I’ve been asked if I would like to do a part-time job driving a minibus for disabled children. My licence (which has been renewed every 5 years for the C+E entitlement) has the D1 category on it but it has the restriction ‘101’ beside it - ‘not for hire or reward’. Now, I’m an old geezer & have had my licence for a long time and I did actually do a similar job many years ago. I can’t recall seeing the 101 restriction before and I’m wondering if it’s something I’ve missed, has it always been standard or what? The lady who’s dealing with it says she has never been asked the question and has taken on previous drivers with no problem, so as I don’t particularly want to pay out a few hundred, or whatever, for a minibus test, am I missing something here?
Incidentally, as the bus is modified for disabled passengers, including wheelchairs, it can only take 8 or 10, as far as I’m aware so I don’t know if this has any bearing.
tallyman:
I’ve been asked if I would like to do a part-time job driving a minibus for disabled children. My licence (which has been renewed every 5 years for the C+E entitlement) has the D1 category on it but it has the restriction ‘101’ beside it - ‘not for hire or reward’. Now, I’m an old geezer & have had my licence for a long time and I did actually do a similar job many years ago. I can’t recall seeing the 101 restriction before and I’m wondering if it’s something I’ve missed, has it always been standard or what? The lady who’s dealing with it says she has never been asked the question and has taken on previous drivers with no problem, so as I don’t particularly want to pay out a few hundred, or whatever, for a minibus test, am I missing something here?
Incidentally, as the bus is modified for disabled passengers, including wheelchairs, it can only take 8 or 10, as far as I’m aware so I don’t know if this has any bearing.
You did not renew the “PSV” part of your licence when you renewed your “HGV” part ‘oops’
The hire and reward is if u own the minibus and hire yourself out
u should be okay if it is a job
Example u could be a chauffeur but if it was your car and u took folk that would be hire & reward like a taxi
tallyman:
I’ve been asked if I would like to do a part-time job driving a minibus for disabled children. My licence (which has been renewed every 5 years for the C+E entitlement) has the D1 category on it but it has the restriction ‘101’ beside it - ‘not for hire or reward’. Now, I’m an old geezer & have had my licence for a long time and I did actually do a similar job many years ago. I can’t recall seeing the 101 restriction before and I’m wondering if it’s something I’ve missed, has it always been standard or what? The lady who’s dealing with it says she has never been asked the question and has taken on previous drivers with no problem, so as I don’t particularly want to pay out a few hundred, or whatever, for a minibus test, am I missing something here?
Incidentally, as the bus is modified for disabled passengers, including wheelchairs, it can only take 8 or 10, as far as I’m aware so I don’t know if this has any bearing.
You did not renew the “PSV” part of your licence when you renewed your “HGV” part ‘oops’
Never taken PSV so never needed to renew it, the D1 category is purely grandfather rights for (up to) 18 seater minibuses - my son hasn’t got D1 on his licence. I’ve hired minibuses in the past for family do’s with no problem, it’s the ‘101’ restriction that I haven’t noticed, or been aware of.
I rather suspect that the organisation are also unaware of it and would be interested to see if the other driver has got the same restriction, they are offering something called MIDAS training as part of the job, whatever that is, but, as I say, don’t really want to go through having to take a test to remove the restriction.
gmccabe13:
The hire and reward is if u own the minibus and hire yourself out
u should be okay if it is a job
Example u could be a chauffeur but if it was your car and u took folk that would be hire & reward like a taxi
I think yo’ll find ‘hire or reward’ covers being employed as well - after all that’s one of the requirements for all employed drivers needing the DCPC card isn’t it?
gmccabe13:
101 - not for hire or reward (that is, not to make a profit)
From the website
The ‘reward’ part is your wages (as an employee), otherwise if you use that analogy it would mean that any driver who is employed, ie not using their own vehicle, does not need to get the DCPC card, as the same ‘hire or reward’ term is used in those rules and if that was the case it would make a lot of drivers on this forum very happy .
Code 101 (not for hire or reward) means the vehicle owner cannot charge for the service other than out of pocket expenses, it also means the driver cannot accept payment other than out of pocket expenses.
I think you’ll find that the code 101 came into operation for drivers who held a driving licence before 1997 when you could drive a minibus on a car licence.
The MIDAS is something that you would need to drive the local authority mini-bus.Where I stay the examiner is a school janitor,its really just a box ticking exercise.
tachograph:
Code 101 (not for hire or reward) means the vehicle owner cannot charge for the service other than out of pocket expenses, it also means the driver cannot accept payment other than out of pocket expenses.
I think you’ll find that the code 101 came into operation for drivers who held a driving licence before 1997 when you could drive a minibus on a car licence.
tachograph:
Code 101 (not for hire or reward) means the vehicle owner cannot charge for the service other than out of pocket expenses, it also means the driver cannot accept payment other than out of pocket expenses
The driver with a D1 101 can be paid - what matters is the actual purpose that the minibus is being used for
Example
Council mini bus with council paid driver or agency driver using minibus to take special needs children to schools
tachograph:
Code 101 (not for hire or reward) means the vehicle owner cannot charge for the service other than out of pocket expenses, it also means the driver cannot accept payment other than out of pocket expenses
The driver with a D1 101 can be paid - what matters is the actual purpose that the minibus is being used for
Example
Council mini bus with council paid driver or agency driver using minibus to take special needs children to schools
OK, that’s confused the issue nicely, just when I thought I had it clear…
The organisation is a private charity with the same sort of ‘special needs’ bus - in fact councils are actually funding the places for the young people. So does that mean it would be perfectly legal for me to drive that bus (I’m informed it actually has 9 passenger seats and 4 spaces for wheelchairs) and be paid an hourly rate to do it? If so can you please point me in the direction of getting it in black & white.
I think it depends whether the vehicle is classed as a PSV…if it is you’ll need a PSV D1 licence. But from the info. it probably isn’t a PSV. It is probably a minibus operated on Section 19 or Section 22 permit scheme (O licence exempted operations such as charities, educational and community establishments). This means you can transfer students etc. without PSV D1 minibus licence i.e. a teacher taking rugby team to an away match (non-PSV). Confusion starts, however, because if a bus operator took the same team of kids to the match on a similar minibus the driver would need PSV licence & vehicle need a Standard National O licence.
Edit to my post above…if the vehicle is non-PSV you will still (usually) require D1 restriction 101 on your licence to drive it. Meaning younger people won’t even have this entitlement…but you do. So you just need to establish the status of vehicle and operation.
tachograph:
Code 101 (not for hire or reward) means the vehicle owner cannot charge for the service other than out of pocket expenses, it also means the driver cannot accept payment other than out of pocket expenses
The driver with a D1 101 can be paid - what matters is the actual purpose that the minibus is being used for
Example
Council mini bus with council paid driver or agency driver using minibus to take special needs children to schools
OK, that’s confused the issue nicely, just when I thought I had it clear…
The organisation is a private charity with the same sort of ‘special needs’ bus - in fact councils are actually funding the places for the young people. So does that mean it would be perfectly legal for me to drive that bus (I’m informed it actually has 9 passenger seats and 4 spaces for wheelchairs) and be paid an hourly rate to do it? If so can you please point me in the direction of getting it in black & white.
Ta.
D1 101 fine for that even if you are paid to do it because the passengers are not paying for the service and its a non profit organisation running it
tachograph:
Code 101 (not for hire or reward) means the vehicle owner cannot charge for the service other than out of pocket expenses, it also means the driver cannot accept payment other than out of pocket expenses
The driver with a D1 101 can be paid - what matters is the actual purpose that the minibus is being used for
Example
Council mini bus with council paid driver or agency driver using minibus to take special needs children to schools
My old man does exactly that and has that restriction. Many of the drivers are ex HGV drivers and none of them have took any extra tests.
This is a highly contentious business known as Section19 or Section 22 operation and the subject of ongoing legal argument because the UK is not applying EU law correctly. PSV operators are extremely upset about the fiddles used by some section 19 or 22 operators to get around the restrictions on hire and reward.
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