Looking at the bigger picture, I truly don’t believe the driver shortage is going to resolve itself anytime in the near future. All very well offering a few extra quid now, but how are you going to attract new people to an industry that has been ‘going down the pan’ for years, or indeed get the people who have left the industry to ever return?
LIBERTY_GUY:
Looking at the bigger picture, I truly don’t believe the driver shortage is going to resolve itself anytime in the near future. All very well offering a few extra quid now, but how are you going to attract new people to an industry that has been ‘going down the pan’ for years, or indeed get the people who have left the industry to ever return?
it’s pretty simple
I have a class 1 and CPC and tacho in date. I operate cranes just now. I drive trucks now and then to help out.
If the truck rates overtake cranes and the same overtime.
If the rates of truck driving went up to 15 or 16 pound a hour and decent overtime rates x1.5 after 8 and a sat. x2 after 12 and a sunday
I would be back in a truck full time.
If it stays at 12 pound a hour straight through 70 hours a week with 1 or 2 pound extra for overtime i will stay on cranes.
A telehandler driver and digger drivers are on 18 to 20 pound a hour plus overtime rates.
Every other trade is on well over 200 a day now 8 till 4.
Themoocher:
Mate you need to put ur crack pipe down
The only time what your saying has worked is the past 6 months.
Before that if you wernt happy you would have been told to get on your bike and I will get someone else to do the job.
If 30 drivers work for a haulage company and are one mouth and agree to something it’s alot more power than one winging gob [zb] wanting a pay rise. like I says the only time in the past 20 years it would work is now.
Why do you think they got rid of unions in pretty much every workforce?
when it’s done properly they have to much power and the capitalist don’t like the workforce having a say.
Speak for yourself? If you’re a useless driver who moans all the time and can’t drive for [zb] without doing damage, lets them down by blobbing, then quite rightly you’ll get shown the door when you ask for a rise. But if you’re good at what you do, look after the equipment, get them out of the mire when they [zb] up and do what you can to help out your suppliers/customers when they [zb] up, it gets noticed by management and you are in a strong position to negotiate an increase in pay because of what you can bring to the table. Done it several times with varying degrees of success. Most successful are own account places followed by agencies (when ltd co). Usually goes through a ‘denial’ phase first as they know most drivers are all talk and no trousers, but when the resignation note and covering letter with the reasons you’re leaving lands on their desk, it tends to make them realise that they’re going to be knackered without you, no chance of sourcing and training a replacement within the notice period, so it’s easier for them to capitulate and just give you what you want to stay. At one place I was on £3/hr more than another driver for doing the same job.
That’s the joy of a capitalist market economy. YOU decide what you’re worth based on your skillset, experience and whatever else you can offer/bring to the table. If companies don’t agree with your “valuation” then you part ways and find work elsewhere. You don’t stay there for 40 years until retirement ■■■■■■■■ and moaning about pay, conditions, hours, treatment 
. It’s pretty simple stuff but most drivers are scared to death of management and couldn’t negotiate their way out of a wet paper bag, hence why they all need someone with actual balls to say “no” for them and be fleeced out of £15/month in the process. Unions only exist because drivers are largely a bunch of pathetic wimps who don’t have the balls to stand up for themselves.
Themoocher:
A telehandler driver and digger drivers are on 18 to 20 pound a hour plus overtime rates.
Every other trade is on well over 200 a day now 8 till 4.
I see lots of ‘inside jobs’ that surpass what some firms are trying to pay HGV drivers. Am still seeing lots of HGV jobs paying less than £10 for class two and less than £11 for class one.
Thing is, I can’t think of any other trade that has to undertake 35 hours of training every five years or to be more precise ‘attendance’, get fined for even the smallest infringement that is often out their control, nor set out every morning, wondering if a certain government agency is going to see them as a ‘cash cow’. Most drivers aren’t vehicle technicians and can still get fined for vehicle faults beyond their knowledge. Hardly an attractive proposition…
DCPCFML:
Speak for yourself? If you’re a useless driver who moans all the time and can’t drive for [zb] without doing damage, lets them down by blobbing, then quite rightly you’ll get shown the door when you ask for a rise. But if you’re good at what you do, look after the equipment, get them out of the mire when they [zb] up and do what you can to help out your suppliers/customers when they [zb] up, it gets noticed by management and you are in a strong position to negotiate an increase in pay because of what you can bring to the table.
Ha ha ha I am sure you are on awind up here mate. You keep going and getting noticed by management. No wonder you have big balls mate, you must get kicked in them ten times a day.
Yorkshire Tramper:
DCPCFML:
Speak for yourself? If you’re a useless driver who moans all the time and can’t drive for [zb] without doing damage, lets them down by blobbing, then quite rightly you’ll get shown the door when you ask for a rise. But if you’re good at what you do, look after the equipment, get them out of the mire when they [zb] up and do what you can to help out your suppliers/customers when they [zb] up, it gets noticed by management and you are in a strong position to negotiate an increase in pay because of what you can bring to the table.Ha ha ha I am sure you are on awind up here mate. You keep going and getting noticed by management. No wonder you have big balls mate, you must get kicked in them ten times a day.
No it’s called using your brain - something you wouldn’t have any experience of because you don’t have one. That’s why you run bent because the office has told you the load must get there and you don’t have the balls to say no. Stereotypical “yes” man driver.
DCPCFML:
No it’s called using your brain - something you wouldn’t have any experience of because you don’t have one. That’s why you run bent because the office has told you the load must get there and you don’t have the balls to say no. Stereotypical “yes” man driver.
Yes you are absolutely right, now you run off and get collecting those brownie points mate. In a few more years you might have enough to buy yourself something nice.
DCPCFML:
Themoocher:
Mate you need to put ur crack pipe down
The only time what your saying has worked is the past 6 months.
Before that if you wernt happy you would have been told to get on your bike and I will get someone else to do the job.
If 30 drivers work for a haulage company and are one mouth and agree to something it’s alot more power than one winging gob [zb] wanting a pay rise. like I says the only time in the past 20 years it would work is now.
Why do you think they got rid of unions in pretty much every workforce?
when it’s done properly they have to much power and the capitalist don’t like the workforce having a say.Speak for yourself? If you’re a useless driver who moans all the time and can’t drive for [zb] without doing damage, lets them down by blobbing, then quite rightly you’ll get shown the door when you ask for a rise. But if you’re good at what you do, look after the equipment, get them out of the mire when they [zb] up and do what you can to help out your suppliers/customers when they [zb] up, it gets noticed by management and you are in a strong position to negotiate an increase in pay because of what you can bring to the table. Done it several times with varying degrees of success. Most successful are own account places followed by agencies (when ltd co). Usually goes through a ‘denial’ phase first as they know most drivers are all talk and no trousers, but when the resignation note and covering letter with the reasons you’re leaving lands on their desk, it tends to make them realise that they’re going to be knackered without you, no chance of sourcing and training a replacement within the notice period, so it’s easier for them to capitulate and just give you what you want to stay. At one place I was on £3/hr more than another driver for doing the same job.
That’s the joy of a capitalist market economy. YOU decide what you’re worth based on your skillset, experience and whatever else you can offer/bring to the table. If companies don’t agree with your “valuation” then you part ways and find work elsewhere. You don’t stay there for 40 years until retirement ■■■■■■■■ and moaning about pay, conditions, hours, treatment
I don’t think the toss you have just written matters to be honest.
If I don’t like something about the company I work for or dont like the way im getting paid I leave. I don’t stay at a company for 30 years moaning about Same ■■■■■ everyday. But I don’t jump aboit on agency work either as I think for the past 20 years you get messed around to much with agency and it’s not guaranteed money. No holiday pay and messing around as self employed cooking your books and getting massive tax bills 5 years later isn’t my cup of tea.
I have yet to work anywere or experience anyone on £3 a hour pay difference doing the same job and on the books at a company. only time I have seen it is if the driver earning more money has more tickets or can drive or operate more machines. Not the exact same tickets and experience and earning £3 more or a loyalty type bonus where ex driver has worked here ex amount years so we pay him extra couple quid a week every year the drivers has worked here.
Don’t you get if the market is flooded with cheap labour that will work for £9 a hour why would you pay a driver £16 per hour and Time n half and double for over time.
It’s nothing to do with how much ■■■■ you ■■■■. All your customer wants is you to turn up on time for a delivery and not smash the site up. There not intrested in anything else.
LIBERTY_GUY:
Themoocher:
A telehandler driver and digger drivers are on 18 to 20 pound a hour plus overtime rates.
Every other trade is on well over 200 a day now 8 till 4.I see lots of ‘inside jobs’ that surpass what some firms are trying to pay HGV drivers. Am still seeing lots of HGV jobs paying less than £10 for class two and less than £11 for class one.
Thing is, I can’t think of any other trade that has to undertake 35 hours of training every five years or to be more precise ‘attendance’, get fined for even the smallest infringement that is often out their control, nor set out every morning, wondering if a certain government agency is going to see them as a ‘cash cow’. Most drivers aren’t vehicle technicians and can still get fined for vehicle faults beyond their knowledge. Hardly an attractive proposition…
This is what I’m saying mate.
If truck drivers were getting paid 18 pound a hour and on good terms and conditions and overtime rates. alot of people working on sites would think yeah I might give that a go.
Seems a steady number on decent pay.
But as soon as someone asks a truck driver aboit wages and terms they will think ■■■■ that ain’t worth the hassle I earn more and less hassle here. doing less hours and getting paid more.
It’s not attractive to anyone anymore.
adam277:
The issue is the average age of truck drivers which must be like 50+
A lot of 50+ people employed have kind of moved past the manual labour phase of their life. Its why most warehouse employees doing the grunt work are in their 20/30s. Most builders the grunt work is done by the younger guys.Expecting a 50+ year old driver who spends most of his time sitting on his bum is asking for a lot.
No doubt many drivers are capable of emptying a trailer by themselves but when there is easier work out there why bother?
Two more things besides age (and perhaps the implication of poorer physical health) are that you don’t tend to become a driver these days if you prefer physical activity, and because driving is a sedentary job most drivers don’t have or maintain the necessary fitness for any serious physical work.
The ultimate solution for the industry is to invest in proper docks at all premises that allow a full load of goods to be discharged rapidly and with little or no physical effort. It’s yet another example of how an over-supply of drivers has allowed the industry to avoid capital investment and reduce driver productivity.
Themoocher:
Rjan:
JeffA:
Alan law couldnt exist today - it like saying what we need is another arthur scargill - the balance of power today is so one sided a 70s union guy couldnt even comprehend it.The difference in the 70s is that you still had a majority of fellas around who’d fought the war, concerned themselves with politics, and stood together. They threw up such figures like Scargill and Law, and many more, to fight for their interests, instead of opting for slow decline under “moderates”.
When Scargill took the miners out on strike for a year to defend their industry from total closure and offshoring, he probably expected something similar to the 70s when the government fell.
Instead, by the 80s, not even the miners stood together. Too many thought their pits would be safe. In the end, they all hanged separately in the years following, as did the entire trade union movement.
Now their grandkids spend tens of thousands on an education then work making sandwiches and serving coffee for minimum wage.
All my family were miners.
The big difference between miners and truck drivers.
Truck drivers have alot more power if they stood together.
Maybe 3 or 4 days on strike would bring the country to it’s knees in every possible way.
The effect of the Thatcher reforms and the balkanisation of legal employers means that most strikes nowadays would have to be done illegally to be effective and backed by the threat of serious violence, as was the case in the 19th century.
The vast majority of people today are not even nominally members of unions, even informal ones oriented around a single site or single employer.
I predict that we’re quite some way off from the level of solidarity and allegiance that union activities had up to the 1970s. Workers were solid enough in that era that governments, never mind employers, feared the consequences of upsetting the workers who actually keep the country running.
DCPCFML:
Yorkshire Tramper:
DCPCFML:
Nope. The industry is too fragmented and drivers only care about themselves. Just give up all this talk of strikes and unions. It’s never going to happen. Ever.Not amongst drivers such as yourself it won’t so you are quite right there. As a union member I take advantage of better rates, terms and conditions and a whole host of other benifits. Non union members take advantage of reaping the rewards that union members pay and stand for. It is quite simple really, you only see the rates as they are for you, if it wasn’t for the union members you would be working for £5 p/h if unions did not exist at all.
Put down the union pipe and don’t talk crap please
Is it possible that you’ve adjusted your “liking” to what has actually been on offer?
Also the bosses may not always attack frontally. What redundancy protection do you have? What pension terms are you being offered? What are your kids being offered?
It might look like you’re coining it in, until your kids are stuck at home in their mid 20s spending a fortune on education then getting bum pay, and then you retire on a pittance that won’t pay your rent, and you’ve got no grandkids because your kids can’t afford a family on wages. That’s not a living, that’s dying.
This might not all apply to you, but it’s true statistically, and simply voting with your feet (and not doing anything else to remedy the situation) you’ll just wear your soles out eventually.
I’m not saying unions solve every problem. You can even get unions captured by the right-wing, where they are basically in alliance with the bosses (even if they say otherwise), especially if that reflects the corrupt and unsolidaristic mentalities of the members who are far from socialists.
But you’ll never win alone. They only have to get lucky once to reduce you to misery. You have to get lucky every time to stay ahead of their attacks.
Rjan:
I’m not saying unions solve every problem. You can even get unions captured by the right-wing, where they are basically in alliance with the bosses (even if they say otherwise), especially if that reflects the corrupt and unsolidaristic mentalities of the members who are far from socialists.But you’ll never win alone. They only have to get lucky once to reduce you to misery. You have to get lucky every time to stay ahead of their attacks.
Quite agree with what you have written here. It is not just a right wing problem, you have to vote in the correct shop steward to voice the members votes or it can actually be the shop steward that can easily be in bed with the bosses. A good shop steward and a strong alliance amongst its members are the best defence against both encounters.
Themoocher:
I don’t think the toss you have just written matters to be honest.
If I don’t like something about the company I work for or dont like the way im getting paid I leave. I don’t stay at a company for 30 years moaning about Same [zb] everyday.
So why are you banging on about unions, strikes and “sticking together” in every post then? If you have all the answers then get on with it and stop worrying about what everyone else is doing.
Themoocher:
But I don’t jump aboit on agency work either as I think for the past 20 years you get messed around to much with agency and it’s not guaranteed money. No holiday pay and messing around as self employed cooking your books and getting massive tax bills 5 years later isn’t my cup of tea.
What a load of ■■■■■■■■. That’s the typical permie excuses you hear day in day out, jealous of the agency guys making bank but don’t have the balls to go and do it themselves. Plenty of guys on here who have done full time agency for over a decade, fully legit and never out of work. That’s because they know how the game works and it’s not hard to get yourself to the top of the pecking order when the majority of the competition doesn’t even bother turning up for the assignment.
Themoocher:
I have yet to work anywere or experience anyone on £3 a hour pay difference doing the same job and on the books at a company. only time I have seen it is if the driver earning more money has more tickets or can drive or operate more machines. Not the exact same tickets and experience and earning £3 more or a loyalty type bonus where ex driver has worked here ex amount years so we pay him extra couple quid a week every year the drivers has worked here.
So just because you’ve never seen it means that it doesn’t happen? OK…
Themoocher:
Don’t you get if the market is flooded with cheap labour that will work for £9 a hour why would you pay a driver £16 per hour and Time n half and double for over time.
It’s nothing to do with how much ■■■■ you ■■■■. All your customer wants is you to turn up on time for a delivery and not smash the site up. There not intrested in anything else.
I’m not sure what your point is? Why are you telling me this when I have no issues securing work I enjoy doing for a rate I’m happy with? It’s you that’s going on about striking, unions etc so presumably contrary to your claims above, you’re unhappy with your lot.
Sounds to me like you’ve only worked for logistics.com where you’re just a number and not required to think for yourself. I, on the other hand, have worked for small companies where going above and beyond your job description to help out the supplier can be the difference between keeping them or losing them when the contract is up for renewal. It’s not “sucking ■■■■” as you bluntly put it, merely using one’s brain and looking at the bigger picture. If you lose your suppliers then a) jobs become at risk and b) profits are reduced which means the chances of pay rises are slim.
The problem most drivers have is staring right back at them in the mirror : attitude. Funny how it’s always the neanderthal knuckle-draggers that can’t string a sentence together without every other word being profanity, who are the ones complaining about the treatment they get at customer premises. But I’m sure there’s no connection and it’s just pure coincidence…
DCPCFML:
The problem most drivers have is staring right back at them in the mirror : attitude. Funny how it’s always the neanderthal knuckle-draggers that can’t string a sentence together without every other word being profanity, who are the ones complaining about the treatment they get at customer premises. But I’m sure there’s no connection and it’s just pure coincidence…
Mate you can kick and scream till you are blue in the face and harp on about how pleasing the management will get you places to any union member. They will just smile and tell you to crack on. Only a union member can see the advantages and know that their T&Cs are going to be better than your average non union member (Not all) but a lot. So if you believe that a job is just about money and bending over for the management then you have a lot to learn. On that point though, usually and obviously not in all cases but a union members rates will also be better. It is the exact opposit of what you are actually saying about the neanderthal knuckle-draggers that are union members. It is laughable what you are trying to preach.
Yorkshire Tramper:
DCPCFML:
The problem most drivers have is staring right back at them in the mirror : attitude. Funny how it’s always the neanderthal knuckle-draggers that can’t string a sentence together without every other word being profanity, who are the ones complaining about the treatment they get at customer premises. But I’m sure there’s no connection and it’s just pure coincidence…Mate you can kick and scream till you are blue in the face and harp on about how pleasing the management will get you places to any union member. They will just smile and tell you to crack on. Only a union member can see the advantages and know that their T&Cs are going to be better than your average non union member (Not all) but a lot. So if you believe that a job is just about money and bending over for the management then you have a lot to learn. On that point though, usually and obviously not in all cases but a union members rates will also be better. It is the exact opposit of what you are actually saying about the neanderthal knuckle-draggers that are union members. It is laughable what you are trying to preach.
And you can kick and scream until you’re blue in the face about how great your union is but who is the one bleating about the pay, hours, conditions and treatment in every other post, and also been run ragged by your company to the point where you’re having to run bent? Yes, you! Yeah, your £15 a month union sub is really working out well for you isn’t it ! 
It’s laughable what you’re trying to preach. You keep paying your £15 a month for your security blanket - clearly you need it as you don’t have the nous to think for yourself.
Only a matter of time til you get sold down the river and you’re all chucked on the scrap heap, same as what happened to the Tesco and Suttons drivers who thought their unions would save them. Utterly deluded about how the world works if you believe any different. But I’m sure the shop steward will thank you for allowing him to retire at 40 as you wimps without a backbone keep throwing your monthly wages at him.
I wouldn’t join the union for two reasons…
One, I don’t want part of my union subscription going to a party that tried to block Brexit and perpetuate the cheap influx of foreign labour driving wages down. Hardly protecting the workers welfare.
Two, I have worked at union places where the union rep is either in the pocket of the bosses, or they form a clique of friends that they ensure get the better jobs.
People will disagree with my comments, but that is my money going where I want it to go.
DCPCFML:
And you can kick and scream until you’re blue in the face about how great your union is but who is the one bleating about the pay, hours, conditions and treatment in every other post, and also been run ragged by your company to the point where you’re having to run bent? Yes, you! Yeah, your £15 a month union sub is really working out well for you isn’t it !
■■? Never mentioned what you say? I do recall telling you that you are being run ragged daily which you openly admit, having to tip whilst on break in order to get home, running with kit unfit for the road etc, etc. You are the one who thinks that you are impressing the manaement and that they are noticing you. Well yes they certainly are, they will be telling each other, to give that impossible run to the nutter who will break all the regs and get it done for us. Don’t ask that other driver as he is a union member, give him a good run. I think that is where you are becoming confused.
LIBERTY_GUY:
I wouldn’t join the union for two reasons…One, I don’t want part of my union subscription going to a party that tried to block Brexit and perpetuate the cheap influx of foreign labour driving wages down. Hardly protecting the workers welfare.
Two, I have worked at union places where the union rep is either in the pocket of the bosses, or they form a clique of friends that they ensure get the better jobs.
People will disagree with my comments, but that is my money going where I want it to go.
It happens mate, no denying it, but I think that is a rare example that you are giving and sounds like a half hearted union membership in which case the union doesnt work as it should. The sho steward is an important aspect to get right as well as the members who will back each other as well as their union.
Yorkshire Tramper:
DCPCFML:
And you can kick and scream until you’re blue in the face about how great your union is but who is the one bleating about the pay, hours, conditions and treatment in every other post, and also been run ragged by your company to the point where you’re having to run bent? Yes, you! Yeah, your £15 a month union sub is really working out well for you isn’t it !■■? Never mentioned what you say? I do recall telling you that you are being run ragged daily which you openly admit, having to tip whilst on break in order to get home, running with kit unfit for the road etc, etc. You are the one who thinks that you are impressing the manaement and that they are noticing you. Well yes they certainly are, they will be telling each other, to give that impossible run to the nutter who will break all the regs and get it done for us. Don’t ask that other driver as he is a union member, give him a good run. I think that is where you are becoming confused.
PMSL ! Another one who is king at reading things that aren’t there and/or dreaming up their own interpretation to suit whatever agenda it is they wish to push ! I will tip on break when it is to MY advantage, nobody else’s. That does not ≠ “being run ragged”. Thanks for the chuckles though - if I do more than 8 hrs in a shift I’ve been held up somewhere, clearly due to “being run ragged” and being given “impossible runs” 
. You stick to your £180 a year union security blanket fella and I’ll crack on with my way which has cost me absolutely nothing because I’m capable of thinking for myself and know how to say “no” when required.