banging on about Major, in case you don’t know he’s been gone for some time, times have changed quite a bit in the last 20 years.
Yes again, there’s that nasty Cameron cozying up to the snp! The ones that have already said they wouldn’t work with the Tories under any circumstances, against Dave who’s ruled out another Scottish referendum and is looking again at some of the promises made to them, yeah they sound real cozy to me.
If I was you I’d be wondering what was going on in your own back yard, I see your single MP is having another go at Lord farage, your own people seem more intent on destabilising the leadership that anyone else, when will it end? Who cares?
BillyHunt:
Well it’s taken some time but you’re correct on one thing, the election is over. And yes, we have a duly elected government with a majority, no requirement for parentheses. Still no interest in the workings of the Conservative party but keep putting in davis? Why is that, he’s not even in the cabinet.
Talking of past history you keep banging on about Major, in case you don’t know he’s been gone for some time, times have changed quite a bit in the last 20 years.
Yes again, there’s that nasty Cameron cozying up to the snp! The ones that have already said they wouldn’t work with the Tories under any circumstances, against Dave who’s ruled out another Scottish referendum and is looking again at some of the promises made to them, yeah they sound real cozy to me.
If I was you I’d be wondering what was going on in your own back yard, I see your single MP is having another go at Lord farage, your own people seem more intent on destabilising the leadership that anyone else, when will it end? Who cares?
Firstly no I said Davis ‘would’ have been the way to go ‘if’ the Cons had chosen to co operate with UKIP ‘before’ the election’.Now that is all history.
While you seem to have deliberately over looked the bit where Cameron doesn’t want another Scottish independence referendum.‘But’ as part of that he has ‘also’ offered Sturgeon a number of ‘further concessions’ which obviously at the end of the day translate as more spending per head out of the UK budget for the Scottish at the expense of the English.All of which would fit the idea of Cameron possibly hoping to go back on the Euro referendum using the support of Labour and the SNP to put down any rebellion from his own side.The big question for Sturgeon in that regard is would she support Cameron in such an argument or would she abstain from any move by Cameron in regard to going back on the referendum.
As for Cameron’s administration not being another Major fiasco.The numbers related to his parliamentary majority say otherwise.In addition to Major’s anti EU rebel faction being no where near as well organised or numerous as the Hannan led Conservative one is now.Nor of course did Major have Farage and UKIP to deal with.In which case as I said the choice between UKIP dumping Carswell and Stuart Wheeler in favour of keeping Farage is a no brainer.
All the signs are that Cameron is trying to clear the decks by removing the Farage threat and trying get the backing of the SNP in regard to going back on his referendum promise.In which case Sturgeon gets the win win,from her point of view,of effectively financial ‘independence’,at the expense of the English,within the UK,while keeping the UK within the EU.
While Carswell and Wheeler try to move UKIP towards a Cameron EU appeasement agenda by pulling off a coup against Farage.Unless that is Farage’s supporters have the sense to kick that agenda out before it has a chance to succeed.
Carryfast:
BillyHunt:
Yes again, there’s that nasty Cameron cozying up to the snp! The ones that have already said they wouldn’t work with the Tories under any circumstances, against Dave who’s ruled out another Scottish referendum and is looking again at some of the promises made to them, yeah they sound real cozy to me.Firstly no I said Davis ‘would’ have been the way to go ‘if’ the Cons had chosen to co operate with UKIP ‘before’ the election’.Now that is all history.
While you seem to have deliberately over looked the bit where Cameron doesn’t want another Scottish independence referendum.‘But’ as part of that he has ‘also’ offered Sturgeon a number of ‘further concessions’ which obviously at the end of the day translate as more spending per head out of the UK budget for the Scottish at the expense of the English.All of which would fit the idea of Cameron possibly hoping to go back on the Euro referendum using the support of Labour and the SNP to put down any rebellion from his own side.The big question for Sturgeon in that regard is would she support Cameron in such an argument or would she abstain from any move by Cameron in regard to going back on the referendum.
As for Cameron’s administration not being another Major fiasco.The numbers related to his parliamentary majority say otherwise.In addition to Major’s anti EU rebel faction being no where near as well organised or numerous as the Hannan led Conservative one is now.Nor of course did Major have Farage and UKIP to deal with.In which case as I said the choice between UKIP dumping Carswell and Stuart Wheeler in favour of keeping Farage is a no brainer.
All the signs are that Cameron is trying to clear the decks by removing the Farage threat and trying get the backing of the SNP in regard to going back on his referendum promise.In which case Sturgeon gets the win win,from her point of view,of effectively financial ‘independence’,at the expense of the English,within the UK,while keeping the UK within the EU.
While Carswell and Wheeler try to move UKIP towards a Cameron EU appeasement agenda by pulling off a coup against Farage.Unless that is Farage’s supporters have the sense to kick that agenda out before it has a chance to succeed.
Why on earth would a party ditch its leader before an election & promise to work with a party that, as it proved, had no chance of getting a decent amount of MPs into parliament? That would have been political suicide & hopefully, as a workable idea, exists only in your odd working mind. That as an idea is one of the dumbest things I read on here, and that includes DPs ramblings.
Spot on again, that first paragraph is me deliberately overlooking the point about not wanting another Scottish referendum.do try & keep up, do you ever read the replies or are you too busy composing the next missive? As for the rest of it that’s just you making stuff up to suit your biased view, nothing they do will ever match what you think should happen. If you think the Tories will get help from Labour/snp pact then you need your bumps felt, you are definitely losing the plot.
Still going on about Major, it was years ago, a different time in a different situation and therefore not relevant to today. I know that will not stop you brining it up many, many more times though.
As far as I’m aware Cameron hasn’t tried to get rid of Lord farage, why would he when Nigel’s mates are doing it for him. Surely with such a huge amount of people behind them it doesn’t matter who leads the party, it’s a forgone conclusion that the country will return an out vote, isn’t it?
BillyHunt:
Why on earth would a party ditch its leader before an election & promise to work with a party that, as it proved, had no chance of getting a decent amount of MPs into parliament? That would have been political suicide & hopefully, as a workable idea, exists only in your odd working mind. That as an idea is one of the dumbest things I read on here, and that includes DPs ramblings.Spot on again, that first paragraph is me deliberately overlooking the point about not wanting another Scottish referendum.do try & keep up, do you ever read the replies or are you too busy composing the next missive? As for the rest of it that’s just you making stuff up to suit your biased view, nothing they do will ever match what you think should happen. If you think the Tories will get help from Labour/snp pact then you need your bumps felt, you are definitely losing the plot.
Still going on about Major, it was years ago, a different time in a different situation and therefore not relevant to today. I know that will not stop you brining it up many, many more times though.
As far as I’m aware Cameron hasn’t tried to get rid of Lord farage, why would he when Nigel’s mates are doing it for him. Surely with such a huge amount of people behind them it doesn’t matter who leads the party, it’s a forgone conclusion that the country will return an out vote, isn’t it?
I think a Davis/Farage partnership would actually have produced a larger mandate than that which Cameron now has.Major’s problem was all about his small majority and anti EU rebel faction which made up a considerable part of that majority.The only thing that’s changed in regard to Cameron being that he actually has a smaller majority than Major did and an arguably even larger and more effective anti EU faction within his Party.On that basis it seems that having a continuing Farage led UKIP majority,in the EU parliament,in addition to all that,would be enough to make sure that any referendum will be a ( much ) more difficult prospect for the in campaign to win.Because the out campaign would be correspondingly much more effective than the in campaign propaganda whitewash of 1975.
As for Farage’s ‘mates’ supposedly being against him what I see is mainly an agenda of mostly two former full on members of the Con agenda.Having stupidly been allowed to gain influence within the Party and who are now obviously trying to use that influence to carry out a coup against UKIP’s most important asset in the form of Farage.
The big question being who gains from that and why would anyone with a previous long term interest in the Con agenda,then suddenly have wanted to be involved with a Party that they knew was all about Farage.But then just as suddenly seem to have ‘changed their minds’ regarding Farage’s leadership,at a crucial stage in UKIP’s fight against the Cameron led in campaign regarding a Brexit from the EU.
In addition to the obvious question as to why would Cameron need to make any concessions whatsoever to the SNP agenda assuming that he thinks Scotland is now locked into the UK and that he holds a majority in the UK parliament.On that note again you seem to have selectively just referred to Cameron not wanting another Scottish independence referendum.While conveniently over looking the ‘extra concessions’ to the SNP that he’s ‘also’ made as part of that package.
IE everything points to a hatchet job against Farage using Con Party infiltration of UKIP to do it and backroom deals going on between Cameron and Sturgeon regarding SNP support,in any potential fight in parliament,between the anti v pro EU agendas if/when Cameron goes back on the promise of an EU referendum or at least when the in campaign turns into the usual CBI led biased propaganda whitewash to get the vote they want.On that basis no an out vote was/is never a foregone conclusion.Nor is even Cameron’s promise of an EU referendum nor is the guarantee that an out vote would be accepted by the pro EU side in the form of Juncker etc.
On that note hopefully Hannan will prove to be just as big an enemy to the Cameron and CBI in campaign agenda as Farage will be,or would have been,assuming the coup against Farage succeeds.
Who thinks that the moment Farage removes the “party whip” from Carswell - the latter will promptly re-cross the floor, where Cameron has left the Tory Party HQ door on the latch for him…“Job Done…”
What other explanation could there possibly be for Mark Reckless having the “kitchen sink thrown at him” by Cameron - but not Carswell to get Clacton back as well?
…Unless Carswell was nothing but a Tory infiltrator from the very beginning.
Reckless dropped just 858 votes from his by-election victory.
Tollhurst - despite being 3000 votes behind - managed to find an extra ten THOUSAND people to vote Conservative on the night…
This, despite the Libdems also getting an extra 902 votes, and Labour’s poll increasing by 3683 as well!
2 in 3 people voted in the by election. 1.6% of extra people turned out in the General election on May 7th. 64.9% 66.5% turnouts respectively in this ward.
Something is all rather fishy about this dontya think?
The anomaly here is so vast - even Cameron sending busloads of former Rochester & Strood inhabitants over from the Weald would not have made THIS much difference!
The borders have not been changed since last november either…
Fair election?
It stinks.
That was Winseer’s conspiracy theory of the week.
Winseer:
Who thinks that the moment Farage removes the “party whip” from Carswell - the latter will promptly re-cross the floor, where Cameron has left the Tory Party HQ door on the latch for him…“Job Done…”What other explanation could there possibly be for Mark Reckless having the “kitchen sink thrown at him” by Cameron - but not Carswell to get Clacton back as well?
…Unless Carswell was nothing but a Tory infiltrator from the very beginning.Reckless dropped just 858 votes from his by-election victory.
Tollhurst - despite being 3000 votes behind - managed to find an extra ten THOUSAND people to vote Conservative on the night…
This, despite the Libdems also getting an extra 902 votes, and Labour’s poll increasing by 3683 as well!2 in 3 people voted in the by election. 1.6% of extra people turned out in the General election on May 7th. 64.9% 66.5% turnouts respectively in this ward.
Something is all rather fishy about this dontya think?
The anomaly here is so vast - even Cameron sending busloads of former Rochester & Strood inhabitants over from the Weald would not have made THIS much difference!
The borders have not been changed since last november either…Fair election?
0
It stinks.That was Winseer’s conspiracy theory of the week.
the figure being thrown around now is that just 25% of the people voted tory and this 25% is more than enough to produce a majority win for torys ■■ the figure was in the 30 odd % before but even if its 30 odd % it still is enough to produce a majority win which means 75 % of people who voted get no representation at all
now that is a crock of ■■■■ i wanted ukip to have more mps than just 1 with 4 million votes, the snp have 56 mps with 2 million votes ukip has double that support and ends up with 1
no wonder billy is laughing his socks off at the outcome, i bet even he could never of thought it would come out like it has done. there is a majority government in power, that is going to make all the rules for the rest of us, yet its only 25% of the people in this land who put them there
its as bent as a communal shower room
Winseer:
Who thinks that the moment Farage removes the “party whip” from Carswell - the latter will promptly re-cross the floor, where Cameron has left the Tory Party HQ door on the latch for him…“Job Done…”What other explanation could there possibly be for Mark Reckless having the “kitchen sink thrown at him” by Cameron - but not Carswell to get Clacton back as well?
…Unless Carswell was nothing but a Tory infiltrator from the very beginning.Reckless dropped just 858 votes from his by-election victory.
Tollhurst - despite being 3000 votes behind - managed to find an extra ten THOUSAND people to vote Conservative on the night…
This, despite the Libdems also getting an extra 902 votes, and Labour’s poll increasing by 3683 as well!2 in 3 people voted in the by election. 1.6% of extra people turned out in the General election on May 7th. 64.9% 66.5% turnouts respectively in this ward.
Something is all rather fishy about this dontya think?
The anomaly here is so vast - even Cameron sending busloads of former Rochester & Strood inhabitants over from the Weald would not have made THIS much difference!
The borders have not been changed since last november either…Fair election?
0
It stinks.That was Winseer’s conspiracy theory of the week.
You seem to have confused the turnouts between the 2010 General with the 2014 by election.
Which seems to suggest that Reckless’ vote in the by election was at the expense of Labour and a lower turnout.While Labour’s vote increased closer to the 2010 General and the turnout increased in the 2015 General back to around the level of the 2010 General.The obvious question being why the volatility between 2010/14/15 in the Con and Labour vote.While it seems obvious that UKIP’s UK electoral plan needs to be orientated more towards the aim of getting a vote base on its own merits which it has done.While forgetting all about winning UK parliamentary seats especially when those seats are won at the expense and diversion of the Party’s aims and especially in the form of MP’s who may or may not be totally loyal to Farage’s leadership.Which in this case would translate as beating Cameron on the European issue and letting the domestic one look after itself which it probably will if Farage can beat Cameron where it matters on the EU issue.
IE the fact is if Cameron and the pro EU alliance of Lab/LibDem/SNP/CBI loses that argument Cameron will inevitably be toast anyway and excessive concentration on trying to beat Cameron and his pro EU allies on their own turf in the UK parliament is,as we’ve seen, just diverting resources and the argument from that aim.On that note keeping Farage and his UKIP presence in the EU parliament is the most important thing.Not what Carswell or Stuart Wheeler want.
While it would be interesting to find out exactly what Carswell means by Farage is ok as leader.‘But’ he needs to take a ‘break’ and the Party needs to change its ‘tone’ ( policies ) so that ‘people’ who didn’t vote for UKIP vote UKIP in the future.Great keep the no compromise anti Federalist anti EU agenda but change economic policy to an anti free markets stance.In which case UKIP would need to actually toughen up its immigration policy to more effectively reduce the labour supply and use trade barriers to protect domestic industry ( and therefore jobs and wages ) against foreign competition bearing in mind our trade deficit situation.None of which would require Farage to disappear off the scene.I’m guessing none of which Carswell exactly had in mind.
Yes, it seems my 64.9% was indeed the 2010 turnout.
The by election appears to have had it’s own turnout of 50.6% on re-examination.
So turnout increased by 15% which was enough in a ward containing around 70,000 people - to increase Tollhurst’s poll by just under 10,000 that pretty much uses up that entire extra 15%, but Labour’s poll increased by over 3000 as well, with extra votes even for the Libdems poll going up as well… It still doesn’t add up, although one can only drive a rigid through the anomaly now, rather than the proverbial London Bus. 
The Tories are going to move the boundaries AGAIN before the next election - to match up more solid Tory voting areas to cancel out the effects of any influx of homeless/immigrant/unemployed or just ‘working lefties’ that might be already entrenched within the area, like where I live. I don’t think there’s anyone younger than me in my street who voted Tory, and the Medway Council is now Tory/Labour/UKIP with not a Libdem left on it…
desypete:
the figure being thrown around now is that just 25% of the people voted tory and this 25% is more than enough to produce a majority win for torys ■■ the figure was in the 30 odd % before but even if its 30 odd % it still is enough to produce a majority win which means 75 % of people who voted get no representation at allnow that is a crock of [zb] i wanted ukip to have more mps than just 1 with 4 million votes, the snp have 56 mps with 2 million votes ukip has double that support and ends up with 1
no wonder billy is laughing his socks off at the outcome, i bet even he could never of thought it would come out like it has done. there is a majority government in power, that is going to make all the rules for the rest of us, yet its only 25% of the people in this land who put them there
its as bent as a communal shower room
Ah DP, as hilarious as ever. You seem to be having trouble with the figures from the election, I’ll give you the correct ones, not some plucked out of the air by a disgruntled kipper after taking some drink. The government got 36.9% of the vote winning 331seats, labour got 30.1% of the vote winning 232 seats. The turnout was 66.1%. This means that really just over half the people that could vote did vote. Of that number over 1 third voted conservative & that’s why they’re in government.
As for counting individual votes, in our current system it’s pointless banging on about it as its irrelevant. ukip could have got double or even tripled the number of votes & still only ended up with one, or even no MPs. highest number of votes in the constituency wins, you could be 1 vote behind in every constituency in the country & not win a seat.
And yes I am laughing & I didn’t think it would end up as such a rout for the Tories, happy days indeed. 
Winseer:
So turnout increased by 15% which was enough in a ward containing around 70,000 people - to increase Tollhurst’s poll by just under 10,000 that pretty much uses up that entire extra 15%, but Labour’s poll increased by over 3000 as well, with extra votes even for the Libdems poll going up as well… It still doesn’t add up, although one can only drive a rigid through the anomaly now, rather than the proverbial London Bus.The Tories are going to move the boundaries AGAIN before the next election - to match up more solid Tory voting areas to cancel out the effects of any influx of homeless/immigrant/unemployed or just ‘working lefties’ that might be already entrenched within the area, like where I live. I don’t think there’s anyone younger than me in my street who voted Tory, and the Medway Council is now Tory/Labour/UKIP with not a Libdem left on it…
Realistically it’s difficult to find any amomalies in the figures there.It seems to confirm that there’s no way that UKIP could have outweighed the Conservative and Labour etc vote either in 2010 or 2015 assuming the respective turnout figures are all accurate.
As it stands the fact is UKIP need to go for the Labour vote and the non vote,not try to swing the Cons.Bearing in mind that there is more chance,of convincing the working class,that immigration adding to the Labour supply and demand for housing and services,the global free market taking jobs and adding to the trade deficit and Federalism aren’t in their interests.As opposed to trying to do the same in the case of many/most Cons who are hopelessly lost to the CBI form of exploitative Capitalism.
While as it stands the country is teetering on the brink of being totally lost to the CBI led pro immigration,global free markets,Federalist agenda.Unless that is someone/anyone can turn that situation around.While it seems obvious that people like Stuart Wheeler or Carswell won’t exactly want to support the type of agenda required to do that.
As for Billy’s ideas no the Cons are in a worse situation to where they were under Major and you’re just making the case aginst the present electoral system in favour of a PR type system even stronger.
BillyHunt:
desypete:
the figure being thrown around now is that just 25% of the people voted tory and this 25% is more than enough to produce a majority win for torys ■■ the figure was in the 30 odd % before but even if its 30 odd % it still is enough to produce a majority win which means 75 % of people who voted get no representation at allnow that is a crock of [zb] i wanted ukip to have more mps than just 1 with 4 million votes, the snp have 56 mps with 2 million votes ukip has double that support and ends up with 1
no wonder billy is laughing his socks off at the outcome, i bet even he could never of thought it would come out like it has done. there is a majority government in power, that is going to make all the rules for the rest of us, yet its only 25% of the people in this land who put them there
its as bent as a communal shower room
Ah DP, as hilarious as ever. You seem to be having trouble with the figures from the election, I’ll give you the correct ones, not some plucked out of the air by a disgruntled kipper after taking some drink. The government got 36.9% of the vote winning 331seats, labour got 30.1% of the vote winning 232 seats. The turnout was 66.1%. This means that really just over half the people that could vote did vote. Of that number over 1 third voted conservative & that’s why they’re in government.
As for counting individual votes, in our current system it’s pointless banging on about it as its irrelevant. ukip could have got double or even tripled the number of votes & still only ended up with one, or even no MPs. highest number of votes in the constituency wins, you could be 1 vote behind in every constituency in the country & not win a seat.
And yes I am laughing & I didn’t think it would end up as such a rout for the Tories, happy days indeed.
you can enjoy your laugh billy like i enjoyed my laugh at you when ukip smashed the European vote, or when ukip won 2 and almost 3 mps not so long ago, heywood was such a close call
so over the last parliament ukip have done brilliantly, the most important thing ukip did billy was to force the torys to include a referendum on Europe, labour decided to not offer a vote out on Europe and look what happened to them.
i detest labour more than i do the torys these days as i was once a labour man back in the days it would stand up for workers, now there worse than the torys as at least the torys did react to public pressure over Europe
i can only hope that when the euro vote comes along the result will to be get out. so i can say thank you billy for voting tory and getting me my chance to get a vote on Europe, can you imagine billy if labour won with there no vote option ? i would have nothing to crow about and ukip would of been finished as it would be clear people didn’t care about Europe
but because labour got a beating like i knew they would well it just proves the point how much a vote on Europe really is so important
can not wait for the result than much is sure