I don’t know how to assess the figures? Are they higher or lower than other country`s police forces?
And I can’t see figures for police accidents in non-emergency driving except from 2008/9? Gottta be there somewhere?
I think you’ve got enough info there, quite frightening really. For more up to date figures a freedom of information act request usually prizes a little more info out
I don’t know how to assess the figures? Are they higher or lower than other country`s police forces?
And I can’t see figures for police accidents in non-emergency driving except from 2008/9? Gottta be there somewhere?
I think you’ve got enough info there, quite frightening really. For more up to date figures a freedom of information act request usually prizes a little more info out
But those figures are for pursuits: Chasing down fail to stops. That is clearly hazardous, but must be balanced against letting a dangerous driver get away, which is risky in itself. Chase and stop/or let a loon career around risking innocent lives.
Not convinced either way…
I don’t know how to assess the figures? Are they higher or lower than other country`s police forces?
And I can’t see figures for police accidents in non-emergency driving except from 2008/9? Gottta be there somewhere?
I think you’ve got enough info there, quite frightening really. For more up to date figures a freedom of information act request usually prizes a little more info out
But those figures are for pursuits: Chasing down fail to stops. That is clearly hazardous, but must be balanced against letting a dangerous driver get away, which is risky in itself. Chase and stop/or let a loon career around risking innocent lives.
Not convinced either way…
The Express ran a story in May 2018 giving stats on Police accidents including deaths and the compensation claims made by the public. I suppose whether its a chase or not 32 people between, I think 2016 & 2017 lost their lives as a result of Police collisions. The stats the Express got hold of were a result of a freedom of information request. It also states that these figures are regarding innocent people killed.
The Statistica figures show sharp dips and rises. With relatively small numbers it’s not easy to see any trends.
And I still don’t see how we can benchmark these figures?
30 deaths are 30 too many, of course, but if no pursuits were made, how many deaths would there have been if driving loons were left alone? More or less?
Are UK forces more or less aggressive in pursuits than other forces?
You’re raising interesting questions, but I can’t agree that the figures are/aren’t shocking.
Franglais:
The Statistica figures show sharp dips and rises. With relatively small numbers it’s not easy to see any trends.
And I still don’t see how we can benchmark these figures?
30 deaths are 30 too many, of course, but if no pursuits were made, how many deaths would there have been if driving loons were left alone? More or less?
Are UK forces more or less aggressive in pursuits than other forces?
You’re raising interesting questions, but I can’t agree that the figures are/aren’t shocking.
Sent from my SM-G361F using Tapatalk
No i’m not raising interesting questions, I think you are doing that rather well. I’m merely quoting what is in the public domain for all to see, ie the harsh reality of innocent folk killed or injured by Police vehicles in collisions. An average over the 5 years quoted in the article of 22 innocent people killed per year to me is shocking.
robbo99.:
I’m merely quoting what is in the public domain for all to see, ie the harsh reality of innocent folk killed or injured by Police vehicles in collisions. An average over the 5 years quoted in the article of 22 innocent people killed per year to me is shocking.
robbo99.:
he Express ran a story in May 2018 giving stats on Police accidents including deaths and the compensation claims made by the public. I suppose whether its a chase or not 32 people between, I think 2016 & 2017 lost their lives as a result of Police collisions. The stats the Express got hold of were a result of a freedom of information request. It also states that these figures are regarding innocent people killed.
The Express article has some interesting phrasing…
" last five years 110 people were killed in road traffic accidents involving the police and safety campaigners have voiced concerns at the human toll where police vehicles, often exceeding speed limits, are involved in crashes with innocent people"
so not all are innocent people.
Independent:
“and “two-thirds of the people who died were passengers, bystanders or other road users”, the Independent Police Complaints Commission said.”
about 20 non-driver deaths? And we can only guess how many of those were passengers knowingly travelling in stolen cars? I`m not saying car theft is a capital offense though!
And although the Express is correct
“showed a sharp increase from 21 people killed in 2015- 2016 and 14 in 2014-2015.”
it is very similar to some other years, (29 in 2012/13).
Link here to death police vehicles outside of pursuit : statista.com/statistics/319 … and-wales/
Again without knowing the mileages driven and other factors, such a simple stat is limited. It may be useful to see trends but maybe not judge standards generally?
Not sure what you are trying to prove here Franglais. One innocent persons death is one too many, stats are stats, whether an innocent passenger is killed in a chase or whether an innocent person is killed by a reversing vehicle, they are still innocent people. Joe public trying to establish the circumstances of these innocent people’s death will never get to know the exact details. What we do know for certain is that they are dead.
robbo99.:
Not sure what you are trying to prove here Franglais. One innocent persons death is one too many, stats are stats, whether an innocent passenger is killed in a chase or whether an innocent person is killed by a reversing vehicle, they are still innocent people. Joe public trying to establish the circumstances of these innocent people’s death will never get to know the exact details. What we do know for certain is that they are dead.
Not trying to prove anything!
Any and all deaths are tragedies, I agree.
A couple of nights ago. Traffic comes to a grinding halt about 4 miles south of the A11 split. Engines are now off and everyone’s settled for the wait.
Fire engine number 1, up the hard shoulder with blues and twos steady 30mph.
Fire engine number 2, up the hard shoulder with blues and twos steady 30mph.
HA 4wd number 1 , up the hard shoulder lights flashing.
Pollice car number 1, up the hard shoulder blues and twos.
HA 4wd number 2, up the hard shoulder lights flashing.
Ambulance number 1, decides to drive all the way up the middle of both lanes of stationary traffic lights and sirens all going off, causing total chaos as drivers woke up and tried to find some way of letting numbnuts through.
Perhaps they have different rules to the other emergency serives?
Punchy Dan:
^^^^ yes ,always thought this my self ,why is it that the last pig to attend drives flat out to an accident scene even though the others have got the job in hand .
How do you know that the “others have got the job in hand”?
Err by being involved in an accident my self
So you are able to see them driving flat out all the way to the scene. Of course you did.
I’m glad you know the scene management role better than the police do.
I had the exact same thing on the way to an accident one of my vehicles was in. The traffic car absolutely flew past in a 30 at school going home time there was no way I imagined they were going to the same thing, I was, as had already spoken to the driver who confirmed no injuries. When I got there two local wimmin plod in a Honda CRV had been there for ages too. Totally unnecessary public endangerment.
Looks like it’s official though the public hate the police more than lorry drivers.
Have a look at the comments under this video. Yes the copper was on some spurious chase with no blues and twos to try and sneak up on the car that had sped past him but the truck driver was a hopeless moron 100% in the wrong.
I’ve read this topic with some interest.
I have to say, the alleged police officer posting on here has done nothing more than cement the view that they have some serious superiority issues, he clearly thinks a few weeks training and possession of a warrant card makes him some what superior in all matters, he’s not, he’s too stupid to understand that the warrant card is a mark of responsibility to the crown and the public, he’s a servant, not the boss, his posts display ignorance and pomposity beyond belief, he’s an embarrassment to the oath.
He has tried to lecture all yet despite spending several pages trotting out brainwashed nonsense about funding, it’s taken one of the great unwashed to explain in black and white that he’s wrong, yet still he back peddles…
I like the bit about a truck driver making personal insults that apparently reinforce the publics view of truckers, despite the fact that his previous post was a sneering insult towards a poster calling him ignorant, brilliant.
If he is a police officer doubtless he is never wrong, he seems quite an odious human, brain dead beyond the job, he’s done nothing for the image of the police and is, to be honest, an embarrassment to the badge, seems his ego is more important then the badge, no surprise really…
As for being endorsed by a traffic officer?
RANT INCOMING…From my own experiences of HATO in the northwest, meh, the matrix are typed by a ■■■■■■■ tragic excuse for a blind chimp and the road side assistance is a disgrace, of course that’s just from my own experiences and eyesight, I’m sure I am going to be told I am wrong as I haven’t been on an intensive training course on how to park on a ramp and stare at my iPhone in the rain a few hundred yards from a family that have broken down on the opposite carriageway…or leave a truck driver with no lights whatsoever on his trailer after an electrical meltdown on his own, no cones, no parking behind his unlit dangerous obstruction, nope, better off leaving him with nothing more than himself and his hi viz in the dark to stop anyone drifting into 42T of truck, to be fair though, they did ask if I needed a foil blanket to keep warm, trouble was it was mid summer and even though it was eleven at night it was knocking on 20c!!!..or to leave his 7 months pregnant fiancé alone on the hard shoulder in horrible October weather with a puncture just because the AA had been called, it was cold getting dark and she was clearly upset…
Seems a batternburg vehicle is an excuse to be a moron with a superiority complex…
Your username is very apt. I think you’re talking rubbish, a trailer with no lights in the dark would get statutory removed by me as being dangerous, my colleagues and I would stay on scene until it was recovered, I would stay with the pregnant woman every time until she was recovered, the family would be taken to the nearest services while dad waits for recovery, and as for iPhone - give your head a wobble! Overpriced, overhyped rubbish. Did you complain about any of these incidents, as any officer doing any of them would face disciplinary action.
BossHogg:
Your username is very apt. I think you’re talking rubbish, a trailer with no lights in the dark would get statutory removed by me as being dangerous, my colleagues and I would stay on scene until it was recovered, I would stay with the pregnant woman every time until she was recovered, the family would be taken to the nearest services while dad waits for recovery, and as for iPhone - give your head a wobble! Overpriced, overhyped rubbish. Did you complain about any of these incidents, as any officer doing any of them would face disciplinary action.
Are you saying, because it’s what I’m seeing, that NFC1 is lying? I get that the account would make uncomfortable reading for someone associated with such an organisation if they deliver better. But you must be able to see how your reaction looks in the context of this thread direction.
I’ve had very underwhelming experiences with HATO & police, I’ve also had decent experiences so I’m inclined to accept NFC1 is giving a true account of his experience.
BossHogg:
Your username is very apt. I think you’re talking rubbish, a trailer with no lights in the dark would get statutory removed by me as being dangerous, my colleagues and I would stay on scene until it was recovered, I would stay with the pregnant woman every time until she was recovered, the family would be taken to the nearest services while dad waits for recovery, and as for iPhone - give your head a wobble! Overpriced, overhyped rubbish. Did you complain about any of these incidents, as any officer doing any of them would face disciplinary action.
Listen chump, I have no reason whatsoever to lie, those things did happen, I’m not a liar, your clearly uncomfortable with the way things have worked in the past with your organisation, your reply displays some confirmation to me about the level of respect you should receive, any professional would have possibly replied with some decorum and maybe some concern at the service I had witnessed, not you though loudmouth.
Also know of a driver who unwittingly ripped his primary electric as he came out of Stafford S/B services, he said he must have caught it as he was manoeuvring, it was wedged in the curtain release, he was amused to have two HATO officers turn up and leave him with a couple of small orange beacons when he told them a fitter was enroute, just the thing for a stranded HGV in the dark, but I guess that was a lie too.
Oh and for a further one that never happened, i told the wife I just had a little rant about what happened to her, guess what wobblehead, turns out that last Feb, one of her friends who was sixth months pregnant broke down with husband on the M62 e/b just past house on the prairie, HATO stopped, confirmed AA were approx 20 mins so left, she must be lying too I guess.
Why on earth would I complain, what’s the point, at the time the better solution was to wait for an organisation who had a clue to come and resolve the issue.
I strongly suggest you take your own head for a wobble sunshine, seems like your hi viz uniform has had the same affect as your mate Ratty, gone to your head a little.
Your response speaks volumes, as does the silence over my comments about the matrix signs shambles on the M6 between Wigan and Penrith, they are ridiculous…
Thank Christ I don’t work anymore if you’re the calibre on offer, shouty man in his battenberg Disco…go an put some cones out and calm down son.
BossHogg:
Your username is very apt. I think you’re talking rubbish, a trailer with no lights in the dark would get statutory removed by me as being dangerous, my colleagues and I would stay on scene until it was recovered, I would stay with the pregnant woman every time until she was recovered, the family would be taken to the nearest services while dad waits for recovery, and as for iPhone - give your head a wobble! Overpriced, overhyped rubbish. Did you complain about any of these incidents, as any officer doing any of them would face disciplinary action.
Are you saying, because it’s what I’m seeing, that NFC1 is lying? I get that the account would make uncomfortable reading for someone associated with such an organisation if they deliver better. But you must be able to see how your reaction looks in the context of this thread direction.
I’ve had very underwhelming experiences with HATO & police, I’ve also had decent experiences so I’m inclined to accept NFC1 is giving a true account of his experience.
All I’m saying is it wouldn’t happen in my county, we haven’t got CCTV to watch out for incidents, I’m the first to admit we’re not blessed with the best of technology in my area, but I will give 100% assistance to anybody who requires it, and would never leave a vulnerable person on their own. It’s standard procedure to leave cones and lights behind unlit vehicles, however, if recovery was imminent, I’d stay on scene. Don’t paint us all with the same brush, as I try to help people as best as I can when I’m on patrol. We have our numpties, just as much as your lot.
BossHogg:
Your username is very apt. I think you’re talking rubbish, a trailer with no lights in the dark would get statutory removed by me as being dangerous, my colleagues and I would stay on scene until it was recovered, I would stay with the pregnant woman every time until she was recovered, the family would be taken to the nearest services while dad waits for recovery, and as for iPhone - give your head a wobble! Overpriced, overhyped rubbish. Did you complain about any of these incidents, as any officer doing any of them would face disciplinary action.
Listen chump, I have no reason whatsoever to lie, those things did happen, I’m not a liar, your clearly uncomfortable with the way things have worked in the past with your organisation, your reply displays some confirmation to me about the level of respect you should receive, any professional would have possibly replied with some decorum and maybe some concern at the service I had witnessed, not you though loudmouth.
Also know of a driver who unwittingly ripped his primary electric as he came out of Stafford S/B services, he said he must have caught it as he was manoeuvring, it was wedged in the curtain release, he was amused to have two HATO officers turn up and leave him with a couple of small orange beacons when he told them a fitter was enroute, just the thing for a stranded HGV in the dark, but I guess that was a lie too.
Oh and for a further one that never happened, i told the wife I just had a little rant about what happened to her, guess what wobblehead, turns out that last Feb, one of her friends who was sixth months pregnant broke down with husband on the M62 e/b just past house on the prairie, HATO stopped, confirmed AA were approx 20 mins so left, she must be lying too I guess.
Why on earth would I complain, what’s the point, at the time the better solution was to wait for an organisation who had a clue to come and resolve the issue.
I strongly suggest you take your own head for a wobble sunshine, seems like your hi viz uniform has had the same affect as your mate Ratty, gone to your head a little.
Your response speaks volumes, as does the silence over my comments about the matrix signs shambles on the M6 between Wigan and Penrith, they are ridiculous…
Thank Christ I don’t work anymore if you’re the calibre on offer, shouty man in his battenberg Disco…go an put some cones out and calm down son.
…and breath…again…
I don’t need to shout, gets you nowhere, a civil tongue and a helpful attitude work wonders, unless it’s gets thrown back at me.
Can’t have it both ways Boss I’m afraid. You were on here last year regarding the moron football guy who injured & killed co workers of yours whilst texting at the wheel. You and the HA received absolute support on here quite rightly, so it’s not like we are all anti HA.
But you have to accept that numerous accounts of poor assistance have been experienced by many on the motorways. I get the loyalty and supporting your mates thing but sometimes it’s just about telling the truth. NFC is quite right to be ■■■■■■ at you in my view as all of a sudden you play the ’ civil tongue ’ line…
Maybe it’s just me, but when you accuse someone as spouting rubbish, it usually won’t end well. Passive aggressive when it suits?
As for your alleged police mate, he seems to have gone remarkably quiet on both threads
I haven’t got a problem with HATO tbh.
They are they are there to assist in traffic situations, and any feedback I’ve had from people they have helped on the hard shoulder or whatever, has been nothing but good tbf.
If my Mrs or daughters were in that situation I would be appreciative of them.
The few exchanges I have had with these guys, they have not come across as officious or the (perceived by some) wannabe Old Bill, but were very polite…
What they do not do is moan about this that and the ■■■■ other preventing them from doing a proper job and display the exact opposite when it suits them, or suits their superiors when putting them on a relatively trivial operation purely to raise revenue…unlike our Police force…
(Ok, I know they are not in a position to undertake revenue raising excercises, but you get my point)
Beaver is correct, our resident Police spokesman and his apologist , are both conspicuous by their absence since the discussion went up a gear.
BossHogg:
Your username is very apt. I think you’re talking rubbish, a trailer with no lights in the dark would get statutory removed by me as being dangerous, my colleagues and I would stay on scene until it was recovered, I would stay with the pregnant woman every time until she was recovered, the family would be taken to the nearest services while dad waits for recovery, and as for iPhone - give your head a wobble! Overpriced, overhyped rubbish. Did you complain about any of these incidents, as any officer doing any of them would face disciplinary action.
Agree with you 100%. Seen him previously acting chumpish. We must remember some lorry drivers have nothing good to say about anyone but themseves. Unbelievably biased sometimes.
Did you complain about any of these incidents, as any officer doing any of them would face disciplinary action.
We must remember some lorry drivers have nothing good to say about anyone but themseves. Unbelievably biased sometimes.