Dear VOSA

[biggusdickusgb]

limeyphil:
It’s idiots like me who push on a little bit to find a decent place to park then sign the tacho with a reason.

you’re definately using the correct word to describe yourself here,
why cant you pull up short and park up?
why go to the limit and over?
you can only overrun your time due to unforseen incidents, ie major accident where the road has been shut for a long time and you were stuck in it, not because you fancy cafe B rather than cafe A.

if you’re signing the card regular then ms bell is going to get you eventually.
or is that whats already happened?

you aren’t one of the smart ones who think they can continually overrun their hours and sign on the back " for safe parking" and then ■■■■■ about it when they get fined, are you?

[greg]

peteandbrenda:
have i lost the plot ? but i cant remember what this thread was about, when i started reading it. it’s seem to of turned into a rant about anything but what the original post ask or said!!! IS IT ME■■?

Its about Ms Bell allegedly being responsible for anything that a truck driver comes into contact with, (RDC’s MSA etc) and not just the things that shes actually responsible for.

[davey_driver]

Next we’ll be hearing about how Beverley is responsible for the polution in the atmosphere, the pot holes in the road and the price of tolls

I completely understand the points being made and I know the Transport Industry is in deep ■■■ ■■■ but at the end of the day, you cannot blame a commissioner because Tesco’s or Asda RDC’s make drivers wait without facilities.

The Commissioners are there to ensure the letter of the law is adhered to, if any driver is prepared to sit at an RDC without having the common sense of contacting his office when he knows he only has 1 hr remaining to try and get things moving, he only has himself to blame.

I arrived at Morrisons Stockton at 5.35 am knowing full well I was out of time at 9am as soon as I was told by Morrisons that I would not be tipped until 8.30 I informed the Transport Office I would not have time to get back, there answer was quite simple.

Pull Out and let Morrisons wait for the goods, it’s called communication, if you aint prepared to communicate then you’ve only got yourself to blame, you cant blame the commissioners just because you did not have enough time to tip.

Whenever I went to Spalding (Night Shift) and they gave me a Morrisons Stockton after that incident, it simply went straight back to the yard for the day shift to deliver it, that is using common sense, not arriving at a delivery point in the full knowledge you are going to be out of time whilst sitting there and not doing anything about it.

[owner_drivers]

Limestone Cowboy:
The RDC’s that you mention have absolutely nothing to do with VOSA or Traffic Commissioners. These are private companies who answer to shareholders. The haulage industry as a united group are the only ones who can sort this out by giving back to the RDC’s as much crap as is dished out to them.

I received complaints through my website about one particular RDC for very similar inhumane reasons - I contacted them with a list of complaints that I had received. I did not get a reply, but i did get reports that toilets became suddenly available, canteens were no longer off limits etc.

Maybe if Trucknet put together a suitable note to some of the companies that run RDC’s and ask those that run them to stop by the Bulletin board every now and then to see what is being posted about them, then they might take note.

If anyone has the contact details for the managers of the rdc’s, then they should share them with Trucknet…

[wheel_nut]

Owner Drivers:

Limestone Cowboy:
If anyone has the contact details for the managers of the rdc’s, then they should share them with Trucknet…

Barry Tozer meets with them regularly

[kenny1975]

At first the complaints sound like insanity and just a rant about VOSA.

Everyone is quick to put Limey and Greg down, when i first read their posts i thought nutters lol

But then when i thought about it they do have a point.

I’ve done a run where i go into a place to get tipped at 10hours into the shift, typical time to get tipped in this place is 2 hours max, leaving me 3 hours to drive 40mins back to my depot.

One day i go to this place they take my keys off me put me on a bay, i’m left there for 3hours start to ask questions, sorry having problems today, ok but i need to watch my time. 3hrs 30mins start to think wtf is going on, truck still not unloaded, ask again don’t worry, i call up my boss he says well see if you can leave the trailer. Get told no chance, don’t have a shunter or the room to move it. I say well have to abandon the delivery then. No can’t do that either we are half way through. I say well after 15 hours i.e. 1hr 30mins i can’t drive anymore, get told well you will have to get truck out of the yard whither its over 15hour or not becausethe yard will be locked up all weekend.

Luckly for me, my boss held a class 1 licence but doesent drive normally, so he came down and swaped over with me. So i didnt go over my hours.

In the end they finished unloading the truck at what would have been 16.5 hours over a shift. Means legally i can’t drive. Ok you say well you can just get out the yard find a place to park. This is right in the south side of Glasgow, nowhere locally to park, parking restrictions and even if there wasn’t dangerous area to consider parking up in. So talking about 30min drive at least to find a suitable safe legal place to park.

Thats only because i,m local know the area if you don’t know the area could be driving about for an hour to find a place. If you’ve come from down south, and unlike me can’t get someone to come take over your shift. Your talking about running 17.5 hour shift on your tachograph, doesent look very good and could cause serious problems with VOSA, it’s not a slight bit over time especially if you are involved in an accident.

Or other option is to put in another card if its analalogue and there your talking about a world of trouble if you are caught doing that.

Yeah i know your all saying yeah but its not VOSA responsability its a private company. Yeah your right but on the other hand lets be honest a lot of these companies don’t give a monkeys that a driver from another company is now over his hours and breaking the law. Maybe its time these companies were held legally responsable.

So maybe it is time for somthing like the Australian thing mentioned chain of responsability. Maybe the RDC’s should have to give you a maxium amount of time to unload you, so that you can know if you will be legal by the time you are unloaded and if they fail to meet this time they are required by law to offer you parking on site to stay legal.

Yeah i know it will never happen, but they are right we have the legal responsabilities on our shoulders, which is fine and fair enough when we have some control over the situation but some places take that control out our hands.

[biggusdickusgb]

Kenny1975:
At first the complaints sound like insanity and just a rant about VOSA.

Everyone is quick to put Limey and Greg down, when i first read their posts i thought nutters lol

But then when i thought about it they do have a point.

I’ve done a run where i go into a place to get tipped at 10hours into the shift, typical time to get tipped in this place is 2 hours max, leaving me 3 hours to drive 40mins back to my depot.

One day i go to this place they take my keys off me put me on a bay, i’m left there for 3hours start to ask questions, sorry having problems today, ok but i need to watch my time. 3hrs 30mins start to think wtf is going on, truck still not unloaded, ask again don’t worry, i call up my boss he says well see if you can leave the trailer. Get told no chance, don’t have a shunter or the room to move it. I say well have to abandon the delivery then. No can’t do that either we are half way through. I say well after 15 hours i.e. 1hr 30mins i can’t drive anymore, get told well you will have to get truck out of the yard whither its over 15hour or not becausethe yard will be locked up all weekend.

Luckly for me, my boss held a class 1 licence but doesent drive normally, so he came down and swaped over with me. So i didnt go over my hours.

In the end they finished unloading the truck at what would have been 16.5 hours over a shift. Means legally i can’t drive. Ok you say well you can just get out the yard find a place to park. This is right in the south side of Glasgow, nowhere locally to park, parking restrictions and even if there wasn’t dangerous area to consider parking up in. So talking about 30min drive at least to find a suitable safe legal place to park.

Thats only because i,m local know the area if you don’t know the area could be driving about for an hour to find a place. If you’ve come from down south, and unlike me can’t get someone to come take over your shift. Your talking about running 17.5 hour shift on your tachograph, doesent look very good and could cause serious problems with VOSA, it’s not a slight bit over time especially if you are involved in an accident.

Or other option is to put in another card if its analalogue and there your talking about a world of trouble if you are caught doing that.

Yeah i know your all saying yeah but its not VOSA responsability its a private company. Yeah your right but on the other hand lets be honest a lot of these companies don’t give a monkeys that a driver from another company is now over his hours and breaking the law. Maybe its time these companies were held legally responsable.

So maybe it is time for somthing like the Australian thing mentioned chain of responsability. Maybe the RDC’s should have to give you a maxium amount of time to unload you, so that you can know if you will be legal by the time you are unloaded and if they fail to meet this time they are required by law to offer you parking on site to stay legal.

Yeah i know it will never happen, but they are right we have the legal responsabilities on our shoulders, which is fine and fair enough when we have some control over the situation but some places take that control out our hands.

they dont take control out of your hands, you cede control to them them.
you have total control over the situation.
in your case your boss was close at hand, had you been farther away you just get your keys and leave.
as long as you’ve told them what your cut off time is, it’s down to them to get their goods off the wagon, its not your problem if you’re only half tipped, if they couldn’t unload you in the time allowed they shouldn’t have started.
these firms don’t give a toss about drivers because most will just sit there and take the crap.
the more drivers that pull out, the less they’ll hold drivers up

[davey_driver]

biggusdickusgb:
they dont take control out of your hands, you cede control to them them.
you have total control over the situation.
in your case your boss was close at hand, had you been farther away you just get your keys and leave.
as long as you’ve told them what your cut off time is, it’s down to them to get their goods off the wagon, its not your problem if you’re only half tipped, if they couldn’t unload you in the time allowed they shouldn’t have started.
these firms don’t give a toss about drivers because most will just sit there and take the crap.
the more drivers that pull out, the less they’ll hold drivers up

Well Said

[owner_drivers]

We are quite happy to pull out of an RDC becuse we get paid more to take the goods back to the depot. And then get paid again to take them back again.
Strangely they usually get tipped a lot quicker on the seconf attempt

[owner_drivers]

One place my hubby used to go to were famous for taking for ever.
One day he took along a folding chair and got it out with his paper and sat at the side of the truck. When they asked what he was doing he said he was having a well deserved rest and he wanted to watch them working…
They soon got rid of him !!!

[limeyphil]

At no point on here did i mention about continuously going over my hours and signing my card with an excuse. I said i will go over my hours to find a decent place to park. If i park in a quiet place and get a good nights kip isn’t that better than parking up in a layby with vehicles zooming past all night.
You who say that i should have parked up earlier are talking the same rubbish Beverley Bell would say.
How many decent parking areas are there on the A59 or A34 etc that are quiet?
Not many.
So if traffic commisioners want to preach the law to us then they should make it so we can abide by them.
If they got some TC’s in who had done some tramping or got some advisors that had done the job then i would and you would be able to do your job 100% legal.
I suppose some of you will think i’m talking rubbish and i don’t know a thing about haulage.
Go back to your day job.

Does anyone on here know where i can find out what Beverley Bell is actualy responsible for?

I’m not a nutter but i believe, Those who are empowered to uphold the law have a duty to make sure it can be adhered to.

I’m glad some of you are starting to read into my comments a little deeper than others. I know they can look a little controversial at first, But they make sense to those who have an IQ higher than zero.

[kenny1975]

Davey Driver:

biggusdickusgb:
they dont take control out of your hands, you cede control to them them.
you have total control over the situation.
in your case your boss was close at hand, had you been farther away you just get your keys and leave.
as long as you’ve told them what your cut off time is, it’s down to them to get their goods off the wagon, its not your problem if you’re only half tipped, if they couldn’t unload you in the time allowed they shouldn’t have started.
these firms don’t give a toss about drivers because most will just sit there and take the crap.
the more drivers that pull out, the less they’ll hold drivers up

Well Said

Not quite, its no where near as simple as that.

Maybe if you work for a larger company or a company with a decent profit margin they can aford to do that or if your doing a localish delivery.

If your a O/D or small company with a few trucks and you have done a delivery the length of the country you think its as simple as pulling off the bay and driving it 400 miles back up the road. Then hoping in a few months you will get compensated for it.

Plus not to mention the fact if you don’t get everything off your trailer, your screwed because you can’t fullfill the contract you have to go pick up another delivery and bring it back up the road the next day.

So you risk loads of messing about trying to get compensation, spend silly amounts in diesel to bring this load back to your depot, plus also loose out on the job you should be doing the next day.

Back to my post about my keys i told them would need to stop unloading let me go, they refused said stuff needed to come off, also refused to give me my keys back. Ok could have taken control of the situation, could have chucked a chair through the office window, jumped through it grabbed my keys, drove through the security gate and been offski, My boss was also on the phone to them and kept on getting hit with we will have this stuff off in 10mins BS.

Ok could have called the police for not giving my keys back but knowing strathclyde police would have been waiting a long time.

Things are def not just as simple as you make out.

[davey_driver]

Kenny1975:
Not quite, its no where near as simple as that…

Errrrmmmm Yes it is !!!

Kenny1975:
If your a O/D or small company with a few trucks and you have done a delivery the length of the country you think its as simple as pulling off the bay and driving it 400 miles back up the road. Then hoping in a few months you will get compensated for it…

You as the Driver are responsible for adhering to the law, if you are prepared to break the law then be prepared to accept the consequences. YOU know how much time you have got, YOU have the responsibility of advising the customer you are running out of Time, YOU have the right to call YOUR boss and advise him you are running out of time and get him to get things moving, If he does not stand by you then he aint worth working for, if he is prepared to let you break the law.

Kenny1975:
Plus not to mention the fact if you don’t get everything off your trailer, your screwed because you can’t fullfill the contract you have to go pick up another delivery and bring it back up the road the next day…

So does that mean the World has just ended■■? Your the Driver, It’s not your Problem, it’s the boss who needs to get it sorted.

Kenny1975:
So you risk loads of messing about trying to get compensation, spend silly amounts in diesel to bring this load back to your depot, plus also loose out on the job you should be doing the next day…

It’s not your Problem, If your boss has not bothered trying to get things sorted whilst your waiting to be tipped, then it’s down to his own stupidity.

Kenny1975:
Back to my post about my keys i told them would need to stop unloading let me go, they refused said stuff needed to come off, also refused to give me my keys back. Ok could have taken control of the situation, could have chucked a chair through the office window, jumped through it grabbed my keys, drove through the security gate and been offski, My boss was also on the phone to them and kept on getting hit with we will have this stuff off in 10mins BS…

Why get Violent■■? Simply get into your cab and draw the curtains, you gave them plenty of warning, and if they insist on making a noise to disturb you, simply take 11 hrs instead of 9 hrs

Kenny1975:
Ok could have called the police for not giving my keys back but knowing strathclyde police would have been waiting a long time.

Things are def not just as simple as you make out.

Tell them you’ve gotta Gun they will sharp turn up

If your prepared to let your boss or anyone else walk over you then you only have yourself to blame for these situations arising.

[kenny1975]

Your right it isnt my problem.

But maybe that is a problem. As i said its ok if you work for a large company where they can pee money away, run at a loss.

But being more pragmatic if you work for smaller companies somthing that costs the company money especially in this economic climate is not good for work prospects in the future.

So yeah when it comes down to it, it isnt my problem if i ended up parked up with a trailer full of frozen food and can’t do my pickup the next day and the company looses that work. but then again it becomes my problem if the boss says sorry have to let you go because we can’t afford to keep you on. Or if you turn up at work and find the gates locked and find the company has gone under and your owed wages which you will never see.

I don’t let the boss walk all over me, never have. But i have the common sense to realise situations where the company looses money is not good for me in the long term.

As for doing somthing illegal i agree with you, its not a risk worth taking and one i wouldn’t i go to work to make money not risk loosing my licence or a large fine that isnt part of the plan.

As for parking up and sitting on the bay, if you read my post you would see the gates would be locked and i would be stuck in there all weekend, with no food or drink and no entertainment sounds a good plan.

Tell them i’ve got a gun, still take Strathclyde Police over an hour to turn up, as it did when my mate got a gun shoved in his face when he worked in a shop in Glasgow.

[davey_driver]

Kenny I fully understand what your saying BUT

You arrive at a place with 3 hrs left on your card, after 1 hr I’d be getting on the phone to the boss to advise him your down to 2 hrs and nothings happenning, remember it’s his truck, his load, his profits thats going to be affected if your not tipped.

Any boss with an ounce of sense would call the RDC or customer and advise them that the vehicle must be out within the next hour otherwise THEY will be charged for the loss of work lined up for that vehicle.

It’s not rocket science to get the boss involved, if he is not prepared to put pressure on the customer then he only has himself to blame.

You then have 2 options, Pull out or Stay and break the law, Vosa certainly would not back your boss on the 2nd option, nor would they back you.

But what you have to ask yourself is, Would your boss back you if you opted for option 2? Would he pay your loss of earnings if your licence is revoked? Would he pay your wages whilst you found another Job? Would he pay the wages of the other drivers whilst his O Licence is revoked?

Or of course, would he rather just lose 2 days work for a truck instead of his O Licence?

Drivers who try to blame everyone else for their problems are oblivious to the fact that they are 100 % responsible for their own actions. It’s a tough world we live in, but it’s a tougher life in the Transport Industry, either way the driver cannot win the argument, and therefore should accept point blank that by being in the wrong doing the job legally is much better than being in the wrong by doing the job illegally.

The Commissioners cannot be held responsible for lack of parking or lack of facilities, that is the MP’s who must sort it out with local councillors, but as nobody seems bothered about lobbying them they dont bother.

Here in Gateshead I have Lobbied My local MP who is keeping in touch about Parking Issues since Birtley Truck Stop Closed, making sure that the Tyne Wear Partnership discuss the matter of Truck Parking at their next meeting, will anything be done■■?

Who knows, but it’s certainly a step further than had I not raised the issue in the first place.

On the Other Hand it is being discussed somewhere as I recieved a call off BBC Radio 4 yesterday for my views on the problem with a lack of truckstops for a program going out later this week. They wanted to know what problems drivers are facing and problems with truckers having Loads & Fuel stolen on the A14 and being forced into residential areas for parking with a lack of facilities such as toilets etc. Also wanting someone to explain about driving limits to put joe public in the picture of why they end up running out of time.

It’s not much, but it’s a start

[wheel_nut]

willie_mac:
What ever happened to harging demurrage, its legal and would have an effect on turnaround times if the RDC`s had to pay it

I wonder how many firms dare charge Demurrage. It was always a big thing with us on the tankers. our boss would be forever chasing for the notes and woe betide you if you had forgotten to get a signature.

Does anyone do it now?

I have had many nose to nose confrontations with a plant manager because he was reluctant to sign my times.

I cant remember many who didnt sign them eventually

[renaultman]

Wheel Nut:

willie_mac:
What ever happened to harging demurrage, its legal and would have an effect on turnaround times if the RDC`s had to pay it

I wonder how many firms dare charge Demurrage. It was always a big thing with us on the tankers. our boss would be forever chasing for the notes and woe betide you if you had forgotten to get a signature.

Does anyone do it now?

I have had many nose to nose confrontations with a plant manager because he was reluctant to sign my times.

I cant remember many who didnt sign them eventually

Our delivery notes have arrival time, and departure time on with
‘We may charge for excessive waiting times’
If I think I’m being messed about, I sometimes find a gaffer and ask him to sign it, so as we can get paid Sometimes works, sometimes doesn’t.

[brit_pete]

WE getpaid Demmurage and it ends up beinging
quite a large sum, When you muliply it by 250
lorries X365days in year, all part of a days work