JeffA:
If it was the other way round boris wouldnt try to stop any of the migrants - he would wave them through.
Which is exactly what the French are doing, they don’t want them anymore than we do.
bigstraight6:
JeffA:
If it was the other way round boris wouldnt try to stop any of the migrants - he would wave them through.Which is exactly what the French are doing, they don’t want them anymore than we do.
I don`t know quite what you mean by want?
But anyway, France had about 408,000 compared to UK 133,000 UNHCR registered asylum seekers 2019. (worldbank.org)
3 times as many there as here.
Franglais:
bigstraight6:
JeffA:
If it was the other way round boris wouldnt try to stop any of the migrants - he would wave them through.Which is exactly what the French are doing, they don’t want them anymore than we do.
I don`t know quite what you mean by want?
But anyway, France had about 408,000 compared to UK 133,000 UNHCR registered asylum seekers 2019. (worldbank.org)
3 times as many there as here.
France has at least 3 times the area to spread them out in, so less of a problem.
We (allegedly) need hundreds of thousands of houses for the current population so more immigration doesn’t help, does it?
Buckstones:
Franglais:
bigstraight6:
JeffA:
If it was the other way round boris wouldnt try to stop any of the migrants - he would wave them through.Which is exactly what the French are doing, they don’t want them anymore than we do.
I don`t know quite what you mean by want?
But anyway, France had about 408,000 compared to UK 133,000 UNHCR registered asylum seekers 2019. (worldbank.org)
3 times as many there as here.France has at least 3 times the area to spread them out in, so less of a problem.
We (allegedly) need hundreds of thousands of houses for the current population so more immigration doesn’t help, does it?
France has about two and a half times the surface area of the UK. Not the “at least 3 times” but yes, it has a lot more.
I agree we dont have a good housing stock. That has been an ongoing problem for decades, but the problem isnt due to a rapidly increasing population, it is more due to other causes.
The market currently works to give profits to developers by keeping a shortage and thus increasing land and house prices. Houses could be built, but there are too many watching the value of their homes increase and resisting new builds.
There is a problem but not due to immigration nor to over population.
More population doesnt help solve that problem its true, but more population is not the cause of the housing problem. The market would adjust to keep the shortage about the same to keep profit high.
Its probably worse than that Franglais - remember all this “open land” the uk has is the scottish highlands where no-one lives so you are cramming them all into a much smaller space in the south east.
It isn’t just housing stock and a glib build more houses response doesn’t correct the other issues regarding infrastructure.
Like it or not England has a very high population density and building more ■■■■ to ease that issue isn’t good for the environment either
Migration needs an answer…but facilitating illegal entry simply encourages more and more.
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JeffA:
Its probably worse than that Franglais - remember all this “open land” the uk has is the scottish highlands where no-one lives so you are cramming them all into a much smaller space in the south east.
The UK does have an uneven spread of population, but to suggest the South East is full isnt exactly true. Of course anyone with a home there will not want a tower block at the bottom of their garden, I wouldnt either, but there is available land with permissions that companies hold on to for years as their value increases even without building.
The whole system is skewed away from needing to build to make money. The “market decides” is broken.
Monkey241:
It isn’t just housing stock and a glib build more houses response doesn’t correct the other issues regarding infrastructure.Like it or not England has a very high population density and building more [zb] to ease that issue isn’t good for the environment either
Migration needs an answer…but facilitating illegal entry simply encourages more and more.
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I am in no way supporting illegal migration, and am against anyone facilitating it.
If I ever gave that impression anywhere please show, so I can explain or correct it?
I am not being glib and simply saying “build more houses”.
I am pointing out that the UK housing market is broken and has been for decades.
But I do think that building more houses might, just possibly, be a bloody good idea!
And some more joined up thinking with more infrastructure following the criminal under investment for years needs action.
Don`t you agree?
The market may be broken… and the answer still isn’t build more ■■■■.
Increasing population density isn’t a solution… and whether you or I like it or not, a state has the right to set and enforce an immigration policy.
The current scenario simply encourages illegal activity…but setting up processing centres etc in France won’t solve it either.
This is only going to get worse…
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Monkey241:
Increasing population density isn’t a solution… and whether you or I like it or not, a state has the right to set and enforce an immigration policy.The current scenario simply encourages illegal activity…but setting up processing centres etc in France won’t solve it either.
The ‘current scenario’ as in lets do whatever it takes to cross the channel as opposed to the question why don’t they want to stay in France.
As for those from the Middle East why not Qatar or Saudi or Kuwait why come all the way across Europe.
It’s clear that ‘this’ state is setting anything but an ‘immigration policy’ it’s open to all that want to try to get here.
Monkey241:
The current scenario simply encourages illegal activity.
Agreed, and more of the same will do nothing.
Monkey241:
but setting up processing centres etc in France won’t solve it either.
Won`t showing the UK is open to legal immigration, but closed to illegal immigration, stop the traffickers?
There is as you say a National policy on immigration criteria.
Whether it should be different is up to the elected Gov of the day, in accordance with international law and the treaties agreed.
I am not saying those rules should be circumvented in any way. The rules (whatever they are) are to be followed.
They can be better followed by showing them operating in full view of those who want to get around them.
Franglais:
Monkey241:
The current scenario simply encourages illegal activity.Agreed, and more of the same will do nothing.
Monkey241:
Won`t showing the UK is open to legal immigration, but closed to illegal immigration, stop the traffickers?There is as you say a National policy on immigration criteria.
Whether it should be different is up to the elected Gov of the day, in accordance with international law and the treaties agreed.I am not saying those rules should be circumvented in any way. The rules (whatever they are) are to be followed.
They can be better followed by showing them operating in full view of those who want to get around them.
What you’re saying is open our doors to illegal immigration by legalising it.Which fixes anything how.
It’s clear that this country is being taken for mugs because it is offering them too much of an incentive to come here.Obviously unlike France or better suited countries based on the continents where they originate.
“Won`t showing the UK is open to legal immigration, but closed to illegal immigration, stop the traffickers?”
Isn’t that currently what the score is?
Seem to recall we have open legal immigration running into the hundreds of thousands. Yet still we have traffickers.
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Monkey241:
“Won`t showing the UK is open to legal immigration, but closed to illegal immigration, stop the traffickers?”
Isn’t that currently what the score
My point was to do the processing before they get to the UK. Either in France or Greece, Italy etc.
Do it where it discourages those who don`t qualify, from committing more of their time, energy, and prevent them becoming more determined as they become more invested in arriving here.
The question is; WHY do they want to come here?
It certainly is not for the weather. These migrants all seem to be clutching mobile phones and it seems obvious to me that they have networks of people who have already been here for some time.
Could it be that there are tens of, if not hundreds of thousands of illegal migrants already here? If so, then many family members and friends will naturally offer a ‘safe haven’ and a clandestine community.
People used to say unsubstantiated cack like “They get a free house and loads of benefits” and yet there is plenty evidence to show that they do not instantly obtain NI numbers and go to work and/or receive benefits. I reckon the main three things that drive these migrants are…
- Existing family/friends/contacts already in the UK.
- English language, easier for different people to communicate in a ‘common’ language.
- Black market, as mentioned earlier (car washing/beauty salon/nails/hair) etc.
Any thoughts?
Franglais:
Monkey241:
“Won`t showing the UK is open to legal immigration, but closed to illegal immigration, stop the traffickers?”
Isn’t that currently what the scoreMy point was to do the processing before they get to the UK. Either in France or Greece, Italy etc.
Do it where it discourages those who don`t qualify, from committing more of their time, energy, and prevent them becoming more determined as they become more invested in arriving here.
Right.
So those who don’t qualify won’t do as they do now, and attempt to enter illegally?
Take yourself outside and have a word
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Monkey241:
Franglais:
Monkey241:
“Won`t showing the UK is open to legal immigration, but closed to illegal immigration, stop the traffickers?”
Isn’t that currently what the scoreMy point was to do the processing before they get to the UK. Either in France or Greece, Italy etc.
Do it where it discourages those who don`t qualify, from committing more of their time, energy, and prevent them becoming more determined as they become more invested in arriving here.Right.
So those who don’t qualify won’t do as they do now, and attempt to enter illegally?Take yourself outside and have a word
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No. I`m not saying that.
Of those that currently arrive illegally how many remain, and how many are deported?
Those currently arriving by boat are pretty much all seen and picked up arent they? We arent actually saying they are arriving unseen? All those who currently arrive by boat probably believe they have a legitimate claim. They arent honestly believing they are going to cross the channel and walk up the beach unseen. They are told by the traffickers to phone the UK Coastguard when they get close. Thy are gaming the system to jump the queue. They are told all will be well once they get here. If they are interviewed remotely, then those who are eligible will get here, those that arent may try other methods, but since they have tried to get in and failed, their details and photos etc will be on record so they can be removed quickly.
Screening these will save time and trouble down the line. Spend a little early to save the bigger expenses later.
Any evidence that most are seen by the authorities on arrival?
Fact is we have no authoritative figure on black economy illegals in this country. And comments about those arriving here believing they have a legitimate claim? More like most are gaming the system. We’ll argue back and forth about refugees versus illegal migrants. The real issue is proving a definitive status.
The issue largely is a lack of proper identification (many will claim they’ve lost documents, many will have deliberately destroyed them)
Documenting failed refugees in France is unlikely to deter many if UK can be accessed so readily- and once they’re here deportation is problematic since establishing nationality is largely impossible.
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eagerbeaver:
The question is; WHY do they want to come here?
Carryfast:
As for those from the Middle East why not Qatar or Saudi or Kuwait why come all the way across Europe.
Ive put a few figures up already. I dont have the figures for all, but less than half a percent of Syrian refugees “come here”…
Is that a lot? Is that a disproportionate number?
Over 99.5% do NOT come here.
Franglais:
eagerbeaver:
The question is; WHY do they want to come here?Carryfast:
As for those from the Middle East why not Qatar or Saudi or Kuwait why come all the way across Europe.I
ve put a few figures up already. I dont have the figures for all, but less than half a percent of Syrian refugees “come here”…
Is that a lot? Is that a disproportionate number?Over 99.5% do NOT come here.
Is this a debate purely about Syrians?
Seem to recall the largest figure in th e last 2 years were Iranians.
What you just did was try to trivialise an issue by quoting selective figures.
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