Does this mean we can dust the CPC?

robroy:

tachograph:

trucken:
Can’t help thinking with all the other issues arising as a result of Brexit, changing things like this and drivers hours etc will be very low priority.

I agree, I can’t see the DCPC being done away with any time soon, even when we’re out of the EU I think the DCPC could be changed rather than squashed.

Why?.. We managed for years without it, we should be taking the opportunity now to reduce this type of bureaucracy for bureaucracy’s sake, now the EU has been kicked into touch.

We have all endured this crap charade now and got the so called ‘‘qualification’’ so that should be that, end of for the guys that have it, and a new system of genuine training (not money generating training )given to new unqualified drivers only alongside their driver training.

I agree, but as has been said getting rid of this type of [zb] will have a low priority for the foreseeable future, personally I’d scrap it tomorrow but then we know what a total farce it is.

When the time does come to look at the DCPC the government will have a lot of influential people telling them what a wonderful thing the DCPC is and how it raises the professionalism of drivers, we know it’s crap but we won’t be asked about it :frowning:

Having said that, I hope I’m wrong :smiley:

Williams9881:
Since have the EU do you think we could maybe get rid of CPC now?

hope not…
got another ‘lesson’ tomorrow…paid at time and a half,free drinks and sandwiches :smiley:

carryfast-yeti:

Williams9881:
Since have the EU do you think we could maybe get rid of CPC now?

hope not…
got another ‘lesson’ tomorrow…paid at time and a half,free drinks and sandwiches :smiley:

Same here. 8 hours pay and free soft drinks and biscuits for watching some slides. Yes please :smiley:

firms are as cheesed off with the red tape of the hassle of the dcpc card just as much as drivers, they have to provide a day for the training which costs money and is a waste of time as it produces nothing
so yes the cpc card will be gone without a doubt
firms do not like paying out money for nothing it does not make bushiness sense and cuts profits so all these types of things that are a cost and produce nothing are exactly the things that will be cut out in this country.

Dcpc comes under the dreaded heading of health and safety (sorry) and it will take a brave or stupid person to suggest removing it from the statute books. Imagine the outcry after the first serious incident.

Beau Nydel:
Imagine the outcry after the first serious incident.

How many have hit a bridge with a dcpc card in their wallet?? :unamused:

dri-diddly-iver:

Beau Nydel:
Imagine the outcry after the first serious incident.

How many have hit a bridge with a dcpc card in their wallet?? :unamused:

Doesn’t matter - Consider e.g. the seatbelt laws. No-one would claim that they have completely prevented deaths or serious injuries - But it would be a very foolhardy politician who argued for them to be removed from the statute books.

Terry T:

carryfast-yeti:

Williams9881:
Since have the EU do you think we could maybe get rid of CPC now?

hope not…
got another ‘lesson’ tomorrow…paid at time and a half,free drinks and sandwiches :smiley:

Same here. 8 hours pay and free soft drinks and biscuits for watching some slides. Yes please :smiley:

Don’t know why drivers despise the DCPC so much, I get paid to be there, and the firm pay for training, plus, in September 2014 I got a £50 a week pay rise on the back off it :wink:

eddie snax:

Terry T:

carryfast-yeti:

Williams9881:
Since have the EU do you think we could maybe get rid of CPC now?

hope not…
got another ‘lesson’ tomorrow…paid at time and a half,free drinks and sandwiches :smiley:

Same here. 8 hours pay and free soft drinks and biscuits for watching some slides. Yes please :smiley:

Don’t know why drivers despise the DCPC so much, I get paid to be there, and the firm pay for training, plus, in September 2014 I got a £50 a week pay rise on the back off it :wink:

Because some drivers have to pay for their own training and take time off to do it without pay.

dri-diddly-iver:

Beau Nydel:
Imagine the outcry after the first serious incident.

How many have hit a bridge with a dcpc card in their wallet?? :unamused:

That won’t matter to your local mouth frother, that reads the Daily Wail, will it?

We will be a bunch of uneducated morons :unamused:

I hope and pray its modified, to be pass/fail, and worthwhile.

desypete:
firms are as cheesed off with the red tape of the hassle of the dcpc card just as much as drivers, they have to provide a day for the training which costs money and is a waste of time as it produces nothing
so yes the cpc card will be gone without a doubt
firms do not like paying out money for nothing it does not make bushiness sense and cuts profits so all these types of things that are a cost and produce nothing are exactly the things that will be cut out in this country.

What, things like your education?

robroy:

tachograph:

trucken:
Can’t help thinking with all the other issues arising as a result of Brexit, changing things like this and drivers hours etc will be very low priority.

I agree, I can’t see the DCPC being done away with any time soon, even when we’re out of the EU I think the DCPC could be changed rather than squashed.

Why?.. We managed for years without it, we should be taking the opportunity now to reduce this type of bureaucracy for bureaucracy’s sake, now the EU has been kicked into touch.

We have all endured this crap charade now and got the so called ‘‘qualification’’ so that should be that, end of for the guys that have it, and a new system of genuine training (not money generating training )given to new unqualified drivers only alongside their driver training.

While I applaud your enthusiasm, I highly doubt the government will ditch this. Hell, I wouldn’t put it past them that they’ll up the price of it. The government doesn’t care for the haulage industry, just look at the half arsed response to the incoming driver shortage.

carryfast-yeti:

Williams9881:
Since have the EU do you think we could maybe get rid of CPC now?

hope not…
got another ‘lesson’ tomorrow…paid at time and a half,free drinks and sandwiches :smiley:

I would feel the same way, but I have to pay for the privelige of doing this horsecrap and get ■■■■■■■■ in the way of free refreshments.
One of the pitfalls of working for a crappist co. :neutral_face:

Beau Nydel:
Dcpc comes under the dreaded heading of health and safety (sorry) and it will take a brave or stupid person to suggest removing it from the statute books. Imagine the outcry after the first serious incident.

The sky was going to fall in when single carriageway speed limits went from 40mph to 50mph.

Remember home information packs. Disappeared overnight because they didn’t come from Europe. That excuse has gone now but I think one of the reasons out won is EU red tape has just touched too many people here negatively.

Radar19:
The government doesn’t care for the haulage industry, just look at the half arsed response to the incoming driver shortage.

What driver shortage?

The government has looked at the problem, took in evidence, and basically concluded that the problem is low wages, long hours, and poor working conditions.

Take any firm in any industry currently, double the working hours (to 80 hours a week), halve the hourly rates (so that they approach minimum wage), and have managers throw peanuts at the workers whilst they work, and refuse to accept new trainees into the game at all, do you think that industry would suddenly suffer a “shortage” of workers? Almost certainly.

But obviously this kind of shortage is not a real shortage which the government needs to address, it’s a shortage induced directly by the behaviour of the employers, which will alleviate just as soon as they stop doing the things that prevent them recruiting workers.

And to be clear, the prices hauliers charge, the scheduling of work, the respect they give to their workforce, these are not things controlled by any government diktat - they are entirely matters within the control of the industry’s employers.

If there are an excess of hauliers in the market, making it difficult for any of them to charge the necessary prices to pay for recruitment and retention and cover training costs, then say 50% of the existing operator capacity needs to leave the market (i.e. go bankrupt) and clear the way for the remainder to charge the proper (higher) price which reflects the true cost of haulage.

If the “driver shortage” isn’t yet hurting operators (with many fatalities), then there isn’t really a shortage yet.

Own Account Driver:
The sky was going to fall in when single carriageway speed limits went from 40mph to 50mph.

And that was just coming from drivers on here, let alone the public :laughing:

Rjan:

Radar19:
The government doesn’t care for the haulage industry, just look at the half arsed response to the incoming driver shortage.

What driver shortage?

The government has looked at the problem, took in evidence, and basically concluded that the problem is low wages, long hours, and poor working conditions.

Take any firm in any industry currently, double the working hours (to 80 hours a week), halve the hourly rates (so that they approach minimum wage), and have managers throw peanuts at the workers whilst they work, and refuse to accept new trainees into the game at all, do you think that industry would suddenly suffer a “shortage” of workers? Almost certainly.

But obviously this kind of shortage is not a real shortage which the government needs to address, it’s a shortage induced directly by the behaviour of the employers, which will alleviate just as soon as they stop doing the things that prevent them recruiting workers.

And to be clear, the prices hauliers charge, the scheduling of work, the respect they give to their workforce, these are not things controlled by any government diktat - they are entirely matters within the control of the industry’s employers.

If there are an excess of hauliers in the market, making it difficult for any of them to charge the necessary prices to pay for recruitment and retention and cover training costs, then say 50% of the existing operator capacity needs to leave the market (i.e. go bankrupt) and clear the way for the remainder to charge the proper (higher) price which reflects the true cost of haulage.

If the “driver shortage” isn’t yet hurting operators (with many fatalities), then there isn’t really a shortage yet.

“Incoming”. You forgot that part. Obviously things can change and maybe the industry will wake up at some point and reliese that they are fast heading for the bottom and actually do something to stop it but what if they don’t? We won’t be part of the EU anymore so no quick assess to a limitless labour market. How long before things hit the fan and the government is forced to step in? Isn’t it a case of “if haulage stops, this country stops”?

Radar19:

Rjan:
If the “driver shortage” isn’t yet hurting operators (with many fatalities), then there isn’t really a shortage yet.

“Incoming”. You forgot that part. Obviously things can change and maybe the industry will wake up at some point and reliese that they are fast heading for the bottom and actually do something to stop it but what if they don’t? We won’t be part of the EU anymore so no quick assess to a limitless labour market. How long before things hit the fan and the government is forced to step in? Isn’t it a case of “if haulage stops, this country stops”?

No, it isn’t a case of haulage stopping, it is simply that there will be a crunch point at which firms either cease doing the things which hinder recruitment and retention, or they will have to leave the market (and the hauliers remaining in the market acquire their vehicles, their drivers, and their customers).

Lots of people seem to talk about this problem as though it’s an asteroid about to hit Earth.

In reality, it’s as simple to solve as offering permanent contracts to brand new drivers (and having to pay for the damage they cause - which is probably only a tiny cost in the scheme of things), reducing hours by reducing the number of drops that a single driver makes (or distance he travels), and increasing pay (by charging customers more for the service).

The only obstacle which prevents employers doing these things now, is the risk that a different employer will not do these things, and will undercut the work. Obviously, if the lower-price employer cannot get any drivers anymore (because of his inferior offer to drivers), then the good employer step in and can name his price to the customer (which will be the price necessary to get the drivers).

That’s why I say that what we are really waiting for in this market is a huge clean-out of operators - more operators need to be squeezed until their pips squeak and they fold completely in bankruptcy. Only then, once competition in the market abates (by the vanquishing of uncompetitive operators), will pay and conditions improve and the appropriate number of drivers will then be drawn back into the market.

The violence in this process will not generally be felt by customers, except in terms of the prices they must pay. In the short term, all hauliers will experience a crisis in profits, as they are forced to pay drivers more than they charge customers - hauliers will “buy work” in other words (to keep their operation ticking over at a small loss, on the hope of future improvement).

If they didn’t buy work but still stayed in business, their losses would be even more grievous, because of the cost of maintaining wagons and buildings that wouldn’t be used.

What will eventually happen in this process though is that ten thousand directors of two-bit haulage firms will be put out of business - either because those directors choose to stop buying work and wind down their operation in an orderly fashion (and recover their remaining capital), or else because their bank managers call time on their buying of work and finally shutter their firms.

The eventual increase in haulage prices will reflect the real long-term cost of providing haulage services, which customers are not currently having to pay for because hauliers are engaged in ruinous competition. When hauliers do go bust, goods will still get moved, just by fewer hauliers and at higher prices. And with competitors out of the way, remaining hauliers will be able to charge the higher prices.

Perhaps for the vanquished competitors, the effect is akin to an asteroid hitting Earth - but in truth, for them, bankruptcy is just as unstoppable as an asteroid.

I’ve read through this and haven’t seen one good reason why the government would stop the CPC. Why should it would take time and money to do so ( changing a law is not easy) and the public would be up in arms when they found out the government was going to stop all Training for the drivers of LGV’s.

knight2:
I’ve read through this and haven’t seen one good reason why the government would stop the CPC. Why should it would take time and money to do so ( changing a law is not easy) and the public would be up in arms when they found out the government was going to stop all Training for the drivers of LGV’s.

Well, why cant they change the law now? Nothing else going on at the moment is there? The child killed by a driver one day after his (out-dated) CPC ran out isnt going to make the headlines? Our wonderful Press will understand. Politicians, huh! Gotta love `em.