Not wanting to get in to any arguments, speculation or banter…
God bless the children and the parents involved in this tragedy and I hope their end was quick and painless. I hope there is a god because the children had their whole lives ahead of them and they will never experience another moment of happiness, love and all the joy that should have gone with their childhood.
I’m not a religious person but I pray to god for this family. Rest in peace.
I don’t really want to go off thread, but feel that I must explain one or two points that have been raised.
MrB;
On the point of the matrix signs it’ll help if they was relevant to what is actually going on. The other day i passed a truck that’d had a blow out, bits of rubber everywhere. For the next 10 miles the matrix’s said “slow debris in the road”
This is all down to the location passed to us. if it’s given as *between junction “x” to junction “Y” * that’s where we have to set the signals.
Now the offending vehicle was a HGV, a professional driver like most on here, then why didn’t he call in via the motorway phone, or even on his mobile quoting the markerpost?
If he had done, signals would have been trimmed down to just 2 signals.
limmeyphil:
Why didn’t HATO or the police shift those news people from the bridge, the rubber neckers caused huge tailbacks and there could have been more accidents.
Quite simply, the police cannot move them unless they are commiting an offence, standing on a bridge over the motorway isn’t an offence. not to mention that the police had a lot more things to do than that!
The news people on the bridge etc, not only are they allowed to be, (still a free country - just!) The HATO’s certainly have no authority to move them on as they aren’t even on the motorway network.
If they’d have come onto the network (that means within the confines of the land the motorway is on, ie even the verges etc.) then they would have been commiting an offence of “pedestrian on motorway” and the police/HATO would have sorted them.
just watched the news and i see the portugese driver is still in custody,
is this because he is not from this country or is there something more sinister like tacho’s,laptops or mobiles to investigate?
bikemonkey:
FFS,it was a tragic accident that happened BANG quick as a flash,nobody upto the final seconds of impact was aware of what was gonna happen it was just a normal Monday night…nobody plans these things they just happen
And while attitudes like this exist, people will keep getting killed on our roads.
No, it was not a tragic ‘accident’.
No, these things don’t ‘just happen’.
I don’t give a fig whether the person to blame was pedestrian, cyclist, car, van or truck driver, or what their nationality happens to be.
The fact is there are too many idiots on the roads that think it’s fine to do all sorts of things while driving except actually concentrate on their driving.
While there are people like you happy to make excuses for these imbeciles, then nothing will change. People will keep getting killed.
I don’t post much on here - because I don’t want to be associated with comments like yours. I gave up driving for a living because I don’t want to be associated with the appalling standards that are far to prevalent in this industry today.
Now I’m not judging the cause of the particular accident that started this thread, the driver currently under arrest and according to tonight’s still being questioned is innocent until proven guilty in a court of law - but to say that these are accidents that just happen is just plain stupid.
Giblsa:
just watched the news and i see the portugese driver is still in custody,is this because he is not from this country or is there something more sinister like tacho’s,laptops or mobiles to investigate?
Its pretty much standard that to keep hold of him they have to arrest him, otherwise he would be free to leave the country and not return. He may be totally blameless, but if they ned to question him whilst investigating the accident, thats what they do.
Mike-C:
Giblsa:
just watched the news and i see the portugese driver is still in custody,is this because he is not from this country or is there something more sinister like tacho’s,laptops or mobiles to investigate?
Its pretty much standard that to keep hold of him they have to arrest him, otherwise he would be free to leave the country and not return. He may be totally blameless, but if they ned to question him whilst investigating the accident, thats what they do.
thanks for that mike, i thought that was the case but wasnt sure!!!
i know he is a foreigner but i hope it gets sorted sooner rather than later. its terrible for the families involved INCLUDING the family of the Portugese HGV driver still being held. how would you feel if it was your loved one in a foreign jail with no contact?
bikemonkey:
…nobody plans these things they just happen…
I agree - nobody plans to do these things but most don’t ‘just happen’ .
A sudden heart attack or other medical incident can just happen but something that could be prevented by one or more involved does not.
A word that is used by many is ‘suddenly’ - The car ‘suddenly’ braked so I hit it - for example - is a common one.
Very few things happen ‘suddenly’ - there is usually a clue that the driver missed seeing, did not plan for, or did not react to, early enough.
biggusdickusgb:
DABenji:
I think the rants about foreign drivers are justifiedInformation from the DFT website and from a survey by Liverpool Victoria shows that in 2006 there were just over 2000 accidents resulting in injury involving a HGV with 1366 of those being foreign lorries.
And 31% of foreign lorries failed a VOSA spotcheck in the past 5 years compared to 25% or British lorries.i prefer more up to date data
The UK government has begun its biggestever clamp down on unsafe lorries after a roadside campaign found 52% of vehicles targeted were operating illegally.
The Vehicle and Operator Services Agency (Vosa) carried out spot-checks as part of Operation Boston at 97 locations around the UK between 1 and 5 October.
The agency issued 1,889 prohibition notices, targeting operators that scored badly on its operator compliance risk score (OCRS) system that assesses the past record of transport operators.
Inspectors seized unsafe trucks and prevented drivers from continuing if they were found to be breaking working hours regulations.
Vosa CEO Stephen Tetlow said: “Our officers dealt with a staggering 3,628 vehicles and prevented a lot of accidents waiting to happen. The number of offences was unacceptable.”
Of the 3,628 vehicles stopped, 2,273 (63%) were foreign-registered and 1,206 were breaking the law. Out of the 1,355 UKregistered trucks, 683 were breaking the law.i’m no mathematician but i make that about 53% of foreigners breaking the law and 51% of uk registered, i’d say that means there’s very little difference between the two
Well ime not very good at maths but how many uk reg trucks are driven by foreigners?
A tragic accident for everyone concerened.
1 Point I would like to point out is, why or how on a nearly weekly basis is there or are there a fatal accident/s on this stretch of motorway (Between Knutsford and Keele both ways) ?.
This has happened for years on end, how come nothing has been done to try and stop these accidents occurring . like vairable speed restrictions, extra lane for volume of traffic etc. Like they have done round the M25.
I think the Highways agency have a lot to answer
Brian
bedgar047:
I think the Highways agency have a lot to answer
Brian
There we go! lets blame someone else!!
The blame lies fair & squarely with the poor standard of driving now-a-days, we all know of examples, we all see it every day. it’s no-one elses fault but the person behind the wheel.
A few observations,:…
Most really bad RTC’s on motorways happen on long straight parts, not the bendy bits. (the thoughts are because drivers are concentrating less)
Smaller, often multiple RTC’s happen around junctions. (probably due to poor lane changes)
When the weather turns bad from a dry spell, the great British Public play dodgems with their vehicles for a few days, before they get used to the new conditions.
The part of the M6 that this happened on, as already mentioned, very busy, it is one of the intended locations for “Hard shoulder running” similar to the M42 (■■) But you guys don’t like that either!
I am not blaming anyone,or passing the buck.
The Highways agency have a duty of care to us drivers
If as you say its the poor standard of driving then why arent the Police, Highways agency and Goverment doing anything about it !!!.
(To reduce these drastic & traumatic fatal crashes)
These accidents have occured for 20 year or more and nothing much has been done to the Motorway in that time.
Be all and end all is “Too many people, going to quick, not enough road”
Brian
Ski:
bikemonkey:
FFS,it was a tragic accident that happened BANG quick as a flash,nobody upto the final seconds of impact was aware of what was gonna happen it was just a normal Monday night…nobody plans these things they just happenAnd while attitudes like this exist, people will keep getting killed on our roads.
No, it was not a tragic ‘accident’.
No, these things don’t ‘just happen’.
I don’t give a fig whether the person to blame was pedestrian, cyclist, car, van or truck driver, or what their nationality happens to be.
The fact is there are too many idiots on the roads that think it’s fine to do all sorts of things while driving except actually concentrate on their driving.
While there are people like you happy to make excuses for these imbeciles, then nothing will change. People will keep getting killed.
I don’t post much on here - because I don’t want to be associated with comments like yours. I gave up driving for a living because I don’t want to be associated with the appalling standards that are far to prevalent in this industry today.
Now I’m not judging the cause of the particular accident that started this thread, the driver currently under arrest and according to tonight’s still being questioned is innocent until proven guilty in a court of law - but to say that these are accidents that just happen is just plain stupid.
I really ■■■■■■■ hate it when people like yourself misquote or mis-understand what I have said!!!
so what was it if it wasn’t a tragic accident??
and YES these things DO just happen…they happen on a daily basis the world over,since the beginning of time us humans are prone to making mistakes and mis-judgements…part of life im afraid,we’re not all perfect. 
The point I was making was the fact that the I DO NOTHING WRONG EVER lynch mob that frequent this site within hours were pointing the finger at a driver cause he was foreign stating possible causes like Laptops,flags and half drawn curtains OBVIOUSLY affecting this foreign driver thus causing him to kill 5/6 people…am I right??
maybe he is guilty and should be burnt as a witch…iif he’s not then burn him cause he’s foreign eh…or any other driver on the road who lapses concentration for a split second!!!
So before you start on the “people like you” rant…read my ■■■■■■■ post properly and digest it before pointing the finger.
might be worth not posting that often either 
The real Biffo:
bedgar047:
I think the Highways agency have a lot to answer
BrianThere we go! lets blame someone else!!
The blame lies fair & squarely with the poor standard of driving now-a-days, we all know of examples, we all see it every day. it’s no-one elses fault but the person behind the wheel.
A few observations,:…
Most really bad RTC’s on motorways happen on long straight parts, not the bendy bits. (the thoughts are because drivers are concentrating less)
Smaller, often multiple RTC’s happen around junctions. (probably due to poor lane changes)
When the weather turns bad from a dry spell, the great British Public play dodgems with their vehicles for a few days, before they get used to the new conditions.
The part of the M6 that this happened on, as already mentioned, very busy, it is one of the intended locations for “Hard shoulder running” similar to the M42 (■■) But you guys don’t like that either!
And here’s a few of my observations…
in the part of the M6 that is being discussed both the Police and the HA choose what bits of saftey they are concerned about. Knutsford services (where there seems to be an accident every month) has a particular problem with traffic using it as a junction. It creates uneccesary extra traffic close to the existing junction. I have spoken to the Police over the matter, they did not want to know and passed the buck to the HA. The HA who are responsible for it apparently seem toothless. In March this year…( a short abreviation from HA)…
In the case of Knutsford, I have written a third letter today, and as is convention, will allow the operator 3 weeks to respond to me. If necessary, I will then seek to take the matter further.
And how have they taken the matter further? Well it was a long three weeks because at the end of September i got this reply…
The costs to the operators of replacing these barriers is a major factor in some accesses not being properly controlled. As a result the Agency is meeting with all of the major service area operators in early October to try and agree how this issue can best be resolved.
Cost is a major factor in road safety now. Thats how seriously HA take the Governments own Policy that 'in the interests of safety extra traffic to and from the services ’ no extra traffic should be encouraged or allowed.
Now if the HA can;t get to grips with stuff they know about, how do you think they will get to grips with stuff thats being investigated, or they don’t know about?
Suedehead:
biggusdickusgb:
DABenji:
I think the rants about foreign drivers are justifiedInformation from the DFT website and from a survey by Liverpool Victoria shows that in 2006 there were just over 2000 accidents resulting in injury involving a HGV with 1366 of those being foreign lorries.
And 31% of foreign lorries failed a VOSA spotcheck in the past 5 years compared to 25% or British lorries.i prefer more up to date data
The UK government has begun its biggestever clamp down on unsafe lorries after a roadside campaign found 52% of vehicles targeted were operating illegally.
The Vehicle and Operator Services Agency (Vosa) carried out spot-checks as part of Operation Boston at 97 locations around the UK between 1 and 5 October.
The agency issued 1,889 prohibition notices, targeting operators that scored badly on its operator compliance risk score (OCRS) system that assesses the past record of transport operators.
Inspectors seized unsafe trucks and prevented drivers from continuing if they were found to be breaking working hours regulations.
Vosa CEO Stephen Tetlow said: “Our officers dealt with a staggering 3,628 vehicles and prevented a lot of accidents waiting to happen. The number of offences was unacceptable.”
Of the 3,628 vehicles stopped, 2,273 (63%) were foreign-registered and 1,206 were breaking the law. Out of the 1,355 UKregistered trucks, 683 were breaking the law.i’m no mathematician but i make that about 53% of foreigners breaking the law and 51% of uk registered, i’d say that means there’s very little difference between the two
Well ime not very good at maths but how many uk reg trucks are driven by foreigners?
i wouldn’t have a clue, but please enlighten me, what has that got to do with anything, uk registered means uk haulier
Drove past and over this very spot twice last night…
New section of tarmac laid and not much evidence of skid marks…
Drive that stretch quite often but last night it felt like a not very nice place to be…
It is such a shame
A person is regarded as innocent
until proven guilty by a judge & jury.
but it seems that many belive
in Lynch justice,
My thoughts are with
all those who have suffered
due to this accident,who ever you
are.
Just a couple of ob’s. The Police dont call an RTA an RTA anymore as the A for Accident is not right. Its an RTC as in Collision as there is always someone to blame. On the recent Motorway Cops show, a lorry driver killed a few people and in court he gave no explanation for slamming into stationary traffic. Is that an accident■■?, someone not looking ahead of them while driving?? Isnt that one of the main things they teach you on an LGV test■■?. I had “Look ahead as far as you can see, look at lamposts, signs, barrier position to see which way the road goes” on my car test, LGV 2 & 1 and my bike test and thats what I do.
Secondly about the HA having a duty of care, an old buddy of mine who left the HA said we should have 50’s set for spray. He said we had a duty of care to motorists. My reply, which is agreed within the HA now is if drivers cant see ahead and adjust there driving to reduced visability areas like spray then why is it our job to tell them. We all know what happens when 50’s are set, people go through at 80 until they see something maybe like stationary traffic. And of course if 50’s are on for spray, car drivers think there is nothing going on so continue at speed and 5 miles down the road im stood in lane 3 picking up a ladder. now if someone hits that ladder, rolls and dies is it the HA’s fault that a driver didnt secure his ladder, or the car drivers fault because he ignored the 50’s?? Is it an accident as someone is clearly to blame. It would be called a “Tragic Accident” and yet 2 people are to blame.
Lastly, we now set SLOW DOWN SPRAY on VMS. Guess what, Clarkson has said in his new book about “POINTLESS SIGNS SAYING SPRAY” The HA cant win.
My thoughts are with the family RIP
thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/ne … 845293.ece
Driver has now been charged.
Very sad case indeed.
its such a tragedy that a whole family was killed in this fashion. If I was the wagon driver involved, I couldn’t see myself ever climbing the steps into a truck ever again.