Two of my work colleagues asked the same question to two different police traffic officers.
If you are in queueing traffic for, as an example, 20 minutes, on a digi tacho when the vehicle is not moving it automatically changes to other work. Both police officers stated that as we are still in control of the vehicle it should be classed as driving time and taken into account when working out when to take your 45 min break. The officer stated that if we had already driven for 4 hours then including the 20 mins spent in traffic we had actually done 4 hrs 20 mins driving and could be prosecuted for exceeding driving hours if we drove for,again as an example, a further 20 mins to get to some where to park up.
Apparently this dates back to manual tachos when we had to change the mode switch ourselves.
I seem to recall from the depths of my mind that if we were on our daily rest period and had an alcoholic beverage whilst in the cab, we could be done for drink driving. So are we not always in control of our vehicles then?
madmackem:
If you are in queueing traffic for, as an example, 20 minutes, on a digi tacho when the vehicle is not moving it automatically changes to other work. Both police officers stated that as we are still in control of the vehicle it should be classed as driving time and taken into account when working out when to take your 45 min break. The officer stated that if we had already driven for 4 hours then including the 20 mins spent in traffic we had actually done 4 hrs 20 mins driving and could be prosecuted for exceeding driving hours if we drove for,again as an example, a further 20 mins to get to some where to park up.
Total utter BS. The driving time is as recorded by the digital tacho, end of.
i can understand were they are comming from but the tacho is what it is and is designed to record in that way ,neither you or i designed the damned thing we just comply with the information it gives us ,if you drve into a delivery point and they said ''park over there we’ll give you a shout ''and you was there for 3 hours because your sat in the cab and can’t leave then you cant be on break as you haven’t chose that spot to have it, so under there interpretation your still driving as your still in charge, if i left home on a monday and returned on sat morning geuss what, iv’e been in charge all week,i don’t think so and i know what i would do,i also asked a traffic officer who was not my friend but i asked him any way ‘‘how many cats eyes are there per mile of motorway ?’’ not knowing he said he would find out ,a week or so later when i bumped into him he said he’s searched everywhere and can’t give me an answer,i said it’s ok i found it, the answer is twice as many as there are cats ars*holes ,he was livid but ■■■■ him
The police and Dvsa stopped me, I got fined £ 1000 and six penalty points for not wearing a Scuba divers kit while driving near water, I have contacted my lawyers and have. been told I attracted attention for not wearing a snorkel, hard hat, hi viz ,safety goggles and a harness while driving.
My dcpc instructor has confirmed it and said it is illegal.
Load of rubbish. The first generation of digi tachos recorded, as an example, if the vehicle moved for 30 seconds in UTC 10.35 and 20 seconds in UTC 10.36, total of 50 seconds consecutive, then two minutes would be added to total driving.
The new generation of tachographs are now down to seconds. You only have to move for five seconds in queuing traffic and the tacho will still record other work. Try it. Stuck in traffic and see how long cross hammers stays on even when moving for one car length.
The legend Tachograph will no doubt correct me.
There is a difference between driving and being in control of a vehicle I believe; the police can’t be expected to know absolutely everything in law (they are human don’t forget) and they are mistaken in this respect.
beanie:
Load of rubbish. The first generation of digi tachos recorded, as an example, if the vehicle moved for 30 seconds in UTC 10.35 and 20 seconds in UTC 10.36, total of 50 seconds consecutive, then two minutes would be added to total driving.
The new generation of tachographs are now down to seconds. You only have to move for five seconds in queuing traffic and the tacho will still record other work. Try it. Stuck in traffic and see how long cross hammers stays on even when moving for one car length.
The legend Tachograph will no doubt correct me.
Yes the newer digi tachos are fairer in terms of recording of driving time but IME you only need to do about 6 seconds driving at the start of a tacho minute and another 6 at the end of the 3rd tacho minute (i.e. stopped for c. 2 minutes 40 seconds) for all 3 minuted to be recorded as driving on the original digi tachos. I am still annoyed by that after all these years. And as long as you move for less than 30 seconds in a tacho minute, it won’t be recorded as drving on the newer types. They will still record everything as driving in stop-start conditions if you’re not careful though.
ROG:
My guess is that the cops were both correct …
Driving under UK domestic regs means driving time is time spent behind the wheel
Driving under EU regs means driving time is time that the tacho records as driving
In both cases the driver is deemed in charge of driving a vehicle under the RTA
I think the police were confused by mixing domestic and eu regs together, they are correct on domestic, and incorrect on eu, the definitions on driving for both regs are completely different.
You also don’t actually need to be driving a vehicle to be in charge of it either.
Under the road traffic act and the definition of driving within that act then the copper is correct. Within the definition of driving that they use, whilst in queueing traffic you are driving.
However, under tacho rules you aren’t. Your only driving when the wheels are rolling.
So the copper is right when using the definition of driving that he knows and uses to apply to all the RTA. But I think he needs to go and read up on tacho rules if he wants to get pedantic!
Source: I used to be in the police and am now an HGV driver, so I can see both sides.
madmackem:
Two of my work colleagues asked the same question to two different police traffic officers.
If you are in queueing traffic for, as an example, 20 minutes, on a digi tacho when the vehicle is not moving it automatically changes to other work. Both police officers stated that as we are still in control of the vehicle it should be classed as driving time and taken into account when working out when to take your 45 min break. The officer stated that if we had already driven for 4 hours then including the 20 mins spent in traffic we had actually done 4 hrs 20 mins driving and could be prosecuted for exceeding driving hours if we drove for,again as an example, a further 20 mins to get to some where to park up.
The 2 coppers were talking nonsense, using a digital tachograph you’re most likely to be on EU regulations so as has been said only time recorded by the tachograph as driving is driving time.
If you are using a digital tachograph on domestic regulations you would have it out of scope which was not mentioned in the OPs post or presumably in the questions asked.
