Election 2015 exit poll

OUT OF HOURS BULLY'S TRUCKSTOP BAR (INTERACTIVE)
221

BillyHunt:

Carryfast:
In this case people should be thanking Farage and his followers for trying to stop the same thing ever happening in Europe before it ever has a chance to start. :wink:

How good is that Saint farage? Fresh from gracing the kippers with yet more of his presence he’s now only gone & stopped civil war in Europe! I must have misjudged him, unlike all those horrible people that didn’t vote for him. What a guy!

Bearing in mind that he hasn’t won the argument ( yet ) and that the EU isn’t ( yet ) the Federal USE that people like Juncker and his UK supporters want.We’re obviously talking in terms of foresight and a situation facing generations of Europeans who are possibly yet to be born.So as I said good reason for Farage to be thanked for staying with the anti Federalist/EU cause,at least by those who understand the gravity of the issues in question. :bulb:

222

BillyHunt:
the truth is,that nobody knows what’s going to happen next week let alone next year.

Which doesn’t seem to fit the pre election propaganda related to the economy.

While assuming we maintain the current levels of imports and immigration and the resulting trade deficit and over supplied labour market and remain a service industry based economy and resulting downward pressure on incomes in real terms.It isn’t rocket science to predict where the economy is heading sooner or later.

223

BeardedBlunder:

Munchkin:
Funny how nobody has mentioned the Tory plan to make striking for a better deal more difficult then if you do strike the company can bring in agency to cover the job! Tories showing their usual disdain for the working man. Hard to believe so many “wofking man” drivers voted to be downtrodden and treated as a commodity but you make your bed…

Why’s it worth even mentioning?

  1. Employers have always been at liberty to bring in temporary cover (assuming they can find some that will pass a picket).
  2. If a proposed strike is about something so inconsequential that more than half can’t even be bothered to vote on the action, just maybe it’s not justified?

so there needs to be at least half the people to vote ?

yet there only need to be 33% of the country needs to vote for cons ?

there name says it all as there a con

224

BillyHunt:

desypete:
dear billy japs eye

if it wasn’t for ukip my friend your party would never have included a referendum on Europe, if they didn’t have that offer included they would of felt the full weight of the public like labour felt it as they didnt think the issue on europe was important enough for them or they didnt trust the public to have a vote, well look what happend to labour they got a defeat, the torys won only because the people knew they would get a referendum on the issue they care about most and thats getting out of europe

its all come about because of ukip and its excelent leader who shows up the policitcal correct lot for what they are, king nigel might be a bit of a toff himself but he certainly talks like one of the lads, he has the same views as many in the country do and he is not scared to say so in public and no matter how much attacking anyone does towards him he just gets bigger and bigger

if they attack him over him staying on as leader or try to make people think they can not trust him as he isnt a man of his word, well the man in the street trust him more than any of the others, they know he did quit but the bosses wouldnt let him go so he didnt go back on his word at all and being honest the whole of the uk would know this man is what politics needs, someone who will kick people up there backsides

listen if he gets under your skin billy he gets my vote for that alone

now we can look forward to the day we get a vote to close the doors.

as for me going to find myself a bride in another country old billy japs eye i changed my mind since nigel has decided he will fight on i guess i will have to follow suit and carry on the fight as well

it happend in life we can say things and then change our minds you know ?

Ok, if Saint Nigel has the full support of the public, how come they didn’t vote him into parliament? He couldn’t even con enough people in a constituency he chose to vote for him. I know that’s nothing new to him, he is a failure when it come to winning elections having lost so many before. Face facts, people just don’t trust him, and never will, with anything remotely serious, that much is obvious with the lack of MPs they have. The man in the street may say the agree with him but they don’t want a loser like him having anything to do with running a country, he’ll say something one day and change his mind the next.
Gets under my skin? I think not. It just amuses me greatly when normally sane people jump on the latest bandwagon and start giving it the big “we are”. It’s like the emperors new clothes all over again, the blind leading the dim so to speak.
I for one am glad you’re staying, you weren’t going anywhere were you, you little tease, just like Saint Nigel. I’m glad you’ll be around to see what happens to your glorious bunch of clowns when the British public return an “in” vote to stay in Europe. You couldn’t do me a favour & film yourself as the results come in could you? Your face as you see all your hopes dashed, again, would be priceless.
As your not going off to purchase a bride does this mean you will be doing a spot of handball? They say you meet a better class of person when you take yourself in hand, but in your case I’m not so sure. :laughing:

its true he didn’t get a seat, the council won in the same area for ukip yet the leader didn’t get his seat

i dont know why that is ? other than people would of been more worried about letting labour in, also the torys had already back peddled like they do when they knew they were facing defeat and included a referendum on Europe
they would never have put that in there manifesto if it wasn’t for the greatest ali Farage

ukip got the referendum billy we won, we got people to stand up and put europe as a top agenda, the doors will soon close billy as there is no way they can try to fix this result, the public will get a vote and all votes will be counted. you had better hope jappy that people dont feel as strongly over eurpope as seems to be the case

why else would the torys even bother to give us a referendum if it wasn’t such a hot topic and that people are really up in arms about it, there fed up with political correct nutters like you lord eye, who are hell bent on seeing more and more cheap labour come in and under cut wages, forcing people to earn a lot less

its ok for you as you have made a few quid your not one of the young ones any more who can not ever get a mortage let alone find anywhere to live that they can afford, thanks to the goon squads who let in the cheap labour

maybe this problem will have to get even worse ? maybe billy your kids will have to lose there jobs and there jobs be given to someone from overseas who will do it for half there wages ?

maybe thats the only thing that will wake you up is if it hits you in your wallet

but i am so looking forward to the vote and i hope you will be as sick as a parrot as you see the people stand up and be counted on this issue, it will be just like the scots did when they stuck 2 fingers up to all the main partys and returned 56 snp mps

i still think that ukip should have had far more than 1 mp with 4 million votes compared to the snp but thats the way it goes

the main thing is we have got a referendum to fight for now so ukip won billy

225

desypete:

BeardedBlunder:

Munchkin:
Funny how nobody has mentioned the Tory plan to make striking for a better deal more difficult then if you do strike the company can bring in agency to cover the job! Tories showing their usual disdain for the working man. Hard to believe so many “wofking man” drivers voted to be downtrodden and treated as a commodity but you make your bed…

Why’s it worth even mentioning?

  1. Employers have always been at liberty to bring in temporary cover (assuming they can find some that will pass a picket).
  2. If a proposed strike is about something so inconsequential that more than half can’t even be bothered to vote on the action, just maybe it’s not justified?

so there needs to be at least half the people to vote ?

yet there only need to be 33% of the country needs to vote for cons ?

there name says it all as there a con

You want to argue that? 50% turnout for a strike vote 50% of them (plus 1 person) votes to strike, simple sums mean 25% of workers (plus one worker) voted to strike, last time I looked 25 was less than 33.

Can’t see that a minimum of 25% support is setting the bar that high to legitimise strike action.

Perhaps 50% should have to vote in favour instead of merely requiring 50% turnout? Just to match your ideals?
I could support that as a way to deter unions from playing political games…

[edit] I could also support requiring everyone to vote in general elections as the Aussies do [/edit]

226

BeardedBlunder:
You want to argue that? 50% turnout for a strike vote 50% of them (plus 1 person) votes to strike, simple sums mean 25% of workers (plus one worker) voted to strike, last time I looked 25 was less than 33.

Can’t see that a minimum of 25% support is setting the bar that high to legitimise strike action.

Perhaps 50% should have to vote in favour instead of merely requiring 50% turnout? Just to match your ideals?
I could support that as a way to deter unions from playing political games…

[edit] I could also support requiring everyone to vote in general elections as the Aussies do [/edit]

As far as I remember it the original plan was actually more than 50% of those ‘eligible’ to vote in a strike etc ballot required for a ‘majority’ under the intended rules. :confused:

Which would be fair enough.Just so long as it takes more than 50% of the overall number of all those ‘eligible’ to vote in a general election for any party to be able to claim a ‘majority’.Which certainly wouldn’t be possible under the present electoral system which as we know works under a system of variable arbitrary vote count representation.

Although the idea of ‘party’ majority in the house is then surely based on the idea of a pre supposed ‘block vote’ under the whip anyway.As opposed to a free individual vote based on the idea of one MP one vote and the abolition of the whip. :bulb:

IE most of the anti union ballot ‘reform’ ideas are based on ideological hypocrisy.Which is itself based on the CBI version of ‘Capitalism’ that is pre disposed to minimising wage levels as opposed to maximising them.

The fact is,in an economy that is going down the tubes,because of lack of wage growth,it takes some really stupid thinking to then think that weakening union powers in maintaining and improving wage levels,is the answer.Let alone then adding insult to injury to the issue by importing more cheap immigrant labour.Then adding even more to the trade deficit by continuing to import more cheap products from low wage economies. :open_mouth: :unamused:

On that note,in terms of the difference between a Nationalist government,with an economic policy based along Fordist Capitalism lines,then we’d arguably be talking about the difference between the French FN policy v UKIP anyway.Which is a different issue for after,hopefully,an out vote.

The simple question in that case being how can a protectionist economic policy,that protects domestic workers’ living standards, possibly be considered as so called ‘right wing’.

227

Comparing apples to oranges anyhow, elections are different from yes/no votes so no comparison of any kind is truly valid, start comparing them to a proportional system and to make them “match” you end up with a 66% pro strike vote requiring 1 in 3 to attend work, completely nonsensical.

And I believe the bar is as I stated except for “critical industries” where 40% of those “eligible to vote” is the current proposal as reported by BBC news.

228

BeardedBlunder:
Comparing apples to oranges anyhow, elections are different from yes/no votes so no comparison of any kind is truly valid, start comparing them to a proportional system and to make them “match” you end up with a 66% pro strike vote requiring 1 in 3 to attend work, completely nonsensical.

And I believe the bar is as I stated except for “critical industries” where 40% of those “eligible to vote” is the current proposal as reported by BBC news.

How is the principle,of basing the idea of claiming a ‘majority’ in the house requiring a 50% + representation of the ‘eligible’ electorate,or at least as near as makes no difference to that figure,comparing apples with oranges,wether it be PR in the house or union ballots.In the case of the former it would obviously require compulsory vote regulation and an option of none of the above on ballot papers.While in the case of union votes it would obviously require a rule of membership that includes compulsory voting in union ballots.I don’t see any problems in either case and it would probably be in the unions’ interests to claim the moral high ground by agreeing with such a scheme.

Also bearing in mind that Unions already work on the principle of secret ballots and no whip.Unlike political Parties in the house.Who’s calling who a bunch of hypocrites,taking advantage of an undemocratic system,using the block vote,under threat of ‘re shuffle’ or even expulsion for defying the Party leadership whip,now.Also bearing in mind that actual ‘decisions’ in the house are made by ‘yes’ or ‘no’ vote just the same. :bulb: :unamused:

Although the idea obviously leaves unions open to infiltration by an anti strike agenda with obvious implications regards ballot results.Just as secret ballots and no Party whip allowed could actually work against the interests of democracy in the house.IE Party politics has a right to expect the Party vote to follow the Party manifesto line.Just as union members have a right to expect union ballots to always reflect union policy of maximising of wage levels.

229

If you can’t by yourself see how comparing a simple yes / no to “which of these multiple options shall we have” is comparing apples to oranges, then I’m done even trying to communicate with you, I’d do better trying to teach a rock calculus.

230

desypete:
its true he didn’t get a seat, the council won in the same area for ukip yet the leader didn’t get his seat
you are 100% correct, he didn’t win the seat, how many times is that now DP? Seven or eight.
i dont know why that is ? other than people would of been more worried about letting labour in, also the torys had already back peddled like they do when they knew they were facing defeat and included a referendum on Europe
they would never have put that in there manifesto if it wasn’t for the greatest ali Farage
the reason is simple DP, people just don’t trust him, nothing to do with labour I’m afraid. People don’t seem to mind who is in at council level as long as the bins get emptied, at national level they want someone they can trust, someone that won’t keep changing his mind, not some loser who breezes in and expects everyone to fall at his feet. oh, and who is Ali farage? One of his kids?
ukip got the referendum billy we won, we got people to stand up and put europe as a top agenda, the doors will soon close billy as there is no way they can try to fix this result, the public will get a vote and all votes will be counted. you had better hope jappy that people dont feel as strongly over eurpope as seems to be the case
yes there might be a referendum but, as I’ve said, it’s not a forgone conclusion, trust me when I tell you it will be a lot closer than people think.
why else would the torys even bother to give us a referendum if it wasn’t such a hot topic and that people are really up in arms about it, there fed up with political correct nutters like you lord eye, who are hell bent on seeing more and more cheap labour come in and under cut wages, forcing people to earn a lot less
who is Lord eye? I’m rubbish at anagrams.
its ok for you as you have made a few quid your not one of the young ones any more who can not ever get a mortage let alone find anywhere to live that they can afford, thanks to the goon squads who let in the cheap labour
no I’m not one of the young ones anymore, but when I was young I worked hard to get what I wanted, never sat around whining about how hard it was, expecting people to bale me out. House buying in the 70s was no picnic, rampant inflation, high unemployment, mortgage rates around 14%, oh yes, it was a doddle.
maybe this problem will have to get even worse ? maybe billy your kids will have to lose there jobs and there jobs be given to someone from overseas who will do it for half there wages ?
my kids are fine thanks, they learned from me & have their own places.
maybe thats the only thing that will wake you up is if it hits you in your wallet

but i am so looking forward to the vote and i hope you will be as sick as a parrot as you see the people stand up and be counted on this issue, it will be just like the scots did when they stuck 2 fingers up to all the main partys and returned 56 snp mps

i still think that ukip should have had far more than 1 mp with 4 million votes compared to the snp but thats the way it goes
but they didn’t, and now I see the in fighting has started, see what I mean, even people in his own party think he should step down. I think I might just sit back this summer and watch them implode. Whose bandwagon will you hop on next DP?
the main thing is we have got a referendum to fight for now so ukip won billy

theyve won the square root of F-all I’m afraid, and long may that last.
" He is the messiah, and I should know, I’ve followed a few"

231

BeardedBlunder:
If you can’t by yourself see how comparing a simple yes / no to “which of these multiple options shall we have” is comparing apples to oranges, then I’m done even trying to communicate with you, I’d do better trying to teach a rock calculus.

I did warn you that you’re wasting your time. The basis of all his arguments are the same & that is. put in any old garbage, as long as I’m the last to post I’ve won.

232

BeardedBlunder:
If you can’t by yourself see how comparing a simple yes / no to “which of these multiple options shall we have” is comparing apples to oranges, then I’m done even trying to communicate with you, I’d do better trying to teach a rock calculus.

I could say the same about anyone,trying to suggest that the definition of any party claiming to have a ‘majority’ in the house,doesn’t at least needs to show that it has an electoral mandate that exceeds more than 50% of the ‘eligible’ electorate.Let alone the ‘block vote’ implications of a policy decision making process based on such a representation system as opposed to referendum.

So what would you say in the case of the union ballot system being replaced by delegation of the decision making process,as to industrial action,to the respective union leaderships.With the membership just voting on who is to represent them based on whoever gets the largest vote as a percentage of just those who voted.Which would still be a more democratic system than how we elect our government to represent us.Although I can imagine the CBI claims of an undemocratic system based on an unrepresentative mandate and block voting in that case. :unamused:

233

BillyHunt:

BeardedBlunder:
If you can’t by yourself see how comparing a simple yes / no to “which of these multiple options shall we have” is comparing apples to oranges, then I’m done even trying to communicate with you, I’d do better trying to teach a rock calculus.

I did warn you that you’re wasting your time. The basis of all his arguments are the same & that is. put in any old garbage, as long as I’m the last to post I’ve won.

No I’ve won when the opposition obviously run out of ideas to oppose my arguments.

As for Farage as I said it seems strange as to how his electoral mandate as an MEP is conveniently ignored by anyone who supports the idea of the EU and EU membership. :unamused:

234

See what I mean?

235

BillyHunt:

BeardedBlunder:
If you can’t by yourself see how comparing a simple yes / no to “which of these multiple options shall we have” is comparing apples to oranges, then I’m done even trying to communicate with you, I’d do better trying to teach a rock calculus.

I did warn you that you’re wasting your time. The basis of all his arguments are the same & that is. put in any old garbage, as long as I’m the last to post I’ve won.

Would appear so.

236

Carryfast:

BillyHunt:

BeardedBlunder:
If you can’t by yourself see how comparing a simple yes / no to “which of these multiple options shall we have” is comparing apples to oranges, then I’m done even trying to communicate with you, I’d do better trying to teach a rock calculus.

I did warn you that you’re wasting your time. The basis of all his arguments are the same & that is. put in any old garbage, as long as I’m the last to post I’ve won.

No I’ve won when the opposition obviously run out of ideas to oppose my arguments.
no, the vast majority just lose the will to live.
As for Farage as I said it seems strange as to how his electoral mandate as an MEP is conveniently ignored by anyone who supports the idea of the EU and EU membership. :unamused:

When did you say that? It’s not ignored, it just looks odd that someone with a hatred of the European machine should love spending time in the place.

237

BillyHunt:
As for Farage as I said it seems strange as to how his electoral mandate as an MEP is conveniently ignored by anyone who supports the idea of the EU and EU membership. :unamused:

When did you say that? It’s not ignored, it just looks odd that someone with a hatred of the European machine should love spending time in the place.
[/quote]
You seem to be saying he should go because he hasn’t been elected as an MP.While it seems obvious that,when all the vagaries of the parliamentary election system and tactical voting,on the basis of a Con propaganda SNP threat that never was,are deducted,he is more than capable of defeating his opposition,as shown in the Euros.Within a Parliament that the Federalist in campaign obviously,by definition,regards as supreme over the uk parliament.

While from a UKIP support point of view it is obvious that UKIP can do more damage,to the Federalist EU agenda,from within it than it could in the UK parliament.Which obviously explains why the establishment is now so keen on trying to at least remove the threat of UKIP’s and the out campaign’s best hope in that regard being Farage’s leadership and high profile presence.In the run up to Cameron’s/CBI led campaign to keep us in at all costs.

The obvious question in that case being exactly what are the real motives of the campaign to remove Farage and exactly where does it originate from and why.IE bearing in mind the well known tricks of the EU Federalist cause described by Hannan,possible infiltration and propaganda destabilisation of it’s most outspoken and effective opponents in the form of UKIP and the French FN ,bearing in mind similar over emphasised ‘issues’ regarding supposed ‘in fighting’ in its case,wouldn’t seem to be out of the question.Bearing in mind the implications of a Frexit and Brexit to the whole Federalist scam. :bulb:

238

Carryfast:

BillyHunt:
As for Farage as I said it seems strange as to how his electoral mandate as an MEP is conveniently ignored by anyone who supports the idea of the EU and EU membership. :unamused:

When did you say that? It’s not ignored, it just looks odd that someone with a hatred of the European machine should love spending time in the place.

You seem to be saying he should go because he hasn’t been elected as an MP.While it seems obvious that,when all the vagaries of the parliamentary election system and tactical voting,on the basis of a Con propaganda SNP threat that never was,are deducted,he is more than capable of defeating his opposition,as shown in the Euros.Within a Parliament that the Federalist in campaign obviously,by definition,regards as supreme over the uk parliament.

While from a UKIP support point of view it is obvious that UKIP can do more damage,to the Federalist EU agenda,from within it than it could in the UK parliament.Which obviously explains why the establishment is now so keen on trying to at least remove the threat of UKIP’s and the out campaign’s best hope in that regard being Farage’s leadership and high profile presence.In the run up to Cameron’s/CBI led campaign to keep us in at all costs.

The obvious question in that case being exactly what are the real motives of the campaign to remove Farage and exactly where does it originate from and why.IE bearing in mind the well known tricks of the EU Federalist cause described by Hannan,possible infiltration and propaganda destabilisation of it’s most outspoken and effective opponents in the form of UKIP and the French FN ,bearing in mind similar over emphasised ‘issues’ regarding supposed ‘in fighting’ in its case,wouldn’t seem to be out of the question.Bearing in mind the implications of a Frexit and Brexit to the whole Federalist scam. :bulb:
[/quote]
Your wrong, what I am saying is that, he said he would go if he didn’t win, he didn’t win & hasn’t gone, what part of that is confusing you. Whatever the party came up with after that is irrelevant, wether he should have said it in the first place is irrelevant. He could have taken the summer off, just working at his favourite place, then come back to take over or have a leadership vote. I think he’s made a huge mistake but that’s just my opinion, not fact.
I’ll ask again as you didn’t answer. When did you say it seems strange etc?

239

BillyHunt:

Carryfast:

BillyHunt:
As for Farage as I said it seems strange as to how his electoral mandate as an MEP is conveniently ignored by anyone who supports the idea of the EU and EU membership. :unamused:

When did you say that? It’s not ignored, it just looks odd that someone with a hatred of the European machine should love spending time in the place.

You seem to be saying he should go because he hasn’t been elected as an MP.While it seems obvious that,when all the vagaries of the parliamentary election system and tactical voting,on the basis of a Con propaganda SNP threat that never was,are deducted,he is more than capable of defeating his opposition,as shown in the Euros.Within a Parliament that the Federalist in campaign obviously,by definition,regards as supreme over the uk parliament.

While from a UKIP support point of view it is obvious that UKIP can do more damage,to the Federalist EU agenda,from within it than it could in the UK parliament.Which obviously explains why the establishment is now so keen on trying to at least remove the threat of UKIP’s and the out campaign’s best hope in that regard being Farage’s leadership and high profile presence.In the run up to Cameron’s/CBI led campaign to keep us in at all costs.

The obvious question in that case being exactly what are the real motives of the campaign to remove Farage and exactly where does it originate from and why.IE bearing in mind the well known tricks of the EU Federalist cause described by Hannan,possible infiltration and propaganda destabilisation of it’s most outspoken and effective opponents in the form of UKIP and the French FN ,bearing in mind similar over emphasised ‘issues’ regarding supposed ‘in fighting’ in its case,wouldn’t seem to be out of the question.Bearing in mind the implications of a Frexit and Brexit to the whole Federalist scam. :bulb:

Your wrong, what I am saying is that, he said he would go if he didn’t win, he didn’t win & hasn’t gone, what part of that is confusing you. Whatever the party came up with after that is irrelevant, wether he should have said it in the first place is irrelevant. He could have taken the summer off, just working at his favourite place, then come back to take over or have a leadership vote. I think he’s made a huge mistake but that’s just my opinion, not fact.
I’ll ask again as you didn’t answer. When did you say it seems strange etc?
[/quote]
First sentence here.

viewtopic.php?f=15&t=126024&start=180#p1966811

While going by your previous statements you seemed to be suggesting that you weren’t just worried about Farage making a ‘mistake’.If I’ve read it right it seemed to be an obvious attack on Farage from the point of view of the pro EU membership side of the argument.In which case as I said it seems strange as to why anyone who isn’t a UKIP supporter/voter would/should have any interest whatsoever on the internal workings of the Party.Especially when that interest seems to be trying to make the case that he should go because of his ‘failure’ to win a seat in the uk GE.Bearing in mind UKIP’s and his success in the Euros and which any so called EU membership supporter,would be expected to recognise more than a uk parliamentary result. :unamused:

It seems to me the pro EU campaign is protesting too much about a subject which would logically be expected to have absolutely zb all to do with them or be of any interest to them whatsoever.While I’m guessing that Stuart Wheeler’s previous business interests probably had and still has links to the CBI which of course is well known for its rabid support of the in campaign.

In which case it seems equally ‘strange’ as to why a staunch previous Con supporter and donor Stuart Wheeler for example would,as expected,be making no direct comments against the CBI in that regard.But then suddenly decides to turn all that on its head by changing ‘allegiance’ to UKIP in order to obviously gain ‘influence’ in a Party which (1) he knows is led by Farage and (2) by implication stands against CBI policy regards EU membership and now who,surprise surprise,seems to want Farage out. :confused: :bulb:

As for Farage he could probably do a lot worse than to walk away and set up a new Party along similar lines but along the lines of Shore’s previous policies and as such cut his previous ties to the big business agenda completely.Thereby,trying to get the unions and the working class onside,for a nationalist protectionist economic agenda and do it fast.

Assuming that doesn’t work then the country is probably lost to the big business agenda and all the implications,including being a state of the USE,regards same. :bulb: :frowning:

240

So you think that, because I’m not a ukip supporter I shouldn’t have any interest in them, whereas you are free to pontificate long & loud about the workings of any party you wish.
Now you think the millionaire backer is wrong and in the pockets of the cbi, wasn’t he a top man only last week, seems the prophet isn’t the only person you’re not allowed to criticise. All he’s saying is that Saint farage should take a back seat over the summer, then come back, oddly enough that’s what he said he’d do before changing his mind. It’s not going to end well.