There are cameras everywhere, in all walks of life you are been watched but to put one in a confined space like a cab just to monitor one person is a step too far, of course you will get people who will accept it and they will say something like, sure if your doing nothing wrong whats the problem, then you have the follow the pack who cant wipe there own arse and dont know any better.
And on top of that they would do it for min wage, you could call them the blind leading the blind, or sure it only comes on when something goes wrong, the only good thing i see about it is that all the cowboys would be run out of the game, the pretend truck drivers, the company would see how hopeless there are and they are not getting value for there min wage.
Anyways its not for me and never will be, its a big part of what makes the job the way it is now, i can live with trackers and out faceing cameras and thats it.
robroy:
TomCrin:
OP here and despite the comments, I’m not trolling. I drive LGV’s.
I’ve read many of the comments regarding inward facing cameras not saving lives and disagree completely. An inward facing camera is akin to having another person sat next to you. Your driving habits improve or you become more aware of your driving.Jury out on the trolling aspect…however.
There we have it, a classic example of the ‘New age driver’ accept anything, bend over, believe the official bs, digest it and go on to repeat it with enthusiasm.News for you mate, I as a pro driver, along with many others can drive safely without hitting bridges, or cutting in while nearly overtaking, holding others out in the midd lane, driving agressively or any other ■■■■ poor habits carried out by crap truck ‘drivers’.
So I neither need anybody sat beside me, or a camera constantly monitoring me.
So if you do to ensure you are wearing your hi viz while driving or some similar [zb] (go on admit it, you do don’t you) because you have been told it is safe and the way forward, and you believe it, then feel free to crack on.
Just don’t try and convince me of the corporate crap you have readily swallowed.
Cheers.
You’re very wide of the mark but I don’t want to get into an argument with you.
The world of driving has changed dramatically over the last 15yrs. There is so much technology available to all road users that it is an ongoing threat to road safety, where drivers lose concentration along with there being a lot more vehicles on the road and transport company’s working 24/7.
My point is exactly what you fear. A person able to look at you whilst you are driving your vehicle. I can’t see how else these horrendous accidents, where the driver is not concentrating, can be reduced. Can you?
People focus on cameras but then post everything about themselves on forums and social media. Download an app and basically give access to their phone camera all their info etc etc.
It is nigh on impossible to go off grid. It’s too late.
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TomCrin:
robroy:
TomCrin:
.My point is exactly what you fear. A person able to look at you whilst you are driving your vehicle. I can’t see how else these horrendous accidents, where the driver is not concentrating, can be reduced. Can you?
Yes i can, its called dumbing the job down, its a national and international disease, similar to the EU obsession with making the continent into the USSR (with them in control) or mass immigration in some ways, neither are working so we’ll have more and more of the same until it does bloody work, all in the pursuit of cheap one size fits all worker drones and divided easily controlled populations, but i digress.
Not so many years ago lorries required to be driven, and that meant a certain level of competence and skill was required because the only thing controlling the progress of that vehicle was the person behind the wheel.
Fast forward to today, and the driver is basically operating the steering wheel, any bloody fool can jump in and take a modern vehicle from A to B (well if its got a satnav or they’ll get lost), it takes little in the way of skill, no strength, no eye/hand/feet co-ordination required, no fine tuning over the years of that seat of the pants feel for whats going on under the wheels required, it requires no pride in the job being learned or skilling oneself up, and because the job isn’t being skilled up each new generation of lorry takes away the driver’s responsibility with the electronic tat fitted to ensure any cheap body passing can be plonked on the seat and sent off.
We are getting to the point that those few drivers who still want to control their lorries are having to fight the bloody thing for control.
There are thousands of drivers now bored out of their skulls sitting for hour after hour at a restricted speed, they’ve tuned out because there’s sod all to do other than sit there vegetating.
So now we have a minority of drivers who can’t actually drive a lorry, and have no interest in learning to do so, but they can attend a steering wheel, these bods regularly prove their incompetence by ramming standing queues of traffic up the arse or drive off the road when the vehicle itself fails to outwit physics when they simply are going too fast for a wet bend or the centre of gravity is too high (and no they wouldn’t the foggiest bloody idea what that is let alone develop a feel for it) and there we go there’s another lorry rolled or another family wiped out.
So as skills deteriorate whats the answer, we’ll deskill it further, we’ll bring in lane departure warnings, automatic emergency braking, stability and yaw controls even on the trailers now.
Do you see a pattern emerging, this isn’t going to change until some bugger at the top of the govt transport dept actually says the word STOP, lets have a rethink, lets find out just what the hell is going wrong, why do young lads drive loaded tippers at high speed in the wrong gear purely on the brakes down steep hills■■? what could possibly go wrong?
That won’t happen of course because no bugger wants to know, we’ll get more and more electronics, we’ll deskill the job further still, and sticking a camera in the driver’s face is just another electronic sticking plaster on a rotting corpse.
I can guarantee you one thing, those arse holes who have wiped families out ■■■■■■■ about with their electronic toys are from that minority of dumbed down incompetents i’ve been talking about, they wouldn’t have lasted 5 minutes when the job was the hard work it once was, why? because they arn’t lorry drivers and never will be as long as they have a hole in their arse, they wouldn’t have gone into the job in the first place and if they did they would have been sussed in a matter of days and booted out.
By the way, this isn’t a knock at new and younger drivers, we’ve got plenty who post on here that are lorry drivers, i’m talking about that small army of wheel attendants, the ones who embarrass us all every day with their bullying stupid antics getting the rest of us a bad name.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
This…all day long, well into next week and beyond…
In a nutshell Juddian. 
You’re wasting your time mate, these guys are in ignorant bliss, think they know it all but know the far end of ■■■■ all.
They will just carry on as ever, thinking they are right, readily taking all the crap they are fed, believing all the official blurb/bullcrap, and come on here repeating it as if they are on some revelation campaign trying to ‘educate’ US…because it’s us that are wrong apparentlly, we should be joining them in the touch the toes position. 
Do what I do mate, look at them in disgust, laugh at them, keep your head down and just look after no 1 making the best of a bad job, and ducking and diving from all this sh. 
robroy:
In a nutshell Juddian.
You’re wasting your time mate, these guys are in ignorant bliss, think they know it all but know the far end of [zb] all.
They will just carry on as ever, thinking they are right, readily taking all the crap they are fed, believing all the official blurb/bullcrap, and come on here repeating it as if they are on some revelation campaign trying to ‘educate’ US…because it’s us that are wrong apparentlly, we should be joining them in the touch the toes position.
Do what I do mate, look at them in disgust, laugh at them, keep your head down and just look after no 1 making the best of a bad job, and ducking and diving from all this sh.
I can’t believe there are responses on here that are for these cameras and I’m almost shocked at how readily the crap has been eagerly swallowed and spewed back out about how it’s magically going to stop accidents and the old nothing wrong nothing to fear horsepish.
My tuppence is that these cameras will only ever be used to shaft you, never to help you. How can a camera pointed at you all day every day waiting to see you do something wrong help you in any way?
Thank God I work for a real transport company and not a Corporate Solutions Provider that falls over themselves to get pish like this installed.
A.
Adonis.:
Thank God I work for a real transport company and not a Corporate Solutions Provider that falls over themselves to get pish like this installed.A.
This
I think the drop in standards is just society as a whole and the way we work and buy things nowadays 24hr hypermarkets and getting anything online from Amazon and the likes, that all need supplying so the demand for drivers is gonna go up so you will get some that are " less than perfect". Phones are pretty much mini computers to so the temptation to fiddle with them is always there as well.
i Don’t think many younger drivers really like the idea of being on camera all the time but they will have to put up with them to get started hopefully they’d look for a better job afterwards.
Its all very well saying the younger lot bend over take more crap etc but you should also remember that many don’t have much choice its basically forced on them and were not alive or working in “the good old days” so can’t really compare.
RB84:
I think the drop in standards is just society as a whole and the way we work and buy things nowadays 24hr hypermarkets and getting anything online from Amazon and the likes, that all need supplying so the demand for drivers is gonna go up so you will get some that are " less than perfect". Phones are pretty much mini computers to so the temptation to fiddle with them is always there as well.i Don’t think many younger drivers really like the idea of being on camera all the time but they will have to put up with them to get started hopefully they’d look for a better job afterwards.
Its all very well saying the younger lot bend over take more crap etc but you should also remember that many don’t have much choice its basically forced on them and were not alive or working in “the good old days” so can’t really compare.
Fair comments, but there’s enough information on this forum alone for you to suss there is another side to lorrying than that which the corporate side are going.
You can fight it, and the thing is you younger drivers are the ones who have to fight it because its your futures not ours.
Us oldies haven’t got long to go behind the wheel so the next massive shifts in electronic 24/7 spying arn’t going to affect us in our work, we’ll deal with the other aspects of big brother intrusion in our lives in other ways 
My suggestions how you could fight this is to do the job well, skill yourselves up by not just steering the lorry which is what they want, drive the things instead, fight the default to eco and eco roll ■■■■■■■■ by switching the crap off every time it tries to take over and return you, the driver, to being the one who controls the bloody lorry.
You can only do this by actually doing it, take back control of the vehicle from the bloody computers, don’t do what the maker’s trainers say ‘‘drive the vehicle on the buttons’’ and yes thats what they want, go back to you controlling the revs and when the gears change.
If the gearbox reverts to eco as do modern Daf’s, just switch the sod back to manual as soon as you see it, it’ll go back to eco in two minutes or less so simply switch the bugger back again so you are in control, because all the time you are in control you are skilling yourself up, you are back to ‘feeling’ the point the turbo spools up and knowing in your gut when gearchanges are needed, you know better than the machine which gear will be needed at that junction you are approaching, you are back in control of maximising engine braking via the retarder, because, and this has never changed and never will, you, the human with the mk1 eyeball and the connected fantastic brain, can see what is happening ahead and it’s you, not some infernal bloody program, who is going to make the best progress.
Plus it puts some driving pleasure and sense of pride back in the job.
If that pointless lane control ■■■■■■■■ gets on your ■■■■ switch the bugger off so it doesn’t, there’s always a way to fight back in small ways.
Speak to other like minded drivers who don’t want to just attend a steering wheel face to face where big brother can’t hear you, share tips, make friends in the game who A you can trust and B are competent themselves, so when good jobs come up you can help everyone including yourself by helping recruit the right drivers into teh right job and vice versa, your mate will recruit you because you’ll be good for the good job…this isn’t a new thing by the way, a very good friend and colleague and i have been looking after each other in this way since 1986, this networking works.
Practice reversing till you are as near perfect as you can get, learn things like Captain Caveman’s excellent instructions for weight transfer on slippery ground, snow etc, so you’re the one who gets going an makes it through when the wheel attendants can’t move.
As time goes by the differences between drivers and steering wheel attendants are going to be staring employers in the face, if the good drivers refuse to work for companies who install this crap and all they can get are wheel attendants, and it doesn’t matter if you watch an incompetent 24 hours a day if he can’t bloody drive he can’t bloody drive, all they will be doing is viewing the in cab results of said incomp doing what they do.
Simply put, when the dross outnumber the good, which will come to pass, the good drivers who put the effort in will be at a premium, if the good drivers simply refuse to drive with whatever bloody device they come up with and instead go to work for those more enlightened employers (they will exist i assure you, as proven time and again there are always people who will not bend over, 17.4 million at the last official count ), and the other sort the corporate one size fits all suits find all they can recruit is dross who no matter how many bloody cameras you point at them simply can’t drive, then they’ll be having a rethink too.
Mmmmm, ok Juddian, I was with you on your previous post, but I’ve got mixed feelings on that one tbh mate.
(Yeh,.I know I said I was not going to add anymore to this thread 
)
Problem is you can’t put the Genie back into the bottle, it’s out there and it aint going back in however much you me or anybody else hark back to the old days.
Tech in trucks has moved on, you have to adapt.
Unlike you, I do not miss manual boxes, I now prefer the easiness of an auto, I know I can drive, as I’m 101% confident you can, I have no more to prove on that score so I’m all for an easy life nowadays, button in gear, sit back and relax, but with attention to surroundings and situations.
It’s a bit like asking guys to dump their Focus STs and go back to an ■■■■■■ mk1 style of car, it won’t and can’t happen.
It’s more about attitude and adapability with a few skills chucked in Ireckon,.although as you say not as many as we had to learn, but that aint the fault of the new driver, as he can only play with the hand he has been dealt.
As you said there are still a lot of good drivers on today’s trucks, and I fully agree with that, thankfully I reckon that the better end of the driver types are still in the majority, you just notice the crappists more.
I think the fault lies at grass roots level, instructors are teaching candidates how to pass a test, not how to drive a modern truck, and certainly nothing about the old values most drivers once had, empathy, courtesy and consideration towards each other, so we get the cutters in, the keepers out, the teararsers, and the rest of such pricks, who bring down us and the newer lads who have actually learned to drive and learned everything mentioned that goes with it.
So add to the mix with these sorry arsed types, the ones who can not think for themselves, ones who believe everything on face value, and ones without an ounce of resistance to the minimum of liberties taken, and you get the classic modern F/whit driver who make us all look bad, because as I said…they get noticed …not us 
.
So the OBVIOUS answer in modern management’s logic are cameras…enough said. 
That is my take on it anyway for what it’s worth.
Two very interesting posts , while they appear to be opposing views I can’t help but agree with the logic of both . Personally ( if it’s of any interest) I don’t like the idea of cameras. It’s bad enough being tracked and getting a call at the 46th minute of a break without some box ticker ( they aren’t real managers ) ringing me up to complain about me picking my nose at the traffic lights .
Yes thats fair Robroy.
But the trouble is the youngsters and new drivers won’t and can’t learn about real lorry control with what they are currently issued with, hence my suggestions to not comply, not to just sit back and chill because they will never otherwise learn that hands on seat of the pants way of driving.
It was easy for us because the lorries we started with had no electronics of any kind, not even a bloody radio, its harder for new drivers to learn real control because its been taken out of their hands.
And they’d better get a move on because each new generation of lorry has ever more systems designed to defeat the driver from taking control.
Yes i’d like the clock to be turned back but i also know it isn’t going to happen and few would want it anyway (even it would actually benefit them in so many ways), but we are where we are, and whilst the more possibly stubborn of us still do things the old way , there is no reason these newer drivers can’t do exactly the same with the hand of cards they now have to play with, and not to just buckle under and tick the boxes as required of them as unthinking drones.
Whats the alternative for them? we know where its going, its all designed to further automate the job leading in the fullness of time to the driver’s of future just sitting there doing sod all bar vegatating so an attendant box has been ticked, till eventually the vegetable itself is no longer required.
Its in lorry drivers interests to not just go along with the plans that are being drawn up for them, just the same as its not in the people’s interests to accept what is planned for them either.
The ‘system’ wants one size fits all, it doesn’t want individuals, so to my mind (or whats left of it ) they have to be as individual as possible…this applies not just in our work but in the wider aspects of all our lives too, unless we are all going to submit to the new utopia they, the new world order, have planned for us, and become the good little chipped monitored worker drones they want, we, the ones who can still think for ourselves are going to have to do our share of being dissidents, or literally die.
Surely these cameras will only be like dash cams, where they record on a loop to an SD card though?
The drivers won’t/can’t be watched live surely?
Am I right in thinking that WH Malcolms were fitting these years ago?
I am not for these cameras.*
*I have now resulted to putting that on every post to avoid confusion…
robroy:
In a nutshell Juddian.
You’re wasting your time mate, these guys are in ignorant bliss, think they know it all but know the far end of [zb] all.
They will just carry on as ever, thinking they are right, readily taking all the crap they are fed, believing all the official blurb/bullcrap, and come on here repeating it as if they are on some revelation campaign trying to ‘educate’ US…because it’s us that are wrong apparentlly, we should be joining them in the touch the toes position.
Do what I do mate, look at them in disgust, laugh at them, keep your head down and just look after no 1 making the best of a bad job, and ducking and diving from all this sh.
Do you mean this lot mate?..
eagerbeaver:
robroy:
In a nutshell Juddian.
You’re wasting your time mate, these guys are in ignorant bliss, think they know it all but know the far end of [zb] all.
They will just carry on as ever, thinking they are right, readily taking all the crap they are fed, believing all the official blurb/bullcrap, and come on here repeating it as if they are on some revelation campaign trying to ‘educate’ US…because it’s us that are wrong apparentlly, we should be joining them in the touch the toes position.
Do what I do mate, look at them in disgust, laugh at them, keep your head down and just look after no 1 making the best of a bad job, and ducking and diving from all this sh.Do you mean this lot mate?..
Absolutely agree! Some drivers really do need to stop bending over on command, and meekly accepting all of this corporate,
box-ticking BS from the pointy shoes…most of whom have never driven a truck in their sorry lives.
The way things are going with inward facing cameras and various other surveillance tools, drivers’ cabs will soon become little
more than mobile prison cells!
Lancsdriver70:
eagerbeaver:
robroy:
In a nutshell Juddian.
You’re wasting your time mate, these guys are in ignorant bliss, think they know it all but know the far end of [zb] all.
They will just carry on as ever, thinking they are right, readily taking all the crap they are fed, believing all the official blurb/bullcrap, and come on here repeating it as if they are on some revelation campaign trying to ‘educate’ US…because it’s us that are wrong apparentlly, we should be joining them in the touch the toes position. [emoji38]
Do what I do mate, look at them in disgust, laugh at them, keep your head down and just look after no 1 making the best of a bad job, and ducking and diving from all this sh.Do you mean this lot mate?..
Absolutely agree! Some drivers really do need to stop bending over on command, and meekly accepting all of this corporate,
box-ticking BS from the pointy shoes…most of whom have never driven a truck in their sorry lives.The way things are going with inward facing cameras and various other surveillance tools, drivers’ cabs will soon become little
more than mobile prison cells!
Prison cells are bigger and better appointed and have a toilet
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All these old timers pining for the olden days, makes me laugh… don’t you think it’s time to quit all this “when I was a lad” Bollox.
Some of you need to catch up with the 20th century, we no longer use wooden wheels FFS
It’ll happen everywhere eventually. Insurers will insist on them,or the govt will legislate to make them mandatory. Only way it could be stopped is driver solidarity via their unions. A few places with a strong recognised union will hold out to block early roll out, but in the end It’ll be futile as the vast majority of drivers aren’t organised and will huff and puff and do nothing. I’d give it 5 years max before everyone has one.
Cameras could be fun !