malenki22:
monday 9.5 h drivetuesday 9.20 h drive
The above is classed as 2 X 10 hour driving days - the max allowed in any fixed week (mon 0000 to sun 2400)
wednesday - as soon as it gets to 9 hours driving STOP.
2 choices -
If got other work hours left then they can bring out a car and do a swap
Daily rest for at least 9 hours (if available) before restarting - rest in cab if it proper sleeping facilities or it’s a B&B or hotel etc
how many work hours during one week your allowed I know driving is 90h with in 2 weeks and I think is 15h per day as working H including Driving■■? oh Im getting thinks wrong now■■?
Sorry for asking so many question just I’m newly passed and I have to get all this things to my head before I get done by LAW, I allready made mistake witch could cost me my license on monday when driving for 4.50min with out a break just wonder for how long they can see this on my tacho when they will stop me and what is the fine 
oh what other car could I drive back can’t be a truck right■■?
Work hours = max 60 in any one week but only 48 average over 17 weeks - breaks and POA do not count as work - just driving & other work.
90 hours max driving in any 2 consecutive weeks - max 56 in any one week.
Any 2 consecutive weeks means week one & week two - week two & week three - week three & week four …etc etc - it does not go week one and week two and then reset
thanks for all your help but can you answer the question about this 4.50h driving with out break then finish my shift, how long the police can see this on my tacho and what they could do to me for it When I started I was thinking is easy but is not but I’m going back to work on monday night so hopping that I will have better week 
you will need to make a manual entry as to WHY you went 20 mins over.
Just to add that under the Working Time Regs you must take 30 mins break after a maximum of 6 hours ■■■■■■■■■■ working time even if you haven’t reached 4.5 hours driving time. Likewise, 45 mins break must be taken after max of 9 hours work. Juggling the 2 sets of rules can be a pain sometimes, but remember that the break requirements of the EU Drivers hours Regulations take precedence when driving even though both sets of regulations still apply.
On the subject of POA v break, it can cause problems using break instead of POA because each time you have 45 or more mins break you effectively wipe the slate clean ready for another 4.5 hours driving (up to daily max or 9 or 10).
It’s also worth bearing in mind that it’s illegal to do ANY work whilst on break. Many drivers who assist in the loading and unloading of their vehicle whilst on break are risking prosecution if they are subsequently involved in an accident and investigations show that proper breaks had not been taken. Remember…tiredness is a major cause of RTA’s especially at night and for shift workers.
Chris DB:
Just to add that under the Working Time Regs you must take 30 mins break after a maximum of 6 hours ■■■■■■■■■■ working time even if you haven’t reached 4.5 hours driving time
15 mins not 30 
ROG:
Chris DB:
Just to add that under the Working Time Regs you must take 30 mins break after a maximum of 6 hours ■■■■■■■■■■ working time even if you haven’t reached 4.5 hours driving time15 mins not 30
I stand corrected Rog. 
15 mins must be taken after max of 6 hours, the other 15 mins must be taken BEFORE the end of 9 hours ■■■■■■■■■■ working time.
Chris.
so is that mean lets give example:
1.30-4.00 drive
4.00-4.15 other work
4.15-5.15 drive
5.15-6.00 break
6.00-6.30 other work
6.30-7.30 drive
then after 7.30 I have to take 15 min break due to 6h work or this do not apply as I take break of 45min before that time■■?
What I can get from previouse post that I don’t do anything wrong apart when I get to Rhymney I don’t use POA I just take a break which then allow me to drive for 4.5h
Tacho breaks ALSO count for the RTD (WTD) and RTD breaks count for tacho but just make sure that if they are split breaks the tacho regs rules are adhered to - 15 mins then 30 mins
That 45 min break you took will do for a shift of over 9 hours for the RTD providing the 6 hour rule is not broken -
example - you cannot do work/drive for 2 hours, take 45 min break and then work/drive for 7 hours as the 8 hours breaks the 6 hour RTD rule
all this is just to much for me 
Let me write down the route and tell me if is wrong:
1.30-4.00 drive (to bristol)
4.00-4.30 other work ( undloading at Bristol)
4.30-5.15 drive (drive to Newport)
5.15-6.00 break (break at Newport)
6.00-6.30 other work (unloading at newport)
6.30-7.45 drive (drive to Rhymney)
7.45-8.30 break (break at Rhymney)
8.30-9.00 POA ( waiting at Rhymney till they open)
9.00-9.05 other work (loading at Rhymney it only take max 5 min)
9.05-13.25 drive (drive back to Laighton)
then finish in yard
That’s what looks like my day so just wonder if there is any problem with this■■?
malenki22:
1.30-4.00 drive (to bristol)
4.00-4.30 other work ( undloading at Bristol)
4.30-5.15 drive (drive to Newport)
5.15-6.00 break (break at Newport)
6.00-6.30 other work (unloading at newport)
6.30-7.45 drive (drive to Rhymney)
7.45-8.30 break (break at Rhymney)
8.30-9.00 POA ( waiting at Rhymney till they open)
9.00-9.05 other work (loading at Rhymney it only take max 5 min)
9.05-13.25 drive (drive back to Laighton)
then finish in yard
TOTALS for shift =
Driving 8 hours 50 mins
Other work 1 hour 5 mins
POA 30 mins
Break 1 hour 30 mins
RTD 9 hours 55 mins
You have one problem if this is done 5 times a week, every week and that is the RTD as it takes you to nearly 50 hours a week and the AVERAGE over 17 (or 26) weeks needs to be no more than 48 hours.
Last week done this run 4 time’s but i don’t know what will happen this week as I work for agancy so I wait and see but apart from RTD everything else is ok.
I think now I get all this things and thanks for all your time and help
Chris DB:
ROG:
Chris DB:
Just to add that under the Working Time Regs you must take 30 mins break after a maximum of 6 hours ■■■■■■■■■■ working time even if you haven’t reached 4.5 hours driving time15 mins not 30
I stand corrected Rog.
Not correct, the second 15 minutes does not have to be taken before the end of 9 hours working time. The second part of the break doesn’t need to be taken until 6 hours work is accumulated from the end of the first break or before the end of the shift, whichever comes first. There is nothing in the regulations about taking a break at the 9 hour work point.
Coffeeholic:
Chris DB:
ROG:
Chris DB:
Just to add that under the Working Time Regs you must take 30 mins break after a maximum of 6 hours ■■■■■■■■■■ working time even if you haven’t reached 4.5 hours driving time15 mins not 30
I stand corrected Rog.
Not correct, the second 15 minutes does not have to be taken before the end of 9 hours working time. The second part of the break doesn’t need to be taken until 6 hours work is accumulated from the end of the first break or before the end of the shift, whichever comes first. There is nothing in the regulations about taking a break at the 9 hour work point.
On studying the regs again I stand by my corrected (by Rog) statement. Where are you Rog? We need your expertise.
15 minutes break must be taken after max of 6 hours work, the other 15 mins break must be taken BEFORE the end of 9 ■■■■■■■■■■ working hours.
The Regulations require that:
The guidance notes on the DfT website give examples showing what is legal and what is not.
The first question is - HOW LONG IS THE TOTAL OF WORKING HOURS?
Once the answer to the above is known then CHOOSE EITHER-
A) * if your working hours total between 6 and 9 hours, working time should be interrupted by a break or breaks totalling at least 30 minutes,
OR
B) * if your working hours total more than 9 hours, working time should be interrupted by a break or breaks totalling at least 45 minutes,
BUT NOT BOTH
I intially made the mistake of thinking that BOTH were used at the same time but was then asked - “how can a shift be both? - it is either a shift totalling work hours of under 9 hours or over 9 hours”
Chris DB:
Coffeeholic:
Not correct, the second 15 minutes does not have to be taken before the end of 9 hours working time. The second part of the break doesn’t need to be taken until 6 hours work is accumulated from the end of the first break or before the end of the shift, whichever comes first. There is nothing in the regulations about taking a break at the 9 hour work point.On studying the regs again I stand by my corrected (by Rog) statement. Where are you Rog? We need your expertise.
15 minutes break must be taken after max of 6 hours work, the other 15 mins break must be taken BEFORE the end of 9 ■■■■■■■■■■ working hours.
Where does it say that in the regulations? You’ve quoted them below yet apparently not read the bit your quoting as it says nothing about a break at 9 hours.
Chris DB:
The Regulations require that:
- mobile workers must not work more than 6 consecutive hours without taking a break,
- if your working hours total between 6 and 9 hours, working time should be interrupted by a break or breaks totalling at least 30 minutes,
- if your working hours total more than 9 hours, working time should be interrupted by a break or breaks totalling at least 45 minutes,
- breaks should be of at least 15 minutes duration.
You apply either point 2 or point 3 depending on the number of work hours in your shift, you don’t apply both of them. So, if your work hours will total more then 9 then you ignore point 2 and use the criteria in point 3.
Chris DB:
The guidance notes on the DfT website give examples showing what is legal and what is not.
Indeed they do, yet nowhere do they say you need a break at 9 hours work.
If you are working more than 9 hours and you take 15 minutes after 6 hours work then the second part of the break is not required until 12 hours of work are accumulated, or the just before the end of the shift, whichever comes first.
Coffeeholic:
Chris DB:
Coffeeholic:
Not correct, the second 15 minutes does not have to be taken before the end of 9 hours working time. The second part of the break doesn’t need to be taken until 6 hours work is accumulated from the end of the first break or before the end of the shift, whichever comes first. There is nothing in the regulations about taking a break at the 9 hour work point.On studying the regs again I stand by my corrected (by Rog) statement. Where are you Rog? We need your expertise.
15 minutes break must be taken after max of 6 hours work, the other 15 mins break must be taken BEFORE the end of 9 ■■■■■■■■■■ working hours.Where does it say that in the regulations? You’ve quoted them below yet apparently not read the bit your quoting as it says nothing about a break at 9 hours.
Chris DB:
The Regulations require that:
- mobile workers must not work more than 6 consecutive hours without taking a break,
- if your working hours total between 6 and 9 hours, working time should be interrupted by a break or breaks totalling at least 30 minutes,
- if your working hours total more than 9 hours, working time should be interrupted by a break or breaks totalling at least 45 minutes,
- breaks should be of at least 15 minutes duration.
You apply either point 2 or point 3 depending on the number of work hours in your shift, you don’t apply both of them. So, if your work hours will total more then 9 then you ignore point 2 and use the criteria in point 3.
Chris DB:
The guidance notes on the DfT website give examples showing what is legal and what is not.Indeed they do, yet nowhere do they say you need a break at 9 hours work.
If you are working more than 9 hours and you take 15 minutes after 6 hours work then the second part of the break is not required until 12 hours of work are accumulated, or the just before the end of the shift, whichever comes first.
Sorry Coffeeholic, but I suggest that you have been selectively reading the guidance notes. Nowhere does it say apply EITHER point 2 OR point 3.
Also it DOES state after making the 4 said points…
“In the interest of safety, and as a matter of good practice, it is strongly recommended that breaks should be distributed evenly throughout the shift”.
Chris.
Chris DB:
Sorry Coffeeholic, but I suggest that you have been selectively reading the guidance notes. Nowhere does it say apply EITHER point 2 OR point 3.
Err, it does by the use of the word ‘if’ at the beginning of each point. In simple terms that means if your shift meets the criteria of point 2 then you apply those criteria and therefore if it doesn’t you don’t, and you move on to point 3. It couldn’t be any clearer. 
I haven’t been selectively reading the guidence notes, whatever the hell they are. I have simply read, and understood, the WTD regs.
Chris DB:
Also it DOES state after making the 4 said points…“In the interest of safety, and as a matter of good practice, it is strongly recommended that breaks should be distributed evenly throughout the shift”.
Chris.
Indeed it does, and it is a good recommendation, However it is just that, a recommendation, and not the actual regulations. Same as with the tacho rules where it is possible to drive 8 hours and 59 minutes with just a 30 minute break, legally possible but not advisable.
ROG:
TOTALS for shift =
Driving 8 hours 50 mins
Other work 1 hour 5 mins
POA 30 mins
Break 1 hour 30 mins
RTD 9 hours 55 mins
I have to ask, what’s the “RTD 9 hours 55 mins” 