COVID (again) / make sense of it [Merged]

UK PROFESSIONAL DRIVERS FORUMS THE UK PROFESSIONAL DRIVERS FORUM (INTERACTIVE)
21

Juddian:
Have another view of the current situation, here’s Peter Hitchen’s tuppenceworth.

hitchensblog.mailonsunday.co.uk/

And yes i agree with President Trump, if we are not careful the cure will be worse than the disease.

It is possible I agree, to over=react to this.
To shut all factories and ban all movement would kill more from other causes than it saved from COVID 19. To shut down the economy too hard, will cause more ever under funding of the NHS and worse outcomes for many.
All true.
.
But I see Trump wanting to risk lives to get a quick boost to the US economy, and to his election chances.
The poorer under insured US workers, will pay the price for any share price buoyancy, buying him votes.
.
Im not saying because I dislike the man. Im saying that because the man is a prize ****, and that is why I dislike him.

22

Franglais:

Juddian:
Have another view of the current situation, here’s Peter Hitchen’s tuppenceworth.

hitchensblog.mailonsunday.co.uk/

And yes i agree with President Trump, if we are not careful the cure will be worse than the disease.

It is possible I agree, to over=react to this.
To shut all factories and ban all movement would kill more from other causes than it saved from COVID 19. To shut down the economy too hard, will cause more ever under funding of the NHS and worse outcomes for many.
All true.
.
But I see Trump wanting to risk lives to get a quick boost to the US economy, and to his election chances.
The poorer under insured US workers, will pay the price for any share price buoyancy, buying him votes.
.
Im not saying because I dislike the man. Im saying that because the man is a prize ****, and that is why I dislike him.

Agree with your assessment of Trump, however he can get results and has firmly put GM in their place over the making of ventilators, as soon they saw it as opportunity to make a tidy sum he brought in wartime legislation to get the job done, GM’s memory is very short they would have gone under at the last recession if the US government hadn’t bailed them out, yet saw fit to haggle over contracts in a time of national emergency

23

.
Im not saying because I dislike the man. Im saying that because the man is a prize ****, and that is why I dislike him.
[/quote]
Agree with your assessment of Trump, however he can get results and has firmly put GM in their place over the making of ventilators, as soon they saw it as opportunity to make a tidy sum he brought in wartime legislation to get the job done, GM’s memory is very short they would have gone under at the last recession if the US government hadn’t bailed them out, yet saw fit to haggle over contracts in a time of national emergency
[/quote]
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
+1
he might be a ginger and have the worlds worst comb over in history but i love trump almost as much as any american bricklayer across the mexican border for being a guy who just gets on with it and dont give a monkeys who disagrees.

24

Juddian:
Have another view of the current situation, here’s Peter Hitchen’s tuppenceworth.

hitchensblog.mailonsunday.co.uk/

And yes i agree with President Trump, if we are not careful the cure will be worse than the disease.

The made-up exaggerations will end up doing rather more harm than the true bits as well, I suspect… :frowning:

“Big lies difficult to disprove mixed with easily-provable small truths” - has always been the most toxic blend of all.

25

Franglais:
.
But I see Trump wanting to risk lives to get a quick boost to the US economy, and to his election chances.
The poorer under insured US workers, will pay the price for any share price buoyancy, buying him votes.
.

Trump is not a politician, or a statesman. He’s a business man. Money talks.

26

Mazzer2:

Franglais:

Juddian:
Have another view of the current situation, here’s Peter Hitchen’s tuppenceworth.

hitchensblog.mailonsunday.co.uk/

And yes i agree with President Trump, if we are not careful the cure will be worse than the disease.

It is possible I agree, to over=react to this.
To shut all factories and ban all movement would kill more from other causes than it saved from COVID 19. To shut down the economy too hard, will cause more ever under funding of the NHS and worse outcomes for many.
All true.
.
But I see Trump wanting to risk lives to get a quick boost to the US economy, and to his election chances.
The poorer under insured US workers, will pay the price for any share price buoyancy, buying him votes.
.
Im not saying because I dislike the man. Im saying that because the man is a prize ****, and that is why I dislike him.

Agree with your assessment of Trump, however he can get results and has firmly put GM in their place over the making of ventilators, as soon they saw it as opportunity to make a tidy sum he brought in wartime legislation to get the job done, GM’s memory is very short they would have gone under at the last recession if the US government hadn’t bailed them out, yet saw fit to haggle over contracts in a time of national emergency

h
Hmm? BBC R4 Monday evening news:
bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m000gkw0
From about 13-30
They were saying then that he was resisting calls to stop profiteering.

27

Franglais:

Mazzer2:

Franglais:

Juddian:
Have another view of the current situation, here’s Peter Hitchen’s tuppenceworth.

hitchensblog.mailonsunday.co.uk/

And yes i agree with President Trump, if we are not careful the cure will be worse than the disease.

It is possible I agree, to over=react to this.
To shut all factories and ban all movement would kill more from other causes than it saved from COVID 19. To shut down the economy too hard, will cause more ever under funding of the NHS and worse outcomes for many.
All true.
.
But I see Trump wanting to risk lives to get a quick boost to the US economy, and to his election chances.
The poorer under insured US workers, will pay the price for any share price buoyancy, buying him votes.
.
Im not saying because I dislike the man. Im saying that because the man is a prize ****, and that is why I dislike him.

Agree with your assessment of Trump, however he can get results and has firmly put GM in their place over the making of ventilators, as soon they saw it as opportunity to make a tidy sum he brought in wartime legislation to get the job done, GM’s memory is very short they would have gone under at the last recession if the US government hadn’t bailed them out, yet saw fit to haggle over contracts in a time of national emergency

h
Hmm? BBC R4 Monday evening news:
bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m000gkw0
From about 13-30
They were saying then that he was resisting calls to stop profiteering.

TBH I take whatever the BBC says about Trump with a pinch of salt they spend far to much attacking him over things that are of no relevance to the UK

28

Mazzer2:
TBH I take whatever the BBC says about Trump with a pinch of salt they spend far to much attacking him over things that are of no relevance to the UK

edition.cnn.com/2020/03/27/poli … index.html

washingtonpost.com/gdpr-con … ion-act%2f

And
businessinsider.fr/us/trump … rus-2020-3
not a noted den of lefties!

29

There are plenty of people that call themselves “Liberals” that are rather more Leftie than those calling themselves “Communist” right now.

For instance, my Left leanings make me in favour of a kind of “Guild” system for our tradespeople that can actually do stuff and make things. Best prices paid.
What do we have though?
A system where money rolls UPhill, making these Liberal Elites exremely well paid for keeping both the Workers and Business owners to heel.
They hate the mainstream workforce - as much as they hate Trump.

Indeed, “Socialism” ended up failing - becauise it was corrupted into something less palatable BY these Liberal Elites.
“Capitalism” too, - morphed into an unnacceptable face under their guidance.
To use the words of the Song:

"Cities full of hatred, fear, and lies…
…Withered Hearts and Cruel tormented Eyes
…Scheming Demons dressed in Kingly Guise
Beating down the multitude and Scoffing at the Wise."

PROPER Socialism - would have had the Wealthy Elites putting in the MOST
PROPER Capitalism - would have permitted those with the most to go totally broke during a crash.

Instead? - We get the exact opposite actually happening to preserve those who call themselves “Centerists”.

I don’t believe in concepts such as “Blue Labour” or “Red Conservatism” btw.

If I had my way, Mike Ashley would be oredered to pay his staff the new living wage of £15ph, with all ZHC being an automatic £5ph premium on Full time rates. JAIL for not complying.
Richard Branson - NOT bailed out, and allowed to become as broke as he came into the world as being.
NHS Medical staff - getting no limit of funding.
NHS NON Medical staff - replaced by Hourly-paid-per-job rather than Salaried, for just turning up “work”.
Any private company asking for a bail-out, gets taken over by the government for £1 in exchange for covering that firms debts, keeping the company going, and sacking the entire current board.

“Golden Handshakes” - taxed at a new premium higher rate of tax - 90%
VAT Abolished.
Tax Offsetting - Rendered Illegal. Accountants recession forthcoming…

“Ltd Company” abolished, and replaced with “Lloyds Name” style Unlimited Liability firms. If you want a shot at the big bucks - then bloody well take the big risks that other gamblers have to routinely take… :imp:

30

Winseer:
There are plenty of people that call themselves “Liberals” that are rather more Leftie than those calling themselves “Communist” right now.

For instance, my Left leanings make me in favour of a kind of “Guild” system for our tradespeople that can actually do stuff and make things. Best prices paid.
What do we have though?
A system where money rolls UPhill, making these Liberal Elites exremely well paid for keeping both the Workers and Business owners to heel.
They hate the mainstream workforce - as much as they hate Trump.

Indeed, “Socialism” ended up failing - becauise it was corrupted into something less palatable BY these Liberal Elites.
“Capitalism” too, - morphed into an unnacceptable face under their guidance.
To use the words of the Song:

"Cities full of hatred, fear, and lies…
…Withered Hearts and Cruel tormented Eyes
…Scheming Demons dressed in Kingly Guise
Beating down the multitude and Scoffing at the Wise."

PROPER Socialism - would have had the Wealthy Elites putting in the MOST
PROPER Capitalism - would have permitted those with the most to go totally broke during a crash.

Instead? - We get the exact opposite actually happening to preserve those who call themselves “Centerists”.

I don’t believe in concepts such as “Blue Labour” or “Red Conservatism” btw.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

If I had my way, Mike Ashley would be oredered to pay his staff the new living wage of £15ph, with all ZHC being an automatic £5ph premium on Full time rates. JAIL for not complying.
Richard Branson - NOT bailed out, and allowed to become as broke as he came into the world as being.
NHS Medical staff - getting no limit of funding.
NHS NON Medical staff - replaced by Hourly-paid-per-job rather than Salaried, for just turning up “work”.
Any private company asking for a bail-out, gets taken over by the government for £1 in exchange for covering that firms debts, keeping the company going, and sacking the entire current board.

“Golden Handshakes” - taxed at a new premium higher rate of tax - 90%
VAT Abolished.
Tax Offsetting - Rendered Illegal. Accountants recession forthcoming…

“Ltd Company” abolished, and replaced with “Lloyds Name” style Unlimited Liability firms. If you want a shot at the big bucks - then bloody well take the big risks that other gamblers have to routinely take… :imp:

Winseer, you political comments do get on my nerves mostly and I get bored after the 1st paragraph

But I have to agree with your post under the dotted line that I have inserted

31

Winseer:
Indeed, “Socialism” ended up failing

I don’t believe in concepts such as “Blue Labour” or “Red Conservatism” btw.

Richard Branson - NOT bailed out,
NHS Medical staff - getting no limit of funding.

Any private company asking for a bail-out, gets taken over by the government for £1 in exchange for covering that firms debts, keeping the company going, and sacking the entire current board.]]

My View on “Winseer’s” Quote.
Ah Politics the great divider.
So lets look at just some of your points.
1, Yes Socialism has failed again and again. Its failed in every country that tried the experiment. Unless the people are shackled by a one party socialist Government and given no choice.
2, To get the facts correct. It would not actually be Richard Branson who would be bailed out, but the many thousands who’s jobs depend on the Virgin name to be employed.
3, Yes we all agree that the NHS should get all the money that they need. But that falls down when us the very people who need it are not prepared to pay extra Tax to fund it.
4, So again you are implying that all private companies should be Nationalised. Been their done that, and that experiment failed simply because once you take away the need to show or make a profit, then Nationalised companies plod along costing everybody else a massive tax hike just to keep those in employment. Best evidence of that just take a peek at Socialist run Venezuela. Massive oil reserves and prior to the hardline socialist Government a country that although never at the top at least people had jobs and a living. Now nothing whole country Nationalised and totally bankrupt, exactly the same way as Cuba ended up after a Communist take over…
5, The fact is we need people to take a gamble and become entrepreneur’s and give people jobs that are sustainable. And yes we could all argue for more money, but then others could quite rightly say, well mate if you want more then start your company… And do not depend on others to give you a job the choice is yours.

32

Jocoh:

Winseer:
Indeed, “Socialism” ended up failing

I don’t believe in concepts such as “Blue Labour” or “Red Conservatism” btw.

Richard Branson - NOT bailed out,
NHS Medical staff - getting no limit of funding.

Any private company asking for a bail-out, gets taken over by the government for £1 in exchange for covering that firms debts, keeping the company going, and sacking the entire current board.]]

My View on “Winseer’s” Quote.
Ah Politics the great divider.
So lets look at just some of your points.
1, Yes Socialism has failed again and again. Its failed in every country that tried the experiment. Unless the people are shackled by a one party socialist Government and given no choice.
2, To get the facts correct. It would not actually be Richard Branson who would be bailed out, but the many thousands who’s jobs depend on the Virgin name to be employed.
3, Yes we all agree that the NHS should get all the money that they need. But that falls down when us the very people who need it are not prepared to pay extra Tax to fund it.
4, So again you are implying that all private companies should be Nationalised. Been their done that, and that experiment failed simply because once you take away the need to show or make a profit, then Nationalised companies plod along costing everybody else a massive tax hike just to keep those in employment. Best evidence of that just take a peek at Socialist run Venezuela. Massive oil reserves and prior to the hardline socialist Government a country that although never at the top at least people had jobs and a living. Now nothing whole country Nationalised and totally bankrupt, exactly the same way as Cuba ended up after a Communist take over…
5, The fact is we need people to take a gamble and become entrepreneur’s and give people jobs that are sustainable. And yes we could all argue for more money, but then others could quite rightly say, well mate if you want more then start your company… And do not depend on others to give you a job the choice is yours.

Great reply just about says it all.

33

Lets not forget the first 3 doctors to die protecting British people from COVID 19

Thank You Brothers

Amged el-Hawrani
Adel el-Tayar
Habib Zaidi

Heroes All 3 - thoughts go out to all the rest still working to look after all of us

34

Jocoh:

Winseer:
Indeed, “Socialism” ended up failing

I don’t believe in concepts such as “Blue Labour” or “Red Conservatism” btw.

Richard Branson - NOT bailed out,
NHS Medical staff - getting no limit of funding.

Any private company asking for a bail-out, gets taken over by the government for £1 in exchange for covering that firms debts, keeping the company going, and sacking the entire current board.]]

My View on “Winseer’s” Quote.
Ah Politics the great divider.
So lets look at just some of your points.
1, Yes Socialism has failed again and again. Its failed in every country that tried the experiment. Unless the people are shackled by a one party socialist Government and given no choice.
It would seem that what our current Tory chancellor is embarking on right now - is rather “Proper Socialist” to me. All that money without a sniff of extra tax hikes to pay for it.
2, To get the facts correct. It would not actually be Richard Branson who would be bailed out, but the many thousands who’s jobs depend on the Virgin name to be employed.
Branson has already laid a huge number of staff off. I challenge ANYONE told to “go on holiday indefintely for zero pay” to not be looking to resign and work elsewhere at the earliest opportunity… He just didn’t want to pay out for redundancies - tight fisted git! NO bailout for VA - it would be a public scandal!
3, Yes we all agree that the NHS should get all the money that they need. But that falls down when us the very people who need it are not prepared to pay extra Tax to fund it.
There’s no rule that “Taxes must be raised” to pay for ANYTHING. That is what broke proper socialism - this bolted-on thing about “Must have tax rises…” I don’t vote Labour because of that.
4, So again you are implying that all private companies should be Nationalised. Been their done that, and that experiment failed simply because once you take away the need to show or make a profit, then Nationalised companies plod along costing everybody else a massive tax hike just to keep those in employment. Best evidence of that just take a peek at Socialist run Venezuela. Massive oil reserves and prior to the hardline socialist Government a country that although never at the top at least people had jobs and a living. Now nothing whole country Nationalised and totally bankrupt, exactly the same way as Cuba ended up after a Communist take over… Only companies that say they are skint, and about to fail - should be nationalized. Better not LIE about being “Skint” then eh? - All nationalizations should be done for a quid - that way you stop these shysters holding out their begging bowl when they did everything they could as private companies to avoid tax, avoid doing their public duty, and avoid laying off staff the moment they get into a spot of “force majeur” bother.
5, The fact is we need people to take a gamble and become entrepreneur’s and give people jobs that are sustainable. And yes we could all argue for more money, but then others could quite rightly say, well mate if you want more then start your company… And do not depend on others to give you a job the choice is yours.

On THIS - we are on the same page.

If Boris’ government pulls off this notion of “Proper Socialism” - there won’t be a need ever again for Labour’s “Tax and Spend” version of socialism, that has proved them unelectable time and time again.
Blair - barely got away with it, deciding that “everyone hating the Tories” in the 1997 election - would not be enough alone to win a labour majority. He dropped “Clause 4” which would have looted privatization shares from those members of the public that still held them. Of course, he didn’t say anything then about going to war in Iraq, turning this country into a “Surveillance Big Brother” Society, nor letting the chancellor flog gold at the bottom of the market, nor raid everyone’s pension funds in ways that people won’t wake upto for another five years at least yet…

A proper socialist government - uses Fiat money to get things done, built, and implemented… If the value of that money later drops in response, then that is fine since the value OF those assets thus created - is a whole lot more as measured in the old money. The Conservatives doing this in the mid-1980’s - was likely the thing that pulled this country out of that long recession that followed the Winter of Discontent.
Fiat money deliberate inflation - can be done until inflation actually kicks in. There is a golden opportunity in this deflationary spiral we now find ourselves in - to print money like it is going out of fashion. SAVERS end up losing out, mainly old Tory voters, whereas DEBTORS see their debts destroyed by the inflation eventually created to follow…
Just borrow very cheaply now, buy those assets that won’t fall rather than rise in value - and then just wait.

Meanwhile, - I’m still awaiting the “Helicopter Money” we were promised…

At present, this £300billion handout being spoke of - there’s no guarantee that the general public will get ANY of it.

Let’s see Branson get kicked into touch - to give the rest of the public the confidence to realize that these particular “crumbs” - are coming OUR way for a welcome change!

35

HaHaHaHaHa. Thats what I love about freedom of speech, You can give an opinion and I do appreciate you giving yours even though I would have to disagree with your take on it.
We are all part of this world and the various economic undertakings that different counties partake in. The truth is we do have to go along with the crowd so to speak, even if we do not like it. That is the way of the world, and whatever or whoever are running your counties economy then it will always be the top few who get the biggest gain. Always has been and its not about to change.
I am no lover of socialism in fact I despise the whole Socialist mantra because it cannot work. The human is by nature to greedy for it to be workable. As we all want just a bit more than our Neighbour has.

36

Juddian:
Have another view of the current situation, here’s Peter Hitchen’s tuppenceworth.

hitchensblog.mailonsunday.co.uk/

And yes i agree with President Trump, if we are not careful the cure will be worse than the disease.

And if you like to try “More Or Less” on BBC Sounds, today’s edition has Tim Harford looking at Hitchens column.
.
Any who have a “delicate” grasp of English words, or the concepts of conditionality, are invited to exempt themselves.
Thank you.

37

dieseldog999:
.
Im not saying because I dislike the man. Im saying that because the man is a prize ****, and that is why I dislike him.

Agree with your assessment of Trump, however he can get results and has firmly put GM in their place over the making of ventilators, as soon they saw it as opportunity to make a tidy sum he brought in wartime legislation to get the job done, GM’s memory is very short they would have gone under at the last recession if the US government hadn’t bailed them out, yet saw fit to haggle over contracts in a time of national emergency
[/quote]
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
+1
he might be a ginger and have the worlds worst comb over in history but i love trump almost as much as any american bricklayer across the mexican border for being a guy who just gets on with it and dont give a monkeys who disagrees.
[/quote]
Bricklayer’s saviour?
A whole 3 miles of new wall was built by Trump as of Dec 2019…
And I think that was a steel fence.

38

China reported an 48 new cases, and that’s just the ones they’re reporting, interesting article in today’s Times saying China should foot the bill for the damage they have caused through their mis information and lies.

39

Mazzer2:
China reported an 48 new cases, and that’s just the ones they’re reporting, interesting article in today’s Times saying China should foot the bill for the damage they have caused through their mis information and lies.

Once again, the irony…
Even serious situations can give us all a laugh.
The image of Boris Johnson calling someone out for lies and mis-information!

40

.