Doing some work today. Started at 5.30am DST and was a passenger until 0814 UTC when I put my digicard in for the first piece of my driving. No print roll. Eventually figure out what button does what on the Stoneywotsit.
Finished at 1820 UTC. Display showed driving time top left as 6h22m. Breaks as 0h36m (15+21). Everything else between 0814 - 1820 other work.
Driving time seemed to rack up quickly despite not much distance covered. I hear they like whole minutes, but couldn’t work it out.
Opinions please?
Cheers.
Figure there was something for the start location (Ireland), then at the end something for the finish location, (Ireland)
It’s illegal to use a vehicle with a digital tachograph until you’ve got a driver card, applying for it isn’t enough.
To be honest I don’t understand what you want opinions on, you’ve apparently driven for 6 hours 22 minutes without the correct breaks even though you saw the 15 minute warning, you apparently had a 15 minute break followed by a 21 minute break which would count for nothing as the second part of a split break has to be no less than 30 minutes, and you was using a digital tachograph with no print paper.
Sorry m8, but my opinion is that you need to learn the regulations, you’ve now got infringements on your card that will probably stay on there for some considerable time, if this is the first time you’ve used a digital tachograph I’m sure you would be excused some minor errors, but you should really know the driving and break regulations.
he should not have driven the vehicle, even though this is illegal it is of no concern to you legally as it is his own doing not yours
macplaxton:
Driving back, I get a warning that I’ve got 15 left. Then it flashed at 4.5h reminding of break. Carried on.
illegal as far as i can see. you should have stopped for at least 45 minutes (better to take +45 or +30 if already taken 15 mins just to ensure complete break taken)
i guess you will just have to ride the storm if you ever get stopped while it is still on your card or the company get a visit from VOSA.
just a note for next time as well mate…
you are required to carry spares in case it is needed by people in authority (feds or VOSA) it doesnt say how many is sufficient but i always carry two spare. if there isnt any oin the wagon i take out (drive for agency as well) i ask the company for spares. if they dont give me any and it needs replacing (at the end of my shift i print the complete day off as routine) i use one of mine and put it down as miscellaneous expense’s at £3.66. you will be amazed how many companies then make sure the vehicles have them in
(before anyone gets picky about the price i bought a box from the services for £10.97 for 3 rolls and have kept the receipt)
I put my hands up, I should know better, but I’m this side of the water.
Gibsla, I would carry loo rolls, but I wasn’t even informed it was a digi job. I will get some paper and study the manual.
I did neglect one detail, which I’m not certain has a bearing or not, and the reason I put “may or may not”:
I was asked to do cat C work. Part of the job was cat C, part CE.
The C job was a tipper sitting in front of a road planer. I was told the work was exempt. Is it? The CE was driving the tipper + trailer with road planer back from site.
My licence is issued by the DVLA. My digicard by the RSA.
‘You don’t have to say anything, however, it may harm your defence if you fail to mention when questioned something you later rely on in Court. Anything you do say may be given in evidence…’
The other guy who drove was committing an offence by not having his own Digi Card. Doesn’t matter if he has applied, you don’t drive until you have received it.
Unfortunately it looks like you have a couple of offences;
fail to keep record, if you got in the vehicle at 04:30, that’s when your card goes in slot 2, assuming you were the passenger.
no paper roll for printout
would appear to be insufficient break from driving
start and end of duty locations are required
Tachograph beat me to most of this, look on the bright side, he doesn’t have a Warrant Card, I do
Seriously, get a copy of GV262 from your local VOSA office and read it. After all, it’s your licence and livelihood
geebee45, I’ve a printed out GV262 here in my hand. Have read it a couple of time too. Took it in to a certain extent. Do you know of a local equivalent? I haven’t found it yet…
Going over the 4 things:
Would a manual record on a chart suffice? Is there a manual entry facility on the VU?
Point taken, need to add some to the shopping list of things I have to pay for out of my own pocket to cover my arse.
Breaks, I should know better
All that was showing on the display was Ireland? Now I know with analogues you put a town name down. What’s the score with digitals?
Thanks, I’ll think I’ll give non-domestic work a wide berth for a while!
macplaxton:
I did neglect one detail, which I’m not certain has a bearing or not, and the reason I put “may or may not”:
I was asked to do cat C work. Part of the job was cat C, part CE.
The C job was a tipper sitting in front of a road planer. I was told the work was exempt. Is it?
There is a derogation that may possibly cover this, but it’s a UK derogation and may not apply in Ireland, I don’t know.
In any case you would need to record this as out of scope, if it does cover your situation about the only thing you could do now would be to write a manual entry on a printout when you get the chance.
Vehicles used in connection with sewerage, flood
protection, water, gas and electricity maintenance
services, road maintenance or control, door-to-door
household refuse collection or disposal, telegraph or
telephone services, radio or television broadcasting
and the detection of radio or television transmitters
or receivers.
macplaxton:
Does this appear as bad as it first seems?
Nothings ever as bad as it first seems, but it would be worth taking more care in future
Ok, so I can’t get a printout. Manual entry on a chart the next best thing?
Let’s say the owner/op is correct and it has a derogation here too, then for the sake of argument “domestic rules” apply (for the sake of argument lets say UK).
How does the driving / breaks stack up then.
If there’s a derogation, then does WTD come into it. I know of 30 for shifts between 6-9h. Double manning and break make any difference.
I did see “out of scope” on the menu and I think I pressed the correct buttons to add it. If it’s “out of scope” do I even need to put a card in?
Good, reliable information seems thin on the ground in my parts, so I’m that’s why asking here.
Edit found on RSA website:
4 Categories of vehicles and operations exempted from the application of the drivers’ hours rules within Ireland only (National Derogation). (h) ii.road maintenance and control
You should really have had 45 minutes of break for the wtd but it’s not really anything to worry about.
The rest would really depend on how much driving you did that was in scope.
If you want to check for sure, you would need to have access to another digitach to do a printout, or have the card data downloaded.
As far as I’m aware you would need to do any manual entries on a printout.
4 Categories of vehicles and operations exempted from the application of the drivers’ hours rules within Ireland only (National Derogation). (h) ii.road maintenance and control
Never noticed the edit before, so if you put it in as out of scope your probably legal
Thanks for all the replies. Should have put the road maintenance bit in at the start
I’ll would like to go over the details tomorrow, once I’ve looked yet again at GV262 and filled in the blanks. I really want to get it right! (hopefully next time).
Spoke to the RSA. Not that much the wiser about the details of the derogation. The woman seemed to think that some work was in scope and some out of scope.
Gaffer considered the whole lot out of scope.
Asked a general question to VOSA enforcement bloke, didn’t appear to be a problem keeping a manual record on a analogue chart for the work done and it was the best I could do under the circumstances.
I would appreciate it if we could pick the bones out of this one and work out what work was in or out of scope and afterwards help me fathom out how it should have been entered on the “StoneyBridge” VU.
I would have thought that the one part that’s disputable would be taking the plant to site and back, as you were using the same vehicle all day it could be seen as road maintenance but then again it could be seen as normal plant movement to and from site, personally I would guess at it being seen as normal plant movement and in-scope of the EU regulations, be interesting to hear other points of view though.
Ok, here’s the run-down of that day’s activities. For the sake of clarity, I’ve put the lot as UTC.
0430 picked up from near house Co. Dublin, riding as passenger.
0630 stop a garage for munchies. Co. Roscommon.
0700 arrive near site 10k from garage waiting for other subbies.
0914 is when I change from passenger to drivers seat. Insert card.
Between these time I take 1x 15m break, three bits of road are planed and I make 3 trips to quarry 5k down the road to dump. Estimate driving time to quarry = 20 mins max. Lots of small movement to catch load. Seems to rack a lot of time on the digi.
1600 arrive at garage stop for tea 21m break. Leave Co. Roscommon.
1820 arrive near house Co. Dublin.
Looking at the shift these ways and assuming that I loaded the car when I first got in the vehicle at 0430:
If I took an extra 9 to make a full 30, the shift would have been okay: a) under tacho? b) under WTD?
If I took a 15 and 21 but work between 0914 and 1550 was out of scope for tacho?
I’m trying to get to the bottom of this, and wouldn’t go over my 4.5 without proper break, but these appear to be abnormal circumstances…I don’t think I’ve gone over 4.5 for in-scope driving.
I nearly worked today again, but didn’t get to the phone in time yesterday.
Well I got fleeced at a local dealer for 3 printer rolls (18 yoyos), but now I have looked at the local regs I can only see reference to the employer’s obligation to provide it
