Got the fun of a CPC today. I know the rules state it’s fine but is it not a bit wrong that we can “voluntarily” sit these on rest days and they don’t count towards any working time or anything?
I know I need to sit them but is this another area where rules are fudged?
Yes
As long as you are not getting paid for it then crack on
msgyorkie:
Yes
Yes, another rule that has been judged to avoid us working less than 80 hours a week…
peirre:
As long as you are not getting paid for it then crack on
I’m not but its not the point, it’s the ruling surrounding it. So you can do it in your own time and it won’t count as its voluntary which is fair enough and would suit some such as owner drivers , self employed etc.
But what if like me you’ve been told it’s today (at 1pm yesterday 
) by your employer, thus ruining plans I had, with no option to move it? That’s hardly voluntary is it?
The worth of DCPC is another argument and one not for now, but is it right that you face penalties for breaching hours rules yet it’s OK to breach them for training?
I just believe that either it should count towards your hours calculations or should be mandated that it shouldn’t be undertaken during rest periods instead of this one foot in one foot out system we have now.
That’s a beef with your employer, we all have those, it’s nothing really to do with the rules of training.
I’d say you’re entitled to 24 hours notice of a change of plans, which you haven’t had.
Why did you not refuse if you already had plans?
“Driver CPC training can only be undertaken during rest periods if the driver is attending voluntarily and not at the request of the employer.”
gov.uk/guidance/drivers-hou … vers-hours
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If your boss has organised and paid for a course that you are free to attend or not, that is legal.
So long as there are no sanctions should you choose not to attend that is OK.
You having to pay for such a course later on yourself, is of course your voluntary choice.
.
Boss sounds a bit inconsiderate, but some don`t offer any courses at all.
I would suggest it needs to be clarified. My opinion, Work paying for it, even if not paying you to attend = work and should be manually entered on your card next working shift and appropriate rest taken. Paying yourself = you are doing it through your own initiative, therefore free to dispose of your time on a rest period and you chose a dcpc.
Problem is, like driver medicals and renewals, the onus has been put on the driver to make sure dcpc is up to date, so the firm feel like they are doing you a favour by providing you a course on your rest day.
I’m lucky, our lot pay for it and take us off the road for a shift to do it paid so goes on the card and we still get proper rest days.
I have been pondering doing ADR off my own back which would be done on a week off, but that is me choosing to do it for possible future advancement rather than a mandatory qualification.
toonsy:
The worth of DCPC is another argument and one not for now, but is it right that you face penalties for breaching hours rules yet it’s OK to breach them for training?
Work a night shift.
Spend an unpaid day on a DCPC course learning about drivers hours, and the dangers of fatigue.
Work a night shift.
.
.
You`re right: Insane, but legal.
I would also like to see any driver cpc session to be not counted as rest whether it be paid or not
After all it is a legal requirement
It will need a large organisation to put this to parliament
ROG:
I would also like to see any driver cpc session to be not counted as rest whether it be paid or not
After all it is a legal requirementIt will need a large organisation to put this to parliament
Anyone here got a phone number for the PM? 
ROG:
I would also like to see any driver cpc session to be not counted as rest whether it be paid or not
After all it is a legal requirementIt will need a large organisation to put this to parliament
RHA? Unlikely after all why would they be interested in the welfare of drivers and anyway they’re too busy banging on about the driver shortage, wonder if the two could be related 
Just another example like everything else in this ■■■■ job.
The rules must be obeyed but when it suits ‘‘Them’’ they can be conveniently relaxed.
Just use the word ‘voluntarily’ and everything’s fine, but in real terms who in their right minds is going to ‘volunteer’ to sit through 30+ hours of pure dog ■■■■ unpaid.
You do it because you HAVE to, end of.and if you get paid for it, it’s a bonus.
robroy:
Just another example like everything else in this [zb] job.
The rules must be obeyed but when it suits ‘‘Them’’ they can be conveniently relaxed.
Just use the word ‘voluntarily’ and everything’s fine, but in real terms who in their right minds is going to ‘volunteer’ to sit through 30+ hours of pure dog [zb] unpaid.
You do it because you HAVE to, end of.and if you get paid for it, it’s a bonus.
I have always paid my drivers to attend a DCPC course, they get 21 hrs via the ADR renewal and I pay them 2 x 8hr shifts required to make up the 35 hrs, held on a Saturday so they get time and a half, I know I’m not giving them the world but I think it is only right.
The cost of this to me works out at £4.80 per month per driver in overtime for the 2 modules over the 5 years, hardly the end of the world is it?
Franglais:
Anyone here got a phone number for the PM?
I haven’t, but my mate Jimmy has, apparently they text each other all the time. He’s working out in the Far East at the mo but I’ll get him to text you it when he returns 
toonsy:
peirre:
As long as you are not getting paid for it then crack onI’m not but its not the point, it’s the ruling surrounding it. So you can do it in your own time and it won’t count as its voluntary which is fair enough and would suit some such as owner drivers , self employed etc.
But what if like me you’ve been told it’s today (at 1pm yesterday
The worth of DCPC is another argument and one not for now, but is it right that you face penalties for breaching hours rules yet it’s OK to breach them for training?
I just believe that either it should count towards your hours calculations or should be mandated that it shouldn’t be undertaken during rest periods instead of this one foot in one foot out system we have now.
Ok I’ll phrase it another way, if you where a staff/core driver and your employer has arranged for you to attend the course and is or isn’t paying you for the hours while you are in the classroom, then it counts as WTD.
If you are a limper like me, and you are paying for the session out of your own pocket and not receiving any pay for it. Then it doesn’t count as WTD
Zac_A:
Why did you not refuse if you already had plans?
When I did mine it was while I was on furlough, sat at home twiddling my thumbs, but paying for it myself and doing it via zoom
pete smith:
[I have always paid my drivers to attend a DCPC course, they get 21 hrs via the ADR renewal
No DCPC for Tanks?
Zac_A:
pete smith:
[I have always paid my drivers to attend a DCPC course, they get 21 hrs via the ADR renewal
No DCPC for Tanks?
That is regarding the packaged waste lads only, the lads on the tanks get paid as well but obviously only sit 1 module.
toonsy:
I know I need to sit them but is this another area where rules are fudged?
Yep - volunteer is when you do it off your own bat without instruction to do so from your employer. As mentioned it applies if self employed / agency but not fulltime.
1pm yesterday notification “you’ve got CPC” is a “err no, I got plans, get lost”. Theres flexibility and then there’s taking the pee especially when you don’t work Saturday normally.
Personally I took a week off, did ADR 4 days and although I paid myself it gives me something extra I can take between jobs and my 4x CPC. Especially better if you worked nights.
As for Pete, you’re going to be the new Albion, aka decent employer! Unfortunately most companies don’t look at it individually, but how much it costs across the company. Btw, are you sure its not cheaper to do 4x ADR?
Our lot do it on Friday mostly.I am.taken off the road and get paid my 8hours .Some places make you pay for it