DCPC....What Needs to be Done?

UK PROFESSIONAL DRIVERS FORUMS THE UK PROFESSIONAL DRIVERS FORUM (INTERACTIVE)
1

At the risk of upsetting those of you who think they know it all; I’m not convinced that actually scrapping DCPC altogether is a good idea.

The most convincing proof of this is in the number of questions on this forum, often from seasoned drivers, pertaining to the most basic of drivers’ hours issues, many of which should be second nature to an experienced man. That the questions often come from so-called “experienced” individuals tells me that they either didn’t pay attention to their instructors, or they’ve picked up duff information from other drivers and got into bad habits. Which means that regular re-education is necessary.

Having said that; I also think that the current set-up is flawed, basically because it relies on the number of hours of classroom work undertaken to form a qualification, rather than the quality of the content. In other words; the same amount of learning could be condensed into a shorter period. I’m sure most of us would agree that a large part of any given DCPC course, outside of such things as ADR, is padded out with superfluous stuff simply to fill the seven hours of training mandated by law.

To speed up the flow of both new recruits and returning experienced drivers, my suggestion would be to make a one day course mainly dealing with drivers’ hours legislation and the use of tachographs mandatory. If you don’t do that, you don’t get your card. I would like to see dummy tachographs used in classroom tuition so that drivers could learn how to do such things as manual entries and printouts correctly; the correct way to do the necessary printouts in the event of tacho failure or card fault, and any other ESSENTIAL stuff which pertains to normal day-to-day UK driving. This would have the added benefit of weeding out those companies in the training business who are just in it for the money. If our bosses have to invest in kit, so should they, and not rely on ancient videos.

Once that course had been taken, two more days’ training to be undertaken inside twelve months; this to encompass such things as safe loading and manual handling, first aid, etc. I’d like to see more practical hands-on training and less classroom tedium; more scope for employers to offer job-specific courses which enhance their employees skills rather than just tick a DVSA box. There is no more point in dustcart drivers doing a tacho course than there is me doing one on different dustbin colours. Finally, a one day refresher course every two years, half of which to cover tachos and drivers hours, because that seems to be the one thing drivers have most trouble remembering, and it’s also the one thing which potentially can cost them and their employers a whole heap of money.

Your comments please. Scrap it altogether is not an option; like it or not we are supposed to be professionals (or so we think0 and every day should be a school day for a good driver.

2

It needs to be practical I think.
5 days in a classroom is not indicative of what we actually do.
It needs to be a mixture of both classroom based and either on the road or on the site training.
For example, I am sure there is a DCPC module on securing loads somewhere. Why can they not be delivered on site with people actually strapping loads using a variety of different methods?

For example for newbies who just pass their test they have to take a practical test for their first 5 years of CPC accreditation. I think this is a good example of good on site training that can be applied to current CPC training.
Check out the video of it.
youtube.com/watch?v=DEKaD7SCoc0
youtube.com/watch?v=JFzameqSywY

I can bet a lot of drivers have no idea how to use metal chains to secure loads or even how to use ratchet straps correctly. The same applies for using a Tachograph. Get a vehicle with a tacho and make people actually do manual entries.

3

The CPC in theory was a good idea, it’s just in practice that it’s been ballsed up.
The most common CPC modules going (drivers hours, tacho, health & safety etc) can be good for newbies to the industry, but aren’t much use to those of us who have been around a while, as the information hardly changes.
This is one reason why ADR courses have become more popular and common over the last several years, because there are some drivers who, whether it’s because they’re bored of the same old courses, or because they want to get something productive in return for their time, are choosing to do ADR instead of CPC.
I think a lot more variety of courses should be available, and that companies should be able to do courses that are more specific to their work, in order to help their drivers more. The reasons why this isn’t currently done is because they would have to get not only the instructors approved, but also the courses. This will cost several hundred pounds per course per year, in addition to the time and effort to write and develop the course and any additional materials to go along with it.
There are signs that thise in charge of CPC are looking to make improvements, such as not allowing the same module to be repeated within the same 5 year window, but more changes need to be made, and in my opinion, one of the best ways to do this would be to drastically increase the range of course modules on offer.
The issue with practical courses is one of time. Each person on a course is meant to receive 7 hours of training. If an instructor is showing you how to strap a load and getting you to do it, they aren’t giving time to anyone else, so they then have to give that time to each other person on the course. This would either mean limiting numbers on the course, which limits the income of the course providers, so they won’t want to do that, or making the day longer to make sure each person gets the required length of training time

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4

Terry Cooksey:
…There are signs that thise in charge of CPC are looking to make improvements, such as not allowing the same module to be repeated within the same 5 year window,…

“Taking the same course more than once:
You can only take the same course more than once in each 5-year period if you have a good reason to repeat it - for example, maintaining a dangerous goods qualification.”
Source:
gov.uk/driver-cpc-training/ … ng-courses

5

Don’t scrap it,.as it has been proven to be invaluable in improving the haulage industry.
Just look at how the quality of truck drivers and truck driving has improved since it came out. :bulb:
More courtesy and empathy towards each other on the roads, safer and more competent driving, and very few accidents caused by incompetence.
An essential and vital qualification in this job,.that has brought with it, a much more professional atmosphere.now…
I personally do not know how I did without it for 30 years if I’m honest, so I’m all for keeping it.

Anyhow need to go to bed now as I’ve had a tooth come out and I can’t wait for the tooth fairy to leave me some money,.which will come in handy for Christnas for stuff to buy that Santa doesn’t bring me.

6

ScaniaUltimate:

Terry Cooksey:
…There are signs that thise in charge of CPC are looking to make improvements, such as not allowing the same module to be repeated within the same 5 year window,…

“Taking the same course more than once:
You can only take the same course more than once in each 5-year period if you have a good reason to repeat it - for example, maintaining a dangerous goods qualification.”
Source:
gov.uk/driver-cpc-training/ … ng-courses

Thanks for repeating what I said, that you can’t repeat the same module.
Obviously, something like refreshing an ADR certificate falls outside of those rules, seeing as it lasts 5 years but can be refreshed within the last 12 months of validity. So can someone clearly failing to grasp a particular subject, for example someone repeatedly getting infringements for WTD or drivers hours even after completing the relevant module.
I just didn’t bother mentioning that as I thought most people would realise that fact.

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7

Unfortunately, Terry, there are a few drivers who’d still get infringements if they had to repeat the DCPC tacho course monthly.

Robroy. I get where you’re coming from mate; and I very much doubt you’re a lone voice. However, my guess is that we are going to be stuck with it whether we like it or not. Hence my quest for suggestions for improvement And sorry, if you can honestly tell me that throughout all the CPC courses you have done, you haven’t learned something new, or found out that something you’d been doing for years was in fact the wrong way to do it, then I salute you… the perfect driver! :smiley:

8

Sidevalve:
Unfortunately, Terry, there are a few drivers who’d still get infringements if they had to repeat the DCPC tacho course monthly.

Robroy. I get where you’re coming from mate; and I very much doubt you’re a lone voice. However, my guess is that we are going to be stuck with it whether we like it or not. Hence my quest for suggestions for improvement And sorry, if you can honestly tell me that throughout all the CPC courses you have done, you haven’t learned something new, or found out that something you’d been doing for years was in fact the wrong way to do it, then I salute you… the perfect driver! :smiley:

No I ain’t the perfect driver by any means, so no need for the salute.
One course would be ok, but the same crap every 5 years? really?
The only thing I can say I loosely ‘enjoyed’ was the first aid,.and that was only because the instructor was fit :smiley:
Female I hasten to add. :smiley:

9

robroy:
No I ain’t the perfect driver by any means, so no need for the salute.
One course would be ok, but the same crap every 5 years? really?
The only thing I can say I loosely ‘enjoyed’ was the first aid,.and that was only because the instructor was fit :smiley:
Female I hasten to add. :smiley:

That’s part of the point I was making. At the moment the courses are designed more to fill the requisite 35 hours than to actually educate the drivers. It’s a given that none of us enjoy sitting in classrooms anyway, fit instructors or not; and once the initial training is done, a single course every two years would be perfectly adequate. The only losers of course would be the training industry who’ve got fat on DCPC for very little investment. But since most of them are already qualified HGV drivers, they wouldn’t be short of work!

10

Needs to be made more serious, more in-depth and tested so ultimately it’ll become something worth having. It’s a very worthwhile idea badly implemented. Those calling for its abolition are effectively saying they should be able to work their entire career with no further training. Then on the other breath moan about not being seen and respected as professionals.

11

Terry Cooksey:
The most common CPC modules going (drivers hours, tacho, health & safety etc) can be good for newbies to the industry, but aren’t much use to those of us who have been around a while, as the information hardly changes.

You’d have a point if it weren’t for the fact it’s experienced people, sometimes with more than 20 years experience, who still don’t know the basics of drivers hours, still don’t know how to do a manual entry and still are getting injured doing daft stuff or chucking their loads all over the road.

12

switchlogic:
Needs to be made more serious, more in-depth and tested so ultimately it’ll become something worth having.

Completely agree. Will the government do that though? I doubt the government will be willing to risk losing HGV drivers who cant pass it.
That being said I like the idea has it adds a bit more professionalism by having to sit a test every 5 years.
I believe pilots get periodic testing along with train drivers as well.

13

Conor:

Terry Cooksey:
The most common CPC modules going (drivers hours, tacho, health & safety etc) can be good for newbies to the industry, but aren’t much use to those of us who have been around a while, as the information hardly changes.

You’d have a point if it weren’t for the fact it’s experienced people, sometimes with more than 20 years experience, who still don’t know the basics of drivers hours, still don’t know how to do a manual entry and still are getting injured doing daft stuff or chucking their loads all over the road.

I’m well aware of people like that. The issue with people like that is that they tend not to be teachable, look at the CPC as being a waste of time and think they know it all.

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14

switchlogic:
Needs to be made more serious, more in-depth and tested so ultimately it’ll become something worth having. It’s a very worthwhile idea badly implemented. Those calling for its abolition are effectively saying they should be able to work their entire career with no further training. Then on the other breath moan about not being seen and respected as professionals.

I agree with this as well. Testing will ensure that people on the course are paying attention and have actually picked up some information from the course.
There are a lot of ways the CPC can be improved, but none will be implemented if it means a possible reduction of drivers on the road, which is why testing will probably never come in. Lots of people think they know it all, but, as we see on here on a near daily basis, actual knowledge levels are nowhere near where they should be

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15

Better courses with more specific, personalised, and practical content? Yes.
But no more that a fiver a head please…
You get what you pay for. Be it individuals going for the most basic (cheapest) course, or companies lobbying gov to keep costs down.

16

Franglais:
Better courses with more specific, personalised, and practical content? Yes.
But no more that a fiver a head please…
You get what you pay for. Be it individuals going for the most basic (cheapest) course, or companies lobbying gov to keep costs down.

Totally agree. I am ok with the costs going up to £1000 for every 5 years of DCPC. It’s reasonable if it raises the standards of the hgv drivers. It will also as a result raise the wages.

17

It needs to more relevant to the job you do and 4 hours we all know if they cut all the waffle out 4 hours would be plenty.

18

If its important info then offer the course free - everyone would be happy then.

19

Bin Man:
It needs to more relevant to the job you do and 4 hours we all know if they cut all the waffle out 4 hours would be plenty.

You can already do a half day or 3.5 hrs, so that’s your 4hrs. hrs squeezed into 7hrs.
Remember that the training providers are mainly doing what JAUPT are requiring. A bit more fluid approach by JAUPT could really change things.

20

switchlogic:
Needs to be made more serious, more in-depth and tested so ultimately it’ll become something worth having. It’s a very worthwhile idea badly implemented. Those calling for its abolition are effectively saying they should be able to work their entire career with no further training. Then on the other breath moan about not being seen and respected as professionals.

Thing is Luke you’ve admitted yourself that it is your intention to start an instructor business up, so you’re hardly going to slag it off are you?

I’m all for training, trust me on that, but at grass roots level, during a proper truck driving apprenticeship type scheme, covering all this stuff with an exam…as well as a proper DRIVING course, instead of the present ’ Get around a test route successfully’’ course, but even then they are even dumbing down the driving test …with no reversing ffs!! :open_mouth:
Brilliant idea. :unamused:

As for drivers already in the job,…after the course is complete,.I can not see any point of sitting through whatever the amount of hours are every 5 ■■■■ years, again and again.
A day’s refresher say every 3 years, would be ample, with a test to be done until you pass it, if you don’t pass it take it again (and/or the days course) until you do pass it.

So no I ain’t intent on scrapping it, we can still be as you say ‘considered as a professional’ but by a compromise,.and not as a priority for somebody to make a lot of money out of it. :bulb:

From my own personal pov, way I see it I have done my CPC course, albeit reluctantly, but did it anyway, so unless I am going to go into a new field such as tankers or ADR or some specialised stuff, why tf do I need to sit through it all again.
Sure I admit I did learn a couple of things, (whether I actually NEEDED to know them or actually used them in the job, is arguable,) despite my vast experience (the experience remark is NOT some kind of boast btw, just a plain fact )

It’s a certificate by name of PROFESSIONAL and COMPETENCE…can anybody replicate my first post on here, but in a serious context, rather than tongue firmly in cheek as I did it?
No did’nt think so.
So basically it has NOT worked, the only people it HAS worked for are those who have made a business out of it… end of.

On a side note…just compare this thread with threads 5 or 6 years ago when there was a basic outcry about the CPC where 99% of drivers were against it when it was at the proposal stages.

It’s amazing how attitudes have changed, and how authorities like the Govt can drip feed stuff down to the population in a technique designed where everybody starts to believe stuff. :bulb: :unamused: