Drink Driving

UK PROFESSIONAL DRIVERS FORUMS THE UK PROFESSIONAL DRIVERS FORUM (INTERACTIVE)
21

If you have more than a couple of pints after your tea during a 9hr break then there’s a good chance you could be over the limit the next morning, but does that mean you’re unsafe to drive? I’m not so sure. Obviously if you have a massive hangover then you’re not going to be as responsive as you would be without one, but you could say the same about driving with man flu, or even if you have a lot of worries that are troubling your mind and hurting concentration.

Personally I’ve driven many times after a proper skin full the night before and back in the old continental days, many of us had a glass or five of vino callapso with our tea and carried on for a few hours down the road after, I don’t think my driving skills suffered at all, if anything the fear of getting pulled over and the consequences of that made me drive a lot safer.

We’re talking about people that drive extensively and as such a lot of the things you have to do in order to drive safely are instinctive actions, so in theory that should mean that our driving is not as affected by alcohol as somebody that doesn’t do a lot of driving and has to think before they take any actions that come naturally to us.

However, the law is the law, so it is what it is, unfortunately the only way to judge impairment is by the cold hard facts of alcohol levels and that means that you can get a DD even if you’re not impaired at all, such as the following morning breath test failure and you will be judged in the same way as somebody driving down the road swigging a bottle of scotch. I think there’s a big difference between the two myself, the law doesn’t though, so now I don’t get bladdered on a night before I’m driving, I’ll have a few, as long as I’m having a good 8yrs before the last one goes down and the key goes in the ignition.

22

8 years!!! You don’t drive much, do you? :open_mouth: :laughing:

23

i love my apple juice and always will

24

England plus Wales drink level is 80mil Scottish 50 mill so beware what u drink lol

25

I don’t see the need to lower the limit. All the examples the OP posted of people who were over the current limit, I simply don’t see how reducing the limit would have changed the situation.

Now if he’d have presented me with three cases where drivers had caused carnage, had had a drink but were under the limit then he would have had a case.

A zero limit it highly problematic since many products contain alcohol although in small amounts even products marketed as ‘Alcohol Free’ can legally be as much as 0.05% abv. If that’s not enough it’s actually not impossible for alcohol to be produced by the human body it’s self.

26

As usual I think we have it about right in Scotland. The 50mil means you just would never drink anything and drive, but the lower limit does allow for some residue in you system from the night before.

If I was starting 6am on a mon mornining, and we were going out for the usual meal on a sun night, I would limit myself to a couple pints now finishing 10pm. before the change I may have had 4.

Attitudes to DD have certainly changed, I can remember when folk thought it was funny. I remember the red lion? just outside Northampton, I have seen drivers so drunk they were strggling to climb back into the cab, they must have been in some state when setting off in the morning. Thankfully it has become completely unacceptable now, obviously there will still be some who still DD but at least no one thinks it is OK now.

27

As someone who has been hit by a drunk driver (he blew 135!) I have quite strong views on this.
At what point does alcohol inhibit your ability to drive? Everyone is different, I dare say there are people who have had an accident after consuming alcohol but are below the legal limit. Has the alcohol contributed to the accident? Would the accident have happened if they hadn’t had a drink? Who knows.
I’m very much in favour of very low drink drive limit, but due to the reasons stated above (false positives) I don’t think a zero limit would be appropriate.

28

We have a zero limit here for commercial / taxi etc drivers, but in practice it’s .02. I just don’t see why the limits and punishments ain’t the same for everyone. Cars can cause carnage just as much as all the thundering juggernaughtie thingys.

29

Legal BAC limit (g/l) Standard Professional
Belgium 0.50 0.50
Bulgaria 0.50 0.50
Czech Republic 0.00 0.00
Denmark 0.50 0.50
Germany 0.50 0.00
Estonia 0.20 0.20
Greece 0.50 0.20
Spain 0.50 0.30
France 0.50 0.50 (0.20)
Ireland 0.80 0.80
Italy 0.50 0.50 (0.20)
Cyprus 0.50 0.50
Latvia 0.50 0.50
Lithuania 0.20 0.20
Luxembourg 0.50 0.20 (0.50)
Hungary 0.00 0.00
Malta 0.80 0.80
Netherlands 0.50 0.50
Austria 0.50 0.10
Poland 0.20 0.20
Portugal 0.50 0.50
Romania 0.00 0.00
Slovenia 0.20 0.00
Slovakia 0.00 0.00
Finland 0.50 0.50
Sweden 0.20 0.20
United Kingdom 0.80 0.80

me columns are kerfuffered
but first figure for car , and second for pro ( bus , taxi , LGV)

and look at page 22 fig 5 , its a graph so cant cut and paste it .

etsc.eu/wp-content/uploads/Drink … nsport.pdf

basically shows that italy & UK breathalyse less than 4% of all drivers/ year raising to over 30% for holland and sweden .

wot conclusion can we make ■■

UK has highest limit in western world and you are almost never going to be tested .

on the subject of 0% we can see that eastern europe is setting high standards with almost universal zero limits for professional drivers . and you are much more likely to be checked . indeed these figures are old and we can assume that the next lot will show poland testing 50% of drivers annually on their 20mg limit .

perhaps bearing in mind wot Conor and others have said a 10 to 20mg figure is fair as you cannot consume even a half and expect to pass this .

also bearing in mind that Scotland wants lower limits for pro drivers than its present 50mg , whence it is independent .

it does seem that UK is out of touch with modern realities on this issue , and is frankly unbelievable that we didnt bring in the 50mg limit too ,

particularly also as DD convictions have fallen 15% since lower limits for scotland

FOREIGN nationals made up more than half of the drink-drive arrests in South Holland in 2011.
The shocking extent of the drink-drive problem among the predominantly Polish, Latvian and Lithuanian population of the district came to light after a Freedom of Information request by the Spalding Guardian.
Lincolnshire Police says that of 122 arrests last year, 63 were of non-Brits

spaldingtoday.co.uk/news/cri … -1-3408461

in view of the increasingly very harsh regimes for DD in eastern europe …

i wonder if they view our very high limit as a green light to go mad ■■.

not easy to say as the government dont publish figures giving nationality of convicted DD , nor do they say how many foreign DD are already convicted in their home country .

so we will just have to wonder .

30

Seems this MRT*ME driver had a bit to much yesterday, 3 and a half times over the limit on the A14 near fenstanton.
http://www.peterboroughtoday.co.uk/news/latest-news/one-lane-of-a14-blocked-by-lorry-after-driver-found-to-be-drunk-at-the-wheel-1-7241867

31

I don’t think there’s anything wrong with our DD limit and if we drop it to silly Scottish,let alone some of those even sillier east euro levels,we’ll probably wipe out all of our country pubs.

I don’t see anything wrong with stricter limits for driving trucks though.Which is in large part all about gathering more information and acting on/reacting to it sooner than with a car.Which is why we have hours regs for trucks but not for cars. :bulb: While if you want to make the roads safer you’d probably do better by bringing in a minimum 12 hours daily rest requirement and lower DD limit for truck drivers than lowering the drink drive limit for car drivers.

Also bearing in mind that Euro limits are often much lower but the penalties for exceeding them are also often much lower and those who are likely to be the main offenders aren’t going to give a zb about DD limits anyway whether they are zero or 80.

32

Go to www.drinkaware.co.uk will show difference between scots and English limits scots law 1 beer over the limit?

33

youtube.com/watch?v=Mnqr2lhqoqg

i think its getting much tougher CF .

i had 3 drink driving convictions in Holland in the 80’s and got i think 60 , 80 and 100 guilder fines & no points . not much , just 15 - 20 g of weed or a quick bounce on a hot blonde .

but an aquaintance shot an dude in 'de Craic Bar ’ in Haarlem with a shotgun and he got 2 years of weekend prison .

i think the Poles are a bit tougher on their criminal justice .

34

The Sarge:
8 years!!! You don’t drive much, do you? :open_mouth: :laughing:

Pox eyed autocorrect, as you probably guessed it should read 8hrs, not 8yrs.

35

So BWD, you’re a racist, you’ve 3 previous convictions for DD, and you’re now advocating harsher laws on it, particularity focusing on foreigners…

I think you missed one thing: You’re an idiot!

36

I think we should leave it as it is…I enjoy a couple of beers after my work but never go over the top anymore.
Was at a truck stop last week and saw a driver absolutely plastered walking back to his cab about 11-30pm,I set off at half four and he was gone :open_mouth: .
It’s these sort of guys that need educating.

37

yorkshire terrier:
I think we should leave it as it is…I enjoy a couple of beers after my work but never go over the top anymore.
Was at a truck stop last week and saw a driver absolutely plastered walking back to his cab about 11-30pm,I set off at half four and he was gone :open_mouth: .
It’s these sort of guys that need educating.

It sounds like he wouldn’t have passed the present laws anyway, so I’d question why they need changing■■?
I think there is also a bigger issue here, and that is that if we start imposing different rules for professional drivers, where will it start and where will it end, as you’re basically unlocking the flood gates… Everyone makes the odd mistake here and there, so getting a few points is almost part of the job, especially if you follow your SatNav Micky666 :wink: For those that want to risk drink driving, it’s not like they don’t know that a DD conviction basically ends their professional career and livelihood. So why does it really need changing?
Perhaps we should have a system where ALL past convictions from when you start driving are considered instead, as this could be argued to show the character of a driver and their potential future risk. They could HGV drivers an additional number plate to display and go by a traffic light system. I’d be happy with that, as I’ve been driving almost 30 years and only even had 3 points for doing 46 in a 40. What about you BWD, do you fancy a system like that? :wink:

38

Evil8Beezle:
I think there is also a bigger issue here, and that is that if we start imposing different rules for professional drivers, where will it start and where will it end, as you’re basically unlocking the flood gates…

we already have different punishments for professional drivers. 3 points on your licence gets wiped by DVLA after a pre-set time but it stays on your permanent record. another example is using a mobile device whilst driving. numpty BMW driver gets points and a fine but we get a suspension on top of that

39

weeto:
Seems this MRT*ME driver had a bit to much yesterday, 3 and a half times over the limit on the A14 near fenstanton.
http://www.peterboroughtoday.co.uk/news/latest-news/one-lane-of-a14-blocked-by-lorry-after-driver-found-to-be-drunk-at-the-wheel-1-7241867

3 and a half times over the limit, mid morning? That means he has been necking alcohol whilst driving, not just had a few jars the night before. And that is not something you do as a one off either…

40

About three years ago I worked for a British shipping company where all alcohol was banned and if any found instant dismissal for the offender and I also had to carry out random breath tests, these had to be logged. The way I got around it was by asking who had a drink last night and if anyone said yes it was then for him/her an ‘I’m a celeb’ moment … It’s not you (to be tested). In moderation I had no problem with alcohol but I found it was the EE’s who abused the stuff far greater than the Brits I sailed with every time.