I want this DCPC thing to be FREE OF CHARGE,then and only then will i think about what relevant modules i might need to take.
obsessivecompulsive2:
I want this DCPC thing to be FREE OF CHARGE,then and only then will i think about what relevant modules i might need to take.
You could still lose out financially by default because it might mean taking time out when you could be working
Can you fail it.?
neil46:
Can you fail it.?
NO - well, not the periodic - you may not get the hours accreditted in certain situations
Lawrence Dunbar:
Well I wonder where the person or persons that introduced this DCPC, Got there learning from, were they ever involved with the haulage industry at any time, ■■?, As far as Im concerned its just another money making exercise that wont change anything, But of course thats my opinion as a retired Haulage Contractor, Regards Larry.
Well said Larry.
In reply to the thread title!!! Nothing! 
Long distance clara:
After reading the Will you do the DCPC thread it seems some drivers are against the way the DCPC is run.What do you want from a DCPC. We have to do it we know that so dropping it is not an option. So would you be in favour of a pass fail test?
A rule where you cant sit the same module more than once a yesr etc etcThe rules of my game say you cant say scrap it. If you do the fleas of a thousand cammels will infest your arm pits
a. Modules broken down into two hour sessions .
b. On line modules where you can complete a test .
c. Completion of a case study to show you have put some thought into the process .
I’ve been involved in the training sphere and have been looking at the whole DCPC training.
The only conclusion I can draw is that it’s pointless. There is no continuity of quality and seems the whole point of it currently is ‘pay x hundred pounds, sit still get a tick in the box for being in the classroom, then come back every couple of years’.
We deliver online training in a totally unrelated area and the Quality controls in place are far more strenuous than the DCPC, our courses and the area we work in are also such that there is no pass or fail, you keep at it until your assessor deems you competent. That then is checked by a verifier and the whole lot is overseen by an external verifier (from the acreditation body). This is all done at your own pace (you can take virtually as long as you like) at a fraction of the cost of an attendance based course and ultimately leads to a regognised certificate in something tangable that is as valid and relevant to you as it would be taken by someone at the other end of the country.
It would seem currently that someone taking training in a classroom in Cornwall (for example) may not aquire the same knowledge or quality of training as someone in Carlisle.
Why the DCPC cannot be done virtually under proven quality assurance protocols (as approved by many vocational acreditation bodies) is totally beyond me. We as a company have looked into it and dug around a bit and have been stonewalled by the bureaucracy of it all. Several DCPC course providers (I won’t name them) admitted to me the whole thing is pointless, yet they are not willing to challenge it in order to improve things for the better. This only leads me to conclude that they are not primarily interested in training, it’s quality or it’s delivery, merely making money off the back of it.
I also contacted JAUPT, they basically said ‘give us the fee for becoming an approved centre and crack on with it’ (this was prior to us pointing out that we deal with online courses). When we mentioned quality assurances and validity of training delivered, they weren’t that interested.
I am currently drafting an email to the traffic commissioners to find out what their thoughts on the whole lack of consistent verifiable standards are, and whether they agree with the delivery of the DCPC as it currently stands. I will let you know what the response is.
To my mind, although there are some aspects of DCPC that would need practical demonstrations, the bulk of the theory aspects could easily (and cheaply) be delivered in a virtual environment to a much higher and verifiable standard than currently. This could then be conducted whilst sitting in a RDC queue, on a rest break, on a ferry where ever you like for a fraction of the cost of an attendance course.
Of all the education that I have completed in my life, I have been able to question the teaching methods and the delivery methods…At university, we were even allowed to choose the way in which we learnt, as we all learn in marginally different ways.
Whilst studying to become a counsellor, everything was challenged…Now I know this is different education, but the principles are the same.
Every exam and content for each course that I did, was overlloked by a governing body to ensure that I attained an acceptable level and that the course tutors/lecturers, delivered the training to an acceptable level.
From what I can see of this DCPC, it is sadly lacking in all aspects, with no real goal to achieve, no objective goal to achieve and don`t you dare question the trainer.
It is being delivered by amatuers, for amatuers in an amatuerish way…In my opinion that makes it all worthless, useless, but more importantly a waste of time and money for those required to participate.
There is no value in this training for the participant, that is the main problem.
att:
Of all the education that I have completed in my life, I have been able to question the teaching methods and the delivery methods…At university, we were even allowed to choose the way in which we learnt, as we all learn in marginally different ways.
Whilst studying to become a counsellor, everything was challenged…Now I know this is different education, but the principles are the same.Every exam and content for each course that I did, was overlloked by a governing body to ensure that I attained an acceptable level and that the course tutors/lecturers, delivered the training to an acceptable level.
From what I can see of this DCPC, it is sadly lacking in all aspects, with no real goal to achieve, no objective goal to achieve and don`t you dare question the trainer.
It is being delivered by amatuers, for amatuers in an amatuerish way…In my opinion that makes it all worthless, useless, but more importantly a waste of time and money for those required to participate.
There is no value in this training for the participant, that is the main problem.
When i spoke to JAUPT I asked what qualifications are needed to deliver the training, they told me the trainers need no training qualification, only to have experience in the training they are delivering. When I pressed them as to what counted as experience, they couldn’t be clear. When I asked if ‘could someone who has spent only 20 minutes driving a truck around a yard deliver the training’ they skirted around the subject and repeated that if someone has experience in the transport industry, they are happy for them to deliver the training.
It seems strange to me that in order to train an apprentice and for that apprentiship to be valid and recognised, the trainer NEEDS to hold a vocational qualification in training / assessing in the Learning sector. Yet anyone that’s ever had some truck keys in their hand (for whatever reason can deliver DCPC training.
As Att has said, there are many different learner styles and methods of delivery. A qualified trainer will be able to identify the individual needs and tailor the teaching method to accomodate.
Why pay a few hundred quid to sit and watch a death by powerpoint presentation and effectively only walk away having caught up with some sleep, when for the same money (or significantly less) you can get some quality stimulating training that you will be able to gain from? Also if no one is qualified as an assessor, how can anyone guage the validity and relevence of the training delivered?
Again the only logical conclusion is the whole way the training is delivered, the lack of consitency across the board and the lack of any recognised assessment / validity can only be for the purposes of ticking a box whilst achieving maximum profit (for very low investment) of the training companies.
Derf:
att:
Of all the education that I have completed in my life, I have been able to question the teaching methods and the delivery methods…At university, we were even allowed to choose the way in which we learnt, as we all learn in marginally different ways.
Whilst studying to become a counsellor, everything was challenged…Now I know this is different education, but the principles are the same.Every exam and content for each course that I did, was overlloked by a governing body to ensure that I attained an acceptable level and that the course tutors/lecturers, delivered the training to an acceptable level.
From what I can see of this DCPC, it is sadly lacking in all aspects, with no real goal to achieve, no objective goal to achieve and don`t you dare question the trainer.
It is being delivered by amatuers, for amatuers in an amatuerish way…In my opinion that makes it all worthless, useless, but more importantly a waste of time and money for those required to participate.
There is no value in this training for the participant, that is the main problem.
When i spoke to JAUPT I asked what qualifications are needed to deliver the training, they told me the trainers need no training qualification, only to have experience in the training they are delivering. When I pressed them as to what counted as experience, they couldn’t be clear. When I asked if ‘could someone who has spent only 20 minutes driving a truck around a yard deliver the training’ they skirted around the subject and repeated that if someone has experience in the transport industry, they are happy for them to deliver the training.
It seems strange to me that in order to train an apprentice and for that apprentiship to be valid and recognised, the trainer NEEDS to hold a vocational qualification in training / assessing in the Learning sector. Yet anyone that’s ever had some truck keys in their hand (for whatever reason can deliver DCPC training.
As Att has said, there are many different learner styles and methods of delivery. A qualified trainer will be able to identify the individual needs and tailor the teaching method to accomodate.
Why pay a few hundred quid to sit and watch a death by powerpoint presentation and effectively only walk away having caught up with some sleep, when for the same money (or significantly less) you can get some quality stimulating training that you will be able to gain from? Also if no one is qualified as an assessor, how can anyone guage the validity and relevence of the training delivered?Again the only logical conclusion is the whole way the training is delivered, the lack of consitency across the board and the lack of any recognised assessment / validity can only be for the purposes of ticking a box whilst achieving maximum profit (for very low investment) of the training companies.
Indeed, it is actually farcical. I had to train to be a trainer, to deliver couses to students regarding Environmental health for the Chartered Institute, important mudules up to an advanced stage for those wishing to be managers in the food manufacturing industry and in some instances, senior manangers in the catering industry…The DCPC should be shown the same professionalism, as in my opinion, it is no less or more important than what I have done in previous employment/business/industry.
I would go further and say that it is actually offensive to treat drivers this way, as it clearly shows that the Dept. of Transport recognise no value in a driver, their abilities, or their status in the grand scheme of things.
For me to do the training, would actually be demeaning for my psychological and intellectual mind, as I want a credible qualification once completed…As I have gained throughout my life for all the education that I have been involved in.
It is just really insulting to treat one sector of industry in this way…No, it is actually a bloody scandal and someone needs to do something to highlight the poor way in which this is all being executed 
As an aside…Would you imagine the national outcry there would be if our children were taught in this way?
And we are adults!!! And they expect this to be acceptable training!
The main problem is with the DCPC is that it has been left to drivers to fund their own training.
What has followed is an inevitable race to the bottom in terms of price and quality.
How many threads have there been here asking "Where can I get cheap training?’
And how many asking “Who can recommend good-quality training?”
For £45 all you will get is a powerpoint presentation by someone who is probably not as motivated as they might be.
If you want to pay 10 x that then you can get training on a skidpan, using a rollover trailer etc.
It’s virtually a repeat of what happens with catering and facilities for drivers. I know of at least one instance where someone has opened a decent truckstop facility for drivers, only to end up with a salmonella van parked over the road. But guess what: people use the van and get a horrible burger and a rancid coffee for £2.50, where buying something decent over the road would be £10.
I don’t blame drivers for this. If they were paid proper money, none of it would happen. But in both cases it all boils down to there being a captive market with very little money to spend.
GasGas:
The main problem is with the DCPC is that it has been left to drivers to fund their own training.What has followed is an inevitable race to the bottom in terms of price and quality.
How many threads have there been here asking "Where can I get cheap training?’
And how many asking “Who can recommend good-quality training?”For £45 all you will get is a powerpoint presentation by someone who is probably not as motivated as they might be.
If you want to pay 10 x that then you can get training on a skidpan, using a rollover trailer etc.
It’s virtually a repeat of what happens with catering and facilities for drivers. I know of at least one instance where someone has opened a decent truckstop facility for drivers, only to end up with a salmonella van parked over the road. But guess what: people use the van and get a horrible burger and a rancid coffee for £2.50, where buying something decent over the road would be £10.
I don’t blame drivers for this. If they were paid proper money, none of it would happen. But in both cases it all boils down to there being a captive market with very little money to spend.
I must admit you are wrong on that front mate. I do not charge much more and in some cases less than what you have quoted. I would say and my candidates have said that the courses I deliver are great value for money. Why do I charge so little…
I have little overheads and that is passed to you the driver. I can raise the price if you wish 
My style of teaching is NOT death by Powerpoint and involves a lot of class participation. The RTITB courses tend to be death by powerpoint due to them over writing their material. Something like 180 odd slides on the digi tacho alone. If the instructor is not experienced it is easy to just read read and read and forget to involve the group.
I agree with the statement with regards clamping down on the trainers. There should be a minimum of PTLLS required and a track record of experience. I also think that the JAUPT inspectors that come out and do spot visits should also have been a driver.
I would like the rules and regs to be aimed at workers and not designed as if we are training students from a college.
Someone said that they would like to have the hours cut down. This to a degree can be done you can do 3.5hrs in one day and the remaining 3.5hrs must be completed within 24hrs. This means 2 days are interrupted.
When booking your courses do you check what qualifications the instructor has?
Would you complain to JAUPT if you thought your training/trainer was not up to speed?
On the basis of this thread it seems the gripe is not with being trained but the course and some of the instructors. Would this be a fair assessment.
Can I please state again a course at £38.75 does not mean it is a rubbish course likewise a course that is £100 does not mean it is excellent. Some of us are good at our job and need to earn money like YOU but we are not out to rip You off.
Thanks for all the input it is making me see things from a different light. I try to do this at the start of each course but it is hard because the drivers feel they have to say what people expect them to say and the truth does not always come out.
Long distance clara:
GasGas:
The main problem is with the DCPC is that it has been left to drivers to fund their own training.What has followed is an inevitable race to the bottom in terms of price and quality.
How many threads have there been here asking "Where can I get cheap training?’
And how many asking “Who can recommend good-quality training?”For £45 all you will get is a powerpoint presentation by someone who is probably not as motivated as they might be.
If you want to pay 10 x that then you can get training on a skidpan, using a rollover trailer etc.
It’s virtually a repeat of what happens with catering and facilities for drivers. I know of at least one instance where someone has opened a decent truckstop facility for drivers, only to end up with a salmonella van parked over the road. But guess what: people use the van and get a horrible burger and a rancid coffee for £2.50, where buying something decent over the road would be £10.
I don’t blame drivers for this. If they were paid proper money, none of it would happen. But in both cases it all boils down to there being a captive market with very little money to spend.
I must admit you are wrong on that front mate. I do not charge much more and in some cases less than what you have quoted. I would say and my candidates have said that the courses I deliver are great value for money. Why do I charge so little…
I have little overheads and that is passed to you the driver. I can raise the price if you wish
My style of teaching is NOT death by Powerpoint and involves a lot of class participation. The RTITB courses tend to be death by powerpoint due to them over writing their material. Something like 180 odd slides on the digi tacho alone. If the instructor is not experienced it is easy to just read read and read and forget to involve the group.I agree with the statement with regards clamping down on the trainers. There should be a minimum of PTLLS required and a track record of experience. I also think that the JAUPT inspectors that come out and do spot visits should also have been a driver.
I would like the rules and regs to be aimed at workers and not designed as if we are training students from a college.
Someone said that they would like to have the hours cut down. This to a degree can be done you can do 3.5hrs in one day and the remaining 3.5hrs must be completed within 24hrs. This means 2 days are interrupted.
When booking your courses do you check what qualifications the instructor has?
Would you complain to JAUPT if you thought your training/trainer was not up to speed?
On the basis of this thread it seems the gripe is not with being trained but the course and some of the instructors. Would this be a fair assessment.
Can I please state again a course at £38.75 does not mean it is a rubbish course likewise a course that is £100 does not mean it is excellent. Some of us are good at our job and need to earn money like YOU but we are not out to rip You off.
Thanks for all the input it is making me see things from a different light. I try to do this at the start of each course but it is hard because the drivers feel they have to say what people expect them to say and the truth does not always come out.
I purposely mentioned PTLLS when I contacted JAUPT. They didn’t have a clue what it was and struggled to grasp the concept of trainers not having a qualification to deliver training. They backed themselves into a blinkered cul-de-sac of thinking a training qualification needs to be subject specific. Despite my efforts to explain delivering training and delivering subject knowledge were 2 totally seperate things, they wern’t having any of it. As far as they are concerned, so long as someone can waffle on about transport, they are qualified to teach.
Clara, hats off to you if you have a PTLLS or TAQA qualification, of all the training companies I have spoken with (and there was a fair few) you seem to be the only one with any recognised training qualification. I’ll let the members on here draw there own conclusions from that. (I suspect you might find your bookings increase as a result)
I can’t see why any govermental body isn’t looking into this. As the training is mandatory, they’ll get the cash from it anyway so why not professionalise it. Make it a recognised and valid qualification rather than a tick the box for attending that it currently is. If there is an actual purpose to the financial outlay for the driver / haulier the acceptance of the whole scheme may be bbetter received.
Long distance clara:
On the basis of this thread it seems the gripe is not with being trained but the course and some of the instructors. Would this be a fair assessment.
In part but I would say its mostly about necessary training
Drivers etc can choose what courses or instructors to use but what they have no choice on is necessary tailored training to their personal needs IF they actually need it in the first place
Nothing at all.
After reading what Clara said, I’d rather not do the “participation, get into little groups like schoolkids” and prefer to be left alone.
Ideally, pay a bloke £little as possible for him to say I’d attended allday when I’m actually doing something more useful and interesting.
…
ROG:
What drivers want is training specifically tailored to their individual needs but the dcpc system does not cater for thatUntil the dcpc system changes then I do not think any driver will get what they want from it
You are prefectly right but … unfortunately tailored and bespoke training costs money and nobody wants to pay for that.
A 7 hour course that suits “Fred Smith Haulage” doesn’t necesserily suit “Flintsones Removals”. Each 7 hour course I register for approval costs me £252.00 for 12 months approval. This is no problem if “Fred Smith Haulage” are contributing towards this and other costs but if they aren’t then what we end up with is a generic course suitable for an average audience and not necesserily what you or someone else wants.
I often find myself sitting with a TM or company Director who wants this training and that training. Cover this and cover that. I give them a price for this excellent training package and get “Ahhhh … so what can you do for £25 a man?” To which the answer is “Err … read outloud from a book?” “OK - that’ll do as long as it’s no more than £25 each and they get 7 hours CPC. Can we get 20 lads in this room?”.
I have a professional training qualification and have been delivering training in some form throughout my Army career and through into management positions. I fully understand individual learning needs. I understand how different people learn in different ways. I know that one man wants it in writing, he’ll read it himself and ask if he doesn’t get it. The next man wants it in big letters on the screen and probably explaining word by word. The man next to him wants to get together in a group and ‘learn together’ by discussion and ‘doing’. The next man likes a fun game to make learning fun. Some like videos - some fall asleep during videos. Play a funny video to one person and it cheers him up and he pays attention for the next 1/2 hour - the next man gets grumpy and asks what this has got to do with training quoting it as being a ‘Pile of ■■■■’. it is a complete no win situation for the trainer. I know I should be assessing the learning outcomes, going back to their employer and feeding back information. FOllowing things up with further training where required … but nobody wants to pay for that service.
Professional trainers know what needs doing but … they end up having to deliver average courses in an average way for average pay.
In France DCPC must be taken either in a 5 day block, or a 3 day block followed by a 2 day block within three months. The first three days of either are the same. Day one is assessing the learners needs followed by splitting into groups and tailoring the learning to their needs as best they can. Learners are also tested on day one to ascertain ‘where they are’ in the learning cycle. All of this is paid for by the employer via compulsory contributions to the centralised training. I also believe there is some sort of central record keeping where any registered training provider can look at a learners file and see what they have done, where they did it etc etc - at least this is what I was told.
What we get in the UK is a mixed class of people and we are made to deliver a course that is tightly timetabled. When JAUPT or DSA audit a course they want to see us sticking to the registered timetable. This doesn’t allow us to take care of ‘Fred’s’ particular learning needs and the trainer simply has to do the best he can to accommodate all. I still remember a 7 hour course I ran that was meant to be 3.5 hours on drivers hours and 3.5 on tachos. I had 5 drivers from the same company and it took the whole day to cover what was timetabled as a 3.5 hour course. They all needed extra this and extra that. What I did to make that course work for those drivers was completely against the rules - but it worked. Had an auditor have been there I would have had to simply press on and stick to the timetable.
I work with one company where the DCPC delivered to their drivers has been specifically developed for their own staff and wouldn’t suit anyone else. This is all registered as DCPC and allows us to assess the drivers learning needs, tailor the training to suit and assess the outcomes. This is how it should be done. The company pays me for my time at a fair rate. They are investing in their drivers and their safety. This is DCPC at it’s best, but that is one company out of many and they just happen to have the money to spend. Most don’t have the money.
Yes the current DCPC system is flawed but I can’t see it can ever really be right. BUT … some companies are doing it right because they appreciate the outcome. The current DCPC system does allow for better training - it’s the budget that doesn’t and no training provider can afford to give ‘rolls royce’ training for the price of a Skoda.
I could run some great courses. We’d do this and that, have a vehicle to go and play with the tacho in, have this training aid and that training aid. I’d have 2 or 3 trainers at hand to sit with little groups and get involved. I’d make sure no more than 6 or 8 in a class and a little test that once you passed you can go home early and … and … … in reality who’s going to pay for that because it all costs money. Answer is nobody.
I know my rantings will be falling on deaf ears because so many on Trucknet are simply against anything and everything. If somebody said all tax discs will be square from next week - there’d be outcry and a hundred reasons why they have to be round and it isn’t fair and I’m going to give up driving etc etc
I am not a particular fan of Beverley Bell but something she said kind of made sense to me. She basically said the DCPC is here lets make it work. There is no point moaning and groaning lets get on with it or leave the industry.
I stand by to be pushed from my soapbox