Hi
I have just received a letter from the traffic commissioner telling me to attend an interview with DVSA about “Discrepancies” following an investigation into a firm I used to work for.
It states that the interview will be under caution.
The details they have sent me show that they are investigating me for 7 accounts of unaccounted for mileage and 2 infringements.
After looking at the details they have sent me, it seems the 7 counts of unaccounted for mileage are all the same thing and are all to do with recording my mileage on my company timesheet, (eg I record on my timesheet mileage for say London to Southampton docks, Then when I leave the docks I record my mileage from the docks to wherever, it is the amount of kilometres driven whilst on the dock which is in their eyes unaccounted for), my tacho card is still in and continues to records the mileage.
1st Infringement is for not taking 9 hours rest in a day, short by 16 minutes, not really sure why this happened.
2nd Infringement is for taking 4 reduced rests in a week, that was just a complete mess on my side, I hold my hands up to that. 1 day was 10 hours 50 minutes so only 10 minutes short of making it a legal week.
If you are still reading, thanks, and do I really need to take legal representation with me for this, and what am I looking at getting for the offences?
I dont think unaccounted mileage is a problem, so long as you can account for it, via the digi card, and they should match with your own records. maybe the company cant explain why there is a discrepancy in the mileage, and are putting the blame on the drivers?
Having insufficient daily rest is a clear offence ( maybe someone moved you on ! ) as an obstruction for eg. is a mitigation.
Taking 4 reduced rests in a week is also clearly an offence, and i would suspect that these 2 offences would lead to fines and or warnings providing you have no previous so to speak.
At the end of the day the old company is i suspect is under investigation, and they are merely trying to make a case against them. You didnt like the way they were pushing you, the reason why you left !!
Yes I do think that they are after the company, but i am not living in the area any more and never get that way to see some of the other drivers.
So do you think it is worth me paying the cost of a solicitor, or just go see them explain the time differences and take the heat for the 2 infringements, what is the worst they can give me?
How can it be lost mileage if it’s been recorded with the tacho card obviously also showing and being set to driving. While ‘if’ they’re saying that they’ve got evidence of the vehicle being driven in the yard without the driving time being accounted for on the relevant drivers’ tacho and as part of the break/daily rest regime that’s something else.Bearing in mind that a caution refers to the person being questioned being in the frame yes definitely get decent legal representation sooner rather than later.
One thing to get some mitigation on your side, tell them you left due to pressures and tight operating places upon you by the management. The fact they’re after the firm would suggest such practices anyway
NeillG:
Yes I do think that they are after the company, but i am not living in the area any more and never get that way to see some of the other drivers.
So do you think it is worth me paying the cost of a solicitor, or just go see them explain the time differences and take the heat for the 2 infringements, what is the worst they can give me?
Personally…
I would just go on my own and say what you’ve said here. The missing mileage isn’t any legal concern of DVSA,they have simply failed to realise that unrecorded driving was in the dock, however so long as it is recorded on your tacho then you’re in the clear on that one, there is no legal obligation to account for it on company paperwork.
I’d be surprised if they took enforcement action against the two infringements, but as it would probably cost £500+ to get a solicitor involved, I’d take my chances with that.
ROG:
Seems to me they are going after the company but need to find the same things wrong with many of the drivers
My guess would be they will give the drivers some warnings but come down heavy on the company
They are trying to prove that there was a culture of running bent, they are most likely not interested in the individual drivers, they want the owners/directors.
Does sound like a case building thing regarding the company itself going on mate. Regarding the mileage missing on company paper but on your card… company policy by the sounds of that so it’s not really something I could see they will do you for. They’ve got you bang to rights on the other issues though mate, and I personally wouldn’t pay a solicitor to stand up for me and plead any mitigation (not guilty isn’t going to work in reality is it) as you can do this yourself (suggestions above for both counts).
If you can get it down to being moved on or something and they accept that, all that’s left is not making a note on the back of a tacho printout for those days.
How long ago did you work for the company and what dates are the infringements? If it was a while ago I can’t see them being interested in fining you for them now, maybe an off the record telling off, but they are probably trying to find if the infringements are a case of you messing up, or if the company were encouraging it to get the job done. I’d just tell the truth, hold your hands up and say you made a couple of errors.
Your firm’s timesheet isn’t a legal document so I don’t see why they’re interested in it at all, unless you’ve stopped the night there and have pulled/ left the tacho out before picking up/ dropping a boxes either late or early in the day.
James the cat:
Missing mileage. Wasn’t missing mileage if card was in.
^ This.
While there’s an admission to the minor infringements so why the need for the interview under caution.The fact that they intend to question under caution regarding the alleged ‘missing mileage’ is why it’s essential to get legal representation.
Interview under caution?? Is this really how harsh DVSA is over a few 'missing; km’s and a few minutes over here and there? Takes BS to a whole new level…just reading how ridiculously hard it is to work in the UK now without these kinds of penalties makes me so glad im not there anymore, hard enough to earn a crust without out worrying about this kind of crap…
A interview under caution is an interview that is conducted in accordance with the Police and Criminal Evidence Act. The caution is administered at the start of the interview and must be given if you are being asked questions where it is suspected that you have committed an offence. The purpose of the caution is to warn you that although you have a right to remain silent, if you do so a jury may draw what is known as an “adverse inference” at any later trial.
NeillG:
Yes I do think that they are after the company, but i am not living in the area any more and never get that way to see some of the other drivers.
So do you think it is worth me paying the cost of a solicitor, or just go see them explain the time differences and take the heat for the 2 infringements, what is the worst they can give me?
Personally…
I would just go on my own and say what you’ve said here. The missing mileage isn’t any legal concern of DVSA,they have simply failed to realise that unrecorded driving was in the dock, however so long as it is recorded on your tacho then you’re in the clear on that one, there is no legal obligation to account for it on company paperwork.
I’d be surprised if they took enforcement action against the two infringements, but as it would probably cost £500+ to get a solicitor involved, I’d take my chances with that.
^^^^^^^^^^
+1…for something as pish at this then the solicitor will cost 10 times any fine…just because your invited,then its not a legal requirement ,your not existing to make their job any easier…same for plod…any time your invited for a chat,just means its easier for them to do you in the cop shop…let them come and arrest and charge you…if its not convenient for you to go,then why should you go and cost yourself loss of earnings etc…they play on their inferred superiority…id only go if it was unlawfull for me not to go,or if you decide to go anyway,then go on your own,and lie through your teeth touching your forelock continuously implying your giving them their place…your not obliged to voulenteer anything to them…keep yourself right,and just say you cant remember,theres no penalty for that…then come out laughing.
AndrewG:
Interview under caution?? Is this really how harsh DVSA is over a few 'missing; km’s and a few minutes over here and there? Takes BS to a whole new level…just reading how ridiculously hard it is to work in the UK now without these kinds of penalties makes me so glad im not there anymore, hard enough to earn a crust without out worrying about this kind of crap…
I doubt this is about a few missing Kms, it’s about building a case against a company we assume have been running bent for sometime.
To be honest from some of the things I know drivers being fined for in Spain that would get a warning during a roadside check in the UK. I’d worry more about a chat with the Spanish authorities than the UK.
ROG:
Seems to me they are going after the company but need to find the same things wrong with many of the drivers
My guess would be they will give the drivers some warnings but come down heavy on the company
They are trying to prove that there was a culture of running bent, they are most likely not interested in the individual drivers, they want the owners/directors.
Agreed, but I do remember a couple of cases where they also prosecuted some of the drivers along with the company, but I’m sure those were the ones happy to go along with company’s policy.
AndrewG:
Interview under caution?? Is this really how harsh DVSA is over a few 'missing; km’s and a few minutes over here and there? Takes BS to a whole new level…just reading how ridiculously hard it is to work in the UK now without these kinds of penalties makes me so glad im not there anymore, hard enough to earn a crust without out worrying about this kind of crap…
I doubt this is about a few missing Kms, it’s about building a case against a company we assume have been running bent for sometime.
To be honest from some of the things I know drivers being fined for in Spain that would get a warning during a roadside check in the UK. I’d worry more about a chat with the Spanish authorities than the UK.
Things you get pulled for here i agree would sometimes be a warning in the UK but vice versa,they know who to pull and those to leave alone, a lot will depend how much a company ‘contributes’ each year and to who. Certain ‘fines’ dont always end up back in the coffers…
While ‘if’ they’re saying that they’ve got evidence of the vehicle being driven in the yard without the driving time being accounted for on the relevant drivers’ tacho and as part of the break/daily rest regime that’s something else.Bearing in mind that a caution refers to the person being questioned being in the frame yes definitely get decent legal representation sooner rather than later. 