As some of you may know, I currently work as a bus driver and have recently passed my class 2.
If I signed upto a few agencies and drove on my days off, how would this work in relation to driving hours?
I belive that if I did, then I would only be able to work a day or so every couple of weeks, and have been told that if I did agency work then I would have to tell my current employer (Stagecoach if they agree) and that instead of driving on domestic hours, the minute I start using a tacho then I would only be able to drive on EU hours?
are you on the 48hr wtd driving buses?
If you are then you should reallly tell your current employer as they should be tracking your hours
once you start doing eu hours then yes it has to be eu hours for that duration and it would be advisable to mention it to your employer.
I did it a few years ago without telling my employer and carried on doing it on weekends till another bloke at worked got caught.the management went ape zb at him for not declaring it to them.
would you not be better off if possible doing overtime on the buses if its just for cash or are you after a bit more experience on the class 2
gazzah:
are you after a bit more experience on the class 2
Just after the class 2 experience… 
In fact driving on EU hours on the buses would shaft them royally - quite often we are driving for 5 and a half hours… 
The space below is reserved for a 6-page ‘simplification’ and answer by ROG. 
Ahh… there’s my coat. 
dieseldave:
:lol:
I love that last smiley… 
With this being a mix of domestic & EU driving regs - I am staying well clear.
Unless a contract says other, I see no reason to inform the main employer as long as you are within the law.
you must ask your employers permission ,
to work else where as a driver when on
your time off, as for rules it will be those
RULES AS LAID DOWN IN THE vosa SITE,
I belive however that your employer will
tell you that extra driveing and for some one
else is a big NO ;NO;
brit pete:
you must ask your employers permission ,
to work else where as a driver when on
your time off, as for rules it will be those
RULES AS LAID DOWN IN THE vosa SITE,
I belive however that your employer will
tell you that extra driveing and for some one
else is a big NO ;NO;
Where in law does it say that you MUST tell or ask an employer this 
I wouldn’t expect VOSA to pull you in too much in your bus. So don’t tell the bus company that you drive a truck, and don’t tell the agency or haulier that you drive a bus. Simples
you’d have to make sure you will still getting your 45 hours clear rest surely?
If its a digital taco then its all there for all to see anyway, although i guess your bus employer wouldn’t be reading the digi
DAF95XF:
As some of you may know, I currently work as a bus driver and have recently passed my class 2.
If I signed upto a few agencies and drove on my days off, how would this work in relation to driving hours?
I belive that if I did, then I would only be able to work a day or so every couple of weeks, and have been told that if I did agency work then I would have to tell my current employer (Stagecoach if they agree) and that instead of driving on domestic hours, the minute I start using a tacho then I would only be able to drive on EU hours?
hi mate found this with refence to buses
Domestic driving limits
Driving is defined as being at the controls of a vehicle for the purposes of controlling its movement, whether it is moving or stationary with the engine running, even for a short period of time.
Breaks and continuous drivingAfter 5.5 hours of driving a break of at least 30 minutes must be taken in which the driver is able to obtain rest and refreshment.
Alternatively, within any period of 8.5 hours in the working day, total breaks amounting to at least 45 minutes are taken so that the driver does not drive for more than 7 hours and 45 minutes. The driver must in addition have a break of at least 30 minutes to obtain rest or refreshment at the end of this period, unless it is the end of the working day.
Daily driving In any working day, the maximum amount of driving is 10 hours.
Mixed EU/AETR and GB domestic driving
Many drivers spend some of their time driving under one set of rules and some under another set, perhaps even on the same day. If you work partly under EU/AETR rules and partly under GB domestic rules during a day or a week, the following points must be considered:The time you spend driving or on duty under EU/AETR rules cannot count as a break or rest period under GB domestic rules.
Driving and other duty under GB domestic rules (including non-driving work in another employment) count as other work but not as a break or rest period under EU/AETR rules.
Driving and other duty under EU/AETR rules count towards the driving and duty limits under the GB domestic rules.
When driving under each set of rules you must comply with the requirements of the rules being driven under e.g. the daily rest provisions for domestic and the daily and weekly rest requirements for EU/AETR driving.
Driving limits
The GB domestic limit (a maximum of 10 hours of driving a day) must always be obeyed. But at any time when you are actually driving under the EU/AETR rules you must obey all the rules on EU/AETR driving limits.
Other duty limits
The GB domestic limit (i.e. no more than 16 hours on duty for drivers of passenger vehicles) must always be obeyed. But when working under EU/AETR rules you must also obey all the rules on breaks, daily rest (only on those days when actually driving) and weekly rest.
Rest periods and breaks
Again, you must always obey the EU/AETR rules on rest periods and breaks on days and weeks when driving in scope of EU/AETR rules is carried out.
Where a driver works under GB domestic rules in week 1 and the EU/AETR rules in the second week, the weekly rest required in week 2 must start no later than 144 hours following the commencement of duty on or after 00.00 on Monday.
hope it helps
ROG i never said it was a ““LAW””
BUT as a driver what rules
do you use when driveing a truck/coach
The following is only a fraction of what
is laid down for Lorry and PSV drivers.
Read the links from VOSA;
you are only allowed a 90hr double week.
and THAT IS WHY;
your employer must know if you are
going to drive else where,WHY because you
can only do so many hours ,and if you break
those rules, and are caught by those who from
the office of VOSA, The(his) employer will take
appropriate action as is nessacry to safeguard
his good standing and reputation which
he /she requires, along with the a O/PSV
OPERATING licence,also the agencey
will have a opt-out clause, which will be in the contract
you sign when joining the agencey,hidden away in the small print,the cowboy days, are gone or shall i say punished
more severely,now adays.
LINK-1
HERE is the mainVOSA-SITE
ALSO we will hopefully have one of the many VOSA
officers who are on here as members come and put
the answer in a way that will explain to those who
do not participate in driveing vehicles commerical
be it lorry or coach for hire and reward,
limeyphil:
‘…don’t tell the bus company that you drive a truck, and don’t tell the agency or haulier that you drive a bus…’
So it seems to be legally acceptable to keep zip.
But is it morally trustworthy, etc, etc? Do you respect any of them …or maybe simply using them all for the ££’s?
I’d ask myself if I ever felt even the slightest bit tired behind any wheel to perhaps sway my risk assessment - cos that’s what it arguably is…
DAF95XF:
As some of you may know, I currently work as a bus driver and have recently passed my class 2.
If I signed upto a few agencies and drove on my days off, how would this work in relation to driving hours?
I belive that if I did, then I would only be able to work a day or so every couple of weeks, and have been told that if I did agency work then I would have to tell my current employer (Stagecoach if they agree) and that instead of driving on domestic hours, the minute I start using a tacho then I would only be able to drive on EU hours?
Almost but not quite correct
On days when you were driving the bus you would still be driving to domestic regulations, on days when you were driving trucks you would be under EU regulations.
-
In a week when you drive under EU regulations any time spent on domestic rules count as “other work” for the EU regulations.
-
On any day when you drive under EU rules you should have the required daily rest periods.
-
In any week when you drive under EU rules you should have the required weekly rest period.
-
Any driving under EU rules counts as driving for the domestic rules when you are driving the bus.
Any driving done under EU regulations counts towards the WTD for mobile workers.
I don’t have time to check the regulations but I’m reasonably certain that as the bus driving is out of scope of EU regulations you don’t come under the WTD for mobile workers when driving the bus, however you would still come under the general WTD so your employer probably still has a legal obligation to track your hours so they would probably legally need to be told, if you wish to comply with the rules that is
It’s probably in your contract of employment that you should inform your employer of any other work done for another employer so you could be facing disciplinary action if they found out and you hadn’t told them, worth thing about
tachograph:
DAF95XF:
As some of you may know, I currently work as a bus driver and have recently passed my class 2.
If I signed upto a few agencies and drove on my days off, how would this work in relation to driving hours?
I belive that if I did, then I would only be able to work a day or so every couple of weeks, and have been told that if I did agency work then I would have to tell my current employer (Stagecoach if they agree) and that instead of driving on domestic hours, the minute I start using a tacho then I would only be able to drive on EU hours?Almost but not quite correct
On days when you were driving the bus you would still be driving to domestic regulations, on days when you were driving trucks you would be under EU regulations.
In a week when you drive under EU regulations any time spent on domestic rules count as “other work” for the EU regulations.
On any day when you drive under EU rules you should have the required daily rest periods.
In any week when you drive under EU rules you should have the required weekly rest period.
Any driving under EU rules counts as driving for the domestic rules when you are driving the bus.
Any driving done under EU regulations counts towards the WTD for mobile workers.
I don’t have time to check the regulations but I’m reasonably certain that as the bus driving is out of scope of EU regulations you don’t come under the WTD for mobile workers when driving the bus, however you would still come under the general WTD so your employer probably still has a legal obligation to track your hours so they would probably legally need to be told, if you wish to comply with the rules that is
It’s probably in your contract of employment that you should inform your employer of any other work done for another employer so you could be facing disciplinary action if they found out and you hadn’t told them, worth thing about
I’m not saying you’re wrong, but in this situation I think the law says (somewhere) that as it’s a bus with more than 16 passenger seats, then both bus driving and Class 2 driving have to be under EU rules. If it was minibus work and Class 2, then what you’re saying is correct, that’s how I understand it reading all that I have.
But Stu, me and you both know you’d have to declare it to stagecoach, if caught you can run the risk losing both your licences for breaking driving and rest limits…and the other thing, rest limits. You’d still have to have 48hours rest every weekend. In my mind, its pointless taking a reduced weekly rest unless you know you can have 3 days off within 3 weeks, which with stagecoach, you won’t ever get 3 days off!
DAF95XF:
As some of you may know, I currently work as a bus driver and have recently passed my class 2.
If I signed upto a few agencies and drove on my days off, how would this work in relation to driving hours?
I belive that if I did, then I would only be able to work a day or so every couple of weeks, and have been told that if I did agency work then I would have to tell my current employer (Stagecoach if they agree) and that instead of driving on domestic hours, the minute I start using a tacho then I would only be able to drive on EU hours?
You’d be breaking the law. Basically, any non tacho work, whether driving, delivering post or putting cherries on a cake in a factory is classed as “other work” under EU Drivers hours laws. You still have to meet the requirements of the weekly rest period (that’s no work at all, not just no tachograph work) including making up for any reduced weekly rest the following week. You can still run domestic hours on the buses.
Basically, if you work 5 days a week on the buses, effectively you can only do one days work a fortnight on the lorries.
Adam_Mc:
I’m not saying you’re wrong, but in this situation I think the law says (somewhere) that as it’s a bus with more than 16 passenger seats, then both bus driving and Class 2 driving have to be under EU rules. If it was minibus work and Class 2, then what you’re saying is correct, that’s how I understand it reading all that I have.
I would be interested to know where in the regulations that’s said.
As DAF95XF is working to domestic regulations on the buses then I see no reason why that would change except for the daily/weekly rest periods on days and weeks when he does some driving to EU regulations.
Vehicles used for the carriage of passengers on a regular service with a route that does not exceed 50 km is exempt from EU regulations
Page 9 - Rules on Drivers’ Hours and Tachographs Passenger-carrying vehicles in the UK and Europe:
ExemptionsVehicles used for the carriage of passengers on
regular services with a route that does not exceed
50 km.
Page 25 (same link as above):
Mixed EU/AETR and GB domestic drivingMany drivers spend some of their time driving under one set of rules and some under another set,
perhaps even on the same day. If you work partly under EU/AETR rules and partly under GB domestic
rules during a day or a week, the following points must be considered:
- The time you spend driving or on duty under EU/AETR rules cannot count as a break or rest period
under GB domestic rules.- Driving and other duty under GB domestic rules (including non-driving work in another employment)
count as other work but not as a break or rest period under EU/AETR rules.- Driving and other duty under EU/AETR rules count towards the driving and duty limits under the GB
domestic rules.- When driving under each set of rules you must comply with the requirements of the rules being driven
under e.g. the daily rest provisions for domestic and the daily and weekly rest requirements for
EU/AETR driving.
You’d definately have to declare to Stagecoach what you would be doing, at our place we have forms to submit when you’ve done other work, when, who for, how long etc. And we have to sign a declaration on our pre-shift check sheet that says I am aware of EU drivers hours rules/WTD, I have taken the neccessary daily rest before reporting for work today, In the past week I have taken the required weekly rest period, I have informed the company about any other work I have done elsewhere. In our Site T&C it actually says it is a LEGAL requirement to have your managers permission BEFORE doing other work*. A chap at our place drove a digi-tach vehicle (we’re largely analogue atm) and when they downloaded his card loads of other registrations popped up on the system because he’d been doing agency work and not declared it. Him and a few others have recieved final written warnings over it (they downloaded everyone’s cards to check).
*I don’t know if it is a legal requirement or not but that’s what it says in the Operating Agreement.
tachograph:
Adam_Mc:
I’m not saying you’re wrong, but in this situation I think the law says (somewhere) that as it’s a bus with more than 16 passenger seats, then both bus driving and Class 2 driving have to be under EU rules. If it was minibus work and Class 2, then what you’re saying is correct, that’s how I understand it reading all that I have.I would be interested to know where in the regulations that’s said.
As DAF95XF is working to domestic regulations on the buses then I see no reason why that would change except for the daily/weekly rest periods on days and weeks when he does some driving to EU regulations.
Vehicles used for the carriage of passengers on a regular service with a route that does not exceed 50 km is exempt from EU regulations
Page 9 - Rules on Drivers’ Hours and Tachographs Passenger-carrying vehicles in the UK and Europe:
ExemptionsVehicles used for the carriage of passengers on
regular services with a route that does not exceed
50 km.Page 25 (same link as above):
Mixed EU/AETR and GB domestic drivingMany drivers spend some of their time driving under one set of rules and some under another set,
perhaps even on the same day. If you work partly under EU/AETR rules and partly under GB domestic
rules during a day or a week, the following points must be considered:
- The time you spend driving or on duty under EU/AETR rules cannot count as a break or rest period
under GB domestic rules.- Driving and other duty under GB domestic rules (including non-driving work in another employment)
count as other work but not as a break or rest period under EU/AETR rules.- Driving and other duty under EU/AETR rules count towards the driving and duty limits under the GB
domestic rules.- When driving under each set of rules you must comply with the requirements of the rules being driven
under e.g. the daily rest provisions for domestic and the daily and weekly rest requirements for
EU/AETR driving.
Thing is, Stu is an out of town driver so a couple of his routes do exceed 50k there and back. So it’d be classed as EU rules wouldn’t it?
Adam_Mc:
Thing is, Stu is an out of town driver so a couple of his routes do exceed 50k there and back. So it’d be classed as EU rules wouldn’t it?
Actually Adam, if I was exceeding 50km Id already be using tachos…