alte hase:
OK relax the regulations, then reduce taxation, in all forms, then what?, the industry’s players would use this scenario as yet another oppurtunity to further ■■■■■ rates in order to win ‘that’ contract, road transport faces competition from road transport, I haven’t seen a train delivering to a supermarket or shopping centre, well not yet.
Lower fuel costs and less regulation makes road transport more attractive thereby increasing demand and investment.On that note you won’t produce the required demand by viewing the industry as just a supermarket delivery service.Assuming rail freight has nothing to fear in that regard then it obviously won’t have any objections to LHV’s and the use of red diesel.While strong unions would stop the cutting of wage rates being used as part of the tendering process by setting a ring fenced industry standard.Although competitive pressures obviously decrease in a high demand environment anyway.
damoq:
Why are train drivers wages so high anyway? Is it something they have earned through union power, or is it that the wage just reflects the skill involved in driving one? I really am curious cos I wouldn’t think train driving is that much harder than truck driving. They don’t have to do the dreaded blind side reverse, sit in RDC waiting rooms or put up with other numpties on the road.[emoji3]
My mate’s a train driver and the reason their wages are so high is simple: they are expensive to replace. He had to study for eighteen months just to get behind the controls, then he could start learning routes. Each route has to be studied for individually as due to the stopping distances by the time he sees a station he’s already overshot it. If he doesn’t drive a route for six months he’s no longer ALLOWED to drive it.
He’d cost a fortune to replace; they pay him a lot of money so he doesn’t leave - and some train companies do try to circumvent the training time by paying more for already-qualified drivers.
None of this will stop me from telling him that he’s not worth it as he doesn’t even steer! [emoji38]
Could you imagine telling your gaffer you couldn’t go do a delivery to London cos its been over 6 months since you’d been there![emoji3] [emoji3]
Doesn’t take us18 months to figure out the controls in a truck. Trains look more basic than an old ERF from the drivers seat too. How hard can it be? Doesn’t even have a steering wheel FFS.[emoji3]
And why don’t they put signs at the side of the track that tells them how far away the next station is. That way they can start slowing down a bit, then have like slip road yard markers when they get real close instead of studying a route for months on end.
This is the whole point, train drivers had the nous to keep their job special, requiring long trained and gained knowledge so not every tom ■■■■ and igor could do it for £7 an hour.
Compare with lorry drivers, who at one time did need some skill nous and strength to do their jobs…waaaa they cried i want an automatic lorry cos i can’t manage a proper gearbox and i don’t want to touch the load in case i break a finger nail or ladder me stockings and those nasty ropes and sheets are ruining my dainty little handie pandies…and we got exactly what they wanted, job dumbed down to lowest common denominator level that any fool can do, in lorries that look pretty and easy as a car to drive warm/cool and comfortable, hence oversubscribed industry and a week’s course with a test pass makes you an instant professional lorry driver, and it does, cos what exactly does the average driver do apart from steer where the little talking toy map tells them to?..well done lads nice home goal that.
Juddian:
This is the whole point, train drivers had the nous to keep their job special, requiring long trained and gained knowledge so not every tom ■■■■ and igor could do it for £7 an hour.
Compare with lorry drivers, who at one time did need some skill nous and strength to do their jobs…waaaa they cried i want an automatic lorry cos i can’t manage a proper gearbox and i don’t want to touch the load in case i break a finger nail or ladder me stockings and those nasty ropes and sheets are ruining my dainty little handie pandies…and we got exactly what they wanted, job dumbed down to lowest common denominator level that any fool can do, in lorries that look pretty and easy as a car to drive warm/cool and comfortable, hence oversubscribed industry and a week’s course with a test pass makes you an instant professional lorry driver, and it does, cos what exactly does the average driver do apart from steer where the little talking toy map tells them to?..well done lads nice home goal that.
Juddian:
This is the whole point, train drivers had the nous to keep their job special, requiring long trained and gained knowledge so not every tom ■■■■ and igor could do it for £7 an hour.
Compare with lorry drivers, who at one time did need some skill nous and strength to do their jobs…waaaa they cried i want an automatic lorry cos i can’t manage a proper gearbox and i don’t want to touch the load in case i break a finger nail or ladder me stockings and those nasty ropes and sheets are ruining my dainty little handie pandies…and we got exactly what they wanted, job dumbed down to lowest common denominator level that any fool can do, in lorries that look pretty and easy as a car to drive warm/cool and comfortable, hence oversubscribed industry and a week’s course with a test pass makes you an instant professional lorry driver, and it does, cos what exactly does the average driver do apart from steer where the little talking toy map tells them to?..well done lads nice home goal that.
Indeed young man , a puzzle indeed, how do you persuade working people to stop shooting themselves in the foot…or do you just let them get on with it and make sure you yourself have side stepped the issue by moving onto the type of work that still requires, er, thought, and pays better?
Juddian:
Indeed young man , a puzzle indeed, how do you persuade working people to stop shooting themselves in the foot…or do you just let them get on with it and make sure you yourself have side stepped the issue by moving onto the type of work that still requires, er, thought, and pays better?
As checkerfloor would say; you can’t educate cabbage!!!
So side stepping is the only option, and letting the moaning morons continue to wonder why they can’t break into the better jobs and pay.
You can’t save me all mate…
So just relax, sit back, drink your coco, read your paper, and take off your wife’s high heels!
Juddian:
Indeed young man , a puzzle indeed, how do you persuade working people to stop shooting themselves in the foot…or do you just let them get on with it and make sure you yourself have side stepped the issue by moving onto the type of work that still requires, er, thought, and pays better?
A train driver isn’t there just to make the train move, he has to know exactly where he is all the time down to a couple of hundred yards or less in relation to signals,stations, level crossings etc - in the dark and in the fog. He has to know how to follow the procedure to identify and hopefully overcome all sorts of technical issues that may occur with his train… he won’t be posting on an internet forum asking how to change a light bulb…and more than anything else he is there for when things go wrong.
When there are fewer instances of multiple lorries running up the back of one another or falling over, or bashing into bridges, then just maybe lorry drivers might have a smidgeon of whisper of a chance of a possibility of even getting a hearing of their bleating about pay differentials.
The-Snowman:
How the hell did we go from an hgv drivers shortage to the difference between lorry drivers and train drivers?
Cos some were enviously moaning about how well the train drivers are doing, presumably under the impression that deskilling our sector and avoiding unions like the plague was a good way to negotiate their worthy pay rise.
The-Snowman:
How the hell did we go from an hgv drivers shortage to the difference between lorry drivers and train drivers?
Cos some were enviously moaning about how well the train drivers are doing, presumably under the impression that deskilling our sector and avoiding unions like the plague was a good way to negotiate their worthy pay rise.
Can’t help but feel although the train driving bubble will burst in the next few decades, if not sooner.
Given your just on rails following set tracks, trains with auto-pilot have got to be on the near horizon and with that, the deskilling will begin. Unions won’t be able to stave off technological advancements forever. The London Tubes will be first.
The-Snowman:
How the hell did we go from an hgv drivers shortage to the difference between lorry drivers and train drivers?
Cos some were enviously moaning about how well the train drivers are doing, presumably under the impression that deskilling our sector and avoiding unions like the plague was a good way to negotiate their worthy pay rise.
Can’t help but feel although the train driving bubble will burst in the next few decades, if not sooner.
Given your just on rails following set tracks, trains with auto-pilot have got to be on the near horizon and with that, the deskilling will begin. Unions won’t be able to stave off technological advancements forever. The London Tubes will be first.
Yes, i agree, their time will come too eventually, but they’ve had a bloody good crack of the whip for a long time and well done them…one good thing they do have going for them is the increase in (or rather the reported increases in perceived terrorist threats) terrorism, an automatic train could be taken over by someone clever enough to hack the control system, maybe the real live person has a role to play for a long time yet.
It’s going to be interesting to see what happens when those in power have eventually automated or dumbed down every single blue collar job…have they worked out yet that unless people have some real money to spend, and we make something to sell, there won’t be an economy worth diddly squat.
A nation of dole dependents isn’t going to fund the next PM’s middle east or african war.
cav551:
When there are fewer instances of multiple lorries running up the back of one another or falling over, or bashing into bridges, then just maybe lorry drivers might have a smidgeon of whisper of a chance of a possibility of even getting a hearing of their bleating about pay differentials.
To be fair truck drivers don’t have the luxury of running on rails which guarantee no chance of hitting a bridge.Or running under conditions which say if anyone or anything gets in their way under green light conditions then the resulting collision is guaranteed not to be their fault.Or systems like ATP or TPWS to protect them.
Juddian:
It’s going to be interesting to see what happens when those in power have eventually automated or dumbed down every single blue collar job…have they worked out yet that unless people have some real money to spend, and we make something to sell, there won’t be an economy worth diddly squat.
A nation of dole dependents isn’t going to fund the next PM’s middle east or african war.
As I’ve said elsewhere robots aren’t tax payers or consumers of the products and services they provide.
Nor are redundant workers.At least without some massive changes to unemployment/retirement benefits and redundancy terms.Paid for out of a shift in indirect and direct taxation from people to corporations.
boredwivdrivin:
War74 pages back says his T&C’s include a company car .
I agree thats a T&C worth having . would probs keep me from swapping jobs .
BTW this is another thread thats been ruined by weirdos posting excessive quotations .
And worse people posting excessive quotations out of context .
This makes it impossible to follow , if like me u access t’internet via phone .
Please improve
I don’t know any lorry driver’s with a company car. In fact, it’s almost unheard of. Unless you’re talking about one of them Stobart relief driver’s, who are given a mini van to cover shifts all over the country.
As a company car is taxable - if you have a £20grand motor laid on by the firm - don’t you end up paying at least £4000kpa tax on it - assuming you’re only paying basic rate tax, and your basic pay has already used up the “tax free” code you have…?
Surely it will never cost £80 a week of your own money to run an old banger…
Company cars ‘as a perk’ therefore, - I suggest are no such thing anymore.
Winseer:
As a company car is taxable - if you have a £20grand motor laid on by the firm - don’t you end up paying at least £4000kpa tax on it - assuming you’re only paying basic rate tax, and your basic pay has already used up the “tax free” code you have…?
Surely it will never cost £80 a week of your own money to run an old banger…
Company cars ‘as a perk’ therefore, - I suggest are no such thing anymore.
I had company car 2 year ago I tried a TM job in an office.
Done my head in and wasn’t worth the money and salary.
Anyways my tax code changed so I lost 2 or 3 grand a year on my free allowance.
Most companies give you the choice of a car or just say £400 or 500 a month allowance but the car most be no more than 3 years old.
That’s what I’m saying the only really time you will have a great freebie is if the boss lets u run around in his company van or car for free without declaring it as part of your salary.
, a puzzle indeed, how do you persuade working people to stop shooting themselves in the foot…or do you just let them get on with it and make sure you yourself have side stepped the issue by moving onto the type of work that still requires, er, thought, and pays better?