ROG:
Two scenarios boht with paid member of staff driving
Needs full PCV D1
Hotel that includes minibus usage listed in with the price
Needs just D1 101
Hotel that offers free usage of minibus and is not listed in with the price
I’ve no idea what this has to do with the OPs scenario, but there’s every chance that the second scenario in that post would be regarded as indirect payment because the passengers would not be allowed to travel on the bus if they were not paying to stay at the hotel.
Therefore there’s every chance that a court would decide that the service was for hire or reward.
But like I said this has nothing to do with the OPs question.
ROG:
Two scenarios boht with paid member of staff driving
Needs full PCV D1
Hotel that includes minibus usage listed in with the price
Needs just D1 101
Hotel that offers free usage of minibus and is not listed in with the price
I’ve no idea what this has to do with the OPs scenario, but there’s every chance that the second scenario in that post would be regarded as indirect payment because the passengers would not be allowed to travel on the bus if they were not paying to stay at the hotel.
Therefore there’s every chance that a court would decide that the service was for hire or reward.
But like I said this has nothing to do with the OPs question.
Just expanding on the law - the second scenario is not illegal - I have/had an official letter on that exact one somewhere from about 5 years ago
Small buses (adapted to carry 9 to 16 passengers)
Different conditions apply, depending on when the driver obtained a full licence to drive vehicles in category B (cars).
i) Drivers granted a full licence to drive vehicles in category B (car, not automatic) before 1st January 1997.
These drivers were automatically granted additional entitlement D1, to drive a small bus not used for hire or reward. For as long as they hold D1 entitlement, these drivers may drive a small bus of any weight used under the permit. There is no restriction on them receiving payment.
Any form of payment is reward. I would say you can not drive it. If I were you I would ask DVLA in writing and get a reply in writing, Then if they say you can drive it and at some point some smart bar steward says your are not covered and they are going to have you in court then you will have your defence.
chris140472:
Any form of payment is reward. I would say you can not drive it. If I were you I would ask DVLA in writing and get a reply in writing, Then if they say you can drive it and at some point some smart bar steward says your are not covered and they are going to have you in court then you will have your defence.
This post would imply that all the hundreds of school teachers/college lecturers that transport pupils to and from events or sports fixtures hold a minimum of PSV Cat. D1 without restriction code 101 on their licence. They (mostly) certainly do not have unrestricted D1 licence. The teacher/driver is allowed to get paid without full D1 providing the minibus is used under Section 19 or 22 permit operations. IMO it is wrong but they don’t need tacho’s, DCPC or O licence for the minibus. As I said the same journey could be undertaken by a professional PCV operator where both the minibus & driver would need ‘the full monty’!!!
Picture the scenario…a teacher does a full shift at a school in Manchester and then drives upto 16 pupils unregulated to a weekend adventure break in Cornwall…all in one day!!!
What annoyed me was i took a PSV test, but when it came to renewal i had to get my employer to sign the renewal form to say i was still driving buses/coaches, this doesnt need to happen with a HGV licence, and because i went back to driving trucks, i lost my entitlement and feel this is so wrong. I can understand the fact that i am under the medical requirements of DVLA for my truck licence and it has just been renewed, it should still allow me to keep my PSV.
The rules were tightened up after a bad crash,this is the 25 year anniversary if thats the right word for it.Public school pupils and teacher died think it was on the M26.After that the teachers had to do Midas training.I sometimes see Community coaches doing things that should be commercial work.They steal other peoples work then go fund raising for the running cost of the bus.
chris140472:
Any form of payment is reward. I would say you can not drive it. If I were you I would ask DVLA in writing and get a reply in writing, Then if they say you can drive it and at some point some smart bar steward says your are not covered and they are going to have you in court then you will have your defence.
This post would imply that all the hundreds of school teachers/college lecturers that transport pupils to and from events or sports fixtures hold a minimum of PSV Cat. D1 without restriction code 101 on their licence. They (mostly) certainly do not have unrestricted D1 licence. The teacher/driver is allowed to get paid without full D1 providing the minibus is used under Section 19 or 22 permit operations. IMO it is wrong but they don’t need tacho’s, DCPC or O licence for the minibus. As I said the same journey could be undertaken by a professional PCV operator where both the minibus & driver would need ‘the full monty’!!!
Picture the scenario…a teacher does a full shift at a school in Manchester and then drives upto 16 pupils unregulated to a weekend adventure break in Cornwall…all in one day!!!
The counter to your point is that the teacher is employed by the school to teach and is not driving as his or hers main job so yes the concessions apply. As I understand the first post the person was going to be paid to drive the bus as his only or main job so I can not see the concessions applying in this case. As I said best to get DVLA to give a written answer to the question because we could discuss this for weeks on here and both be wrong on some small technicality and someone ends up in court over it.
tallyman:
Incidentally, as the bus is modified for disabled passengers, including wheelchairs, it can only take 8 or 10, as far as I’m aware so I don’t know if this has any bearing.
Number of passenger seats does have a bearing. If it is 8 (passenger seats, excluding the driver) then it isn’t a minibus no matter what it looks like.
