Drivers Unity - A pipe dream or possible reality?

UK PROFESSIONAL DRIVERS FORUMS THE UK PROFESSIONAL DRIVERS FORUM (INTERACTIVE)
101

robroy:

Evil8Beezle:
I think that may be a little too strong Beaver, as we need to remember that it’s not really legal to strike anymore, and unions as a whole have been castrated. Anyone who kicks up a fuss is easily tossed aside and replaced within a heartbeat, as we now have an open door policy importing cheap labour from almost anywhere…

And what if you did have a case to take your employer to court or an employment tribunal? You won’t get legal aid, as that too has been done away with. Instead the common man/woman will be forced to go with a “No win, no fee” agreement.
And that may as well be entitled: “If you weren’t being screwed before, you will be now!!!”

What you have just highlighted are only a few of the examples of ‘The Establishment’ agenda. ie. Keeping the Great unwashed working class in their place to maintain their stranglehold on us. :bulb:

All rights won by our Grandfathers have all been lost and/or handed back, and in a lot of cases far to easily.
A lot of this was due to the reaction of the balance being tipped the other way, when the Trade Unions gained too much power in the 70s.
This has resulted in the word ‘Union’ becoming a dirty word with a lot of modern workers.
However a ‘union of drivers’ (with a small ‘u’ ) is a lot different to an official Trade Union, this as far as I understand it, is what is being proposed in this case.

note;…Sorry to sound like Carryfast in this post btw :blush: promise to NEVER do it again. :laughing:

The difference is I don’t think the unions did have ‘too much power’ in the 1970’s.What we did have were rightly powerful unions which were hijacked by the Socialist cause.In which case,bearing in mind that the establishment has shown itself more than happy to ditch Fordist Capitalism in favour of cheap Communist labour through ‘trade’ with China,who actually had most to gain from that ?.In just the same way as who had most to gain by locking up Hoffa and his permanent removal from the scene. :bulb:

102

Maybe so Carryfast, but is this relavent to this thread, having established that the proposal has nothing to do with a Trade Union, but a union (in the literal sense) amongst drivers.

So let’s not turn it into another 5 pages of 70s politics again eh mate, and stick to the thread topic. :bulb:

103

robroy:
Maybe so Carryfast, but is this relavent to this thread, having established that the proposal has nothing to do with a Trade Union, but a union (in the literal sense) amongst drivers.

So let’s not turn it into another 5 pages of 70s politics again eh mate, and stick to the thread topic. :bulb:

I’d guess that the Teamsters were/are a union of drivers in the ‘literal sense’.The bit that’s relevant about the 1970’s ( 1960’s in this case ) being that any type of ‘Union’ is only as strong as its level of unity and militancy. :bulb:

104

Carryfast:

robroy:
Maybe so Carryfast, but is this relavent to this thread, having established that the proposal has nothing to do with a Trade Union, but a union (in the literal sense) amongst drivers.

So let’s not turn it into another 5 pages of 70s politics again eh mate, and stick to the thread topic. :bulb:

I’d guess that the Teamsters were/are a union of drivers in the ‘literal sense’.The bit that’s relevant about the 1970’s ( 1960’s in this case ) being that any type of ‘Union’ is only as strong as its level of unity and militancy. :bulb:

Unity? Ok yeh. Whether the use of agression and threats, which usually go hand in hand with militancy, are relavent in modern negotiations (other than an absolute last resort) is questionable. (not to mention maybe inappropriate in the thread topic case)

As for Trade union militancy today, any sign of that, culminating in industrial action, in todays employment relations situations, are usually dealt with by a phone call to the dreaded agencies, leaving the employed workers up ■■■■ creek.

105

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106

On a personal level, I have no time for unions. My philosophy is it’s one thing an employer that is paying you wages telling you what to do is one thing, but when fellow workers try to dictate what you will and will not do, then that is simply not on (for me at least).

I have been alienated at some places because I won’t join the union, but why would I pay union subs when the union is often ‘in the gaffers pocket’ and backs down at every occasion, or they are geared towards political affiliations that I simply have no time for.

Drivers unity is a joke… :confused:

107

I’m a slave driver
in slave master company I work.
For a paycheck I must never ask
so that I’m not kicked out.

The truck I’m driving by myself,
not for money, but for Glory,
I’m slave in a big company,
I’m slave of a sinking country.

That’s enough I said to myself
and for Union I raised my hand

And countless numbers we became
in this bloody union of ours.
The companies legs started shaking
because the slaves raised their heads.

And we became great power,
Eddie Stobarts, Willy Betz, Waberers,
Fercam, Norberts, started crying enough,
we will pay you as you must,
you just work as you should.

:laughing: :laughing:

108

robroy:

Carryfast:
I’d guess that the Teamsters were/are a union of drivers in the ‘literal sense’.The bit that’s relevant about the 1970’s ( 1960’s in this case ) being that any type of ‘Union’ is only as strong as its level of unity and militancy. :bulb:

Unity? Ok yeh. Whether the use of agression and threats, which usually go hand in hand with militancy, are relavent in modern negotiations (other than an absolute last resort) is questionable. (not to mention maybe inappropriate in the thread topic case)

As for Trade union militancy today, any sign of that, culminating in industrial action, in todays employment relations situations, are usually dealt with by a phone call to the dreaded agencies, leaving the employed workers up [zb] creek.

If the ‘negotiations’ aren’t being undertaken from a position of unity and militancy then the negotiations can only go one way and that won’t be in favour of the workers.

As for strike breaking using non unionised labour that would have been familiar to any union member of the 1920’s/30’s and as history shows was best dealt with under the heading of unity in this case meaning persuasion that joining the union and backing each other and not under cutting each other is in everyone’s interests,not by threats or aggression. :bulb:

109

You wont change anything by striking thats for sure at the end of the day this industry needs to change on every level . I have been in transport for nearly 30 years and little by little i see the job goes down hill , our working conditions are eroding week by week but change will only come by unity and standing up in a collective body to discuss these issues with the government and the larger PLC s they will only listen when enough people shout loudly enough so as we are heard , personally i dont care if the boss drives a nice car and earns well from what i do as long as he pays me and treats me with respect after all he is entitled to make a living as he is taking enormous financial risks .Maybe the PDU will come to something maybe it wont but really is £25 not worth investing to at least give it a chance ?

110

You cannot change anything by legally striking. It’s effective striking that’s already been made illegal you see…

Example: Some pickets are standing by the brazier near the gate of the yard they are picketing. Managers are trying to run the place by themselves, Health & safety be damned.

A truck turns up, and the pickets won’t let them cross… Truck tries to barge in anyways. One picketer pulls driver from cab, NOT to “duff him over” or any other form of assault - but merely to seperate him from the vehicle keys, which are then confiscated, and thrown down the nearest drain… There’s now a nice 38t roadblock right in front of said gate, and nothing is coming or going until someone from the council turns up to fish the keys out of the drain. Not likely if it’s night time, weekend, or a bank holiday… :arrow_right:
…Picket is a 100% success, nothing has been removed from the site, so nothing has been stolen.

If “Sabotage” was “throwing one’s clogs into the works” in tradition - then what fancy foreign-sounding name could one give to the above action described?
(obviously illegal, but was not always so)

Power is taken - not given away. If the ‘law’ says “Get back in your box and stay there” - and you do… You had no power, have no power, and will never have any power. :wink: :bulb:

Civil disobedience seems to have gone out of fashion… It’s not easy to order troops/police/security guards to set about physically harming people who have shown zero violence towards anyone else…
No new Union will ever rise to prominence until it realizes that they have to carve out their own version of what’s right and wrong. Laws that start out being against the ordinary rank-and-file worker don’t go away when one “Protests”

  • They go away when the “protesters” start breaking those laws, but in non-violent ways. :wink:
111

Winseer:
You cannot change anything by legally striking. It’s effective striking that’s already been made illegal you see…

Example: Some pickets are standing by the brazier near the gate of the yard they are picketing. Managers are trying to run the place by themselves, Health & safety be damned.

A truck turns up, and the pickets won’t let them cross… Truck tries to barge in anyways. One picketer pulls driver from cab, NOT to “duff him over” or any other form of assault - but merely to seperate him from the vehicle keys, which are then confiscated, and thrown down the nearest drain…Picket is a 100% success, nothing has been removed from the site, so nothing has been stolen.

In an ideal world it would actually be a case of deterrents based on unity.In which case the scenario would be more along the lines of a minimum picket of one or two people.The driver is also a union member.Who when informed of the situation turns around and informs the guvnor that the load can’t be delivered.Any action taken against the driver results in escalation of the action then involving the whole transport sector from dockers to train drivers.The so called ‘militant’ attitudes of the 1970’s make more sense when ‘unity’ is taken to that logical conclusion. :bulb:

112

Carryfast:

Winseer:
You cannot change anything by legally striking. It’s effective striking that’s already been made illegal you see…

Example: Some pickets are standing by the brazier near the gate of the yard they are picketing. Managers are trying to run the place by themselves, Health & safety be damned.

A truck turns up, and the pickets won’t let them cross… Truck tries to barge in anyways. One picketer pulls driver from cab, NOT to “duff him over” or any other form of assault - but merely to seperate him from the vehicle keys, which are then confiscated, and thrown down the nearest drain…Picket is a 100% success, nothing has been removed from the site, so nothing has been stolen.

In an ideal world it would actually be a case of deterrents based on unity.In which case the scenario would be more along the lines of a minimum picket of one or two people.The driver is also a union member.Who when informed of the situation turns around and informs the guvnor that the load can’t be delivered.Any action taken against the driver results in escalation of the action then involving the whole transport sector from dockers to train drivers.The so called ‘militant’ attitudes of the 1970’s make more sense when ‘unity’ is taken to that logical conclusion. :bulb:

Typically, a driver who’s not in the Union will be asked to cross a picket line. Refusal can then result in instant dismissal with no comeback for the solidarity-attempting bod on their own here.
Whilst on agency, I purposefully avoided being available for work on days when it was obvious that agency folk would be sent in to “strike break”.
I can still say with pride that I’ve never crossed a picket line - despite not being in all the unions that might have been involved.

If the blockaded driver was in the Union, then they would be standing on the picket line themselves - NOT being told “Sorry bud, we’re on strike here, but you didn’t know”. Third party picketing or “Flying Pickets” is already very illegal. With that, the ability to conduct an effective strike that brings the place to a standstill as strikes are traditionally meant to do - has been abolished. The only way back now is for a large body of a new organization to say “Hey! - It’s upto US - Not those we pay the wages of - to decide OUR fate here…”

All successful revolutions in history reached tipping point - when the Army (made up of ordinary people) decided that THEY are the people and will SIDE with the people, rather than some distant high-ranking paymaster who doesn’t even know their name until it’s time to write a “We regret to inform you” letter to their relatives…

With that, I’ll state that to push the “Republican Movement” in this country right now is highly dangerous ideal to chase - since it pushes the rank and file forces personnel another step away from "Who are you fighting for? - No longer Queen and Country but some Republican “Presidente” who didn’t even get a majority poll■■? Who’s gonna pledge alligence to THEM? Far easier to take the side of the people protesting in the streets against some republican skulduggery against the people - and finally flip over to the people when your new republican CinC commands you start shooting people you were living in the same towns as a few weeks before…

113

LIBERTY_GUY:
On a personal level, I have no time for unions. My philosophy is it’s one thing an employer that is paying you wages telling you what to do is one thing, but when fellow workers try to dictate what you will and will not do, then that is simply not on (for me at least).

I have been alienated at some places because I won’t join the union, but why would I pay union subs when the union is often ‘in the gaffers pocket’ and backs down at every occasion, or they are geared towards political affiliations that I simply have no time for.

Drivers unity is a joke… :confused:

+1…says it all. been there and done it as some firms as well…save your 25 quid as its only a waste of money scam at the end of the day,professional drivers only exist when your in court getting done. a united drivers front is a complete joke.itl never happen in the uk.end of.
work for a company that suits you,and if it don’t,then work for one that does…or…be a plobber with a Tosco job or perish the thought,start with the agencies and bleat on continuously about how drivers rights in the uk are pish.

114

this is not an organisation that will have any clout to change anything without the threat of strike action .

you can write boring letters til you are blue in the face , bosses need a giggle .

joining a union these days has nothing really to do with collective bargaining , its just a means to access excellent legal cover , some sick pay and free advice about medical issues and cheapish life cover . but you wont get better conditions out of it ! not whilst there is large supply of ex soviet bums who agencies can fly in for a few quid .

on the subject of the 70’s . people lost faith in union power when they saw it used by a bunch of liberals to feather their own nest , and if the strongest union (NUM) in country cannot strike effectively then there is little hope of it working elsewhere .

but wot broke the miners strike ■■?

scab lorry drivers !!

chickens coming home to roost me thinks

115

also this Tozer bloke . rings a bell

isnt he the idiot who used to do those fuel protest things ■■

116

boredwivdrivin:
also this Tozer bloke . rings a bell

isnt he the idiot who used to do those fuel protest things ■■

That was Ben Scammel who organised fuel protests, then claimed to be setting up a fuel card called “Pipeline”.

117

my apologies to him then .

but i have heard the name before

where ■■

118

Evil8Beezle:

eagerbeaver:
What doesn’t help the situation either is us newbies! The temptation is to take ANY job however low paid, in order to start building experience.

I think that were are just a mere drop in the ocean, as I don’t think there are that many coming through.
It’s far more likely the import and thus glut of drivers, that have held wages down.

You don’t think it has anything to do with the crap rates hauliers are running their trucks for then?

119

A post put on the group page :arrow_right: (might make clearer to some)

2016 will soon be on us and “out with the old and in with the new”
Can I please invite you all to take a few minutes to read a simple new year speech below.
I am no journalist so consider the bits between the lines and what is trying to be said in a short version, before dismissing without thought or consideration.
Thank you.

New Year Speech by the PDU

I can only ask myself and you if 2016 is going to be the year of change within the profession of UK Drivers. Is this the year we can finally see some unity forming and solidarity to bring about change and gain the respect you all deserve?

For 30 years now our profession has been on a downhill slope with conditions, facilities, rules and regulations… It has been like a car running downhill with no one in place to apply the brakes. The PDU wants to get good people together to first stop the car then turn it round and push it back up the hill to get the brakes repaired and working to a high standard so it will never again run downhill with no brakes.

It will take a long time, no overnight success stories or miracles can take place, but the more good people willing to support and push the car then the easier it will get to push it uphill. Only when together we can stop the downhill run and start to push it back up can we get it to where it should be.

United and working together brings respect and respect brings the advantages of people talking and listening and working to solve the issues. In turn this brings about more pride in our profession and friendship and camaraderie develop to make our profession strong and respected by not just the Industry we work in but also the general public who once again will see the “knights of the road”
The PDU-UK have the determination and the will power to take this on and stop the downhill run into oblivion, jobs are at risk as well as the conditions and facilities and only with a lot of hard work, talking, debate and negotiations can our profession once again be respected.

It cannot be achieved without the support of you, not just the few who can see the future but also those sitting on the fence and hoping for better things. The majority of Drivers need to unite and form a solidarity that can be recognized. Just like many other professions we must work together and resolve the many issues and bring about the change needed to make us proud to be in this career and called Truckers.

Yes there is one thing that is making you hesitate on joining the unity and supporting what could be something strong. It will cost you £25.00 of your hard earned, and many will look at the past in paying unions to do sod all, or consider it a scam and money making exercise and think it a waste of money.

The PDU can fully understand and respect those thoughts, but at this point in time we can only ask you consider giving it a chance and support the unity.

The PDU with your support will prove its worth, will work hard to earn your respect and gain your trust. It has already started to work on the unity and unlike many before we are acting and not just talking the talk to resolve the many issues.

Consider your £25 as an investment in your future and hopefully the returns will be far more than you will get in a bank or building society.

2016 could be the year we can look back on and say this is the year Truckers in the UK woke up and recognized that change can only be achieved if we want it and are willing to support it as one united profession working together towards the same goals.

I use the word “RESPECT” a lot because I consider it one of the most important goals to aim for. Respect each other as we are a very diverse profession with each individual having his own considerations of what is best for his Family and future and not all understand their choices in life.

We all hold a licence but move in differing directions, but by bringing the diversity together and acting and respecting each other we grow strong and with this strength we will no longer be working in poor conditions with no respect but consulted and talked to with due respect.

We ask you to make 2016 the year of change, the unity has started and the long uphill battle to resolve the many issues is beginning to take place.

Stop sitting on the fence, hoping and dreaming because divided and broken nothing will ever change for the better.

Join the unity today, give us the support of solidarity and let us together make a start in pushing that car back up the hill.

Professional Drivers Uniting- UK
www.pdu-uk.co.uk
Thank you.

120

A nice speech and true to the words written, i do support this great cause and agree that a lot of changes to this industry need to be discussed and applied where possible, i also agree that it doesnt suit every driver, of course there are those who are quite happy with their job and the boss him/herself, those who have never believed in being unionised, but i can state here and now, that when we had the TGWU, when we had no choice but to belong to a union in order to work for a decent company, we commanded more respect, for it not only gave drivers respect, but the bosses respected and valued us, but thanks to Maggie a lot of union rights were taken away. This Campaign is being set up to bring back a force to be reckoned with, a power in this once great industry, that can be great again if its supported and i am semi retired now ( its possible i will retire in the very near future ) but i will support Barrie, and support this cause, but will watch with bated breath for the support it deserves.