the nodding donkey:
Ja, we will not only control your working life, we will also control your private life. A camera in your bedroom, to check that you have 8 hours sleep before you come to work. A tacho/blackbox in your car, to make sure you do not drive to Cornwall for the weekend when you should be resting. Any parties you intend to attend, must be authorised 2 weeks in advance.
^^^^^
THIS
Some posters on here seem to think tacho regs rule their life…WRONG…once my tachos on break i do as i wish and always have done. Even with a 9hr ill still either have a workout with the dumbells/ do a couple or three laps or so around a truck park, shower/eat, watch tv and have my usual 6hrs sleep (its all i need) getting up an hour before im due to leave. Ill be ZB ed if ill be told what to do with time off, same as i dont give a [zb] what anyones been shown on a CPC course. Ive done things my own way for the past 25 years ill not be told what to do by any inspectorate ‘authority’!
Why do people insist on this superhero no one tells me what to do bull$hit. It’s not about someone telling you it’s about professional attitude. It stands to reason if you work a long day and then don’t rest and start early next day you are a danger to society. You should not need telling it’s part of your professional duty. Maybe for 25 years you’ve been lucky. Maybe not. I hope your luck holds out
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Danger to society?? get a ■■■■■■ life ffs! We’re not all the same, i can do a long day and have 6hrs sleep and im fine, its something ive always done. Nothing to do with being a ‘superhero’ as you put it, its purely down to your own personal makeup and capabilities. I dont need ‘luck’ on my side and bollox to professional duty crap, if you want to be ruled by above then go ahead. FYI, i dont do any more than a 54hour week, i reduce rest and max 2x10hr drives to suit my own needs and thats what ill continue to do. 25years ive been lucky?? What a load of ■■■■■■
the nodding donkey:
Ja, we will not only control your working life, we will also control your private life. A camera in your bedroom, to check that you have 8 hours sleep before you come to work. A tacho/blackbox in your car, to make sure you do not drive to Cornwall for the weekend when you should be resting. Any parties you intend to attend, must be authorised 2 weeks in advance.
^^^^^
THIS
Some posters on here seem to think tacho regs rule their life…WRONG…once my tachos on break i do as i wish and always have done. Even with a 9hr ill still either have a workout with the dumbells/ do a couple or three laps or so around a truck park, shower/eat, watch tv and have my usual 6hrs sleep (its all i need) getting up an hour before im due to leave. Ill be ZB ed if ill be told what to do with time off, same as i dont give a [zb] what anyones been shown on a CPC course. Ive done things my own way for the past 25 years ill not be told what to do by any inspectorate ‘authority’!
Why do people insist on this superhero no one tells me what to do bull$hit. It’s not about someone telling you it’s about professional attitude. It stands to reason if you work a long day and then don’t rest and start early next day you are a danger to society. You should not need telling it’s part of your professional duty. Maybe for 25 years you’ve been lucky. Maybe not. I hope your luck holds out
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Danger to society?? get a [zb] life ffs! We’re not all the same, i can do a long day and have 6hrs sleep and im fine, its something ive always done. Nothing to do with being a ‘superhero’ as you put it, its purely down to your own personal makeup and capabilities. I dont need ‘luck’ on my side and bollox to professional duty crap, if you want to be ruled by above then go ahead. FYI, i dont do any more than a 54hour week, i reduce rest and max 2x10hr drives to suit my own needs and thats what ill continue to do. 25years ive been lucky?? What a load of [zb]…
AndrewG:
Danger to society?? get a [zb] life ffs! We’re not all the same, i can do a long day and have 6hrs sleep and im fine, its something ive always done. Nothing to do with being a ‘superhero’ as you put it, its purely down to your own personal makeup and capabilities. I dont need ‘luck’ on my side and bollox to professional duty crap, if you want to be ruled by above then go ahead. FYI, i dont do any more than a 54hour week, i reduce rest and max 2x10hr drives to suit my own needs and thats what ill continue to do. 25years ive been lucky?? What a load of [zb]…
Perhaps you are a Stakhanovite who can manage on long hours and little sleep, but we still need rules to prevent those who don’t want to or can’t from being expected to, which I think is something you’d respect if you are truly in favour of a policy of personal choice. Certainly, I could not maintain my performance with 6 hours sleep consistently and without a siesta, and there’s no evidence to suggest that the vast majority of people can.
I’m pretty much a 6 and half kind of guy, no issues with any more up to about 9 then I feel knackered (possibly a complicated rem rythum and partial new disturbed sleep cycle thingymajig).
Anyway my biggest weakness (apart from pornhub) is 4am starts, 4.30 is ok but if I start at 4 I’ll need a kip by 10.
We are all slightly different but know your weakness’s and all’s good.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
so do i,but im more than happy with 6 and get on with the rest of the day.
9 hours kicking my heels is more than plenty to do your housework,get your grub,chill and have a kip.
im not doing distance work to be lying about dithering and twaddling for 11 hours every day.
anytime i am,its a good kip and relaxing grub,watch a movie or whatever and crack on.
The increasing frequency of these threads tells me that driver-facing cameras are on the up. I am completely against cameras on moral grounds. I think the difficulty is that, regrettably, they are quite difficult to argue against on logical grounds. They do probably cause drivers to think before they do. They do probably “positively influence driver behaviour”. They do probably improve safety. And there’s that word. “Safety”. If the whole purpose of something is “safety”, it’s difficult to oppose. The camera installers know this, and the transport managers know this. How can anyone possibly argue against improving safety? That’s why I have no doubts they will become commonplace in the industry.
The lack of privacy argument would be met with the likes of “They’re only on when the vehicle is moving…”, “Workers in other sectors have cameras on them at all times, why shouldn’t someone in control of a 40-tonne vehicle?..”, and of course the old “If you’ve got nothing to hide, you’ve got nothing to fear…”. Arguing the point of them would easily be retorted with the likes of “A driver will be less likely to do something dangerous if they know they’re on camera…”, or that “They can prove a driver’s innocence…”. It’s a whole labyrinth of awkwardness to argue your way out of. Again, that’s why they’ll be here to stay.
I agree that it is an industry where you work alone. Drivers are alone for a LONG time. In shops, bars, etc, CCTV cameras are pointed at hotspots or places of value. Such as covering cash registers, entrances and gates. Logically so. It’s where there are potential problems or crime. A driver-facing camera is pointed at the driver. And only the driver. It’s focussed surveillance of one particular individual. For a long period of time. Much, much longer than someone in a bar or shop. A 70-hour week under the scrutiny of a camera is wrong on so many levels. They’re also not there to prove guilt (like in a shop or bar). They’re there to prove innocence. That’s why I’m 110% against the morality of cameras.
I’m in favour of cameras around the outside of the truck, to stop these gits from backing into you, and making claims where the dashcam you might otherwise have isn’t going to be looking…
Driver-facing cabs?
If you’re not collecting cash money in your jobs, they can only be there to catch drivers out.
The big question is,
is it better to
(1) Have driver-facing cameras, and then routinely sack people for using their mobile whilst driving (lifted to include eating, drinking, and twiddling the radio at rather too many places as well of course…)
OR
(2) Don’t have cameras, and just ban taking privately owned mobiles into the cab with you?
I dunno if it’s still the case, but at Nobbies you used to have to check your phone upon entry to the depot!
“Taking a picture within the works premises” was a sackable offence!
OP here and despite the comments, I’m not trolling. I drive LGV’s.
I’ve read many of the comments regarding inward facing cameras not saving lives and disagree completely. An inward facing camera is akin to having another person sat next to you. Your driving habits improve or you become more aware of your driving.
Winseer:
I’m in favour of cameras around the outside of the truck, to stop these gits from backing into you, and making claims where the dashcam you might otherwise have isn’t going to be looking…
Driver-facing cabs?
If you’re not collecting cash money in your jobs, they can only be there to catch drivers out.
The big question is,
is it better to
(1) Have driver-facing cameras, and then routinely sack people for using their mobile whilst driving (lifted to include eating, drinking, and twiddling the radio at rather too many places as well of course…)
OR
(2) Don’t have cameras, and just ban taking privately owned mobiles into the cab with you?
I dunno if it’s still the case, but at Nobbies you used to have to check your phone upon entry to the depot!
“Taking a picture within the works premises” was a sackable offence!
How it is possible check all drivers personal belongings for mobile phone.And if company start check all drivers items that drivers will cry about discrimination and more.
Dipper_Dave:
I’m pretty much a 6 and half kind of guy, no issues with any more up to about 9 then I feel knackered (possibly a complicated rem rythum and partial new disturbed sleep cycle thingymajig).
Anyway my biggest weakness (apart from pornhub) is 4am starts, 4.30 is ok but if I start at 4 I’ll need a kip by 10.
We are all slightly different but know your weakness’s and all’s good.
6.5 kind of guy? For you Dave I would of guessed more the merrier… then a nice long kip afterwards
Can’t believe you passed up on this one it had ■■■■ written all over it
There are so many widely conflicting opinions here on this subject and many others.
At the end of the day everyone is entitled to their opinion that’s what make us individuals.
As for the whole camera and what they can do and who can view then and when etc.
I am yet to see a camera that will be viewed live 24 7.
Our new 17 plate trucks have a front facing camera in and they have sim cards installed. They are capable of uploading the footage direct to sever via GPRS or 4G not sure which off hand. However it would take far too long and use a heck of a lot of data to upload the footage constantly to a server. The only options I see that are available currently is motion detection to upload footage. I. E sudden deceleration or cornering or a loud noise.
Not to mention all the footage that is uploaded would have to be reviewed by someone to ascertain if if was an event or none event.
My dash cam in my car has an sd card and records in 1440p on a 64gb sd card it stores about 8 hours or so driving before it overwrites the oldest data. Most if not all are exactly the same.
To stores tons and tons of data would require massive servers and far too many man hours to review it all except for an instance where something has happened and the footage is then viewed.
Systems like this will always be abused by an employer in some cases and by employees in some cases.
Probably the very same argument was made about digital tachographs becoming the norm.
But these things will become the norm whether we jump up and down in arms or not unless there is a case in court that proves it is against your human rights.
I would not be without my dash cam in my car, it will prove if I wasn’t at fault and on the flip side it can also prove I was in the wrong, but it’s better to be able to prove you were not at fault than have a insurer decide a 50/50 on blame by not having one these days.
TomCrin:
OP here and despite the comments, I’m not trolling. I drive LGV’s.
I’ve read many of the comments regarding inward facing cameras not saving lives and disagree completely. An inward facing camera is akin to having another person sat next to you. Your driving habits improve or you become more aware of your driving.
Jury out on the trolling aspect…however.
There we have it, a classic example of the ‘New age driver’ accept anything, bend over, believe the official bs, digest it and go on to repeat it with enthusiasm.
News for you mate, I as a pro driver, along with many others can drive safely without hitting bridges, or cutting in while nearly overtaking, holding others out in the midd lane, driving agressively or any other ■■■■ poor habits carried out by crap truck ‘drivers’.
So I neither need anybody sat beside me, or a camera constantly monitoring me.
So if you do to ensure you are wearing your hi viz while driving or some similar ■■■■ (go on admit it, you do don’t you) because you have been told it is safe and the way forward, and you believe it, then feel free to crack on.
Just don’t try and convince me of the corporate crap you have readily swallowed.
Cheers.
TomCrin:
OP here and despite the comments, I’m not trolling. I drive LGV’s.
I’ve read many of the comments regarding inward facing cameras not saving lives and disagree completely. An inward facing camera is akin to having another person sat next to you. Your driving habits improve or you become more aware of your driving.
Jury out on the trolling aspect…however.
There we have it, a classic example of the ‘New age driver’ accept anything, bend over, believe the official bs, digest it and go on to repeat it with enthusiasm.
News for you mate, I as a pro driver, along with many others can drive safely without hitting bridges, or cutting in while nearly overtaking, holding others out in the midd lane, driving agressively or any other ■■■■ poor habits carried out by crap truck ‘drivers’.
So I neither need anybody sat beside me, or a camera constantly monitoring me.
So if you do to ensure you are wearing your hi viz while driving or some similar [zb] (go on admit it, you do don’t you) because you have been told it is safe and the way forward, and you believe it, then feel free to crack on.
Just don’t try and convince me of the corporate crap you have readily swallowed.
So…
If you were offered an extra money would you accept one to be fitted? If your company was offered a reduction in insurance premiums, it could translate to a wage rise.
I am against them I am only wondering what people think.
I’m not sure but i don’t think robroy is keen on these camera’s ■■
It maybe a generational thing as my first part time job in a large retailer’s obviously had CCTV but we also had to open/show lunchbox’s and bags when leaving to check we weren’t on the rob. Another thing is if as a newer driver or even experienced drivers for that matter said i ain’t driving that with a camera watching me then chance’s are most employers would just say there’s the door then cya. As said above they probably help a newbie get started due to lower insurance costs.
My point is that your not gonna change these companies minds that they’re a good thing. A revolt probably is needed but as Muckles said by the time the youngsters have had enough their backs will be giving them too much jip to do much about it.
I don’t particularly like the idea of being on CCTV(i am when driving plant in current job) but if a job was decent enough it wouldn’t bother me really your not going to be watched all the time, who the hell would do that??
You don’t need to be. The psychological effect of the panopticon (origins from prison architecture during 19th century prison reform) does the job equally as well. That’s the point: we’re now at a point where we’re treated not too different from criminals. Accepting this technology is akin to holding your hands up and saying “I am untrustworthy. I need keeping in line. I am not worthy, nor will I ever be!”.
The question is not am I being watched all the time?, the question is what’s next in the surveillance society, and what social/political/psychological implications could it have for everybody 20 years from now? These cameras are only one small part of a much, much bigger, ominous picture. The future is very bleak, and we’re blindly walking into our own enslavement one spy hole at a time.
RB84:
I’m not sure but i don’t think robroy is keen on these camera’s ■■
As said above they probably help a newbie get started due to lower insurance costs.
My point is that your not gonna change these companies minds that they’re a good thing. A revolt probably is needed but as Muckles said by the time the youngsters have had enough their backs will be giving them too much jip to do much about it.
I don’t particularly like the idea of being on CCTV(i am when driving plant in current job) but if a job was decent enough it wouldn’t bother me really your not going to be watched all the time, who the hell would do that??
Yeh maybe I’m being wound up by a couple on here and biting too quick eh?
Thing is I’m amazed at the attitudes of some drivers (or maybe I’m not) I’ve seen the day when drivers would be up in arms about this type of intrusion to privacy.
The apathy, the subservience, the gullibility, and the readiness to accept all this kind of stuff without a modicum of complaint or resistance I find both sad and gobsmacked at the same time.
As I said, at my co. , we had the event type cameras fitted with all the crap about protecting us, but if only one or two objected as they did, how further are these ■■■■ s going to go before somebody stands up and says ‘‘Hang on this is just a step too far’’
A constant surveillance camera irrespective of whether some ■■■■ in an office is watching you 24 hours or 24 seconds, is that step.
To answer the last guy’s question would I accept it for a pay rise? …I aint that easily bought, and quality of life as a tramper far outweighs a small financial gain.
If the quality of drivers really HAS got so bad to the extent of them needing to be watched all the time, maybe the question needs to be asked why the job is attracting all these ■■■■ whits in the first place.
Is it because of the excess hours and the crap wages, which are turning off potentially good drivers so only the dross are now getting into the job?
Or what?
Either way there should be some differential policy made towards those who need to be watched and those who do not.
You don’t need to be. The psychological effect of the panopticon (origins from prison architecture during 19th century prison reform) does the job equally as well. That’s the point: we’re now at a point where we’re treated not too different from criminals. Accepting this technology is akin to holding your hands up and saying “I am untrustworthy. I need keeping in line. I am not worthy, nor will I ever be!”.
The question is not am I being watched all the time?, the question is what’s next in the surveillance society, and what social/political/psychological implications could it have for everybody 20 years from now? These cameras are only one small part of a much, much bigger, ominous picture. The future is very bleak, and we’re blindly walking into our own enslavement one spy hole at a time.
^^^ spot on, sleep walking into a total surveillance society, willingly too.
They’ll have your every action and movement plotted recorded and electronically examined in case it needs to be brought to the attention of a company apparatchik, who will cc in state apparatchiks when the reports are drawn up.
It aint going to end there, not by a long chalk, they’ll want access to your thoughts in due course, before you know it they’ll be inserting chips into the brains of babies.
Who the hell needs automation when you’ve got humanoid cyborgs that can be trained, both in body and mind, to be good little drones and consumers, and when they are of no further use simply press delete.
Data protection my arse, they already know every bloody thing about you, before you know it they’ll know what you’re going to think (assuming that is still allowed) before you do.
as in my sig below, Keep Quiet and Carry On is the new mantra.
You don’t need to be. The psychological effect of the panopticon (origins from prison architecture during 19th century prison reform) does the job equally as well. That’s the point: we’re now at a point where we’re treated not too different from criminals. Accepting this technology is akin to holding your hands up and saying “I am untrustworthy. I need keeping in line. I am not worthy, nor will I ever be!”.
The question is not am I being watched all the time?, the question is what’s next in the surveillance society, and what social/political/psychological implications could it have for everybody 20 years from now? These cameras are only one small part of a much, much bigger, ominous picture. The future is very bleak, and we’re blindly walking into our own enslavement one spy hole at a time.
^^^ spot on, sleep walking into a total surveillance society, willingly too.
They’ll have your every action and movement plotted recorded and electronically examined in case it needs to be brought to the attention of a company apparatchik, who will cc in state apparatchiks when the reports are drawn up.
It aint going to end there, not by a long chalk, they’ll want access to your thoughts in due course, before you know it they’ll be inserting chips into the brains of babies.
Who the hell needs automation when you’ve got humanoid cyborgs that can be trained, both in body and mind, to be good little drones and consumers, and when they are of no further use simply press delete.
Data protection my arse, they already know every bloody thing about you, before you know it they’ll know what you’re going to think (assuming that is still allowed) before you do.
as in my sig below, Keep Quiet and Carry On is the new mantra.
This was the point i was originally getting at that the UK has the most CCTV camera’s so it’s no surprise that they’ve decided to also aim them at drivers but they won’t watch you all the time but obviously they have the footage in case of an accident etc.
Hell Juddian humanoid cyborgs you’ll give Dr Damon wet dreams with that one
In all seriousness the surveillance has crept in more and more and we do accept it but it will take a lot of unrest to make a noticeable change i think that goes a lot further than just lorry drivers.
