tango boy:
i can record break in a q, as long as you move forward slowly and when you stop click it back on to break and it stays on, let it click over a min then move again/repeat the process as you go on. saves loads of time. i.e in west burton power station this week loading ash, no sign of the shovel driver, 7 trucks to load in front of me, put it on break, moved 7 times in the q and kept it on break and no driving time, happy days
The problem with that is that if you was to have an accident and the tachograph 24 hour trace was checked, I believe it would probably show that the vehicle had been moved even though it’s not recorded on the driver card
martyh:
Unless i am mistaken (and i could be) sitting in a traffic jam and stop starting will all count as driving time .The rules on driving time are based on VOSA’s interpretation not yours .Basically if you are behind the wheel with engine running and prepared to move (even though you may not be moving)you are driving ,that is why your driving time is over the limits
Sorry but that’s not correct.
The legal definition of driving in the UK is to be sat in a vehicle to exercise control over it and that’s also the definition of driving for the domestic regulations.
However for the EU regulations driving is defined as any time recorded by the tachograph as driving, so if the tachograph doesn’t record driving then you wasn’t using the driving time allowed by the EU regulations.
By the way, it has nothing to do with VOSA and is not their definition of driving, the bureaucrats in Brussels are responsible for both the definition of driving in the EU regulations and how the tachograph records driving.
tango boy:
i can record break in a q, as long as you move forward slowly and when you stop click it back on to break and it stays on, let it click over a min then move again/repeat the process as you go on. saves loads of time. i.e in west burton power station this week loading ash, no sign of the shovel driver, 7 trucks to load in front of me, put it on break, moved 7 times in the q and kept it on break and no driving time, happy days
The problem with that is that if you was to have an accident and the tachograph 24 hour trace was checked, I believe it would probably show that the vehicle had been moved even though it’s not recorded on the driver card
when its down loaded it doesnt show
When the data from the tachograph VU is downloaded it won’t show, but there’s a trace in the VU that records the last 24 hours of vehicle movements a bit like the trace on an analogue tachograph, and I would have thought that would show all movements of the vehicle.
tango boy:
i can record break in a q, as long as you move forward slowly and when you stop click it back on to break and it stays on, let it click over a min then move again/repeat the process as you go on. saves loads of time. i.e in west burton power station this week loading ash, no sign of the shovel driver, 7 trucks to load in front of me, put it on break, moved 7 times in the q and kept it on break and no driving time, happy days
The problem with that is that if you was to have an accident and the tachograph 24 hour trace was checked, I believe it would probably show that the vehicle had been moved even though it’s not recorded on the driver card
when its down loaded it doesnt show
When the data from the tachograph VU is downloaded it won’t show, but there’s a trace in the VU that records the last 24 hours of vehicle movements a bit like the trace on an analogue tachograph, and I would have thought that would show all movements of the vehicle.
I could be wrong though
fair enough m8 but we’ve been doing it over a year now with no problems, and not heard any problems of any of body else who does the same thing. every days a school day. still learning
tango boy:
fair enough m8 but we’ve been doing it over a year now with no problems, and not heard any problems of any of body else who does the same thing. every days a school day. still learning
Bloody hell. A driver who actually wants to crack on with the job! A refreshing change on here from all the usual number crunching jobsworths who pander to the EU’s micro management of their lives to the minute by means of an electronic device. The rest of the world outside of the EU has only a fraction of the regulation for drivers hours and on the whole, drivers hours which allow for a far higher productivity and we just get on with it. I do far more driving in my day here than would ever be allowed in Europe, but because I’m not constantly clock watching and worrying about my livelyhood for going 1 minute over my time, I’m not stressed, I’m not tired, I’m not fatigured.
In my opinion the EU has lost sight of what is important and things are now simply regulated for the sake of being so. It seems that in the UK the most important aspect of most “drivers” jobs isn’t the actual driving of the truck for the profit of the company/economy but this hell bent obsession with the ticking clock and not deviating even a second beyond the pre ordained times that are inflicted upon them by people who have and will never have to drive a truck and lead their lives according to it. We’re living breathing humans, not a light bulb to be turned on and off when EU dictat says so. All we need are set start times and finish times, just like what works perfectly well in Canada, the USA and NZ and all this other unnecessary crap in between serves no other purpose than to over complicate the situation and provide a reason to exist for thousands of officials and jobsworths who’s only reason for existing in their job is to prevent you from getting on with yours.
I will admit that drivers hours regs are pedantic and a bit over the top, but any limits on hours and breaks are designed in broad terms for the drivers benefit, and to save some drivers from themselves ( and save other road users from the results of said driver’s attitudes). As long as I can remember you have always got the star who would work 24 hrs if they could and treat rest and breaks with the cynical attitude displayed by a certain number on here a lot of which who are willing to do these excessive hours for next to f/all)…one of the reasons most of us are working for a crap hourly rate) Apart from that nobody on here is completely anonymous, there is always someone who knows who you are on here , so to come on here and freely admit to regularly breaking the law, and go on to say “we’ve all done it for over a year” thus dropping the rest of his firm’s drivers in it …just think about it …enough said!
Ive often wondered why , considering all the time that was given to the task and years of circumstantial evidence, that the tacho makers got something so simple, so badly wrong and unfinished.
Ive often wondered why , considering all the time that was given to the task and years of circumstantial evidence, that the tacho makers got something so simple, so badly wrong and unfinished.
Its not rocket science afterall.
And why did the industry let it happen?
Considering the weight placed on creating an even playing field for operators the three different methods used to record hours make a nonsense of fairness.
Take three trucks on the same run, bit of queuing and a bit of traffic. One analogue, one early digital and one second generation digital.
All are going to record differing data!
robroy:
I’'ve managed to avoid the bloody things since they came out but I’ve now got one. So everything you guys learned 5 or 6 yrs ago I am learning now… so sorry if this point has been discussed to death already. I have the old type that takes 1or2 mins off you every time you move ( I used 10 mins the other morning picking my trailer up and pulling out of the gate .)Another day I was stuck in the M6 j10 closure, so obviously I done numerous shunts. On my old style kitchen timer . at end of shift I had done 9hrs 50mins driving, but when I printed out it said 10hrs 15mins…yeh I know now you can make checks on your drive time throughout the day, after my “training” (a 15min tacho lecture on the phone by my mate ) but I wondered how I stood from a legal point of view. ie in REAL terms I was legally within my time, but according to a tacho which is known for taking time away (due to what equates to a design fault) how would a court interperet it, and has anybody actually been done for this in similar circumstances?
i’ll got this on tuesday morning for being 12 mins over a 10 hour driving 5 months ago £60 fpn and a 16 mins over a 9 hour driving 2 months ago £60 fpn + 2 counts of insufficent rest in a 24 hour period too go with them which is £60x2 . spoke too my soliciter on thurs afternoon about appealing it, his advice was if i lost i would end up paying a helalva lot more than £240 if i was found guilty and if i did win chances are vosa would appeal it
By and large, pretty minimal offences there. Driving for 9 hours 16 minutes is not even an offence per se. Even without the excessive recording of driving there are provisions for exceeding driving time under EU regs. You should write on a printout why you went over hours to save money in future.
P.S. to Martinviking, moving at at least 1km/h (as shown on the device) for more than about 5 seconds will record a minute’s driving on the old digitach. This would possibly be a distance of about (s=u+v/2*t) only a few yards.
robroy:
I will admit that drivers hours regs are pedantic and a bit over the top, but any limits on hours and breaks are designed in broad terms for the drivers benefit, and to save some drivers from themselves ( and save other road users from the results of said driver’s attitudes). As long as I can remember you have always got the star who would work 24 hrs if they could and treat rest and breaks with the cynical attitude displayed by a certain number on here a lot of which who are willing to do these excessive hours for next to f/all)…one of the reasons most of us are working for a crap hourly rate) Apart from that nobody on here is completely anonymous, there is always someone who knows who you are on here , so to come on here and freely admit to regularly breaking the law, and go on to say “we’ve all done it for over a year” thus dropping the rest of his firm’s drivers in it …just think about it …enough said!
im sorry. im sure youre an angel and never ever broke the law ever. driving, tacho or anything. i bow down to you. god
Snudger:
By and large, pretty minimal offences there. Driving for 9 hours 16 minutes is not even an offence per se. Even without the excessive recording of driving there are provisions for exceeding driving time under EU regs. You should write on a printout why you went over hours to save money in future.
had already used the two 10’s that week, when i was taken in by the stopper car i knew about these offences on the card but thought i would at most get a word of advice from them, told the officer when i handed him my card about them then an hour later i’m walking out with that. got the drivers hours lecture and how the last 2 hours of driving time remaining should be looking for a sufficent and safe parking place without going over the hours and how they are in place too save lifes blah blah blah. it could have been a diffrent story if it was another officer that dealt with me, he may have let me off with a caution and a word in my ear but thats life, some you win some you lose, no point in getting upset about it as lifes too short too worry about it.
robroy:
I will admit that drivers hours regs are pedantic and a bit over the top, but any limits on hours and breaks are designed in broad terms for the drivers benefit, and to save some drivers from themselves ( and save other road users from the results of said driver’s attitudes). As long as I can remember you have always got the star who would work 24 hrs if they could and treat rest and breaks with the cynical attitude displayed by a certain number on here a lot of which who are willing to do these excessive hours for next to f/all)…one of the reasons most of us are working for a crap hourly rate) Apart from that nobody on here is completely anonymous, there is always someone who knows who you are on here , so to come on here and freely admit to regularly breaking the law, and go on to say “we’ve all done it for over a year” thus dropping the rest of his firm’s drivers in it …just think about it …enough said!
im sorry. im sure youre an angel and never ever broke the law ever. driving, tacho or anything. i bow down to you. god
I thank you and so you should!!, nice to see you know your place…from God.
( and save other road users from the results of said driver’s attitudes). As long as I can remember you have always got the star who would work 24 hrs if they could and treat rest and breaks with the cynical attitude displayed by a certain number on here a lot of which who are willing to do these excessive hours for next to f/all)…one of the reasons most of us are working for a crap hourly rate) Apart from that nobody on here is completely anonymous, there is always someone who knows who you are on here 
, so to come on here and freely admit 
to regularly breaking the law, and go on to say “we’ve all done it for over a year” thus dropping the rest of his firm’s drivers in it 
and so you should!!, nice to see you know your place…from God. 