Election 2015 exit poll

[carryfast]

desypete:

you can enjoy your laugh billy like i enjoyed my laugh at you when ukip smashed the European vote, or when ukip won 2 and almost 3 mps not so long ago, heywood was such a close call

so over the last parliament ukip have done brilliantly, the most important thing ukip did billy was to force the torys to include a referendum on Europe, labour decided to not offer a vote out on Europe and look what happened to them.

i detest labour more than i do the torys these days as i was once a labour man back in the days it would stand up for workers, now there worse than the torys as at least the torys did react to public pressure over europe

i can only hope that when the euro vote comes along the result will to be get out. so i can say thank you billy for voting tory and getting me my chance to get a vote on europe, can you imagine billy is labour won with there no vote option ? i would have nothing to grow about and ukip would of been finished as it would be clear people didnt care about europe

but because labour got a beating like i knew the woould well it just proves the point how much a vote on europe really is so important

can not wait for the result than much is sure
[/quote]
Firstly it is doubtful wether any post war ‘Labour’ government has ever lived up to the title and certainly not Callaghan’s,and Blair’s/Brown’s regimes.

While on the issue of Europe and the economy the only difference between the Cons and Labour is that Labour don’t mind borrowing a bit more money to try to reduce the effects of their same basic failed policy.

Those ‘effects’ being the same over supplied labour market and resulting downward pressure on incomes in real terms.Together with an unsustainable trade deficit and demands for housing and services.With Labour’s smoke and mirrors damage limitation in that regard and contradiction of its pro immigration agenda having the win win effect,from its point of view,of creating a dependency culture amongst its voter base.

I’m not sure if you were around when we had the last referendum in 1975 but for anyone who was they’d know that it really would be a massive underestimation of the pro EU campaign to think that there is any difference whatsoever between at least a massive part of the Conservative Party or Labour.In Labour’s case that being all about the Party’s lost cause split personality between Socialism and free market economics.While in the case of the Cons it is all about an ideologically Federalist/Unionist and exploitative Capitalist,as opposed to Fordist Capitalist,agenda.In which it sees an advantage in the idea of British jobs for German and/or now East European and Chinese workers in order to further lower demand for Labour in the domestic economy.In addition to the mass import of foreign labour regarding what remains of the domestic Labour market.

On that basis we’re more or less where we were pre referendum in 1975 with a united Lab/Con/LibDem/SNP alliance.With the obvious possibility that Cameron might well go back on his promise just by saying that he’s ‘spoken’ to his EU counterparts and is ‘satisfied’ with the results of his ‘negotiations’.Therefore the referendum is cancelled.With massive parliamentary support regards same.While if not make no mistake be prepared for a massive united cross Party pro EU propaganda onslaught which will even exceed anything which we saw in 1975.On that note the Farage led EU parliamentary presence will be absolutely crucial for the out campaign to stand even the slightest chance of winning.

While it is equally obvious that Carswell and Stuart Wheeler’s ‘issues’ are just an unwanted diversion and an irrelevance in that regard.To the point where UKIP’s single UK parliamentary seat is arguably now more a liability than an asset.

[desypete]

i am old enough to remember the 70s and 60s

bin men were in teams of at least 6, they used to come up your path and carry heavy bins over to the bin lorry to empty and return them

they were on decent money back then

now its 2 man teams and you have to make sure you put your own rubbish out in the street for them and yet the council tax keeps on going up every year as we seem to be able to pay out for all sorts of odd things to help our friends settle in our areas yet we get worse services ourselves as the money gets cut, for the services we need.

i can remember there was no food banks and a pound was worth 240 pennys compared to todays 100 pence

some bright spark thought it a good idea to move into the common market and change our old money into the new money

ever since that day we have gone closer and closer to Europe and every step of the way its been the worse thing for us who live here.

we have more regulations, more people coming over, less money, less everything yet the bills never go down and our wages are worth a lot less today than they was 15 years ago

all the time Europe keeps on gaining more and more ground on us the working people in this country and we have no way to stop it but just go along with it all. its become an out of control monster that will end up killing off anything that was once left of England or Britain

there is a sign that reads WELCOME TO ENGLAND and underneath it says
you will proberly feel more at home than we do or the other sign that says WELCOME TO ENGLAND, what’s left of it.

so forgive me if i dont happen to think Europe has brought us anything but rubbish

[the-snowman]

Carryfast:
more spending per head out of the UK budget for the Scottish at the expense of the English

Well I voted yes at the referendum and SNP at general so its all good to me!
Im not wading into this argument (if you can call it that) because,to be honest,politics bores me,so I wont be participating in any ■■■ for tat. I only read this thread to see if it will erupt into a slanging match. Politions are only interested in one thing. Staying in power. They dont really care about the little man. Its all about big business. In fact,if they all worked together and actually tried to run the country for the people,it would probably be achieved. But they dont.
But what I will say is that your obvious fury at any money coming north of Carlisle is vastly amusing. Its been proven that London gets more subsidies per head than anywhere in Scotland. But dont let that stop your borderline racist comments.
Im not going to pretend to know much about what your all talking about. In fact,I know sod all. Someone will probably come on and have a dig and supply all manner of figures regarding my London statement. But I dont really care.
Cameron was desperate for Scotland to stay in the UK. We obviously have something he badly needs for the UK (Ive no idea what,but im sure someone will be able to enlighten me) So much so he promised all sorts. And I voted for the person that I felt could make sure he delivered. And if that annoys anyone south of the border,well then that’s just to bad.

[carryfast]

The-Snowman:

Carryfast:
more spending per head out of the UK budget for the Scottish at the expense of the English

0
Well I voted yes at the referendum and SNP at general so its all good to me!
Im not wading into this argument (if you can call it that) because,to be honest,politics bores me,so I wont be participating in any ■■■ for tat. I only read this thread to see if it will erupt into a slanging match. Politions are only interested in one thing. Staying in power. They dont really care about the little man. Its all about big business. In fact,if they all worked together and actually tried to run the country for the people,it would probably be achieved. But they dont.
But what I will say is that your obvious fury at any money coming north of Carlisle is vastly amusing. Its been proven that London gets more subsidies per head than anywhere in Scotland. But dont let that stop your borderline racist comments.
Im not going to pretend to know much about what your all talking about. In fact,I know sod all. Someone will probably come on and have a dig and supply all manner of figures regarding my London statement. But I dont really care.
Cameron was desperate for Scotland to stay in the UK. We obviously have something he badly needs for the UK (Ive no idea what,but im sure someone will be able to enlighten me) So much so he promised all sorts. And I voted for the person that I felt could make sure he delivered. And if that annoys anyone south of the border,well then that’s just to bad.

You’re avin a larf.If the Scottish are all about wanting to be part of the ‘UK’,as opposed to ( rightly ) just being in it for themselves, then they obviously wouldn’t be needing the Barnett Fomula let alone yet more ‘concessions’.

As for racist to my knowledge the Scottish make sure that their extra education and health budgets don’t apply in the case of ‘English’ ‘immigrants’.

Feel free to provide any ‘proven’ figures that show that London isn’t subsidising the rest of the country.Not to mention it and the South East being seen as a dumping ground for the UK’s immigration and development to save places like Scotland from taking their fair share.

thisismoney.co.uk/money/news … untry.html

As for Cameron don’t kid yourself.The fact is he is only desperate to keep the UK and the EU Federal projects staggering on because the Cons are as ideologically lumbered with the Unionist/Federalist agenda as Labour is lumbered with the Socialist one.

On that note UKIP needs to get its act together in being as against Federalism/Unionism,in the case of the UK,as it is in the case of the EU.

As for it all being about the CBI ruling the country as opposed to democratically elected governments and getting rid of the outdated ( alien to the British Isles ) ideas of Federalism/Unionism that is the point of the ‘arguments’ within the topic.Which you’ve said you aren’t interested in seemingly having ( rightly ) voted for a so called Nationalist Party.Although being that Sturgeon and her voters don’t seem to understand,or want to understand,the difference between a Sovereign Scottish state,as part of a ‘Confederal’ UK,outside the EU,as opposed to a non Sovereign ‘Federal’ one,as part of the UK and EU,that isn’t surprising.IE,like Sturgeon if you’re really a ‘Nationalist’,then start talking and acting like one.Which obviously means not standing in the UK parliament helping Cameron to push through his Unionist/Federalist agenda.

[bewick]

I voted Conservative as I always have done since 1970,I would have voted UKIP if they’d had half a chance in Westmorland & Lonsdale but unfortunately that ■■■■ Farron got back in again.It used to be a strong Conservative constituancy but they (Conservative party) started to think they could put any ■■■■■■ up and they’d get voted in regardless but they eventually found out different.One consolation/laugh I can have is that if that ■■■■ Farron does become leader of the Lib/Dems he’ll only need a London taxi to carry his whole party of MP’s around so he’s landed back into the same position they occupied for about 100 years Viva “CF” cheers Bewick.PS I believe that Simon Hughs ran around in an ex London cab which he won’t be needing now so I’m sure he could loan/sell it to Farron to cart his MP’s about in.

[carryfast]

Bewick:
I voted Conservative as I always have done since 1970,I would have voted UKIP if they’d had half a chance in Westmorland & Lonsdale but unfortunately that [zb] Farron got back in again.It used to be a strong Conservative constituancy but they (Conservative party) started to think they could put any [zb] up and they’d get voted in regardless but they eventually found out different.One consolation/laugh I can have is that if that [zb] Farron does become leader of the Lib/Dems he’ll only need a London taxi to carry his whole party of MP’s around so he’s landed back into the same position they occupied for about 100 years Viva “CF” cheers Bewick.PS I believe that Simon Hughs ran around in an ex London cab which he won’t be needing now so I’m sure he could loan/sell it to Farron to cart his MP’s about in.

By my reckoning that made you one of the lot who helped to put Heath’s government in let alone Major.

Then you say you ‘would’ have voted for UKIP but voted for Cameron’s lot instead because UKIP don’t have a chance.IE catch 22.

As for the LibDem ■■■■■■■ vote I’m guessing that like the LibDem vote on the borders of this area the electorate haven’t actually read the LibDem manifesto.Or if they had they’d probably forgot who they were intending to vote for on the way home from the pub just before the polls closed. Or they are all for immigration and development just so long as it isn’t put in their area and its all put down South.

IE they had Vince Cable calling for the Green Belt to be built on so as to provide more houses for their pro immigration agenda.While Ed Davey was ( rightly ) telling Boris Johnson not to do it.

dailymail.co.uk/news/article … emand.html

edwarddavey.co.uk/web/?q=node/902

IE a bunch of hypocritical lying zb’s.Just like the Cons.

[carryfast]

This is the result of what happens when people who ‘say’ they ‘would’ have voted for UKIP vote for Cameron instead.

telegraph.co.uk/news/politic … ction.html

No surprise that Hannan seems to have stayed quiet in the face of the Federalist insults.While Farage was obviously too diplomatic to tell the zb’s that he actually has as good an electoral mandate,if not better,in the Euro parliament,as they have.Let alone telling the zb Germans that they’d know all about being scrounging losers after kicking off two World Wars and then being payed off by Heath and all the other Federalist appeasers,at the expense of Brit workers,to ensure that they don’t go another murder rampage.As for the Belgians they can zb off too as I said we should have either stayed out of WW1 or joined it on the side of Germany.

[billyhunt]

Carryfast:
This is the result of what happens when people who ‘say’ they ‘would’ have voted for UKIP vote for Cameron instead.

telegraph.co.uk/news/politic … ction.html

No surprise that Hannan seems to have stayed quiet in the face of the Federalist insults.While Farage was obviously too diplomatic to tell the zb’s that he actually has as good an electoral mandate,if not better,in the Euro parliament,as they have.Let alone telling the zb Germans that they’d know all about being scrounging losers after kicking off two World Wars and then being payed off by Heath and all the other Federalist appeasers,at the expense of Brit workers,to ensure that they don’t go another murder rampage.As for the Belgians they can zb off too as I said we should have either stayed out of WW1 or joined it on the side of Germany.

Haw haw, that’s quality, who said the Germans don’t have a sense of humour. Is that you getting all wrinkly lipped because saint Nigel is having his plonker pulled by his colleagues. You couldn’t make this stuff up.

[carryfast]

BillyHunt:

Carryfast:
This is the result of what happens when people who ‘say’ they ‘would’ have voted for UKIP vote for Cameron instead.

telegraph.co.uk/news/politic … ction.html

No surprise that Hannan seems to have stayed quiet in the face of the Federalist insults.While Farage was obviously too diplomatic to tell the zb’s that he actually has as good an electoral mandate,if not better,in the Euro parliament,as they have.Let alone telling the zb Germans that they’d know all about being scrounging losers after kicking off two World Wars and then being payed off by Heath and all the other Federalist appeasers,at the expense of Brit workers,to ensure that they don’t go another murder rampage.As for the Belgians they can zb off too as I said we should have either stayed out of WW1 or joined it on the side of Germany.

Haw haw, that’s quality, who said the Germans don’t have a sense of humour. Is that you getting all wrinkly lipped because saint Nigel is having his plonker pulled by his colleagues. You couldn’t make this stuff up.

No just pointing out the irony of a bunch of Federalist Krauts who conveniently and selectively don’t mind reference to the UK parliament when it suits their cause.Let alone those with their history throwing insults like ‘losers’ around at elected MEP’s in regard to a domestic election that ( shouldn’t have ) anything to do with them.IE nothing has changed in the mindset of those arrogant zb’s since we had to sort them out in 1940-45.

Although look on the bright side with friends like the Belgians and the zb Germans on their side the in campaign doesn’t need enemies like UKIP supporters and rebel Conservatives like Hannan ( and Bewick ) at home.

[billyhunt]

Looks to me like Lord nige brought it on himself, maybe next time he’ll think before committing to something before offering sound bites to the press. They’re all elected meps, just seem to be having a bit of banter. Has Lord farage lost his sense of humour as well as some of his team?

[carryfast]

BillyHunt:
Looks to me like Lord nige brought it on himself, maybe next time he’ll think before committing to something before offering sound bites to the press. They’re all elected meps, just seem to be having a bit of banter. Has Lord farage lost his sense of humour as well as some of his team?

I don’t think ‘lost’ part of his team is entirely accurate.More like a case of the Party ( rightly ) realising that now is the time for loyalty to its leader and sorting out a bunch of chancers who thought that weakening the position of UKIP’s and the out campaign’s best asset was a good idea.Much to the obvious discomfort of the UK in campaign and ze wanabee German led Federal USE government ( and their Belgian allies ).

Meanwhile,like the economic figures,the facts,concerning the net cost to the UK of EU membership and the Germans trying to set up the 4th Reich and the issues of immigration etc etc,all continue to hammer one nail after another into the new Cameron led Major type Con administration.Within a matter of weeks since it came to ‘power’.To the point where many tactical Con voters are probably already kicking themselves for not joining the disillusioned Labour ranks in voting for UKIP.

[billyhunt]

Carryfast:

BillyHunt:
Looks to me like Lord nige brought it on himself, maybe next time he’ll think before committing to something before offering sound bites to the press. They’re all elected meps, just seem to be having a bit of banter. Has Lord farage lost his sense of humour as well as some of his team?

I don’t think ‘lost’ part of his team is entirely accurate.More like a case of the Party ( rightly ) realising that now is the time for loyalty to its leader and sorting out a bunch of chancers who thought that weakening the position of UKIP’s and the out campaign’s best asset was a good idea.Much to the obvious discomfort of the UK in campaign and ze wanabee German led Federal USE government ( and their Belgian allies ).

Meanwhile,like the economic figures,the facts,concerning the net cost to the UK of EU membership and the Germans trying to set up the 4th Reich and the issues of immigration etc etc,all continue to hammer one nail after another into the new Cameron led Major type Con administration.Within a matter of weeks since it came to ‘power’.To the point where many tactical Con voters are probably already kicking themselves for not joining the disillusioned Labour ranks in voting for UKIP.

You’re correct I shouldn’t have said lost, I should have put the truth inasmuch as they were culled for daring to speak out against the leader of ze party. It will not be tolerated.
You can’t even get ukip supporters to vote for them in a general election, what chance of getting them to vote your way any other time? Luckily the majority aren’t as daft as you seem to think.

[carryfast]

BillyHunt:
You’re correct I shouldn’t have said lost, I should have put the truth inasmuch as they were culled for daring to speak out against the leader of ze party. It will not be tolerated.

To be fair anyone who joins UKIP with the intention of ‘speaking out against the leader’,with the aim of taking a similar Party line as the Cons ( IE a ‘conciliatory’ ‘tone’ on Europe etc ),as opposed to verbal democratic warfare in the EU parliament and at home,with the intention of at least leaving and hopefully smashing the Federalist project in the process,amongst other policies like sorting the immigration issue for example,is probably in the wrong place.Just as in the case of vice versa as to anyone who ‘speaks out’ against Cameron’s or Sturgeon’s etc leadership regards same.

Which might at least explain why Hannan wasn’t offered a safe Con seat in the UK parliament instead of Boris for example or why Davis hasn’t been given an important cabinet role.

[billyhunt]

Carryfast:

BillyHunt:
You’re correct I shouldn’t have said lost, I should have put the truth inasmuch as they were culled for daring to speak out against the leader of ze party. It will not be tolerated.

To be fair anyone who joins UKIP with the intention of ‘speaking out against the leader’,with the aim of taking a similar Party line as the Cons ( IE a ‘conciliatory’ ‘tone’ on Europe etc ),as opposed to verbal democratic warfare in the EU parliament and at home,with the intention of at least leaving and hopefully smashing the Federalist project in the process,amongst other policies like sorting the immigration issue for example,is probably in the wrong place.Just as in the case of vice versa as to anyone who ‘speaks out’ against Cameron’s or Sturgeon’s etc leadership regards same.

Which might at least explain why Hannan wasn’t offered a safe Con seat in the UK parliament instead of Boris for example or why Davis hasn’t been given an important cabinet role.

I don’t think anyone joins a party with the sole intention of speaking out against the leader. That said you might think, in a Democratic Party, that having done enough to get into a position of, albeit, little power, you might be allowed to comment on the leadership when you think things need saying. Obviously ukip aren’t so mature or secure in there position that that could allow that to happen, preferring to employ the knee jerk reaction style leadership to move dissenters before people start listening to them & taking note. Looks like it’s Nigel’s way or the highway.
As for the rest it’s obvious bores is being groomed as SuperDaves successor so it’s made sense to get him back in the house, nobody but you has heard of the other guy. Davis has been out of the picture since losing the leadership battle 10 years ago.

[carryfast]

BillyHunt:
I don’t think anyone joins a party with the sole intention of speaking out against the leader. Obviously ukip aren’t so mature or secure in there position that that could allow that to happen, preferring to employ the knee jerk reaction style leadership to move dissenters before people start listening to them & taking note. Looks like it’s Nigel’s way or the highway.

The definition of Party Politics and a Party ‘leader’ is that it’s the ‘leader’s way or the highway’.That applies wether it was Heath in the case of Powell.Or Wilson and Callaghan in the case of Benn or Shore.Or Thatcher in the case of Heseltine.Or Cameron in the case of Hannan or Davis.So why the double standards in the case of Farage and his detractor/s.

The difference in this case being that,with the exception of Shore and possibly Powell,Farage is the only one who is offering the combination of anti Federalism and arguably ( hopefully ) the realisation that unrestrained free markets won’t work.They just end up in an inevitable race to the bottom regards wage levels and resulting collapsed economy.While assuming that Farage isn’t offering the latter then that still wouldn’t be a deal breaker being that the issue of stopping the Federal intentions of the EU government is a far more important issue to get sorted first.

It is obvious as to how and why an ideologically Federalist Party,that follows an exploitative cheap labour based agenda and an ideologically Socialist Party that depends on that agenda to justify its own existence,would both view that combination with extreme fear.Possibly to the point where at least the former would want to ‘put’ ‘its’ supporters’ on the ‘inside’ of that ‘threat’ in order to try to subvert it.

As for the latter all the signs are that it is now ( rightly ) as a Party gradually changing course towards UKIP’s ideas rather than trying to oppose them.But that change of course seems to be more along the lines of a loaded super tanker rather than a frigate.When it seems obvious that it is the idea of a UKIP/Labour alliance which would be in the best interests of the British working class.Just as ( would have been ) the case with a Powell and Shore led coalition instead of Callaghan’s and Thatcher’s regimes.

[billyhunt]

The difference is the fact that in this case Lord farage brought it on himself with his in/out shake it all about approach to the leadership.
The rest is just your oft repeated drivel. Ukip had their chance, they blew it. End of.
labour/ukip alliance for the working man! Have you been smoking crack?

[carryfast]

BillyHunt:
The difference is the fact that in this case Lord farage brought it on himself with his in/out shake it all about approach to the leadership.
The rest is just your oft repeated drivel. Ukip had their chance, they blew it. End of.
labour/ukip alliance for the working man! Have you been smoking crack?

Farage hasn’t ‘brought’ anything ‘on himself’.He simply thought that he’d take responsibility of a perceived lack of electoral performance in the UK election.The Party and its voter base mostly ( rightly ) disagreed with that ‘perception’ based on an objective view using a reasonable criterea of vote numbers and MEP representation and Farage’s essential continuing leadership of same.Luckily for the out campaign in any EU referendum and keeping the pressure on in the EU house he chose to change his mind based on what ‘the Party’ decided.

No surprise that has struck fear into the in campaign supporters who as usual just resort to the same old anti Farage bs because that is the only argument that they have.Against the facts of being part of a scam which only benefits the CBI and its cronies like the Cons and the idiots in Labour who are like rabbits caught in the headlights at present.At least until Labour finally realises that Federalism and the European free labour market,and the fact that the EU is run by the Germans for the benefit of the Germans and with Eastern Europe being in it for what it can get,is definitely counter productive from the point of view of the Brit working class.On that note it seems ironic,but not surprising,to see a UKIP type policy headline in that hypocritical bastion of the Socialist/Labour press the Mirror.

mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/ne … 00-5234220

In which case it is Cameron who has more to fear than Farage in an environment in which the remaining Labour vote is moving ever closer towards joining the UKIP one hopefully to merge just in time for the EU referendum.At which point even more ironically it will be Cameron and the Cons who will be calling on the help of their ‘SNP’ ‘allies’ in a doomed attempt to save the EU Federalist dream.When Labour finally realise that that its own Socialist driven,pro immigration,Federalist agenda is just an electoral liability to it.As shown by the hypocritical bs being spouted by those like Cooper for example.

In which case it will be interesting to find out how many Labour MP’s will be willing to keep betting their jobs against an increasing rising tide of anti immigration anti EU feeling within the Labour voter base.Which probably better late than never is finally realising that continuing to support the idea of race to the bottom free Labour markets and being ruled by the Germans and making Germany and Eastern Europe richer at our expense,is like turkeys voting for Christmas.

Meanwhile if all the pro EU,CBI supporting,pro immigration agenda has to argue against all that,is to say ‘drivel’ then great that’s even better.

Especially when those SNP voters realise that Sturgeon is prepared to sell out to the Cons to keep ‘the UK’ in the EU.

[billyhunt]

Of course he brought it on himself, he’s the one who said he would stand down, did anyone dare say to him “but nige, what if you don’t win?”. He thought he was king, no chance of losing, his grasp of local politics on a national scale have been shown up for what they are, non existent.
The rest is, once again, your oft quoted diatribe on your opinion of what you think is going on. As usual it’s another trip into fantasyland.
I’m sure the government & all of the EU are panicking over what ukip will come up with. Let’s face it, they have 1 MP, they have a very small presence in the EU, they have a leader that can’t make his mind up, what’s not to worry about.
Face facts, when it comes to the big issues people in this country just don’t trust them.

[carryfast]

BillyHunt:
Of course he brought it on himself, he’s the one who said he would stand down, did anyone dare say to him “but nige, what if you don’t win?”. He thought he was king, no chance of losing, his grasp of local politics on a national scale have been shown up for what they are, non existent.
The rest is, once again, your oft quoted diatribe on your opinion of what you think is going on. As usual it’s another trip into fantasyland.
I’m sure the government & all of the EU are panicking over what ukip will come up with. Let’s face it, they have 1 MP, they have a very small presence in the EU, they have a leader that can’t make his mind up, what’s not to worry about.
Face facts, when it comes to the big issues people in this country just don’t trust them.

Feel free to post any ‘facts’ which would show that :

Farage didn’t change his mind about leaving owing to ( correct ) Party pressure for him to stay on the basis that he is its best asset.

Or which would show that UKIP’s presence in the EU parliament doesn’t amount to something ( a lot ) more than ‘small’.

Or which doesn’t show ( a lot ) more than 1 MP in the UK parliament assuming that the Cons weren’t saved by a dodgy electoral system.

Or any ‘facts’ that would show that the Labour Party isn’t now running around like a headless chicken.Because the Party’s pro immigration,pro EU,pro CBI,ideology doesn’t match a working class voter base that is finally starting to realise that it no longer wants to vote on the basis of Turkey’s voting for Christmas.By putting in another bunch of pro immigration,pro EU,CBI supporting Cons calling themselves ‘New Labour’.

Or any ‘facts’ which wouldn’t show that Cameron probably already knows that,so long as Farage remains leader of UKIP,then any EU referendum won’t be as easy for the in campaign to win as it was in 1975.Which explains all the grovelling to the so called Scottish ‘Nationalists’ for their ‘help’ if/when push comes to shove in that regard either in the form of the in campaign.Or possibly more like the war he’ll kick off amongst his own MP’s by going back on the ‘promise’ of a referendum.

The ‘fact’ is,in that situation,Labour have an open goal just by making a sharp turn towards UKIP’s ideas,which ironically is where most of its lost voter base went.The report posted by the Mirror not looking good from Cameron’s point of view in that regard being that it arguably shows the start of Labour’s inevitable change of course in that regard.IE more or less where we ( would have been ) before the referendum in 1975 assuming that Shore and Powell had won the campaign instead of Wilson and his ally Thatcher.

[billyhunt]

Did he say he would stand down if he didn’t win? He didn’t win, he didn’t stand down. That my friend is a “fact”. The reason, no matter how you try to spin it, is irrelevant.
ukip have 1 MP of the 650 available places. The voting system used is the same used in this country for years. We had a referendum to see if the public wanted a change to an alternative system & they voted not to. That my friend is a "fact.
UKIP have 23 meps of the total of 751 seats, that is a small enough number in the European Parliament to render them useless in a place where the majority are for the European dream. That my friend is a “fact”.
I don’t know, or care, what the Labour Party are up to, as you are not privy to the inner
workings and as such are dealing in you usual fantasies I suspect you don’t know either. That my friend is a “fact”.
I dont think it matters to Cameron who is in charge of ukip, or any other party for that matter, he knows he will have a tough job on his hands. You being a lover of all things nige will assume it’s all down to him if we vote to leave, and blame the dodgy voting system if we vote to stay in. That my friend is not a “fact” but my opinion.
The chances of labour doing a u turn & joining ukip is, quite possibly, one of the stupidest things I’ve seen on here. That my friend is a “fact”
While I’m on, where did all of Nigel’s tanks end up?, you know, the ones he was going to park on the lawn outside the Houses of Parliament.