Engine/driveline:
fuel: diesel, power output: 380 hp, power take-off
Chassis/suspension:
suspension: spring, axle configuration: 4x2, number of axles: 2, wheel base: 3.800 mm, rear tires: 315/80R22.5, light alloy wheels
Cab/interior:
cab type: sleeper cab
That’s an ad on the tinterweb for a 2003 4 legger…
So 7200kg net - is that a tare weight, would that include fuel etc?? But anyway, 7200kg doesn’t leave a lot of room for fuel, passengers, load etc if you wanted to keep it under the 7500kg MAM
It used to be the tractor unit must be registered ‘private’ and the fith wheel removed.
Not in my lifetime over 7.5 tonne GVW (not plated weight) - a class 3 used to cover a solo 4x2 tractor unit - a class 2, a 3 axle solo unit- any solo unit under 7.5 tonne could be driven on a pre 1997 licence regardless of the amount of axles- Taxation class is immaterial as is wether it has a fifth wheel fitted or not
waynedl:
I’ve put the parts I think are relevent in bold, ie, even if a tractor unit weighs in at 7450kg, it’s MAM can still be 18000 kg or whatever, meaning it can’t be driven on a car licence?
You can, in most circumstances, downplate a vehicle to a lower MAM if you want to take advantage of cheaper tax or a different licence category.
So you could take a 4x2 tractor unit that weighed, say, 7000kg, and downplate it from 18000kg to 7499kg and you could then drive it on a C1 licence that us oldies got for free when we passed our car test pre 1997.
BuzzardBoy:
So, could you theoretically drive a tractor unit and a small trailer/caravan(under 750kgs) on a towball hitch like the one above(i know the caravan above weighs more than 750kgs)
As long as you have C1E on your licence and the tractor unit itself weighs in at under 7500kg with everything you want in it (i.e. passengers, fuel, luggage, etc) then I would think you can probably downplate it to 7499kg and tow a caravan with an MGW of 750kg or less legally.
Seems like a lot of messing about to tow a tiny little caravan though! You’ll only get something very small at that kind of weight.
BuzzardBoy:
So, could you theoretically drive a tractor unit and a small trailer/caravan(under 750kgs) on a towball hitch like the one above(i know the caravan above weighs more than 750kgs)
As long as you have C1E on your licence and the tractor unit itself weighs in at under 7500kg with everything you want in it (i.e. passengers, fuel, luggage, etc) then I would think you can probably downplate it to 7499kg and tow a caravan with an MGW of 750kg or less legally.
Seems like a lot of messing about to tow a tiny little caravan though! You’ll only get something very small at that kind of weight.
Paul
Paul
I have no intention whatsoever of buying a unit to tow a caravan with, it was just one of my random Toby-esque thoughts!!
I saw these in J9 a couple of weeks ago and got me thinking
You can drive a vehicle up to 7500kgs on a car license pre Jan 1997 and tow a trailer up to 750kgs…
So, could you theoretically drive a tractor unit and a small trailer/caravan(under 750kgs) on a towball hitch like the one above(i know the caravan above weighs more than 750kgs)
Is it just me or do the back wheels on that truck look a lot smaller than normal? And the only thing we can come up with, is that the unit would handle like a pig with no weight over the back axle.
As long as you have C1E on your licence and the tractor unit itself weighs in at under 7500kg with everything you want in it (i.e. passengers, fuel, luggage, etc) then I would think you can probably downplate it to 7499kg and tow a caravan with an MGW of 750kg or less legally.
Seems like a lot of messing about to tow a tiny little caravan though! You’ll only get something very small at that kind of weight.
Paul
Depends some people with inherited rights have a 102 code which is drawbar trailers only
Which that bends so you wouldn’t be able to drive it… am I right in staying that?
K5Project:
Depends some people with inherited rights have a 102 code which is drawbar trailers only
Which that bends so you wouldn’t be able to drive it… am I right in staying that?
I think you’re thinking of people who have CE with the 102 restriction as they got their licence from an old style class2, whereas I’m talking about the C1 and C1E categories that everyone who did their car test before 1997 automatically got on their licence.
BuzzardBoy:
So, could you theoretically drive a tractor unit and a small trailer/caravan(under 750kgs) on a towball hitch like the one above(i know the caravan above weighs more than 750kgs)
As long as you have C1E on your licence and the tractor unit itself weighs in at under 7500kg with everything you want in it (i.e. passengers, fuel, luggage, etc) then I would think you can probably downplate it to 7499kg and tow a caravan with an MGW of 750kg or less legally.
Seems like a lot of messing about to tow a tiny little caravan though! You’ll only get something very small at that kind of weight.
Paul
If you had C1E, why would the trailer have to be under 750kg? Because of the 8250kg limit? Because the E gets you away from the 750kg tow limit, C1 would be fine for a 7499kg unit with a 750kg trailer surely?
I thought C1E had a combination limit of 12000kg?
edit Just checked DVLA website
tinterweb:
C1 Medium sized vehicle Vehicles between 3,500 kg and 7,500 kg with a trailer up to 750 kg.
C1+E Medium sized vehicle with trailers Combinations of vehicles where the towing vehicle is in subcategory C1 and its trailer has a MAM of over 750 kg provided that the MAM of the combination thus formed does not exceed 12,000 kg and MAM of the trailer does not exceed the unladen mass of the towing vehicle.
waynedl:
If you had C1E, why would the trailer have to be under 750kg? Because of the 8250kg limit? Because the E gets you away from the 750kg tow limit, C1 would be fine for a 7499kg unit with a 750kg trailer surely?
I thought C1E had a combination limit of 12000kg?
edit Just checked DVLA website
tinterweb:
C1 Medium sized vehicle Vehicles between 3,500 kg and 7,500 kg with a trailer up to 750 kg.
C1+E Medium sized vehicle with trailers Combinations of vehicles where the towing vehicle is in subcategory C1 and its trailer has a MAM of over 750 kg provided that the MAM of the combination thus formed does not exceed 12,000 kg and MAM of the trailer does not exceed the unladen mass of the towing vehicle.
You’re right in that C1E ordinarily has a maximum of 12000kg, however if you got C1 and C1E “for free” with a car licence pre 1997 it has endorsment 107 on it which is “not more than 8250kg”. So for a vehicle plated at 7500kg you can’t actually tow anything bigger than you would be able to on a C1 licence anyway (i.e. a trailer up to 750kg MAM).
However, if your towing vehicle is plated lower it lets you tow more, say for example a 5000kg MAM vehicle would allow you to tow a trailer up to 3250kg MAM.
So in the original example that started this post you could probably get a DAF75 4x2 unit (which according to DAF’s website weighs somewhere around 6100kg with a sleeper cab), downplate it to something like 6600kg (500kg should be enough for 2 people, fuel and luggage) and that would allow you to tow a caravan up to 1650kg MAM which would allow you to go for just about any sized 'van.
waynedl:
If you had C1E, why would the trailer have to be under 750kg? Because of the 8250kg limit? Because the E gets you away from the 750kg tow limit, C1 would be fine for a 7499kg unit with a 750kg trailer surely?
I thought C1E had a combination limit of 12000kg?
edit Just checked DVLA website
tinterweb:
C1 Medium sized vehicle Vehicles between 3,500 kg and 7,500 kg with a trailer up to 750 kg.
C1+E Medium sized vehicle with trailers Combinations of vehicles where the towing vehicle is in subcategory C1 and its trailer has a MAM of over 750 kg provided that the MAM of the combination thus formed does not exceed 12,000 kg and MAM of the trailer does not exceed the unladen mass of the towing vehicle.
You’re right in that C1E ordinarily has a maximum of 12000kg, however if you got C1 and C1E “for free” with a car licence pre 1997 it has endorsment 107 on it which is “not more than 8250kg”. So for a vehicle plated at 7500kg you can’t actually tow anything bigger than you would be able to on a C1 licence anyway (i.e. a trailer up to 750kg MAM).
However, if your towing vehicle is plated lower it lets you tow more, say for example a 5000kg MAM vehicle would allow you to tow a trailer up to 3250kg MAM.
So in the original example that started this post you could probably get a DAF75 4x2 unit (which according to DAF’s website weighs somewhere around 6100kg with a sleeper cab), downplate it to something like 6600kg (500kg should be enough for 2 people, fuel and luggage) and that would allow you to tow a caravan up to 1650kg MAM which would allow you to go for just about any sized 'van.
Paul
Thanks for that, bloody licencing laws are a minefield, I passed after 1997, so basically had nothing and had to sit tests to get everything, even now my licence doesn’t actually show me to have a 7.5t licence, even though I’ve got a CE
Not something I’d ever like to argue in court lol.
waynedl:
Thanks for that, bloody licencing laws are a minefield, I passed after 1997, so basically had nothing and had to sit tests to get everything, even now my licence doesn’t actually show me to have a 7.5t licence, even though I’ve got a CE
Not something I’d ever like to argue in court lol.
It can be very confusing, that’s for sure.
Your C and CE cover C1 and C1E without it needing to be explicitly stated on your driving licence as the definition of C is “vehicles over 3500kg” which clearly includes 7.5tonners.
waynedl:
Thanks for that, bloody licencing laws are a minefield, I passed after 1997, so basically had nothing and had to sit tests to get everything, even now my licence doesn’t actually show me to have a 7.5t licence, even though I’ve got a CE
Not something I’d ever like to argue in court lol.
It can be very confusing, that’s for sure.
Your C and CE cover C1 and C1E without it needing to be explicitly stated on your driving licence as the definition of C is “vehicles over 3500kg” which clearly includes 7.5tonners.
Paul
I did expect that, and it not being on my licence has never prevented me from driving one for obvious reasons, still could be touchy if someone wanted to go by the letter and say “you don’t have a licence for that!”…
waynedl:
I did expect that, and it not being on my licence has never prevented me from driving one for obvious reasons, still could be touchy if someone wanted to go by the letter and say “you don’t have a licence for that!”…
They can say that if they like but they are quite clearly wrong. By the letter of the law you have a licence to drive any goods vehicle over 3500kg and a 7500kg plated vehicle clearly fits that category. The area between 3500kg and 7500kg is covered by both categories C1 and C, either is enough to be legal by both the letter and spirit of the law.
Just been through this. If the tractor is rated at over 7.5 tonnes gvw and 8.25 mam, then it will be a C1 which can be driven on a car license gained pre-97.
If it is plated above these weights, which the DAF would likly be, then it will need to be downrated to be driven on that license. Downrating should be OK provided the unladen weight of the tractor is at least 2t less than the new gvw - so in the case of the DAF, the unladen weight should be no more than 5.5t to enable downplating to 7.5t. The actual downrating itself is straightforward, usually reducing the capacity of the suspension which is followed by a test and replate at a VOSA test station. Then you will need to get the log book details amended through the DVLA.
Contact SV Tech, they are the experts who can advise whether your truck can be downrated and, if so, they will provide the kit and i structions and will even make the VOSA appointment. But remember, if the current plate is more than 7.5 gvw amd 8.25 mam, you cannot drive on a car license under any circumstances.
Eurovic22:
Downrating should be OK provided the unladen weight of the tractor is at least 2t less than the new gvw - so in the case of the DAF, the unladen weight should be no more than 5.5t to enable downplating to 7.5t. The actual downrating itself is straightforward, usually reducing the capacity of the suspension which is followed by a test and replate at a VOSA test station. Then you will need to get the log book details amended through the DVLA.
No chance in this example then, even the lightest DAF75 4x2 unit weighs in at about 6t according to their website. Is that a hard and fast rule or just some kind of flexible guideline?
Apparently the VOSA position is that to justify a downrating the new GVW still needs to be able to allow a reasonable (in their opinion) payload. Of what I can gather, on a 7.5t plate the minimum payload would be 2t - whether that is abolute or whether there is discretion or exceptions, I don’t know. Gareth Marsh at SV Tech could clarify - they are great at answering these queries and determining what can be done and they don’t charge for the advice. Sorry, I don’t have their url to hand, but Google them and they’ll appear.
