Day cab drivers v trampers

UK PROFESSIONAL DRIVERS FORUMS THE UK PROFESSIONAL DRIVERS FORUM (INTERACTIVE)
61

nsmith1180:

Ross v stobart:
…
I’m sure 12 hours is enough for a good planner to plan.

I mean driving is limited to ten hours and 9hours so 12 hours is reasonable.
There would need to be more efficient planning and better turn around at customers of cdc.
12 hours is enough for none trampers.
I speak with many drivers who agree.
I mean the maximum is 9hours per day anyway,

I’m sure it could be achieved with better planning.

Is what you are smoking actually legal?

I will give you a hypothetical run into an RDC, starting from the Luton aread and running up to around Preston ish.

So card in, a lap of the warehouse to pick up the trailer and out on the road in 30 minutes. Run up the M1 and M6, picking up traffic in the road works, get to Preston-ish with 4 hours driving on the tacho, four and half hours after starting work. Planning is going good here so far.

Plan for an hour to tip at <> before going off to Skelmersdale to reload with crisps from Walkers. Break on the way down at Charnok Richard, arrive at Skem with five hours driving in the books, you have 5.5 hours working left before needing a break. An hour to reload and a three and half hour run back to the warehouse in Luton-ish. My maths says there that we have had 11:45 of my day, So i have fifteen minutes to drop the trailer, park up, and ■■■■■ at the TM for the tight timings.

The day has however gone to your plan. A 12 hour working day.

Add in another couple of hypothetical situations:

  1. Big smash on the M6 at junction 2. Cant route around it that easily, not without adding significantly to your drive time anyways.

  2. Big RDC has three blokes off sick, tipping becomes two hours, not one.

  3. Walkers are still picking your load when you get there, or some bloke is stuck on the loading bay for half an hour for a legally required break.

All of these then mean that the driver can’t make it back and is stuck on a night out, probably, because he is just a day driver, with no gear.

The current system should work well, providing TMs plan right. If a driver has 15 hours of working available in a day, plan for 13. If he has 13, plan for 11. That gives a safety margin so that the night shift don’t get shafted when the day driver is stuck on a night out. If a day driver is going to be an hour late back, the night shift can juggle vehicles to cover all the runs that need doing. If he isn’t going to make it back, the night shift are short a vehicle. The company either needs to keep a vehicle sitting idle, just in case one doesn’t make it back. (good luck finding a firm that will do that!) Or fails its contracted deliveries and is liable to loose a lucrative contract.

In a world where everything works as it should, you are OK saying that drivers should work no more than 12 hours a day and TMs should plan just the right amount of work to be done in that time. In the world we live in, you can guarantee that some monkey is going to be ■■■■■■ up and kill himself on the M6. Another monkey is going to be hung over and phone in sick to either the delivery point or the collection, and Another monkey is going to have not reported that defect, and you will spend three hours waiting for DAF AID to turn up to fix your motor.

Fair enough, you’re absolutely right of course. Things rarely go to plan. …but where do you draw the line?

How about a 16 hour day to give even more scope to cope with delays? Or allow drivers to do an 18 hour day once a week, to cope with long unexpected delays, such as a serious RTA on the motorway? What point is too much? If a planner knows you can work 16 hours, they’ll plan 16 hours…I’ve known a few idiots that would happily plan 17 hours …as I’m sure most have…

An awful lot of lorries have crashed on our roads over the last few years. I wonder how many are a result of over tired drivers?

62

You’re suggesting that the day driver has to drive home, wash, eat, socialise with the family etc. Are you then suggesting that trampers don’t wash, eat and socialise with the family (all be it on the phone)? The only difference is the driving home and back.

63

Truckulent:
Fair enough, you’re absolutely right of course. Things rarely go to plan. …but where do you draw the line?

How about a 16 hour day to give even more scope to cope with delays? Or allow drivers to do an 18 hour day once a week, to cope with long unexpected delays, such as a serious RTA on the motorway? What point is too much? If a planner knows you can work 16 hours, they’ll plan 16 hours…I’ve known a few idiots that would happily plan 17 hours …as I’m sure most have…

An awful lot of lorries have crashed on our roads over the last few years. I wonder how many are a result of over tired drivers?

You make a good point. Maybe we should petition for a change in the regulations.

Run plans must be kept for an equal amount of time to tachograph records. Any TM planning a day which has an excessive risk of going over hours gets the fine instead of the driver?

64

Truckulent:
Fair enough, you’re absolutely right of course. Things rarely go to plan. …but where do you draw the line?How about a 16 hour day to give even more scope to cope with delays? Or allow drivers to do an 18 hour day once a week, to cope with long unexpected delays, such as a serious RTA on the motorway? What point is too much? If a planner knows you can work 16 hours, they’ll plan 16 hours…I’ve known a few idiots that would happily plan 17 hours …as I’m sure most have…An awful lot of lorries have crashed on our roads over the last few years. I wonder how many are a result of over tired drivers?

So now you want to work more hours, if those allowances were in the hours regulation as you say, the planners will take full advantage of them, and then you be moaning about those the hours.

Regulations we have are perfectly OK

last say look at it this way

£8.00 per hour every hour worked paid no deductions for break or POA working full hours you earn 71@£8= £568 5 days pay
£8.00 per hour every hour worked paid no deductions for break or POA working 60@£8= £480 5 days pay

So you have to get up go to work anyway and you have to come home anyway so why not take a bit more pay
that why we get up, is it not and the extra pay make a lot of sense if you have a car to run, and want to keep the wife/husband in those nice thing, as there say there spend it if there can :wink: :wink: :stuck_out_tongue:

And on a note if you don’t like to do the hours, then you have a choice, as you all no overtime in not compulsory and no one can make you do it.(you mite not have a job in transport for long though)

one of my last contract said 45 per week for £21000 overtime paid at time and an third, but not compulsory, and so driver did just that there worked 45 hours and went home, more for me and others , it all do with choice.

65

I read a calculation once from a statistics expert.
The calculation was simple…
The more units that are available then the cheaper the units are.
That’s the,same,for working hours.
This transport industry did not change with the implementation of a law that,was supposed to give the driver a work life balance.
In short a safer driving environment,and fair competition.

If drivers work according to the law ,yes it would mean less hours,or more paid holidays.
Its complicated but in short the law is there.
So use it and create a new transport industry for the future.
This government is on its way out.
I know it sounds barmy,but the industry needs to change.
Why should professional drivers have to flout the law for a living.
,here’s a tip,if its windy and your,crossing a bridge,if the signs say 40, do 40, its guidance!

66

delboytwo:

Truckulent:
Fair enough, you’re absolutely right of course. Things rarely go to plan. …but where do you draw the line?How about a 16 hour day to give even more scope to cope with delays? Or allow drivers to do an 18 hour day once a week, to cope with long unexpected delays, such as a serious RTA on the motorway? What point is too much? If a planner knows you can work 16 hours, they’ll plan 16 hours…I’ve known a few idiots that would happily plan 17 hours …as I’m sure most have…An awful lot of lorries have crashed on our roads over the last few years. I wonder how many are a result of over tired drivers?

So now you want to work more hours, if those allowances were in the hours regulation as you say, the planners will take full advantage of them, and then you be moaning about those the hours.

Regulations we have are perfectly OK

last say look at it this way

£8.00 per hour every hour worked paid no deductions for break or POA working full hours you earn 71@£8= £568 5 days pay
£8.00 per hour every hour worked paid no deductions for break or POA working 60@£8= £480 5 days pay

So you have to get up go to work anyway and you have to come home anyway so why not take a bit more pay
that why we get up, is it not and the extra pay make a lot of sense if you have a car to run, and want to keep the wife/husband in those nice thing, as there say there spend it if there can :wink: :wink: :stuck_out_tongue:

And on a note if you don’t like to do the hours, then you have a choice, as you all no overtime in not compulsory and no one can make you do it.(you mite not have a job in transport for long though)

one of my last contract said 45 per week for £21000 overtime paid at time and an third, but not compulsory, and so driver did just that there worked 45 hours and went home, more for me and others , it all do with choice.

Please make sure you have read and understood my post before responding!!! :laughing:

67

Truckulent:
Please make sure you have read and understood my post before responding!!!

I did not this and now realise :blush: you may have been having dig,

Truckulent:
…but where do you draw the line?

68

I’m a tramper. I don’t run bent, I sleep when I need to, and get enough of it to continue with my work - week in, week out. I don’t earn a fortune, some weeks are better than others, some times I’m home two or three nights a week, other times I’m away from Monday to Saturday. It’s the job - and I actually quite enjoy it :open_mouth:
A recurring theme here seems to be “Ross - you are in the wrong line of work.” Try the Bookie industry - then tell me about long hours for no purpose and ■■■■-poor money. And that was as a branch manager for one of the Big Five.

69

The wrong industry.

Which part is that.
You must mean the,whole transport industry,
I recently spoke to a group of trampers and all happily admitted breaking the law.
Its part of the job.
I get it.
Your right its not for me,I want to work legally.
I want to be a part of the European union as well.

I understand a lot if brits don’t want to be in the EU.

Ill say it again, the UK should admit defeat with regards to full implementation of the working time directive 2002.
The UK transport industry does not comply with the requirements,
The regulator has failed to enforce the regulations.
Night night.
If you don’t understand the regulations then you can read them.
Search google,

70

Yay, finally, the steering wheel attendant has stopped giving us professional drivers unsolicited advice on how to drive!

Thats one part of the battle won.

71

When reading (not necessarily making any sense of) the OP, I can’t help but think of a certain member “Spanishvan”…

72

What’s a steering wheel attendant please.
What’s the difference in a steering wheel attendant and a professional driver.
Can Kermit the frog really drive like you can.
Ma ma ma, Muppet.
:smiley:
Here’s a tip
Give up your job,ain’t got,a clue. :question:

73

Ross v stobart:
What’s a steering wheel attendant please.
What’s the difference in a steering wheel attendant and a professional driver.
Can Kermit the frog really drive like you can.
Ma ma ma, Muppet.
:smiley:
Here’s a tip
Give up your job,ain’t got,a clue. :question:

I bet the queue to sit next to you in the rdc waiting room’s aslong as a tramps’ lunch break…

74

If you choose to do a day driving job, then you know the pitfalls Involved…

75

I personally dont have a problem,as I limit how much I work.
I am concerned that I am surrounded by drivers who are aggresive in driving.
Drive to fast and to close.
We not tired drivers have to mix with you big truckers who must quite honestly be knackered.
A recent group of drivers all happily admitted breaking the law
Would you admit that :imp: .

76

Ross v stobart:
I personally dont have a problem,as I limit how much I work.
I am concerned that I am surrounded by drivers who are aggresive in driving.
Drive to fast and to close.
We not tired drivers have to mix with you big truckers who must quite honestly be knackered.
A recent group of drivers all happily admitted breaking the law
Would you admit that :imp: .

I bet you’re the sort to look out for things to trip over.

77

I wonder why you find you are constantly surrounded by aggressive drivers. :unamused: I personally am so placid and laid back I’m virtually horizontal, but even I am struggling against an urge to give you a ding on the ear 'ole :smiling_imp:

78

“I wonder why you find you are constantly surrounded by aggressive drivers. :unamused: I personally am so placid and laid back I’m virtually horizontal, but even I am struggling against an urge to give you a ding on the ear 'ole :smiling_imp:”

MESSAGE in reply to above comment- FROM Ross vs Stobarts…FRIEND, A MEMBER OF THE GENERAL PUBLIC WHO WORKS NORMAL HOURS AND GETS TO GO HOME AND SEE MY FAMILY…
( hopefully ross vs stobart will not be too upset at my post to his thread, but he did stay logged-in on my PC )…

Thankfully my brain has not been contorted due to massive work hours, so here is a rational and fair reply to the above comment posted by The Sargent,… Anyone who says he is PLACID and virtually horizontal, OBVIOUSLY IS NOT if a threat of being “clipped around the ear”, is an answer to opinions that are either not agreed with or not liked… BUT IT IS NOT the seargents FAULT, he is obviously overworked… Here is my take on AGGRESSIVE drivers from experience gained over the years. When I was a lot younger i worked as a drivers mate for several days, besides the problem of trying to keep my eyes open on 15 hour shifts the biggest thing I remember was the human EXCREMENET inside the cab, the smell will stay with me forever. I never went into a cab again. I have three friends who are all HGV drivers who ALL work massive hours to earn a wage that they should earn on a 48hr week. In my opinion driving HGV’S is a skilled job which requires constant alertness and this should be reflected in the pay, HGV drivers are underpaid and overworked. My three HGV driving friends are ALL divorced and the majority of their life is spent sat inside a cab. Several years ago I went on an employment retraining course and two of my fellow students were both LONG TERM ex HGV drivers looking to get out, one had “vibration white finger” and could hardly use his hands due to decades of heavy driving and the other had “carpal tunnel syndrome” which he also blamed on long hard driving. Several months ago in my car I was at a junction taking a right, there was a HGV parked up on double yellow lines and totally blocking my view even after nudging right out into the road I could still not see and all the time the driver was sat in his cab smirking. Because I was so annoyed I simply shook my head at the driver in disgust, what followed then will remain with me just like the EXCREMENT incident all those years ago… The driver got out of his cab and started running towards me, luckily at that moment I could take the right and I drove off, after several feet and a clear road ahead I looked in my rear view mirror and to my amazement the HGV driver was running in the middle of the road waving his arms above his head towards me, he was almost foaming at the mouth. The road was clear ahead and I just drove off looking at this aggressive overworked Looney from my rear view mirror getting smaller and smaller the further I got away, he was definitely baying for blood. Finally my sister was married to a HGV driver who earned good money but had to put immense hours in to earn it, she never saw him and the small amount of time she did he was absolutely knackered and almost always wound up, after five years of this they were divorced. It is a shame because it was not his fault but in my opinion the fault of the employers for not paying a wage that reflects the job and instead forcing drivers into long hours for a decent wage. I WOULD BE ANGRY ALSO…

79

^^^^Don’t feed the TROLL ^^^^

80

So, after your time as a driver’s mate you never got in a cab again, did you? Drove for Stobarts by remote control did you?
I’m outta here - if there’s one thing worse than a Stobbie Spotter it’s a trolling fake driver…