I thought I would throw this in, I currently collect and return vehicle for repair & servicing and do some road testing, I rang Rospa hotline for their view, they said it looks like I’m exempt, but would not commit themselves, and said I should seek legal advice, any views on this gentlemen?
Dieseldog66:
I thought I would throw this in, I currently collect and return vehicle for repair & servicing and do some road testing, I rang Rospa hotline for their view, they said it looks like I’m exempt, but would not commit themselves, and said I should seek legal advice, any views on this gentlemen?
What has Rospa got to do with it … 
Rospa Royal Society for the Prevention of Accidents 
Dieseldog66:
I thought I would throw this in, I currently collect and return vehicle for repair & servicing and do some road testing, I rang Rospa hotline for their view, they said it looks like I’m exempt, but would not commit themselves, and said I should seek legal advice, any views on this gentlemen?
Dieseldog66:
I thought I would throw this in, I currently collect and return vehicle for repair & servicing and do some road testing, I rang Rospa hotline for their view, they said it looks like I’m exempt, but would not commit themselves, and said I should seek legal advice, any views on this gentlemen?
If you are doing the repairs and servicing on those vehicles then I also say you are exempt
What percentage of your time is spent collecting and delivering?
What percentage of your time is spent road testing and repairing/servicing?
Provided driving a vehicle over 3.5 tons is not the majority of your work time you are exempt.
Own Account Driver:
Provided driving a vehicle over 3.5 tons is not the majority of your work time you are exempt.
If only it were that simple.
Conor:
Own Account Driver:
Provided driving a vehicle over 3.5 tons is not the majority of your work time you are exempt.If only it were that simple.
It is that simple but a lot on here love their scaremongering.
Unless your job description is lorry driver in almost all other instances the authorities actually face a significant legal hurdle in demanding someone needs it.
Here’s the actual advice:
When you don’t need Driver CPC
You might not need Driver Certificate of Professional Competence (CPC), even if you’re driving a large goods vehicle or passenger-carrying vehicle. It depends on:
the vehicle
what the vehicle is being used for
Vehicles you can drive without Driver CPC
You don’t need Driver CPC if the vehicle you drive is:
being road tested after repair, maintenance or technical development
new or rebuilt and not been put into service yet
limited to a top speed of 28mph
Vehicle uses where you don’t need Driver CPC
You don’t need Driver CPC if the vehicle you drive is:
used for non-commercial carriage of passengers or goods for personal use
used to carry material or equipment you use for your job - but driving the vehicle can’t be the main part of your job
used for driving lessons for anyone who wants to get a driving licence or a Driver CPC
used by, or is under the control of, the armed forces, civil defence, the fire service and forces responsible for maintaining public order
used in states of emergency or for rescue missions
driven to or from pre-booked appointments at official testing centres
driven within 50 km of your base, is not carrying passengers or goods, and driving a lorry, bus or coach is not your main job
Unless ALL your LGV/PCV driving falls within one or more of the above, you will need a card.
I shouldn’t listen to those who tell you different, a lot of them also maintained that D CPC would not be implemented because the French would allow it or the RHA would get it stopped.
How wrong they were!
Own Account Driver:
Conor:
Own Account Driver:
Provided driving a vehicle over 3.5 tons is not the majority of your work time you are exempt.If only it were that simple.
It is that simple but a lot on here love their scaremongering.
Unless your job description is lorry driver in almost all other instances the authorities actually face a significant legal hurdle in demanding someone needs it.
^^^So if that were the case people like mechanics or managers or traffic office staff, maybe ex-drivers who’ve been ‘promoted’ who drive LGV’s/PCV’s occasionally (such as holiday cover/sickness/busy periods etc.) wouldn’t need to do DCPC■■? HMMMNNN - thin ice I think here.
I was told a good rule of thumb (although by no means hard & fast) - if you are putting a tacho. chart or card in for your journey you will likely need DCPC - no matter what you’re job title/role. Yes there are exemptions & exceptions to this rule and also some that don’t use tacho’s require DCPC such as service bus drivers but it is a reasonable yardstick.
GasGas:
Here’s the actual advice:When you don’t need Driver CPC
You might not need Driver Certificate of Professional Competence (CPC), even if you’re driving a large goods vehicle or passenger-carrying vehicle. It depends on:the vehicle
what the vehicle is being used for
Vehicles you can drive without Driver CPC
You don’t need Driver CPC if the vehicle you drive is:being road tested after repair, maintenance or technical development
new or rebuilt and not been put into service yet
limited to a top speed of 28mph
Vehicle uses where you don’t need Driver CPC
You don’t need Driver CPC if the vehicle you drive is:used for non-commercial carriage of passengers or goods for personal use
used to carry material or equipment you use for your job - but driving the vehicle can’t be the main part of your job
used for driving lessons for anyone who wants to get a driving licence or a Driver CPC
used by, or is under the control of, the armed forces, civil defence, the fire service and forces responsible for maintaining public order
used in states of emergency or for rescue missions
driven to or from pre-booked appointments at official testing centres
driven within 50 km of your base, is not carrying passengers or goods, and driving a lorry, bus or coach is not your main jobUnless ALL your LGV/PCV driving falls within one or more of the above, you will need a card.
I shouldn’t listen to those who tell you different, a lot of them also maintained that D CPC would not be implemented because the French would allow it or the RHA would get it stopped.
How wrong they were!
As if by magic some training industry vested interest scaremongering appears.
Well I always maintained they were talking ■■■■■■■■ about fitters needing it to take vehicles to MOT.
How right I was!
I don’t know where the above comes from but it is advice only and it is misrepresentation to suggest otherwise.
VOSA have given the farmer fixing a fence and using a truck not needing it or tree surgeon chopping a tree but if they use the truck to take animals to market or deliver logs they do. However, this is only their interpretation but in reality there is not really any legal basis to it whatsoever and in actual fact very little to support such an interpretation written into the actual statute law underpinning DCPC.
Daz1970:
Own Account Driver:
Conor:
Own Account Driver:
Provided driving a vehicle over 3.5 tons is not the majority of your work time you are exempt.If only it were that simple.
It is that simple but a lot on here love their scaremongering.
Unless your job description is lorry driver in almost all other instances the authorities actually face a significant legal hurdle in demanding someone needs it.
^^^So if that were the case people like mechanics or managers or traffic office staff, maybe ex-drivers who’ve been ‘promoted’ who drive LGV’s/PCV’s occasionally (such as holiday cover/sickness/busy periods etc.) wouldn’t need to do DCPC■■? HMMMNNN - thin ice I think here.
I was told a good rule of thumb (although by no means hard & fast) - if you are putting a tacho. chart or card in for your journey you will likely need DCPC - no matter what you’re job title/role. Yes there are exemptions & exceptions to this rule and also some that don’t use tacho’s require DCPC such as service bus drivers but it is a reasonable yardstick.
Well in those examples they are not doing driving as part of their main activity really, unlike say a farmer, they are doing lorry driving as an alternative to their normally daily jobs so it is much weaker than say a farmer or tree surgeon.
However, the actual law is very sloppily framed to the point that it may not be possible to get a court to agree that someone doing a bit of driving, that’s not their main activity, regardless what they’re doing eg hire and reward or whatever is actually breaking a law in not doing it.
VOSA aided and abetted by a parasite training industry, sensing a money making opportunity, have tried to assert anyone that gets behind the wheel of a truck occasionally needs it but they’ve really damaged the credibility of the implementation.
The OP’s is as clear case of exemption as you can get and even then they can’t even bring themselves to say provided driving is not your main activity and the information you have provided is correct we would agree this falls under an exemption. Instead they seem to imply you need potentially expensive legal advice and it is easy to see how someone that gets their knickers in a twist about these sort of things might go and waste time and money getting training they didn’t need and likely was not relevant.
Own Account Driver:
Daz1970:
Own Account Driver:
Conor:
Own Account Driver:
Provided driving a vehicle over 3.5 tons is not the majority of your work time you are exempt.If only it were that simple.
It is that simple but a lot on here love their scaremongering.
Unless your job description is lorry driver in almost all other instances the authorities actually face a significant legal hurdle in demanding someone needs it.
^^^So if that were the case people like mechanics or managers or traffic office staff, maybe ex-drivers who’ve been ‘promoted’ who drive LGV’s/PCV’s occasionally (such as holiday cover/sickness/busy periods etc.) wouldn’t need to do DCPC■■? HMMMNNN - thin ice I think here.
I was told a good rule of thumb (although by no means hard & fast) - if you are putting a tacho. chart or card in for your journey you will likely need DCPC - no matter what you’re job title/role. Yes there are exemptions & exceptions to this rule and also some that don’t use tacho’s require DCPC such as service bus drivers but it is a reasonable yardstick.
Well in those examples they are not doing driving as part of their main activity really, unlike say a farmer, they are doing lorry driving as an alternative to their normally daily jobs so it is much weaker than say a farmer or tree surgeon.
However, the actual law is very sloppily framed to the point that it may not be possible to get a court to agree that someone doing a bit of driving, that’s not their main activity, regardless what they’re doing eg hire and reward or whatever is actually breaking a law in not doing it.
VOSA aided and abetted by a parasite training industry, sensing a money making opportunity, have tried to assert anyone that gets behind the wheel of a truck occasionally needs it but they’ve really damaged the credibility of the implementation.
The OP’s is as clear case of exemption as you can get and even then they can’t even bring themselves to say provided driving is not your main activity and the information you have provided is correct we would agree this falls under an exemption. Instead they seem to imply you need potentially expensive legal advice and it is easy to see how someone that gets their knickers in a twist about these sort of things might go and waste time and money getting training they didn’t need and likely was not relevant.
I would suggest the OP would be exempt from DCPC for his technical road testing activities but his delivery & collection of vehicles for service/inspection could be in-scope of DCPC requirements. Very few mechanics in the industry (especially PSV fitters), in my experience, only drive in-scope vehicles for the purpose of road testing, genuine breakdown situations and/or taking vehicles to a pre-booked annual MOT. Most will also carry out other driving duties (as per the OP) where they maybe in-scope of DCPC. Of course some will not need it as they only drive for the prescribed purposes above & will be exempt - but not many!!!
These last two exemptions, which were introduced quite recently after I exposed the fact that the regs as drafted would require a DCPC, would appear to exempt the OP
1) driven to or from pre-booked appointments at official testing centres
2) driven within 50 km of your base, is not carrying passengers or goods, and driving a lorry, bus or coach is not your main job
1 is self-explanatory
2 is drafted to cover mechanics collecting and returning vehicles for service.
Attempting to ‘prove’ you are exempt when the guidelines say you are not on some obscure point of law is likely to take up more than five days of your time, and rather more money than doing the training.
Own Account Driver:
Daz1970:
Own Account Driver:
Conor:
Own Account Driver:
Provided driving a vehicle over 3.5 tons is not the majority of your work time you are exempt.If only it were that simple.
It is that simple but a lot on here love their scaremongering.
Unless your job description is lorry driver in almost all other instances the authorities actually face a significant legal hurdle in demanding someone needs it.
^^^So if that were the case people like mechanics or managers or traffic office staff, maybe ex-drivers who’ve been ‘promoted’ who drive LGV’s/PCV’s occasionally (such as holiday cover/sickness/busy periods etc.) wouldn’t need to do DCPC■■? HMMMNNN - thin ice I think here.
I was told a good rule of thumb (although by no means hard & fast) - if you are putting a tacho. chart or card in for your journey you will likely need DCPC - no matter what you’re job title/role. Yes there are exemptions & exceptions to this rule and also some that don’t use tacho’s require DCPC such as service bus drivers but it is a reasonable yardstick.
Well in those examples they are not doing driving as part of their main activity really, unlike say a farmer, they are doing lorry driving as an alternative to their normally daily jobs so it is much weaker than say a farmer or tree surgeon.
However, the actual law is very sloppily framed to the point that it may not be possible to get a court to agree that someone doing a bit of driving, that’s not their main activity, regardless what they’re doing eg hire and reward or whatever is actually breaking a law in not doing it.
VOSA aided and abetted by a parasite training industry, sensing a money making opportunity, have tried to assert anyone that gets behind the wheel of a truck occasionally needs it but they’ve really damaged the credibility of the implementation.
The OP’s is as clear case of exemption as you can get and even then they can’t even bring themselves to say provided driving is not your main activity and the information you have provided is correct we would agree this falls under an exemption. Instead they seem to imply you need potentially expensive legal advice and it is easy to see how someone that gets their knickers in a twist about these sort of things might go and waste time and money getting training they didn’t need and likely was not relevant.
He hasn’t asked VOSA (now the DVSA) for an opinion…he asked ROSPA, which is a safety charity. They weren’t sure, but their advice verged on the side of caution.
Left hand down!:
Dieseldog66:
I thought I would throw this in, I currently collect and return vehicle for repair & servicing and do some road testing, I rang Rospa hotline for their view, they said it looks like I’m exempt, but would not commit themselves, and said I should seek legal advice, any views on this gentlemen?
Yes a good point, I was directed to the Rospa site when I googled the question,
About 1 to 2 hours is spent all told and that’s max in one night,driving, no journey is more than 15 mins or 6 miles, some nights it’s less than half hour, total driving.
GasGas:
These last two exemptions, which were introduced quite recently after I exposed the fact that the regs as drafted would require a DCPC, would appear to exempt the OP1) driven to or from pre-booked appointments at official testing centres
2) driven within 50 km of your base, is not carrying passengers or goods, and driving a lorry, bus or coach is not your main job1 is self-explanatory
2 is drafted to cover mechanics collecting and returning vehicles for service.
Attempting to ‘prove’ you are exempt when the guidelines say you are not on some obscure point of law is likely to take up more than five days of your time, and rather more money than doing the training.
So you just accept it eh, no chance!!
Daz1970:
Own Account Driver:
Daz1970:
Own Account Driver:
Conor:
Own Account Driver:
Provided driving a vehicle over 3.5 tons is not the majority of your work time you are exempt.If only it were that simple.
It is that simple but a lot on here love their scaremongering.
Unless your job description is lorry driver in almost all other instances the authorities actually face a significant legal hurdle in demanding someone needs it.
^^^So if that were the case people like mechanics or managers or traffic office staff, maybe ex-drivers who’ve been ‘promoted’ who drive LGV’s/PCV’s occasionally (such as holiday cover/sickness/busy periods etc.) wouldn’t need to do DCPC■■? HMMMNNN - thin ice I think here.
I was told a good rule of thumb (although by no means hard & fast) - if you are putting a tacho. chart or card in for your journey you will likely need DCPC - no matter what you’re job title/role. Yes there are exemptions & exceptions to this rule and also some that don’t use tacho’s require DCPC such as service bus drivers but it is a reasonable yardstick.
Well in those examples they are not doing driving as part of their main activity really, unlike say a farmer, they are doing lorry driving as an alternative to their normally daily jobs so it is much weaker than say a farmer or tree surgeon.
However, the actual law is very sloppily framed to the point that it may not be possible to get a court to agree that someone doing a bit of driving, that’s not their main activity, regardless what they’re doing eg hire and reward or whatever is actually breaking a law in not doing it.
VOSA aided and abetted by a parasite training industry, sensing a money making opportunity, have tried to assert anyone that gets behind the wheel of a truck occasionally needs it but they’ve really damaged the credibility of the implementation.
The OP’s is as clear case of exemption as you can get and even then they can’t even bring themselves to say provided driving is not your main activity and the information you have provided is correct we would agree this falls under an exemption. Instead they seem to imply you need potentially expensive legal advice and it is easy to see how someone that gets their knickers in a twist about these sort of things might go and waste time and money getting training they didn’t need and likely was not relevant.
I would suggest the OP would be exempt from DCPC for his technical road testing activities but his delivery & collection of vehicles for service/inspection could be in-scope of DCPC requirements. Very few mechanics in the industry (especially PSV fitters), in my experience, only drive in-scope vehicles for the purpose of road testing, genuine breakdown situations and/or taking vehicles to a pre-booked annual MOT. Most will also carry out other driving duties (as per the OP) where they maybe in-scope of DCPC. Of course some will not need it as they only drive for the prescribed purposes above & will be exempt - but not many!!!
As I say, if they’ve got their tools with them and the digi-card supports driving is not the main activity barring an expensive surveillance operation it would be near impossible to prove to the satisfaction of a court they are not exempt. Particularly if they have an employment contract with a truck dealer or commercial vehicle repair operation.
As I have always maintained, from a legal point of view, it is clearly the intent of the original legislation for certain occupations to be exempt so the crux is really amount of driving time and occupation. Like with taking a vehicle to test, the position this was not an exempt activity was clearly absurd as it implied no-one was exempt as everyone would need to get their vehicle tested.
The idea that occupations will dip in and out has always been nonsense. With the example of scaffolder (one of a few official examples) provided scaffolding is their main activity they are exempt. There is an extremely low probability that a court would rule they would suddenly need to run off and do 35 hours of classroom training just because one day they get stuck in traffic and they end up doing more driving than putting up scaffolding before they can drive home again. Similarly, despite official suggestions it would, I simply do not think that a court would rule it unacceptable for them to collect some new scaffolding they had bought from a manufacturer if the authorities were foolish enough to pursue legal action.
GasGas:
These last two exemptions, which were introduced quite recently after I exposed the fact that the regs as drafted would require a DCPC, would appear to exempt the OP1) driven to or from pre-booked appointments at official testing centres
2) driven within 50 km of your base, is not carrying passengers or goods, and driving a lorry, bus or coach is not your main job1 is self-explanatory
2 is drafted to cover mechanics collecting and returning vehicles for service.
Attempting to ‘prove’ you are exempt when the guidelines say you are not on some obscure point of law is likely to take up more than five days of your time, and rather more money than doing the training.
Regardless where was asked, in this case, the ultimate official stance is to take your own legal advice so I don’t understand the point you are making. There clearly is an intent for many incidental users of trucks to be exempt from training squarely aimed at vocational truck drivers. There is nothing obscure the law must be either interpreted by those who believe they are exempt or they can pay a lawyer to offer their interpretation.
You still seem to be unable to grasp that the authorities must prove someone is not exempt and not the other way around.
It’s difficult to take guidelines that have previously been proved either ill-considered or the result of poor legal advice seriously. There’s a lot of fitters and mechanics out there that wasted their time and money on irrelevant training they now won’t get back.
Dieseldog66:
About 1 to 2 hours is spent all told and that’s max in one night,driving, no journey is more than 15 mins or 6 miles, some nights it’s less than half hour, total driving.
Deffo exempt dcpc
The driving is only so the main job can be done and is not for the purpose of carrying goods or passengers
The idea that occupations will dip in and out has always been nonsense. With the example of scaffolder (one of a few official examples) provided scaffolding is their main activity they are exempt.
There is an extremely low probability that a court would rule they would suddenly need to run off and do 35 hours of classroom training just because one day they get stuck in traffic and they end up doing more driving than putting up scaffolding before they can drive home again.
There’s no suggestion that if on one day a scaffolder drove more than he did other work he’d suddenly fall into scope of training.
The question is whether the items he carries are for his own use, or for someone else to use.
DVSA will use their well-published guidelines in deciding who to prosecute…it’s unlikely that a repeated assertion from the defendant that he thinks the guidelines are wrong and he is right is going to get him a not guilty verdict. Can you provide any evidence that the guidelines are clearly wrong?