Harry Monk:
JaxDemon:
I’ve got my class 1 test tomorrowGood luck.
Thanks 
To put the reason for the driver shortage in perspective, somebody posted that they were on £7.80 an hour, working nights, driving an HGV.
My son started work at the local hospital earlier this year, working days, 11-7, serving meals to patients, emptying bins and general helping out, he was 17 when he started (he’s 18 now) and he is on over £8 an hour.
Evil8Beezle:
I’m thinking of starting a Carryfast fan club, anyone interested?I agree with Muckles, and think CF has shot himself in the foot many a time and just can’t see it. Experience is important, but so is being a team player and having a ‘can do’ attitude that doesn’t involve getting the hump, seeking approval, and needing a moan. Basically a boss wants an employee that they know will be getting on with the work, and when there is a problem, a real problem, they will get told by that employee. i.e. Fire them off on a task and forget them! Do you think you fit that mold CF?
You seem to be contradicting yourself in that the self sufficient own initiative type job ( IE international freight work ) ( which I was looking for ) type of job is the total anti thesis of the team player uk heavy haulage/factory removals type job which I wasn’t.The issue being the accessibility of either to new entrants into those sectors.While ironically,in my case,there ‘might’,possibly have been slightly more chance of getting into the latter through knowing someone working at Adams in the day and that being slightly closer to the type of work I was doing as a council driver,than the former.In which case no I was happier doing night trunking in that regard with no issues concerning any so called lack of a ‘can do’ attitude or being any more of a moaner than those who I worked with.
None of which changes my point of new drivers being rightly put off by the dodgy career entry and progression structure within the industry.Much of which arguably being the result of ES’s type of closed minded attitudes to inexperienced drivers. 
Harry Monk:
To put the reason for the driver shortage in perspective, somebody posted that they were on £7.80 an hour, working nights, driving an HGV.My son started work at the local hospital earlier this year, working days, 11-7, serving meals to patients, emptying bins and general helping out, he was 17 when he started (he’s 18 now) and he is on over £8 an hour.
To be fair you’ve also made the comment about the uk international fleet activeties in the day,being,like myself,what attracted you to the industry.Like me I’m guessing that the wage,in that a job on the line at Ford probably would have paid more per hour,wasn’t your first priority in that regard ?.
Carryfast:
Harry Monk:
To put the reason for the driver shortage in perspective, somebody posted that they were on £7.80 an hour, working nights, driving an HGV.My son started work at the local hospital earlier this year, working days, 11-7, serving meals to patients, emptying bins and general helping out, he was 17 when he started (he’s 18 now) and he is on over £8 an hour.
To be fair you’ve also made the comment about the uk international fleet activeties in the day,being,like myself,what attracted you to the industry.Like me I’m guessing that the wage,in that a job on the line at Ford probably would have paid more per hour,wasn’t your first priority in that regard ?.
No, it wasn’t, although my wages did double overnight when I started driving a truck, which made the cost of getting the licence worthwhile, and back then you could go straight from a car licence to an HGV1 licence. I don’t think I’d jump through all of the extra hoops these days to earn less than I could mopping floors.
Harry Monk:
Carryfast:
To be fair you’ve also made the comment about the uk international fleet activeties in the day,being,like myself,what attracted you to the industry.Like me I’m guessing that the wage,in that a job on the line at Ford probably would have paid more per hour,wasn’t your first priority in that regard ?.No, it wasn’t, although my wages did double overnight when I started driving a truck, which made the cost of getting the licence worthwhile, and back then you could go straight from a car licence to an HGV1 licence. I don’t think I’d jump through all of the extra hoops these days to earn less than I could mopping floors.
That’s fair enough Harry.We can probably add to that things like trackers and cameras and digi tachos.Also the loss of opportunity in the international fleet and downward pressure on wages caused by the East Euro invasion. 
Let alone the issues of the arbitrary nature of the career entry and progression regime which I’ve described.
At which point there probably has to be a point where that modern day metaphorical version of the job on the line at Ford is at least now maybe more of a realistic option for those who can put up with it.
As for me my wages dropped by 20% as a council driver from a redundant factory driver.In which with hindsight I think the job at Ford would have been the better option for around 5 years from leaving school then using the wages to start up as an owner driver.So it wasn’t all roses even then. 
Carryfast:
Evil8Beezle:
I’m thinking of starting a Carryfast fan club, anyone interested?I agree with Muckles, and think CF has shot himself in the foot many a time and just can’t see it. Experience is important, but so is being a team player and having a ‘can do’ attitude that doesn’t involve getting the hump, seeking approval, and needing a moan. Basically a boss wants an employee that they know will be getting on with the work, and when there is a problem, a real problem, they will get told by that employee. i.e. Fire them off on a task and forget them! Do you think you fit that mold CF?
You seem to be contradicting yourself in that the self sufficient own initiative type job ( IE international freight work ) ( which I was looking for ) type of job is the total anti thesis of the team player uk heavy haulage/factory removals type job which I wasn’t.The issue being the accessibility of either to new entrants into those sectors.While ironically,in my case,there ‘might’,possibly have been slightly more chance of getting into the latter through knowing someone working at Adams in the day and that being slightly closer to the type of work I was doing as a council driver,than the former.In which case no I was happier doing night trunking in that regard with no issues concerning any so called lack of a ‘can do’ attitude or being any more of a moaner than those who I worked with.
None of which changes my point of new drivers being rightly put off by the dodgy career entry and progression structure within the industry.Much of which arguably being the result of ES’s type of closed minded attitudes to inexperienced drivers.
By being a team player, I’m talking about working for/in the best interests of the company, not in the best interests of CF, which I think is the only concept you understand… I’m not on about direct contact with others, that’s your assumption. I’m on about the fact that boss probably thought you would be on the phone all the time moaning, reporting problems, and seeing issues that don’t really exist. And then there is the time you do return to base and actually meet the other guys on the firm… It’s like this CF, if you’re not being boring, you’re whining, and when you’re not whining, you’re being…
Rjan:
Norfolkinclue1:
I have a friend who is now on at Co-op Lea Green with only 3 months experience, both he and my neighbour tell me they are often up to 50 drivers short a day.You mean the management are whinging that they are 50 cheap drivers short? So they have to let the work go to a higher bidder, farm it out to expensive subbies, or offer it to drivers on more favourable terms (8am instead of 2am starts)?
I don’t believe for a moment that any single concern at a single location could be 50 drivers a day short. Even a single driver short over a sustained period would mean goods piling up in warehouses and shop shelves starting to empty.
Correct.
Businesses exist for profit. They can’t operate without cost. If cost exceeds profit they’re knackered. They do anything to cut cost or keep them down but refuse to accept a smaller profit or a price rise unless there is no other way.
Before it is even considered they attack wages or bleat about productivity without even considering the waste in most other areas of the business they operate in which is customer and management instigated.
I will gladly work 60/70 hours a week IF the pay and conditions match the effort required to meet the needs of the business. If they don’t then I have no interest in the profits they do or don’t make. Their hopes and ambitions no longer match my own!
And a shiny truck etc has no chance of changing my mind.
Sent from the ether.
Carryfast:
albion:
Carryfast:
Not at all I’m just using my experience as an example bearing in mind that it doesn’t matter or make any difference in my case now.As for getting knocked back ‘once’.No the example I gave was more a case of the final straw that just confirmed what I was already thinking about the career progression and allocation situation within the industry.On that note no I’d regard what happened around almost 10 years before that point,as when the situation started dawning on me,that the reason I was still driving zb council wagons on a zb council job,years after starting on it,instead of a drawbar outfit on international work for example.Was because of the elitist,arbitrary allocation of work nature of the job.In which inexperienced drivers are often seen as mugs to make sure that ‘experienced’ drivers can go on reserving the best jobs for themselves.
If you get knocked back once or twice, that’s the way it goes. If it gets to be a habit, then you need to ask what you need to change about yourself. If your theory was right, I wouldn’t have taken on two guys in their mid 20s on international. After about three months, during which they get their ADR1, they were on an equal footing with the other lads. At the end of the year I look at the wages and everyone earns broadly similar pay, that tells me the newbie youngsters are getting a fair chance.
Surely the idea of saying that you’re happy to take on people in their mid 20’s with no previous international experience.While others with more time in the job,get turned down elsewhere,on the same basis and/or need to bs their way into the job to get an advantage in that regard.Just confirms my comments concerning the arbitrary face fits nature of the career progression structure within the industry as a whole.
I sometimes think CF, that whatever anyone says, you will filter through your own perspective so that it ‘proves’ what you have been saying is correct.
We were looking for a driver, knew this young lad who was doing a few days here and there for another haulier, he was hard working and pleasant, just looking for a break in life and we had a job. Saves us advertising and it’s worked out OK ( so far). Then he had a mate, he came and had an interview and an assessment and he seemed decent and that’s the way it worked. All but two of my drivers have come here because they were a brother/mate neighbour and they are all ages, so it’s a mix of giving old timers and newbies a look in - seems about as fair as you can do.
It’s a case of your face fitting in so far as you can drive a truck, have a pleasant personality ( double manning - anyone fancy a week with CF and his monologues 
?) and some common sense. Because we double man a lot of the time, I don’t put new starts out on their own so youthful inexperience doesn’t worry me as much as if it were single-manned and very few people have experience of what we do, so in many ways, it’s starting from scratch anyway.
fredthered:
I will gladly work 60/70 hours a week IF the pay and conditions match the effort required to meet the needs of the business.
You would gladly work 70 hours a week even for good money?
I wouldn’t. Decent pay for a sustainable amount of work. I’m not saving for a better funeral.
James the cat:
fredthered:
I will gladly work 60/70 hours a week IF the pay and conditions match the effort required to meet the needs of the business.You would gladly work 70 hours a week even for good money?
I wouldn’t. Decent pay for a sustainable amount of work. I’m not saving for a better funeral.
I did say pay and ‘conditions’! No one could sustain working 60/70 hours non stop every day through their working life. I’ve got every intention of drawing my full pensions! [emoji57]
Sent from the ether.
Evil8Beezle:
Carryfast:
Evil8Beezle:
I’m thinking of starting a Carryfast fan club, anyone interested?I agree with Muckles, and think CF has shot himself in the foot many a time and just can’t see it. Experience is important, but so is being a team player and having a ‘can do’ attitude that doesn’t involve getting the hump, seeking approval, and needing a moan. Basically a boss wants an employee that they know will be getting on with the work, and when there is a problem, a real problem, they will get told by that employee. i.e. Fire them off on a task and forget them! Do you think you fit that mold CF?
You seem to be contradicting yourself in that the self sufficient own initiative type job ( IE international freight work ) ( which I was looking for ) type of job is the total anti thesis of the team player uk heavy haulage/factory removals type job which I wasn’t.The issue being the accessibility of either to new entrants into those sectors.While ironically,in my case,there ‘might’,possibly have been slightly more chance of getting into the latter through knowing someone working at Adams in the day and that being slightly closer to the type of work I was doing as a council driver,than the former.In which case no I was happier doing night trunking in that regard with no issues concerning any so called lack of a ‘can do’ attitude or being any more of a moaner than those who I worked with.
None of which changes my point of new drivers being rightly put off by the dodgy career entry and progression structure within the industry.Much of which arguably being the result of ES’s type of closed minded attitudes to inexperienced drivers.
By being a team player, I’m talking about working for/in the best interests of the company, not in the best interests of CF, which I think is the only concept you understand… I’m not on about direct contact with others, that’s your assumption. I’m on about the fact that boss probably thought you would be on the phone all the time moaning, reporting problems, and seeing issues that don’t really exist. And then there is the time you do return to base and actually meet the other guys on the firm… It’s like this CF, if you’re not being boring, you’re whining, and when you’re not whining, you’re being…
Well said Evil8Beezle, which is why many firms want to get to know you first, on something that you have experience off, see the measure of the man.
CF if you believe that International work don’t involve team work then you really would have got of to a bad start, ask the experienced continental blokes on here, whom worked for large international firms, how many times they had short notice change of jobs, as in a phone call, “if we swap your job can you get to abc European city by asap”, and they expect you then to phone the other driver and arrange the change over, and to then confirm once change over complete and enroute. What they don’t want to here is, “No I’m catching the ferry back to the UK to be home this weekend”.
Just thought of this, I know what used to really wind Guys up, arriving at port to ship back to UK, to find the trailer has been booked Unaccompanied, then when they ring in to find out WTF is going on, get told, “oh we forgot to say, there’s a trailer for Venlo(or any other town) waiting, can you shoot it up there” knowing that this would cause the driver to be weekended. Our drive through lads used to be spitting mad some times with that caper. But when push comes to shove you are there its got to be done 
Evil8Beezle:
I’m thinking of starting a Carryfast fan club, anyone interested?
Where’s the 1st meet up,
in a telephone box!!![emoji28]
Sent from my SM-J500FN using Tapatalk
Not wishing to stir the pot but perhaps its an evolution thing, carryfasts generation with its union/strike and ‘one out all out’ mentality gave them ideas above their station and instead of fighting for their own rights they spent more time fighting for other peoples.
Blinded by the us and them mantra that almost bought this country to its knees before Maggie shock things up.
Yes we still have ‘us and them’ today, but lines are blurred a lot more than they where.
Now of course theres thousands of historical references to dispute this idea but im dealing with a mindset here, a mindset of spitting the dummy out if things dont go your way, setbacks and knockbacks didnt make the worker of yesteryear stronger to overcome them all they did was weaken them to the point of submission. Blaming others for their lot in life.
Its not carryfasts or his ilks fault, its all they knew, brainwashed into a belief they where stronger as a collective when in the end the leaders of this collective would drop their ■■■■■■■ and collapse with a bit of bribery.
Course corrupt union and union officials is a debate for another time but when the workers of the day pinned their flag to a wobbly flagpost its no wonder they are so bitter, they only have themselves to blame.
Now the worker of today fights their own battles, yes they know large corporations are so wrapped up in their own BS and layers upon layers of middlemanagement mean that those at the top never see the full picture.
They are better prepared to fight their own battles, not weighed down by union subs, a need to be in a collective or brainwashed by shop steward bollox.
Now Albion strikes me as that diamond in the rough an employer who treats the workers well, perhaps to well but one things for sure when a vacancy comes up there will be no shortage of CV’s sent her way. Not me unfortunately as a condition of my release into the wild was that I have to give the rozzers 24hours notice if im going to be double manning.
So the good companies will never see a driver shortage where new passes and those willing to learn and be shaped into an asset are just as attractive as someone with experience rather than risk someone from yesteryear who will become a bloody liability if they dont get their own way.
Employing staff is not just about how good they will do the job its also how they will mix with the staff already there.
Big Truck:
Where’s the 1st meet up,
in a telephone box!!!
Looks like someone was bit eager for it to start
Evil8Beezle:
Carryfast:
Evil8Beezle:
I’m thinking of starting a Carryfast fan club, anyone interested?I agree with Muckles, and think CF has shot himself in the foot many a time and just can’t see it. Experience is important, but so is being a team player and having a ‘can do’ attitude that doesn’t involve getting the hump, seeking approval, and needing a moan. Basically a boss wants an employee that they know will be getting on with the work, and when there is a problem, a real problem, they will get told by that employee. i.e. Fire them off on a task and forget them! Do you think you fit that mold CF?
You seem to be contradicting yourself in that the self sufficient own initiative type job ( IE international freight work ) ( which I was looking for ) type of job is the total anti thesis of the team player uk heavy haulage/factory removals type job which I wasn’t.The issue being the accessibility of either to new entrants into those sectors.While ironically,in my case,there ‘might’,possibly have been slightly more chance of getting into the latter through knowing someone working at Adams in the day and that being slightly closer to the type of work I was doing as a council driver,than the former.In which case no I was happier doing night trunking in that regard with no issues concerning any so called lack of a ‘can do’ attitude or being any more of a moaner than those who I worked with.
None of which changes my point of new drivers being rightly put off by the dodgy career entry and progression structure within the industry.Much of which arguably being the result of ES’s type of closed minded attitudes to inexperienced drivers.
By being a team player, I’m talking about working for/in the best interests of the company, not in the best interests of CF, which I think is the only concept you understand… I’m not on about direct contact with others, that’s your assumption. I’m on about the fact that boss probably thought you would be on the phone all the time moaning, reporting problems, and seeing issues that don’t really exist. And then there is the time you do return to base and actually meet the other guys on the firm… It’s like this CF, if you’re not being boring, you’re whining, and when you’re not whining, you’re being…
In which case how does that utter pile of bs explain the fact that none of those issues existed in any of the sectors I actually did work in.Having said that there are numerous examples of the ‘interests’ of the employee no longer matching those of the employer.That’s the definition of a job move for better money or climbing the ladder to better work.The issue in this case being the arbitrary face fits elitist nature of the career progression structure in the industry regarding the latter.
On that note I’d imagine calling for the use of LHV’s and trucks being able to use red diesel isn’t exactly contrary to the interests of many employers.While there’s a lot more chance of my ideas,regarding that and career entry and progression issues within the industry,helping the situation of an ageing workforce not being replaced by an enthusiastic new intake,than ES’s closed minded bs. 
mike68:
There is no shortage, no shortage of licence holders anyway.The shortage is of decent drivers who do the work correctly bring the kit back in one piece and don’t constantly whinge when they don’t get their own way.
There is also a great shortage of employers who offer decent terms and conditions, expecting 60 hours a week no paid sick leave a basic holiday pay, why would any sane person be away from their family all week for £450.
From a recent stint in the office I can say that around 80-85% of the drivers I came into contact with were bone idle incompetent and work shy, out of 200 drivers I would struggle to give the names of 20 I would employ.
Got to agree with this post.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
eddie snax:
Well said Evil8Beezle, which is why many firms want to get to know you first, on something that you have experience off, see the measure of the man.CF if you believe that International work don’t involve team work then you really would have got of to a bad start, ask the experienced continental blokes on here, whom worked for large international firms, how many times they had short notice change of jobs, as in a phone call, “if we swap your job can you get to abc European city by asap”, and they expect you then to phone the other driver and arrange the change over, and to then confirm once change over complete and enroute. What they don’t want to here is, “No I’m catching the ferry back to the UK to be home this weekend”.
Just thought of this, I know what used to really wind Guys up, arriving at port to ship back to UK, to find the trailer has been booked Unaccompanied, then when they ring in to find out WTF is going on, get told, “oh we forgot to say, there’s a trailer for Venlo(or any other town) waiting, can you shoot it up there” knowing that this would cause the driver to be weekended. Our drive through lads used to be spitting mad some times with that caper. But when push comes to shove you are there its got to be done
How are you going to ‘get the measure’ of anyone if you’ve refused to employ them to start with on the basis that they won’t be any good before you’ve even given them the chance so you can find out.
While the examples you’ve described aren’t exactly a great advert for the experienced drivers only formula. IE what type of so called international driver is going to give a zb about inevitably getting weekended at some point for some reason.By their logic ( and EB’s total bs ) if our Scotch trunk was running late I’d have obviously said zb it I’m turning round and going home.Rather than use my own initiative to arrange a different changeover point with the Scotch driver,( sometimes a lot ) further up the road,using the truck phones.Ironically at which point both the union and the guvnor probably wouldn’t have moaned about it even if I had decided to do the former.
While as I’ve said at best your ideas just create the incentive for inexperienced drivers to just bs their way into the job as in Switch’s stated case.Which just results in the situation of honest drivers with more time spent at the lower levels of the job being unfairly sidelined.Because those with your ideas would prefer to believe the lies of those trying to circumvent your own bs recruitment rules.
Dipper_Dave:
Not wishing to stir the pot but perhaps its an evolution thing, carryfasts generation with its union/strike and ‘one out all out’ mentality gave them ideas above their station and instead of fighting for their own rights they spent more time fighting for other peoples.
Blinded by the us and them mantra that almost bought this country to its knees before Maggie shock things up.
Yes we still have ‘us and them’ today, but lines are blurred a lot more than they where.Now of course theres thousands of historical references to dispute this idea but im dealing with a mindset here, a mindset of spitting the dummy out if things dont go your way, setbacks and knockbacks didnt make the worker of yesteryear stronger to overcome them all they did was weaken them to the point of submission. Blaming others for their lot in life.
Its not carryfasts or his ilks fault, its all they knew, brainwashed into a belief they where stronger as a collective when in the end the leaders of this collective would drop their ■■■■■■■ and collapse with a bit of bribery.Course corrupt union and union officials is a debate for another time but when the workers of the day pinned their flag to a wobbly flagpost its no wonder they are so bitter, they only have themselves to blame.
Now the worker of today fights their own battles, yes they know large corporations are so wrapped up in their own BS and layers upon layers of middlemanagement mean that those at the top never see the full picture.
They are better prepared to fight their own battles, not weighed down by union subs, a need to be in a collective or brainwashed by shop steward bollox.Now Albion strikes me as that diamond in the rough an employer who treats the workers well, perhaps to well but one things for sure when a vacancy comes up there will be no shortage of CV’s sent her way. Not me unfortunately as a condition of my release into the wild was that I have to give the rozzers 24hours notice if im going to be double manning.
So the good companies will never see a driver shortage where new passes and those willing to learn and be shaped into an asset are just as attractive as someone with experience rather than risk someone from yesteryear who will become a bloody liability if they dont get their own way.
Employing staff is not just about how good they will do the job its also how they will mix with the staff already there.
Ironically according to Harry all that seems to have turned out well then.IE it’s so much better to have weak unions and race to the bottom terms and conditions. 
As opposed to a strong union and a race to the poverty/picket line…