Do we flash foreign drivers in?

[cattle_brigade]

robroy:

Terry T:
My philosophy is, if you need me to flash you in you’re probably about to cut in to my stopping distance. By the time another truck is at a safe distance to pull in it should be obvious to all but the most blind of drivers that it’s safe to pull in

We don’t NEED you to flash us in mate ffs.
At the risk of repeating myself (again ) most good capable drivers don’t NEED flashing in.
The same good drivers take the flash as a sign that you are comfortable with the amount of space they are about to leave…the bell ends who say ‘‘I don’t wait for a flash as I know exactly where the trailer doors are’’ as if they are better than the rest of us,…do not, and pull in before you flash with the result of nearly colliding and/or putting you of the road.
Am I the only one that sees that??
I overtake, again knowing when it is safe to pull in, wait for flash, if I don’t get it…couldn’t give a [zb], …but at least I know I am not invading your space when I pull in.
So you are right mate it is obvious to me, but being as I am not a complete [zb], I wait that little bit longer.

Well said mate ur spot on and all the Irish flash you in if your lucky enough to pass them and to be fair the foreigners flash it’s the ■■■■■■■ arrogant section of British which don’t flash you in!!! It’s manners and it’s a decent gesture

[supermultiblue]

STAVRO:

SuperMultiBlue:
Do we flash non-british trucks in and out? … yes or no?

NO

[terry_t]

cattle brigade:
Well said mate ur spot on and all the Irish flash you in if your lucky enough to pass them and to be fair the foreigners flash it’s the [zb] arrogant section of British which don’t flash you in!!! It’s manners and it’s a decent gesture

This argument is always reduced down to manners. Manners have got nothing to do with it. The drivers with bad manners are the ones who cut in too early without leaving a sensible gap and that ain’t me.

[terry_t]

Juddian:
Days before limiters there was anything up to a 20 mph difference (or more in some cases, no names no pack drill) regularly between the overtaker and the overtaken, even if the flash was given at the moment the rear cleared the overtaker would be many yards ahead even if a swerver was at the helm.

I was gonna bring this up myself, you just saved me the job

[robroy]

Terry T:
The drivers with bad manners are the ones who cut in too early without leaving a sensible gap and that ain’t me.

You seem pretty intent on trying to convince us that you don’t cut in mate, ok we get it, let it go.

I notice that you have answered two other posts on this, but declined to comment on my answer to you that it is arguablly because of drivers like you, who admit to refusing to show what is basic consideration, to for instance an inexperienced overtaking driver (and yeh if you like, good manners), that went a long way to starting all this ■■■■ during overtaking in the first place.

As I said trucks cutting in on trucks virtually never happened once over, the time when ALL drivers went along with this age old and proven practice.

[dcgpx]

Try going up A1 north east area, today seems to be a new game for overtaking. Had a few that creep past, and I do mean creep, eventually they got tired of it and then indicate to pull in when lucky if half way.

I’ve needed up lowering my speed to let idiots in but I could be awkward and let them sit there. If they’re virtually same speed why try and overtake in the first place, and then insist on wanting in!!

Don’t see why I should have to drop speed, even though I do as it more considerate for the queue behind the tossers, when they should slow if not able to complete overtake in a reasonable time.

Few did it today so must be the new way to get ahead! I think my flashing had a different meaning today other than your ok to barge your way in!

[robroy]

dcgpx:
Try going up A1 north east area, today seems to be a new game for overtaking. Had a few that creep past, and I do mean creep, eventually they got tired of it and then indicate to pull in when lucky if half way.

I’ve needed up lowering my speed to let idiots in but I could be awkward and let them sit there. If they’re virtually same speed why try and overtake in the first place, and then insist on wanting in!!

Don’t see why I should have to drop speed, even though I do as it more considerate for the queue behind the tossers, when they should slow if not able to complete overtake in a reasonable time.

Few did it today so must be the new way to get ahead! I think my flashing had a different meaning today other than your ok to barge your way in!

Well at least mate you were pro enough not to act like a complete arse and keep them sitting out, that would have made you as bad as them I reckon.
As somebody else said all this came about when limiters came in, that and the fact that most tend to sit on the limiter like their lives depend on it. hence the elephant race/stalemate scenario which makes us about as popular as herpes with other road users.

[carryfast]

Juddian:
Days before limiters there was anything up to a 20 mph difference (or more in some cases, no names no pack drill) regularly between the overtaker and the overtaken

High speed differentials were/are the key to safer overtaking clearances.Ironically the flashing idea was in use during earlier times of mostly gutless Gardner etc type powered wagons to help with a similar situation that limiters have caused now.IE the situation of low speed differentials.Which makes flashing more important again not less.

From memory I think the idea was/is more of an Anglo Saxon thing than European and therefore more familiar among drivers in the colonies like Australia or North America than mainland Europe.

While as someone posted previously Euro type truck drivers were probably more familiar with using flashes to warn rather than co operate and would have been more likely to get the idea driving here than at home.

So in general yes I also flashed foreign trucks in the knowledge that it might be something that some/many of them probably wouldn’t understand at first but they soon picked it up.To the point where the idea then spread among some European drivers even at home on their own turf.Although as Juddian said without the aggro of limiters combined with the faster late 1970’s/80’s speed environment it was more often just a confirmation than an important help.

[dipper_dave]

I flash other wagons when its safe to pull in irrespective of size or nationality, however my flash is normally a good 10 seconds after you buggers have actually lurched in and more for ironic purposes really.

I also flash when its not safe to pull in to keep myself on me toes.

[shane1]

This just popped into my head,alot of English men drive Irish/N Ireland trucks you would be very surprised by how many ,MVH,Mc Burney ect.ect.Then take a look at Turners or for that matter Freshlinc or as all the Irish drivers call it Freshpoll were the English driver is almost out numbered in the waiting area with no one to talk to,could not believe it until I seen it with my own eyes!

[terry_t]

robroy:

Terry T:
The drivers with bad manners are the ones who cut in too early without leaving a sensible gap and that ain’t me.

You seem pretty intent on trying to convince us that you don’t cut in mate, ok we get it, let it go.

I notice that you have answered two other posts on this, but declined to comment on my answer to you that it is arguablly because of drivers like you, who admit to refusing to show what is basic consideration, to for instance an inexperienced overtaking driver (and yeh if you like, good manners), that went a long way to starting all this [zb] during overtaking in the first place.

As I said trucks cutting in on trucks virtually never happened once over, the time when ALL drivers went along with this age old and proven practice.

You’re doing it again. Reducing it to manners. This is why we’re going around in circles.

The way I see it there are 2 main scenarios.

1 - I flash as soon as their trailer clears my unit like most drivers. The vast majority will then move straight back in creating a dangerous tail gating situation. No thanks.

2 - I wait unit the over taking vehicle is a safe distance in front before flashing them in. Again, the vast majority will just pull back over before they get anywhere near what I would call a safe travelling distance.

A flash is pointless either way. Very occasionally another driver will sit in the middle lane and create a decent gap before pulling in. Tends to happen more at night. In the day they’re scared of holding up Audi man behind so they’re more like to try and slice the front of your cab off.

Perhaps new drivers don’t do it because it’s not on the driving test. Perhaps their company insists they don’t do it. But I really don’t follow how not flashing results in people cutting in too early. Makes no sense. People waiting for a flash are only going to move over later not sooner.

[robroy]

Terry T:

robroy:

Terry T:
The drivers with bad manners are the ones who cut in too early without leaving a sensible gap and that ain’t me.

You seem pretty intent on trying to convince us that you don’t cut in mate, ok we get it, let it go.

I notice that you have answered two other posts on this, but declined to comment on my answer to you that it is arguablly because of drivers like you, who admit to refusing to show what is basic consideration, to for instance an inexperienced overtaking driver (and yeh if you like, good manners), that went a long way to starting all this [zb] during overtaking in the first place.

As I said trucks cutting in on trucks virtually never happened once over, the time when ALL drivers went along with this age old and proven practice.

You’re doing it again. Reducing it to manners. This is why we’re going around in circles.

The way I see it there are 2 main scenarios.

1 - I flash as soon as their trailer clears my unit like most drivers. The vast majority will then move straight back in creating a dangerous tail gating situation. No thanks.

2 - I wait unit the over taking vehicle is a safe distance in front before flashing them in. Again, the vast majority will just pull back over before they get anywhere near what I would call a safe travelling distance.

A flash is pointless either way. Very occasionally another driver will sit in the middle lane and create a decent gap before pulling in. Tends to happen more at night. In the day they’re scared of holding up Audi man behind so they’re more like to try and slice the front of your cab off.

Perhaps new drivers don’t do it because it’s not on the driving test. Perhaps their company insists they don’t do it. But I really don’t follow how not flashing results in people cutting in too early. Makes no sense. People waiting for a flash are only going to move over later not sooner.

Your’e doing it again, not reading my point properly. THAT is why we are going around in circles.

I understand your 2 scenarios, that is my point.
Both of these virtually never happened in the days when every driver had the courtesy to flash each other in for both reasons I have repeated over (and can not be arsed to go over again)

Drivers like you suddenly thought , ‘■■■■ this I can’t be arsed anymore’ so then also others like you didnt, which were mixed in with the more courteous who continued the practice.
So it became invonsistent.

So in place of the days when everybody who overtook an hgv knew they were about to get a flash we have:…

The ones who are too thick to realise that they should leave a safe space …and then some, don’t know (or care) if they will get a flash or not so cut in.

The new inexperienced drivers who also tend to cut in, for the same reason

The good drivers who leave enough space anyway flash or not.

So as I said because of drivers like you who started all this, we now have a complete cluster ■■■■ during hgv overtaking manouveres.
Hope I have finally got my point across to you mate , cos you know what?.. I’m getting bored with this, along with a few others reading it I would like to bet.

[terry_t]

I understand your point. You’re trying to blame me and drivers like me for the current situation and that I have no manners.

But I’ve only been driving for 3 years. I’m merely reacting the situation that we have on the roads now. I didn’t and couldn’t have created it.

I’d love nothing more than for every driver to sit in the middle lane and wait for me to flash them. The fact is that’s never going to happen and flashing at any time before I feel it’s safe is a rather pointless thing to do. If you think different then I can live with that.

[dieseldog999]

live with it then,who cares either way?? if someone overtakes you,then flash them…simple courtesy…if they wink,fine,if they don’t…and there obviously beng road commander ignorant,then hit the happy button,rip past them at a vast rate of knots,and take their mirror off with the same form of ignorance…and blast off into the sunset for a while…or just overtake them and pull in front of them to frustrate them for a while till you get bored with the game.letting them get nearly past you at night also brings emptying your tizer bottle out of the window into play…

[robroy]

Terry T:
I understand your point. You’re trying to blame me and drivers like me for the current situation and that I have no manners.

But I’ve only been driving for 3 years. I’m merely reacting the situation that we have on the roads now. I didn’t and couldn’t have created it.

I’d love nothing more than for every driver to sit in the middle lane and wait for me to flash them. The fact is that’s never going to happen and flashing at any time before I feel it’s safe is a rather pointless thing to do. If you think different then I can live with that.

Ok mate, fair enough, I didn’t realise you had only done 3 years.

The waiting scenario you describe was how it used to be in the days when truck drivers had an empathy towards each other.

Like everything else good about the job it has ceased to be down to certain types of drivers (ok, so not you, before your time)

I agree it is pointless flashing before a safe gap, however at least you can easily seperate the pro drivers from the complete ■■■■ whits with licences, by how they overtake you (or nearly overtake you, )
and just to keep on thread, and having done both UK and Europe, I would say that it is more prevelant with Brit drivers. The problem (along with others that are a relatively new phenomena,) must be at grass roots.
So whether that has anything to do with driver training, calibre of driver candidates, test pass criteria or all 3, I do not know.

[albion1971]

robroy:

Terry T:
I understand your point. You’re trying to blame me and drivers like me for the current situation and that I have no manners.

But I’ve only been driving for 3 years. I’m merely reacting the situation that we have on the roads now. I didn’t and couldn’t have created it.

I’d love nothing more than for every driver to sit in the middle lane and wait for me to flash them. The fact is that’s never going to happen and flashing at any time before I feel it’s safe is a rather pointless thing to do. If you think different then I can live with that.

Ok mate, fair enough, I didn’t realise you had only done 3 years.

The waiting scenario you describe was how it used to be in the days when truck drivers had an empathy towards each other.

Like everything else good about the job it has ceased to be down to certain types of drivers (ok, so not you, before your time)

I agree it is pointless flashing before a safe gap, however at least you can easily seperate the pro drivers from the complete [zb] whits with licences, by how they overtake you (or nearly overtake you, )
and just to keep on thread, and having done both UK and Europe, I would say that it is more prevelant with Brit drivers. The problem (along with others that are a relatively new phenomena,) must be at grass roots.
So whether that has anything to do with driver training, calibre of driver candidates, test pass criteria or all 3, I do not know.

Sorry to jump in but regarding your last sentence I have got to say I am confident it is none of the above 3.
As you know training and test are very basic and overtaking other vehicles rarely comes into an LGV test and I can assure you no trainee would be taught to cut in early and would be told to ignore any flashing lights.
Any driver that does that does it of their own accord. its the same with speeding and travelling too close. Nobody is taught or allowed to do these things while training and if they do it on a test they will have the test terminated or fail.
Its all about driver attitude. If these things were done on training or test everone would be doing it and most don’t.

[carryfast]

albion1971:
Sorry to jump in but regarding your last sentence I have got to say I am confident it is none of the above 3.
As you know training and test are very basic and overtaking other vehicles rarely comes into an LGV test and I can assure you no trainee would be taught to cut in early and would be told to ignore any flashing lights.
Any driver that does that does it of their own accord. its the same with speeding and travelling too close. Nobody is taught or allowed to do these things while training and if they do it on a test they will have the test terminated or fail.
Its all about driver attitude. If these things were done on training or test everone would be doing it and most don’t.

Blimey Albion flashing was used long before we had the HGV testing regime.IE it was a cooperative method sorted out among previous generations of truck drivers on a truck driver basis.IE it had nothing whatsoever to do with ‘driver training’ and testing which at that time only applied to cars if at all.Then we obviously had the HGV testing regime which of course imposed the highway code rules regards use of flash signals IE warning just like the horn.So we knew that we wouldn’t/couldn’t use our own signalling cooperation ideas when training or on test.

None of which makes the slightest difference to the fact that we then used it outside of that testing regime just as generations before us did.The difference now obviously being something having gone wrong among the driver pool who firstly don’t seem to realise that such cooperation is at least as relevant now as it was in the 1950’s and before.Nor do they seem to be able to get their heads around the simple idea of flashing at the right time when being over taken or waiting for it when they are over taking before even thinking about moving back to lane 1.

As I said in a situation of low speed differentials during overtakes the flashing idea is a very worthwhile addition to road safety ‘if’ it’s done and used properly.

[albion1971]

Carryfast:

albion1971:
Sorry to jump in but regarding your last sentence I have got to say I am confident it is none of the above 3.
As you know training and test are very basic and overtaking other vehicles rarely comes into an LGV test and I can assure you no trainee would be taught to cut in early and would be told to ignore any flashing lights.
Any driver that does that does it of their own accord. its the same with speeding and travelling too close. Nobody is taught or allowed to do these things while training and if they do it on a test they will have the test terminated or fail.
Its all about driver attitude. If these things were done on training or test everone would be doing it and most don’t.

Blimey Albion flashing was used long before we had the HGV testing regime.IE it was a cooperative method sorted out among previous generations of truck drivers on a truck driver basis.IE it had nothing whatsoever to do with ‘driver training’ and testing which at that time only applied to cars if at all.Then we obviously had the HGV testing regime which of course imposed the highway code rules regards use of flash signals IE warning just like the horn.So we knew that we wouldn’t/couldn’t use our own signalling cooperation ideas when training or on test.

None of which makes the slightest difference to the fact that we then used it outside of that testing regime just as generations before us did.The difference now obviously being something having gone wrong among the driver pool who firstly don’t seem to realise that such cooperation is at least as relevant now as it was in the 1950’s and before.Nor do they seem to be able to get their heads around the simple idea of flashing at the right time when being over taken or waiting for it when they are over taking before even thinking about moving back to lane 1.

As I said in a situation of low speed differentials during overtakes the flashing idea is a very worthwhile addition to road safety ‘if’ it’s done and used properly.

Blimey Carryfast do you read a post before answering? Where did I say anything about flashing starting after LGV training?
What I was saying if you care to read my post again was that no trainee would be taught to cut in sharply after overtaking and nor would they be told to take any notice of any flashing.
No trainees are taught to drive badly but some manage quite well after passing their test and completely forgetting the basics of safe driving.

[theantbox]

dcgpx:
Try going up A1 north east area, today seems to be a new game for overtaking. Had a few that creep past, and I do mean creep, eventually they got tired of it and then indicate to pull in when lucky if half way.

I’ve needed up lowering my speed to let idiots in but I could be awkward and let them sit there. If they’re virtually same speed why try and overtake in the first place, and then insist on wanting in!!

Don’t see why I should have to drop speed, even though I do as it more considerate for the queue behind the tossers, when they should slow if not able to complete overtake in a reasonable time.

Few did it today so must be the new way to get ahead! I think my flashing had a different meaning today other than your ok to barge your way in!

Stranger happened to me yesterday on A1. Was happily overtaking a bulk tanker, and he started swerving, came over white lines when I level with cab, nearly pushing me off road. So gave a quick beep. Said driver glared at me, then booted it. Leaving me out in lane 2.

Guess who gets all the abuse from following car drivers, because he decided play silly buggers…

[robroy]

I take your point Albion, and on reflection I was probably hasty mentioning the driver training aspect being the cause of all this ■■■■ poor driving that we see today amongst truck drivers.
Maybe you are right the bad habits and crap driving techniques maybe do come after the training and test.

It is that long since I done my training so I can not remember, but surely safe overtaking procedure must be at least discussed during training is it not?

I do also know the flash in thing was a system created by drivers…which worked from the 50s when it was needed more, to today, where it is still done by the good and courteous
drivers,(which includes both Brit and Foreign,) these are also always the ones who can be relied on not to just about put you off the ■■■■■■ road by cutting in when their back doors are level with your windscreen.

I stand by the driver candidate calibre theory though, it is a bloody lot easier to convert from car driver to class 1 than once over, mainly because of the minimal difference today between a car and a truck.
There are still good new drivers admittedlly, I do know of many, but where as once over, the thick element amongst us, would have not been able to hack it, therefore not slipped through the net as a lot obviously have done for the last 10 years or so.