AndrewG:
Interview under caution?? Is this really how harsh DVSA is over a few 'missing; km’s and a few minutes over here and there? Takes BS to a whole new level…just reading how ridiculously hard it is to work in the UK now without these kinds of penalties makes me so glad im not there anymore, hard enough to earn a crust without out worrying about this kind of crap…
Lets look at “a missing few km here and there.”
You get to the end of a 15hr day and arrive at Felixstowe docks and pull your card. You don’t go to bed but instead decide to load your box which is going to be a couple of hours before its available. You go load it, go do the paperwork, drive to the parking area and spend 3/4hrs in total doing all of that. 9hrs after pulling the card you set off on the delivery. You’ve driven just a couple of kilometres which are missing but you’ve worked 4hrs of the 9 you were claiming you were parked up taking your daily rest, did a 20hr working day and then set off on another days work with just 5hrs “daily rest” so you can bet they’re interested in a few missing km.
Conor:
Lets look at “a missing few km here and there.”
You get to the end of a 15hr day and arrive at Felixstowe docks and pull your card. You don’t go to bed but instead decide to load your box which is going to be a couple of hours before its available. You go load it, go do the paperwork, drive to the parking area and spend 3/4hrs in total doing all of that. 9hrs after pulling the card you set off on the delivery. You’ve driven just a couple of kilometres which are missing but you’ve worked 4hrs of the 9 you were claiming you were parked up taking your daily rest, did a 20hr working day and then set off on another days work with just 5hrs “daily rest” so you can bet they’re interested in a few missing km.
It would have been easier to have said “I didn’t read the original post”.
Conor:
Lets look at “a missing few km here and there.”
You get to the end of a 15hr day and arrive at Felixstowe docks and pull your card. You don’t go to bed but instead decide to load your box which is going to be a couple of hours before its available. You go load it, go do the paperwork, drive to the parking area and spend 3/4hrs in total doing all of that. 9hrs after pulling the card you set off on the delivery. You’ve driven just a couple of kilometres which are missing but you’ve worked 4hrs of the 9 you were claiming you were parked up taking your daily rest, did a 20hr working day and then set off on another days work with just 5hrs “daily rest” so you can bet they’re interested in a few missing km.
It would have been easier to have said “I didn’t read the original post”.
Conor:
Lets look at “a missing few km here and there.”
You get to the end of a 15hr day and arrive at Felixstowe docks and pull your card. You don’t go to bed but instead decide to load your box which is going to be a couple of hours before its available. You go load it, go do the paperwork, drive to the parking area and spend 3/4hrs in total doing all of that. 9hrs after pulling the card you set off on the delivery. You’ve driven just a couple of kilometres which are missing but you’ve worked 4hrs of the 9 you were claiming you were parked up taking your daily rest, did a 20hr working day and then set off on another days work with just 5hrs “daily rest” so you can bet they’re interested in a few missing km.
It would have been easier to have said “I didn’t read the original post”.
Your 16 mins short of a full break, well in Court that actually becomes working two shifts…Non Stop…Same with 4 reduced breaks, that is another
two shifts without a break, I used to sit in court listening to the VOSA legal rep coming out with all this garbage, painting me as a possible mass
murderer. Now legal representation, never found them worth a light but you might be given the chance to plead guilty by letter, could be cheaper
for you and it’s cheaper for Vosa but you do write a letter of mitigation pointing out the stress you were under due to your beloved Grandmother/Cat/
Dog/benefit scrounging neighbours/causing you sleepless nights. Since it might be your company they are after no need for you to help Vosa to
do their job so when interviewed say the absolute minimum no matter what crap they offer. They are now a self financing company,you/we/us
are their revenue, don’t make it too easy for them.
Got to love Conor’s signature, by the way. I mean, do we believe every scientist who has ever researched global warming, anywhere in the world, or do we believe the opinionated Yorkshire truck driver we meet in the Tesco RDC?
Got to love Conor’s signature, by the way. I mean, do we believe every scientist who has ever researched global warming, anywhere in the world, or do we believe the opinionated Yorkshire truck driver we meet in the Tesco RDC?
Oh the driver met in Tosco’s RDC every time…
Years ago we were playing on a driver into green ■■■■■■ save the whale/ pygmy ect and the subject went onto waste oil, told him i just dig a hole and pour it in, after all thats where it came from (not serious btw)…well… it seemed like his whole world caved in and were then lectured about being irresponsible destroyers of the planet…
NeillG:
Hi
I have just received a letter from the traffic commissioner telling me to attend an interview with DVSA about “Discrepancies” following an investigation into a firm I used to work for.
It states that the interview will be under caution.
The details they have sent me show that they are investigating me for 7 accounts of unaccounted for mileage and 2 infringements.
After looking at the details they have sent me, it seems the 7 counts of unaccounted for mileage are all the same thing and are all to do with recording my mileage on my company timesheet, (eg I record on my timesheet mileage for say London to Southampton docks, Then when I leave the docks I record my mileage from the docks to wherever, it is the amount of kilometres driven whilst on the dock which is in their eyes unaccounted for), my tacho card is still in and continues to records the mileage.
1st Infringement is for not taking 9 hours rest in a day, short by 16 minutes, not really sure why this happened.
2nd Infringement is for taking 4 reduced rests in a week, that was just a complete mess on my side, I hold my hands up to that. 1 day was 10 hours 50 minutes so only 10 minutes short of making it a legal week.
If you are still reading, thanks, and do I really need to take legal representation with me for this, and what am I looking at getting for the offences?
Thanks
Neill
DO NOT ATTEND! And never take an ( interview?! ) UNDER CAUTION! EVER!
Personally, having worked in law enforcement in another life, I wouldn’t go with the advice not to attend. End of the day DVSA aren’t going to be doing something they aren’t allowed to do and if they really want to speak to you and you don’t attend you could just end up getting summoned to court and be in a worse position because you’ve not taken your chance to explain whatever is they want to know in interview.
It’s right though that if you were just there as a “witness” against the company then it wouldn’t be under caution. It’s only under caution if your suspected of something, but that doesn’t necessarily mean you need to worry. If a copper asks for you driving documents (insurance/mot etc) at the side of th road and you haven’t got it and he asks you to go and produce them at a police station then he’s supposed to caution you. So don’t get too worried about that.
Just go and tell the truth, but think before you speak and if your not happy with something doesn’t appear relevant then say no comment.
Your card was in for this missing mileage wasn’t it? If it was then you’ve nothing to worry about and taking the fine (if it gets to that) for the infringements will be cheaper.
If on the other hand your card wasn’t in and that’s why the mileage is missing then I’d suggest a solicitor.
NeillG:
Hi
I have just received a letter from the traffic commissioner telling me to attend an interview with DVSA about “Discrepancies” following an investigation into a firm I used to work for.
It states that the interview will be under caution.
The details they have sent me show that they are investigating me for 7 accounts of unaccounted for mileage and 2 infringements.
After looking at the details they have sent me, it seems the 7 counts of unaccounted for mileage are all the same thing and are all to do with recording my mileage on my company timesheet, (eg I record on my timesheet mileage for say London to Southampton docks, Then when I leave the docks I record my mileage from the docks to wherever, it is the amount of kilometres driven whilst on the dock which is in their eyes unaccounted for), my tacho card is still in and continues to records the mileage.
1st Infringement is for not taking 9 hours rest in a day, short by 16 minutes, not really sure why this happened.
2nd Infringement is for taking 4 reduced rests in a week, that was just a complete mess on my side, I hold my hands up to that. 1 day was 10 hours 50 minutes so only 10 minutes short of making it a legal week.
If you are still reading, thanks, and do I really need to take legal representation with me for this, and what am I looking at getting for the offences?
Thanks
Neill
DO NOT ATTEND! And never take an ( interview?! ) UNDER CAUTION! EVER!
^
This
Dont bother going, who are DVSA to command you to do so?? This ■■■■■ organisation seems to think theyre a law unto themselves…
“Interviews under caution are one of the primary tools used by the Police and DVSA to gather evidence against you or your business, either for the purpose of a possible Public Inquiry or criminal investigation. Importantly, just like police officers DVSA examiners have the power to conduct formal interviews under caution”
The problem I have with the under caution bit, is the dvsa are a private enterprise, and not a public body. There’s a whole other argument around objective enforcement that needs looking at too. What next? Bailiffs or heaven forbid, gatehouse hitlers being able to ask you questions under caution? Nanny state tactics
ROG:
Seems to me they are going after the company but need to find the same things wrong with many of the drivers
My guess would be they will give the drivers some warnings but come down heavy on the company
They are trying to prove that there was a culture of running bent, they are most likely not interested in the individual drivers, they want the owners/directors.
Agreed, but I do remember a couple of cases where they also prosecuted some of the drivers along with the company, but I’m sure those were the ones happy to go along with company’s policy.
remember the only way they can get the owners/directors/managers in court or in front of the tc is by getting and convicting the drivers of wrong doings and if there is convictions then they have the proof too take action against the owner/directors/managers.
NeillG:
Hi
I have just received a letter from the traffic commissioner telling me to attend an interview with DVSA about “Discrepancies” following an investigation into a firm I used to work for.
It states that the interview will be under caution.
The details they have sent me show that they are investigating me for 7 accounts of unaccounted for mileage and 2 infringements.
After looking at the details they have sent me, it seems the 7 counts of unaccounted for mileage are all the same thing and are all to do with recording my mileage on my company timesheet, (eg I record on my timesheet mileage for say London to Southampton docks, Then when I leave the docks I record my mileage from the docks to wherever, it is the amount of kilometres driven whilst on the dock which is in their eyes unaccounted for), my tacho card is still in and continues to records the mileage.
1st Infringement is for not taking 9 hours rest in a day, short by 16 minutes, not really sure why this happened.
2nd Infringement is for taking 4 reduced rests in a week, that was just a complete mess on my side, I hold my hands up to that. 1 day was 10 hours 50 minutes so only 10 minutes short of making it a legal week.
If you are still reading, thanks, and do I really need to take legal representation with me for this, and what am I looking at getting for the offences?
Thanks
Neill
DO NOT ATTEND! And never take an ( interview?! ) UNDER CAUTION! EVER!
^
This
Dont bother going, who are DVSA to command you to do so?? This [zb] organisation seems to think theyre a law unto themselves…
A refusal to attend said interview with DVSA would most likely result in an invite to your local traffic commissioner to explane your conduct as a vocational licence holder.
Personally I would prefer to talk to vosa/dvsa rather than the TC.
OVLOV JAY:
The problem I have with the under caution bit, is the dvsa are a private enterprise, and not a public body. There’s a whole other argument around objective enforcement that needs looking at too. What next? Bailiffs or heaven forbid, gatehouse hitlers being able to ask you questions under caution? Nanny state tactics
British transport police are a private police force yet still have full powers to do everything.
The civil nuclear constabulary again are private.
RSPCA are a charity yet can interview under caution.
I’m sure there’s more. Point being the fact DVSA are private doesn’t matter one little bit. They’ve still been given authority to act in the capacity in which they do, which includes conducting interviews under caution and taking people or companies to court.
So by saying I’m not going to attend because they are a private Micky mouse organisation with no actual authority to do anything will be a mistake, as they do have some authority. Don’t like that then start a protest and petition and get the law changed. Until then, I’d advise you to attend if you don’t want to make whatever it is worse.
Unfortunately there is some terrible advice being given by some people.
Do not ignore the request - it will only get worse. Attend and tell the truth. Failure will almost definitely mean your conduct as a vocational driver being brought into question and a TC can take your licence without the courts being involved.
Drivers and operators need to grasp the fact that history can come back to haunt you. Just because it happened ‘x’ months ago or at an old job doesn’t mean it won’t be found. Operators keep records a minimum of 12 months.
For some reason DVSA have compared VU downloads to driver card downloads and seen something that indicates a problem. If the miles you drove in the dock were on your card I doubt they’d be asking these questions.
The daily rest infringements, clearly the company hasn’t been able to produce your print out to explain the problem and probably don’t have evidence they dealt with the infringements either.
Yes they are gathering evidence against the company but yes they can also report you to a court or the TC depending how old the problems are.
Seek legal advice - you probably have legal cover on your house insurance.
While you would expect an operator to keep any print out record with annotations explaining any discrepancy for 12 months, just how long is a driver expected to carry around an increasingly scruffy print out with explanations? Analogue discs would normally be retained by the driver for 28 days, so would that be the limit a driver is expected to keep these? Should such a print out become illegible, a driver could do a fresh copy and write whatever on the back, however this will have a date of printing on it, so leaving him open to an accusation of attempting to falsify an historic infringement. This becomes more serious should the operator for some reason be found to have failed to have retained his copy during an investigation. Some drivers who only work occasionally will have entries on their digicard dating back potentially a very long time, but will not have retained any print outs, leaving them in a difficult position if an employer is investigated.
cav551:
While you would expect an operator to keep any print out record with annotations explaining any discrepancy for 12 months, just how long is a driver expected to carry around an increasingly scruffy print out with explanations? Analogue discs would normally be retained by the driver for 28 days, so would that be the limit a driver is expected to keep these?
Legally required printouts should be carried by the driver for 28 days, then handed into the transport office if a printout hasn’t already been handed in.
cav551:
Should such a print out become illegible, a driver could do a fresh copy and write whatever on the back, however this will have a date of printing on it, so leaving him open to an accusation of attempting to falsify an historic infringement. This becomes more serious should the operator for some reason be found to have failed to have retained his copy during an investigation. Some drivers who only work occasionally will have entries on their digicard dating back potentially a very long time, but will not have retained any print outs, leaving them in a difficult position if an employer is investigated.
That’s a good reason for a driver to either keep copies of the printouts or keep records of such events.
Rowley010:
Your card was in for this missing mileage wasn’t it? If it was then you’ve nothing to worry about and taking the fine (if it gets to that) for the infringements will be cheaper.
If on the other hand your card wasn’t in and that’s why the mileage is missing then I’d suggest a solicitor.
Bearing in mind that the DVSA are calling it missing mileage the obvious other possibility is that the card was in but the DVSA say it wasn’t.It essentially needs a good solicitor sooner rather than later in either case and even moreso in that case.
) UNDER CAUTION!