Driving whilst on annual leave

[rog]

If a driver decides to do some agency driving work whilst on a weeks’ annual leave from their main employer (assuming that their contract allows this) then how does that affect the RT(WTD)R

Is it legal to do such

48 hours is designated for that week under RT(WTD)R so do the other hours for the agency get added to that

Does the 60 hours max for any one week still apply

A full weekly rest is taken at the start and end of the holiday week.
Does it affect the EU drivers regs in any way (apart from the driving time being counted)

[delboytwo]

ROG:
Is it legal to do such

yes and no, it would depend on which week is reference point is at for instance if the driver is at week 16 and as only 48 hour left in there reference period then no but if he got lots of hours left then yes, would like to add if the driver is lucky enough to get 5 weeks holiday and this was is 5th week then no as you only have to count 4 weeks for wtd

ROG:
48 hours is designated for that week under RT(WTD)R so do the other hours for the agency get added to that

yes he as a duty to inform is employer of all hours work under WTD both to the agency as well as his employer

ROG:
Does the 60 hours max for any one week still apply

yes

ROG:
A full weekly rest is taken at the start and end of the holiday week.
Does it affect the EU drivers regs in any way (apart from the driving time being counted)

the drive would still have to abide by there weekly totals

[rog]

ROG wrote:
48 hours is designated for that week under RT(WTD)R so do the other hours for the agency get added to that

delboytwo:
yes he as a duty to inform is employer of all hours work under WTD both to the agency as well as his employer

ROG wrote:
Does the 60 hours max for any one week still apply

delboytwo:
yes

Are you saying that the driver is restricted to 12 hours for the agency

[tachograph]

Short reply as I’m having computer trouble

Yes it’s legal to work in the holiday, if you work then you wouldn’t add the 48 hours credited to the WTD for holidays but would include the time you work.

If you work only a couple of days it may be a little more complicated though.

The purpose of the 48 hours is simply to keep things neutral whilst on holiday and it has no other purpose as far as I’m aware.

God this screen looks cr@p with the PC in safe mode

[rog]

tachograph:
Yes it’s legal to work in the holiday, if you work then you wouldn’t add the 48 hours credited to the WTD for holidays but would include the time you work.

thank you

tachograph:
If you work only a couple of days it may be a little more complicated though.

OHH!! - next question - What if you only work for less than those 5 days

I’m guessing that each day not worked would count as 8 hours as that would make sense

tachograph:
God this screen looks cr@p with the PC in safe mode

hope you get it fixed soon

[dieseldave]

delboytwo:
the drive would still have to abide by there weekly totals

We’re not forgetting about the any two consecutive weeks totals are we Del ?
… and any compensation required for shortened weekly rests, if applicable.

[delboytwo]

dieseldave:

delboytwo:
the drive would still have to abide by there weekly totals

We’re not forgetting about the any two consecutive weeks totals are we Del ?
… and any compensation required for shortened weekly rests, if applicable.

did not want to get to technical mate

ROG:
Are you saying that the driver is restricted to 12 hours for the agency

it will all deepened on the total hours left if the reference point

say the driver works for 15 weeks and has two weeks holiday at the end of the reference if the total at the end was 816 hours there would be no work left but if at the end of the reference point the driver had 40 hours left IE 776 hours worked he could either work for an agency for 40 hours

its all down to hour available

another point say the driver was on holiday in week two of the 17 week reference point and he did some work for an agency say 40 hours work that could bite the the driver at the end of the reference point cos the driver could go over there hours

[delboytwo]

tachograph:
Yes it’s legal to work in the holiday, if you work then you wouldn’t add the 48 hours credited to the WTD for holidays but would include the time you work

i get what your saying there tachograph but what about the weeks holiday for the firm he works for the would allocate it as holiday as he as to take the holidays now, so the agency work would be classed as extra hours and would have to be added to totals for the main firm

i no off this cos where i worked some one there have to weeks holidays and drove for an other firm and at the end of the reference point he got sent home with out pay for 3 days as that was how many hours he gone over, there were very up on it

[rog]

delboytwo:
i get what your saying there tachograph but what about the weeks holiday for the firm he works for the would allocate it as holiday as he as to take the holidays now, so the agency work would be classed as extra hours and would have to be added to totals for the main firm

Depends what the rules are - if the 48 hours for holiday are superceded by actual work hours and NOT added to it then it will make little difference.

delboytwo:
i no off this cos where i worked some one there have to weeks holidays and drove for an other firm and at the end of the reference point he got sent home with out pay for 3 days as that was how many hours he gone over, there were very up on it

How many times have we heard that on here only for it to be disproved

[delboytwo]

ROG:
Depends what the rules are - if the 48 hours for holiday are superceded by actual work hours and NOT added to it then it will make little difference.

rules are that 4 weeks holiday are to be added to you totals, in that case if you say work 17 week which is 817 hours for wtd and in that 17 week you had two weeks holiday in your main job that would be classed as part of you totals if you do some work for an other company that would count as working hours which would have to be added to you main firms totals you could in fact go over your hours

[rog]

Do you have a link that states that any holiday time must be added IF the driver works that day as well

I could not find such rules which govern this situation is why I posed the question

[delboytwo]

If an employee works for two or more employers, then the weekly working time is the
combined total of the hours worked (excluding breaks, rest and periods of availability) for all
the employers. The mobile worker must tell their employer(s) in writing, of any time worked
for another employer

ROG:
Do you have a link that states that any holiday time must be added IF the driver works that day as well

I could not find such rules which govern this situation is why I posed the question

example

Rog you work for me i am your boss i do your WTD you have to by law have 4 week holiday if you work a 5 day week
you must take these holiday now not like before when you did me a favour and i pay you the hours you never took at the end of the year.
so i have to put on you WTD recorded that you had a a weeks holiday which under wtd is 48 hours so if you want to work for someone else i would thing you could do 60 work as it not holiday and it would then be added to you reference point

Rog how many hours do you have to count in a week for WTD would that not be 48 hours for your holiday and any other hours you work for unless the work is not transport related

3.5 Calculating the average when leave is taken
You cannot use statutory annual leave, sick leave, maternity, paternity, adoption or parental
leave in order to reduce the average working time performed during the reference period. So
when calculating the average weekly working time, any maternity, paternity, adoption,
parental leave, sick leave - as well as the statutory paid annual leave entitlement must not
affect the result of your calculation.

the above quote clearly states you still must count your holiday as work

so for 5 weeks the driver has 48 hours work in each week then takes an holiday of 1 week which is 48 hours and for the next 11 week does 48 hours each week, meets WTD 816 hours work

so driver works for 5 week at 40 hours each week takes 1 weeks holiday which is counted as 48 hours for WTD the next 11 weeks does 48 hours would give the driver 40 hour left to do with as he see fit so say he was on holiday in week 6 there nothing stopping him from doing the extra work that week but must tell his employer that he as worked and the he as done what is required for is part if though he does extra hours in the 11 weeks and say he was told by is boss that on week 16 your not going to have enough hour to do 48 then he could go home on a none holiday day IE POA

and you must remember its an average of 17 weeks and as long as at the end of your refernce point you have only done 817 hour your OK

[rog]

Where is the bit about working when on annual leave?

[delboytwo]

If an employee works for two or more employers, then the weekly working time is the
combined total of the hours worked (excluding breaks, rest and periods of availability) for all
the employers. The mobile worker must tell their employer(s) in writing, of any time worked
for another employer

if you did not have to count holiday in you reference point it would IMHO say that here in the red bit

[rog]

I did not want to ASSUME such - too risky

[delboytwo]

ROG:
I did not want to ASSUME such - too risky

so what your take on it then i see that you have to include you weeks holiday in to your calculations so that it you put it in it there, if you a normal joe blogs and only work a 40 hour week that would give you an extra 8 hours a week to play with except when on holiday cos as you know a weeks holiday is 48 hours and buy the end of you reference point and as long as you have not gone over your 817 for 17 weeks your OK so if you know that in 17 weeks you will not go over your totals you could work while on holiday, as long as you inform you boss if and i say if there care about the hole thing

as some have said until someone get done for breaking the rules on RTD/WTD how actually cares

[rog]

delboytwo:
so what your take on it then

Either the work and the holiday both count or only one does but I don’t know which so I asked the question

If the regs had clearly stated a precidence for this situation then I would not be asking

[delboytwo]

ROG:

delboytwo:
so what your take on it then

Either the work and the holiday both count or only one does but I don’t know which so I asked the question

If the regs had clearly stated a precidence for this situation then I would not be asking

this is my opinion Rog but if you are on holiday you are not working and the 48 hours for that week holiday is to meet you totals that’s all, and if you did some work for say an agency in you weeks holiday and the hours you do would be work there to would be add to your reference point

you could work 60 hour for the agency in that week cos holiday is not counted for work but just to show that you had the time off as holiday

most companies software (WTD) would have somewhere in there to add other employment other wise why give you the opportunity to work for others

[coffeeholic]

It’s simple.

If you take one of your annual weeks holiday and do no work your employer counts it as 48 hours for your WTD for that week.

If you take one of your annual weeks holiday and your employer allows you to work for someone else you inform your employer of the hours done for the other company, as you are legally obliged to do, and your main employer counts those hours actually worked instead of the 48 hours for your WTD for that week.

If you take one of your annual weeks holiday and you work say 3 days for someone else. You inform your main employer of the hours done on those 3 days and he counts those hours along with 8 hours per day for the holiday days you did no work on for your WTD for that week.

The 48 hour holiday thing is only there to prevent statutory annual leave being used to reduce a workers average over the reference period. It stops an employer forcing a worker to take holidays when they may not wish to in order to reduce their average.

delboytwo:
i no off this cos where i worked some one there have to weeks holidays and drove for an other firm and at the end of the reference point he got sent home with out pay for 3 days as that was how many hours he gone over, there were very up on it

Sounds like they were very up on screwing drivers and not much else. The work he did during his holiday didn’t put him over by 3 days, the most it could have cost the firm of his available hours was 12, the difference between 48 hours weeks holiday and the 60 hours maximum he could have worked for the other employer. Their scheduling seems to have put him over and they penalised him for this by not paying him? They could have paid him for those days quite legally.

[rog]

Thank you coffeeholic