I’'ve managed to avoid the bloody things since they came out but I’ve now got one. So everything you guys learned 5 or 6 yrs ago I am learning now… so sorry if this point has been discussed to death already. I have the old type that takes 1or2 mins off you every time you move ( I used 10 mins the other morning picking my trailer up and pulling out of the gate 
.)Another day I was stuck in the M6 j10 closure, so obviously I done numerous shunts. On my old style kitchen timer 
. at end of shift I had done 9hrs 50mins driving, but when I printed out it said 10hrs 15mins…yeh I know now you can make checks on your drive time throughout the day, after my “training” (a 15min tacho lecture on the phone by my mate ) but I wondered how I stood from a legal point of view. ie in REAL terms I was legally within my time, but according to a tacho which is known for taking time away (due to what equates to a design fault) how would a court interperet it, and has anybody actually been done for this in similar circumstances?
If it says on the card you have done more than 10 hrs driving then that’s how Vosa will read it too. We have the new ones and i was stuck on M25 yesterday morning for about an hour and it was hardly registering anything as i was very slowly shunting forward about every 10 mins, in fact i drove over 4 1/2 hours but only 4.20 shown up on card.
Because the tacho records in whole minutes, without a trace, there is no way to discern between stop/start driving on a slip road, nor driving continuously. Although your ‘explanation’ may seem reasonable to you, you have commited a drivers hours infringment. Enforcment officers may give you leeway for this one offence, but make a habit of it and it will cost you.
wiiispa:
Because the tacho records in whole minutes, without a trace, there is no way to discern between stop/start driving on a slip road, nor driving continuously. Although your ‘explanation’ may seem reasonable to you, you have commited a drivers hours infringment. Enforcment officers may give you leeway for this one offence, but make a habit of it and it will cost you.
I take on board what you are saying mate, and thanks, but you’re right my explanation IS reasonable to me, as it is based on “real world” not" VOSA legislation/theory world" as I said in REAL TERMS as far as I am aware, I did not ACTUALLY drive over my time, so why should theory take precedence over reality, surely a good solicitor could chuck this out of court if it did happen to go that far.
Unless i am mistaken (and i could be) sitting in a traffic jam and stop starting will all count as driving time .The rules on driving time are based on VOSA’s interpretation not yours 
.Basically if you are behind the wheel with engine running and prepared to move (even though you may not be moving)you are driving ,that is why your driving time is over the limits
If you did a print out write on it that you were new user and all the excuses and you should be ok .
As always you will be polite and submissive to visa man as he interrogates you
PS visa in the real world ? Now that is weird
Pps why can’t I type o’s properly
Jim
robroy:
I take on board what you are saying mate, and thanks, but you’re right my explanation IS reasonable to me, as it is based on “real world” not" VOSA legislation/theory world" as I said in REAL TERMS as far as I am aware, I did not ACTUALLY drive over my time, so why should theory take precedence over reality, surely a good solicitor could chuck this out of court if it did happen to go that far.
Well I’ve asked this question before. The best explanation I heard - depends on the definition of ‘Driving’. Whilst sat on the slip road, in the queue, you were actually behind the wheel. Although the wheels of the truck weren’t turning, it could and would be argued that you were in fact driving. In the past, the analogue tacho couldn’t record this fact. The digital tacho does. So arguably, you have beeen commiting an offence in the past, which could not be recorded by the technology at the time. Now it can.
If this is going to be a problem for you in your job, there are ways to minimise the number of minutes driving recorded by the tacho. the reason it records 2 minutes for a short move sometimes, is because it looks at whole minutes ‘as the clock ticks over’. For example when the clock ticks from 04:00 to 04:01 the tacho asks itself “was there any driving in the last minute?” If so, the whole minute is recorded as driving. Now if you happen to drive at say 04:00:55 seconds and stop driving at 04:01:05 seconds, you’ve only driven for 10 seconds right? Thats not how the tacho sees it. At 04:01:00 the tacho ‘sees’ 5 seconds driving and records that whole minute as driving. At 04:02:00 it ‘sees’ another 5 seconds driving and records that whole minute as driving.
To minimise this, don’t start driving until you see the minute tick over on the tacho. It can get you out of a lot of trouble.
Again I reckon you are right and I am just going to have to watch out more closely for this like everybody else.(STILL learning things about the job after all these years ) is it right that the latest ones are more efficient, and round things up to the second rather than the minute?
robroy:
Again I reckon you are right and I am just going to have to watch out more closely for this like everybody else.(STILL learning things about the job after all these years
Yes but for some reason my one throws random infringements up like daily rest period exceeded and daily drive time limit exceeded when I’ve come nowhere near to exceeding either
Anyone know what the “1M” means when inserting the card?
robroy:
Again I reckon you are right and I am just going to have to watch out more closely for this like everybody else.(STILL learning things about the job after all these years
Yes they are which is what I was sort of on about earlier in my post.
Welcome to the digital age 
.
Just gone through this transition, gob smacked a the differance in driving time used.
It is true that the newer ones dont steal as much time, i have been quoted near £600 plus fitting and calibration! Still shopping.
You should also note that if you move about 7 seconds at the start of a calendar minute and 7 seconds at the end of the third calendar minute the old digitachs will not only consider the 1st and 3rd minutes as driving but retrospectively include the 2nd (previously noted as work) as driving, i.e. for about 14 seconds of true movement, 180 seconds of driving are recorded. Obviously, if that happens a lot (e.g. a big hold-up of a stop/start kind) it could seriously and IMO unfairly curtail your day. Moving for less than about 5 seconds at a time will not be recorded as driving. I try to start moving a few seconds before the digitach clock clicks over a minute to maximise driving time, otherwise, you will be deprived of, on average, 1 minute of driving every time you start and stop. If you are stopped in traffic and switch the ignition off (like we are told to) and hand brake on, then you are NOT driving, though the old digitach will in all likelihood consider it so.
sat on the bay at Waitrose MK yesterday, they called my number, gave me my keys & I strolled back to the lorry, noting that I’d been on the bay with taco on Break for about 36 minutes. So I had to waste 9 minutes ‘Building up the Air’ & generally making sure that it was safe to move off On about 40 minutes a Warehouse ‘Monkey’ shouts from the back door for me to move off (even though there were about 50 empty bays) so just to keep the peace I moved forward very slowly to give me enough room to close the back doors & the taco stayed on break. (eventually giving me a full 45)
Question is - what speed (ie-2 or 3 mph)or how far/distance before it reverts to driving ? (or was this just a one off, I’ve tried to move a couple of yards before but it always reverts to driving mode, Grrrrr)
martyh:
Unless i am mistaken (and i could be) sitting in a traffic jam and stop starting will all count as driving time .The rules on driving time are based on VOSA’s interpretation not yours
Which is exactly why the EU introduced the newer one where it does not count it all as driving time, but rather ‘other work’ which is how it should be (in my opinion). Last winter when I was back in England for a few months, I worked along side my dad at the same firm. One monday morning we left the yard, went down to Immingham dock to collect our trailers and arrived back at the outgate together at the same time. His old style digital tacho had recorded 44 minutes, mine had only 19 minutes! I made my delivery to Wrexham in 4:20 minutes, he had to have a 45 minute break near Chester. I was tipped and heading for reload before he’d even got there. Digital tachos are bad enough but those old ones are a joke and I refuse to drive any truck with one if I’m ever back in the UK long enough to do some driving work.
Although some VOSA people will stick to the letter of the law, I have a friend who is a Police Accident Investigator and HGV Law specialist and he has been trained to allow up to 30 mins. leeway on original tachos because they know of the issue. If the discrepancy is larger than that and the driver shouts loud enough they will do a full analysis and check actual movement against logged time. Obviously they will not confirm this if asked because they cannot be seen to allow apparent breaches of the law.
So the bottom line is that if you don’t show too many infringements and always do a printout with a written explanation for any large breaches you are unlikely to strike trouble.
My information is given with the usual disclaimers
robroy:
I’'ve managed to avoid the bloody things since they came out but I’ve now got one. So everything you guys learned 5 or 6 yrs ago I am learning now… so sorry if this point has been discussed to death already. I have the old type that takes 1or2 mins off you every time you move ( I used 10 mins the other morning picking my trailer up and pulling out of the gate
Sorry to tell you this but “Driving time” is whatever is recorded on the tachograph/card as driving, it doesn’t matter how much actual driving you’ve done if the tachograph records it as “Driving” then it’s added to the driving time.
Unfortunately the fist digital tachographs recorded a lot of standing time or other work as “Driving” so as you’ve found out you could lose a lot of actual driving time during the day.
Because driving time is any time recorded as such on the tachograph, If the tachograph recorded 10 hours 15 minutes driving then I’m afraid that’s what a court would say you’ve done.
You need to do a couple of printouts and write the explanation on the back of both of them, hand one printout in when your card is downloaded and keep the other with you in case you get stopped.
i can record break in a q, as long as you move forward slowly and when you stop click it back on to break and it stays on, let it click over a min then move again/repeat the process as you go on. saves loads of time. i.e in west burton power station this week loading ash, no sign of the shovel driver, 7 trucks to load in front of me, put it on break, moved 7 times in the q and kept it on break and no driving time, happy days
tango boy:
i can record break in a q, as long as you move forward slowly and when you stop click it back on to break and it stays on, let it click over a min then move again/repeat the process as you go on. saves loads of time. i.e in west burton power station this week loading ash, no sign of the shovel driver, 7 trucks to load in front of me, put it on break, moved 7 times in the q and kept it on break and no driving time, happy days
Thats ok if you consider a break as a hinderance rather than a necessity,… I don’t.
robroy:
tango boy:
i can record break in a q, as long as you move forward slowly and when you stop click it back on to break and it stays on, let it click over a min then move again/repeat the process as you go on. saves loads of time. i.e in west burton power station this week loading ash, no sign of the shovel driver, 7 trucks to load in front of me, put it on break, moved 7 times in the q and kept it on break and no driving time, happy daysThats ok if you consider a break as a hinderance rather than a necessity,… I don’t.
depends if youre on hours/and or what kind of work youre in. some drivers like to toss it off others like to get on, i didnt see the point in waiting there an hour then having a 30 mins break, it made sence there and then to put it on break, i showed an hours break and no driving time. happy days
tango boy:
i can record break in a q, as long as you move forward slowly and when you stop click it back on to break and it stays on, let it click over a min then move again/repeat the process as you go on. saves loads of time. i.e in west burton power station this week loading ash, no sign of the shovel driver, 7 trucks to load in front of me, put it on break, moved 7 times in the q and kept it on break and no driving time, happy days
The problem with that is that if you was to have an accident and the tachograph 24 hour trace was checked, I believe it would probably show that the vehicle had been moved even though it’s not recorded on the driver card