FELLOW TRUCKERS
A merry christmas to you all in these difficult times.Have any of you experience of being prosecuted for driving without the digital card in and over driving time as well.Now before some of you state the obvious and get on the high moral ground I am looking for advice not crucifiction .I have mitigating circumstances but will not go into too much detail here apart from the previous employer making off with 4 grand of my money because I was foolish enough to let my wages, expences etc mount up over 6 weeks and on arrival back to the yard after that 6 weeks found all moved out and creditors in a rage for their money.So far nothing has been recovered by anyone and he has disappeared into thin air.
Those of you with vision and perhaps hindsight of your own can see the picture getting clearer.It took me 5 weeks to find a job and with my cash gone i had no choice but to take up an offer from another haulier who shall we say doesnt abide by the rules except on a Sunday. So a routine check in Scotland brought this highly experienced trucker to an abrupt halt; well for at least 11 hours. On discharge from this enforced break I continued on my merry way (legally this time) for another 3 days (still legal) until low and behold another routine check in a different juristiction {England) uncovered the same previous alledged offences. So then my fellow friends or foe should I apply for my pension book early or will I be fined and nothing else happens. It is a first offence and will this be taken into account. I cannot afford the services of a solicitor for either so please only respond with constructive advice and for those of you still intent on hanging me from a cross you need to walk in my shoes before you condemn me to the lions as well.
galwayman:
FELLOW TRUCKERS
A merry christmas to you all in these difficult times.Have any of you experience of being prosecuted for driving without the digital card in and over driving time as well.Now before some of you state the obvious and get on the high moral ground I am looking for advice not crucifiction .I have mitigating circumstances but will not go into too much detail here apart from the previous employer making off with 4 grand of my money because I was foolish enough to let my wages, expences etc mount up over 6 weeks and on arrival back to the yard after that 6 weeks found all moved out and creditors in a rage for their money.So far nothing has been recovered by anyone and he has disappeared into thin air.
Those of you with vision and perhaps hindsight of your own can see the picture getting clearer.It took me 5 weeks to find a job and with my cash gone i had no choice but to take up an offer from another haulier who shall we say doesnt abide by the rules except on a Sunday. So a routine check in Scotland brought this highly experienced trucker to an abrupt halt; well for at least 11 hours. On discharge from this enforced break I continued on my merry way (legally this time) for another 3 days (still legal) until low and behold another routine check in a different juristiction {England) uncovered the same previous alledged offences. So then my fellow friends or foe should I apply for my pension book early or will I be fined and nothing else happens. It is a first offence and will this be taken into account. I cannot afford the services of a solicitor for either so please only respond with constructive advice and for those of you still intent on hanging me from a cross you need to walk in my shoes before you condemn me to the lions as well.
If i am reading this right (I might not be. been up since 2 am) VOSA have already spoken to you/seen the alledged offences in scotland and took no further action, and the SAME offences have been flagged up in ENGLAND??
If you could clear that up for me mate?
Depends on exactly what you were stoped for, and what you are looking at getting charged with.
Prob £300-£500 fine first offence, well from what ive heard of people getting done in the past for driving with false names on cards, or with blank tachos that was it.
But maybe they were just lucky.
You definatly need legal advice.
I would be thinking that you cant be prosecuted for the same offence twice but where I am unsure is the Scotland/England bit. I know they have different judicial systems and I am unsure as to how they correspond with each other regarding traffic law.
I am assuming it was VOSA, and that their “prosecution” was the in the Scotland incident resulted in the enforced break. So in my mind that was their investigation, conclusion and enforcement regarding the offences on your card. Matter done in my view but like I said I may be wrong.
If I am right, then when the same offences were found in England you cannot be prosecuted for these again as you had already been “punished” by your earlier enforced break.
I apologize if I am wrong as traffic law really was never my area, but it gives you a start.
Hello fellow trucker,
Both juristictions are both intending to prosecute in their areas for the same offences. Its too soon yet to be summonsed .I understand Scotland have up to six months for notification and the English im not sure about but there is the possibility of court action in an English court first even though it was the second routine check. Its a good old mess is it not.
Sounds a bit strange, maybe wrong since i have luckly little experience of VOSA.
But thought it was a UK wide and the system was UK wide. I got stoped in Scotland for a possible offence, was given a warning over it that was it and cards signed.
Was told the information was on the system and not to loose the card that they had the problems with, said i was on the system and they are out stoping people down south i’ll get pulled in and do not try and hide that card or loose it because its on the system and will then be in serious trouble.
We could all give you the lecture, but horse and stable door spring to mind… It looks like you may be well and truelly Donald Ducked, so I advise you to get legal advice ASAP, if your a T&G member get on to their legal department like yesterday, if not don’t waste anymore time and get down to a brief who specialises in traffic law PDQ. if you’ve lost/sent for replacement for damaged Digi-card you can drive for 15 days without one but you must make a printout every night. Good luck pal, I’ll keep my fingers crossed.
sorry guys ive omitted the fact that on both occasions it was the police not Vosa who stopped me. It is this fact that has caused me most concern. Thanks.
Layby Larry:
We could all give you the lecture, but horse and stable door spring to mind… It looks like you may be well and truelly Donald Ducked, so I advise you to get legal advice ASAP, if your a T&G member get on to their legal department like yesterday, if not don’t waste anymore time and get down to a brief who specialises in traffic law PDQ. if you’ve lost/sent for replacement for damaged Digi-card you can drive for 15 days without one but you must make a printout every night. Good luck pal, I’ll keep my fingers crossed.
IMO you have to take a print out before you go out and when you get back if you card is lost or faulty
with regard to driving with no card in the max fine is £5000 the same as not putting a tacho in
del
if you’ve lost/sent for replacement for damaged Digi-card you can drive for 15 days without one but you must make a printout every night
I was under the impression that without a card you could not drive at all, but coincidentally I was reading one of the posters in the transport office this morning (nothing else to do) and noticed one paragraph that said " if you are unable to use a dig card you must make printouts at start and finish of work and these should both be entered with number on digi card and drivers name etc and MUST be signed by the driver".
Back to the original post, I would not have thought that one agency would prosecute for the same offence in two different areas.
Worrying thought as you have to keep records for a length of time and could be stopped everyday for a check and face dozens of charges for the one offence.
The only comparison I could give is that I was prosecuted for “failure to keep records” (which I guess is a similar offence to not inserting card)and was fined £5 ,but that was in 1972 so allowing for inflation etc I would imagine a fine of around £250, as for being over driving time … how long is a piece of string? A lot will depend on how long over you were, minutes or hours.
You say that you can’t afford legal advice but I would say that you can’t afford NOT to have it… Sorry.
Thanks guys for the support so far and for the pm’s but unfortunately I cannot afford a brief as im financially challenged and had to borrow the Christmas money from my brother because of my previous employer absconding.Im not a member of any union and so the situation is dire unless I can find 2 briefs to do pro bono work as i understand an English one cannot represent in Scotland and visa versa.
del949:
if you’ve lost/sent for replacement for damaged Digi-card you can drive for 15 days without one but you must make a printout every night
I was under the impression that without a card you could not drive at all, but coincidentally I was reading one of the posters in the transport office this morning (nothing else to do) and noticed one paragraph that said " if you are unable to use a dig card you must make printouts at start and finish of work and these should both be entered with number on digi card and drivers name etc and MUST be signed by the driver".
Back to the original post, I would not have thought that one agency would prosecute for the same offence in two different areas.
Worrying thought as you have to keep records for a length of time and could be stopped everyday for a check and face dozens of charges for the one offence.The only comparison I could give is that I was prosecuted for “failure to keep records” (which I guess is a similar offence to not inserting card)and was fined £5 ,but that was in 1972 so allowing for inflation etc I would imagine a fine of around £250, as for being over driving time … how long is a piece of string? A lot will depend on how long over you were, minutes or hours.
You say that you can’t afford legal advice but I would say that you can’t afford NOT to have it… Sorry.
hi you are right if you have never been issued a card you can not drive a truck with a digital tacho
to add if you lose of you card is faulty you must ring dvla up and tell them as than there no and its on the computer that you have reported it and the you are covered
Del
Galwayman you are being very cryptic, with what actually happend.
When i started reading i assumed you have a digital card, then wanted to continue driving to drove without it inserted.
Others seem to be reading it you don’t have one at all. Maybe should clearly write what happend.
I am pretty sure you can’t be done for the same thing twice, even in Scotland and England, sounds strange then doing you for it twice, maybe if you explained exactly what happend might be easier, incase you have commited two seperate offences i.e. dont have a card or not informed the issuer its lost or stolen then to drive again would be commiting another offence.
Thanks Kenny1975 for pointing that out. Let me try and clarify the situation.
Stopped in Scotland for routine check by traffic Police. Didnt have a card in as i had previously pulled it because I had already exceeded 16 hours that day on duty but not my daily driving limit. So when I got pulled i had then exceeded both; daily shift approx 18 hrs and driving time approx 11 hrs driving. I say approx because there was insufficent paper for a print off and the Police had none either [another offence].So they manually downloaded the various codes from the digital tacho screen which took approx 25 minutes per day downloaded. They then read my digital card with a reader in their car and ascertained as i had been driving the truck when pulled it must have been me who drove without a card in the head and therefore had exceeded both my limits[a fact i did not deny]. So my card showed no infringements but the manual downloads did. they then informed me i was being reported to the prosecutor fiscal for tacho infringements and cautioned and details of the offences would be outlined to me at a later date re no of offences etc because they needed to go back to base and forensically analyise the manual download. Hope ure with me so far.
OK 3 days later I get a routine check by a traffic officer in England.I have the card in and was legal since the Scottish check. First he checks my card and all is ok. He then asks for a printout of the digital tacho and as I had replaced the paper he sees the vehicle has been driven without a card .At this point I get cautioned and I tell him about the Scottish pull and intended prosecution in Scotland. Doesnt matter he says and tells me he intends to report me for the same offences in England as motoring law in both areas are independent of each other and part of those offences had occurred in England too. I spoke to a solicitor about this and he confirmed it. So im currently waiting to be summonsed by both but the Scottish one can take up to 6 months and the English one up to 3. Therefore I might be prosecuted in England first and then Scotland and if that is the case isnt it going to look like ive done this before when i attend the second court. So there you have it and i hope it clarifies the scenario i face.
galwayman:
Thanks Kenny1975 for pointing that out. Let me try and clarify the situation.
Stopped in Scotland for routine check by traffic Police. Didnt have a card in as i had previously pulled it because I had already exceeded 16 hours that day on duty but not my daily driving limit. So when I got pulled i had then exceeded both; daily shift approx 18 hrs and driving time approx 11 hrs driving. I say approx because there was insufficent paper for a print off and the Police had none either [another offence].So they manually downloaded the various codes from the digital tacho screen which took approx 25 minutes per day downloaded. They then read my digital card with a reader in their car and ascertained as i had been driving the truck when pulled it must have been me who drove without a card in the head and therefore had exceeded both my limits[a fact i did not deny]. So my card showed no infringements but the manual downloads did. they then informed me i was being reported to the prosecutor fiscal for tacho infringements and cautioned and details of the offences would be outlined to me at a later date re no of offences etc because they needed to go back to base and forensically analyise the manual download. Hope ure with me so far.
OK 3 days later I get a routine check by a traffic officer in England.I have the card in and was legal since the Scottish check. First he checks my card and all is ok. He then asks for a printout of the digital tacho and as I had replaced the paper he sees the vehicle has been driven without a card .At this point I get cautioned and I tell him about the Scottish pull and intended prosecution in Scotland. Doesnt matter he says and tells me he intends to report me for the same offences in England as motoring law in both areas are independent of each other and part of those offences had occurred in England too. I spoke to a solicitor about this and he confirmed it. So im currently waiting to be summonsed by both but the Scottish one can take up to 6 months and the English one up to 3. Therefore I might be prosecuted in England first and then Scotland and if that is the case isnt it going to look like ive done this before when i attend the second court. So there you have it and i hope it clarifies the scenario i face.
i thought vosa covered all the uk
they do Delboy, however Vosa still need a Traffic Officer in Scotland to pull you over as far as im aware. Anyway it was the Police who pulled me on both occasions and so there lies the question. Who is prosecuting me Vosa or the Police.Its a tricky one.
reading your post you said that from the check in Scotland you drove legal so the crime was in Scotland and you will be reported for that so how can there say that it happen in England as well i think (IMO) you can not be done for the crime if you are all ready been done
del
I dont know Delboy. Has this something to do with Europe and Scotland being a country in its own right. At 180 an hour plus vat to hire the services of 2 solicitors on 2 seperate occasions its not feasable for me .Im skint and in debt due to a crook in our industry. ITs a mess but will face it one way or the other and learn a lot on the way.
galwayman:
I dont know Delboy. Has this something to do with Europe and Scotland being a country in its own right. At 180 an hour plus vat to hire the services of 2 solicitors on 2 seperate occasions its not feasable for me .Im skint and in debt due to a crook in our industry. ITs a mess but will face it one way or the other and learn a lot on the way.
just a thought why don’t you send an email to vosa and ask a traffic commissioner the question if i was pulled in Scotland and explain the reason why you was and that when you drove after your rest you drove legally can you be done in the two countries for an offence that happened and that you will be report for i hope you understand what i mean a email will cost you nothing and if you do get a reply for him/her and the say no then you have some thing for the courts to see
Del
my laymans tuppence worth says you cant get done twice for the same offence,least i hope not,cos i am in england and scotland once a day,and would be ticked off to get done for speeding twice,say.